English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

12:00 PM

Me gotta see if bagels are here yet. AFK.

RegDwight

1

Q: How do you say that you're 'high' (from smoking marijuana) in German?

How do you say that you're 'high' (from smoking marijuana) in German? Is the expression limited to marijuana or is it used in other instances as well? Also if there is a term for people who smoke a lot of weed, that'd be interesting to know. Thanks!

translation

Kit

Ok, what's AFK?

@RegDwight Oh, that's classy.

RegDwight

Away from keyboard.

Third Idiot

@Robusto Take that!

Kit

@ThirdIdiot First thing I noticed is that her tits at at her knees.

RegDwight

12:01 PM

Mkay. Now let's talk about palatalization or something.

Kit

@RegDwight Ok, what's that?

@RegDwight You know, I tried talking about donuts. Who doesn't like donuts?

RegDwight

7

A: What rules of the English language allow the first t in patient to make a sh sound?

The reason something pronounced [ʃ] ("sh") would ever get the spelling "ti" is because of palatalization. Basically, the "io" diphthong contains a palatal consonant [j] ("y" sound), which, in certain cases, pulls the place of articulation of other consonants towards it (e.g. t->ʃ). The palataliz...

4

A: Pronunciation of voiceless alveolar fricative /s/ as ʃ (/sh/) in slang?

I do this. It is called palatalization and is caused by the "tr" combo more than anything. The same process also occurs without "s", and with "dr". I often say, for example, "tree" as [tʃri] ("chree") and "drier" as [dʒrajɚ] ("jrier"). These variants don't come from Yiddish, German, or any ot...

Palatalization

In linguistics, palatalization (), also palatization, refers to two separate processes. In phonetics, a palatalized consonant is one pronounced with a palatal secondary articulation, indicated in IPA by a superscript ‹j›: (e.g. . A vowel that has become fronter or closer may be called a palatalized vowel, but this does not refer to a secondary articulation as it does with consonants. In historical linguistics, it is a sound change in which a consonant becomes pronounced closer to the palatal place of articulation, usually considered a "softening" effect like that of hard and soft c. ...

Third Idiot

I can now create tag synonyms

Kit

@RegDwight I asked you to explain it, not @Kosmonaut, not @wikipedia.

Third Idiot

Doing it for my tag

Kit

12:03 PM

@RegDwight But thanks.

RegDwight

@Kit I can't explain it any better. I would if I could.

Besides, I am biased because I palatalize way too much stuff.

Kit

I mean, you could have just mentioned "voiceless alveolar fricative."

I know how to retroflex.

Third Idiot

Can someone please tell me how to review a post?

RegDwight

Palatalization has nothing to do with the voiceless alveolar fricative.

Third Idiot

What is reviewing for?

RegDwight

12:05 PM

Mar 31 at 13:47, by RegDwight

@JSBangs Re: palatalization, in Russian schools, щ is presented as a palatalized version of ш. So you have м — мь, т — ть, г — гь, and so on and so forth, but there is no ш — шь; instead, there's ш — щ.

Kit

@RegDwight No, but then I'd have been in the ballpark.

RegDwight

Apr 5 at 15:36, by RegDwight

@Cerberus Russian has lots of palatalization. The spelling reflects that. That's why you have two letters for each vowel and those crazy ь and ъ.

Kit

@ThirdIdiot Click the review button.

Third Idiot

@Kit Everytime I click the review button, I get a list of reviewed answers.

Actually depends what review button you are talking about.

Kit

@ThirdIdiot Answers that might need to be reviewed.

RegDwight

12:07 PM

Those are not reviewed. Those are proposed for review.

So if you see something bad or fishy there, fix it or flag it.

Third Idiot

@RegDwight Ahhhhh! I understand! See ya fullas, I've bot to sleep.

Kit

@ThirdIdiot Ciao.

RegDwight

Kakao.

Kit

@RegDwight That reminds me, Reg. What about new users who don't have the rep to comment anywhere, and have essentially posted a comment as an answer?

Or should I look on meta before I ask you?

RegDwight

Flag it. I'll convert it.

If it has a nugget of wisdom in it, that is.

Otherwise I'll just kill it with fire.

Kit

12:09 PM

@RegDwight Why fire?

Robusto

Reg, are you the big dawg on German.SE yet?

Kit

@RegDwight Why not, say nuke it?

RegDwight

Mar 11 at 15:29, by RegDwight

May 1 at 21:42, by Robusto

@Robusto Not really. I'm mostly doing janitorial work. Editing, retagging.

I only have like five answers so far.

Robusto

You are a mod there?

hippietrail

chal chinaesseoyo?

RegDwight

12:11 PM

@Robusto No.

Though in chat, I am.

And that's where I hang out a lot, too.

Robusto

So you just like janitorial work.

RegDwight

@Robusto No. But I feel like they need some help. Lots of it.

It's a very different crowd.

Mainly programmers, from the looks of it.

So they format everything as code.

Robusto

@RegDwight — Well, if they ever need bad jokes, I can assist in that. But I'm not doing any scut work.

RegDwight

And the tags would be a complete mess if not for my efforts.

Kit

@RegDwight I started that way here too, until I figured out how to do the other.

RegDwight

12:13 PM

2

Q: Was ist eine angemessene Übersetzung für "shitstorm"?

Was ist eine angemessene Übersetzung für "shitstorm"? Gibt es dafür ein deutsches Wort?

translation nouns single-word-request

Robusto

@RegDwight — Have a pity hug. [Pity Hug]

Kit

@RegDwight Classy.

@RegDwight purr purr

Robusto

@RegDwight — Wie heißt ZOMG auf Deutsch?

RegDwight

Probably ZOMG.

Kit

@Robusto Zombies, oh mein Gott!

RegDwight

12:14 PM

O mein Gott.

No wait. Actually, no.

German kezboard.

Thus, YOMG!

Kit

@RegDwight If you believe that origin...

Robusto

I'm going to start asking yodeling questions in German.SE.

Kit

@Robusto And I'll ask questions about dirty lederhosen that I've translated from bad English using Babelfish!

RegDwight

@Robusto Yeah, there's a shortage of those.

@Kit You wouldn't be original. That's like every second question on German already.

Kit

@RegDwight Claudia Schiffer?

Robusto

12:17 PM

Nah. I'm not gonna get involved with the Krauts. I have to leave you at least one site where I don't kick your ass.

RegDwight

@Kit Sure, if Claudia Schiffer is a translation from bad English using Babelfish, then yes.

@Robusto There aren't that many krauts there. Mainly just Pekka.

Kit

@RegDwight Claudia Schiffer in my dirty lederhosen?

RegDwight

The rest is... well, not krauts.

You are welcome to lurk in their chat to see what I mean.

Robusto

@RegDwight — Are Austrians scorned and shunned?

RegDwight

Your German is way better than that of some of the people there.

deutschsprachiger Raum

General discussion for german.stackexchange.com. You may speak...

Robusto

12:19 PM

@RegDwight — Must be truly lame then.

RegDwight

Well, I'm waiting for the public beta.

Besides, look at ELU. Look at the top 50 people by rep. Barely any native speakers in there.

So that's not a bad thing in and of itself. (Of course I would say that.)

Robusto

Yeah, we get mostly posers and wannabes here. By which I mean pineapples.

RegDwight

We need a new word. Pineapples is getting too transparent.

People are starting to understand what we're talking about.

Can't allow comprehension to happen.

Not in this room, anyway.

Robusto

But we can't create the word in plain view. That would be self-defeating.

Kit

@Robusto I'm a pineapple. claps hands Whee!

Robusto

12:25 PM

@Kit — From what country? Hawaii doesn't count.

Kit

@Robusto Hawai'i is not a country, no matter what the birthers say.

@Robusto Chilean pineapple.

@Robusto Definitely. Slopes of the Andes.

@Robusto No, wait. Peru. Peruvian pineapple, slopes of the Andes, near Machu Picchu.

Robusto

Stop @mentioning me. I'm trying to tease people in other chats. Well, if you count @RegDwight as people.

RegDwight

I am a Turing-incomplete pineapple.

2

Kit

@Robusto Oh sorry.

@Robusto Is that bothering you?

giggles

@RegDwight Wait, are you affiliated with Knight Industries?

RegDwight

@Kit Only via you.

The six degrees of Kit.

Robusto

12:43 PM

We are losing @RegDwight to the Krauts. Well, he was never really here anyway.

RegDwight

You're not losing me, honey.

Apr 29 at 20:59, by Kosmonaut

Oh great, EL&U taught you to use "honey" inappropriately

I know where my roots are.

Those krauts can't teach me to use Honig wrong.

Robusto

Yeah, but Liebchen doesn't necessarily taste good on toast.

Kit

@Robusto Speak for yourself.

RegDwight

Genau!

Robusto

I am. I taste terrible on toast. But I am a sweetie nonetheless.

RegDwight

12:45 PM

Der erste, der fand ein Liebchen,
Die Schwieger kauft’ Hof und Haus;
Der wiegte gar bald ein Bübchen,
Und sah aus heimlichem Stübchen
Behaglich ins Feld hinaus.

Die zwei Gesellen

Das Gedicht Die zwei Gesellen wurde im Jahr 1818 von Joseph von Eichendorff verfasst. Es wird teilweise auch unter dem Titel „Frühlingsfahrt“ geführt und ist unter diesem Namen 1840 von Robert Schumann vertont worden (op. 45 no. 2 in „Romanzen und Balladen“). Text Die zwei Gesellen Es zogen zwei rüst’ge Gesellen Zum erstenmal von Haus, So jubelnd recht in die hellen, Klingenden, singenden Wellen Des vollen Frühlings hinaus. Die strebten nach hohen Dingen, Die wollten, trotz Lust und Schmerz, Was Rechts in der Welt vollbringen, Und wem sie vorübergingen, Dem lachten Sinnen und Herz. ...

Robusto

That's where Schumann got his "Spring" symphony?

RegDwight

Apparently.

Robusto

Wow.

RegDwight

I had to review/critique/write an Aufsatz about this poem in school. I chickened out and went with Goethe instead.

Got me volle Punktzahl.

Robusto

Hahaha.

It's interesting, I can read German so much better than I can speak it now.

hippietrail

12:48 PM

i missed out on the german beta because i kept switching my commitments around

RegDwight

But everyone who wrote about Die zwei Gesellen got in a useless discussion with the teacher, who just wouldn't agree with any view other than hers.

@hippietrail Well, again, everybody's welcome to ~~terrorize~~ visit their chat.

Vitaly

Can I convert all my SE accounts to SE OpenID?

Robusto

@RegDwight — I hate that kind of teacher. That is an anti-teacher.

Vitaly

Leaving no trace of my Google OpenID whatsoever

RegDwight

@Robusto Nah, she was a very fine teacher, and she did have a point. That's not what I'm getting at here.

Robusto

12:50 PM

@Vitaly — Is there a problem with Google OpenID I should know about?

Vitaly

@Robusto No, it's my personal problem with public identity

RegDwight

My point (and that of my classmates) was, had I reviewed Die zwei Gesellen, she would have agreed with anything I would've written.

hippietrail

i can be terrible when i try

Robusto

@Vitaly — So a person can be vain and reclusive all at the same time? Interesting.

Really? Someone flagged me for that?

Flagging for slagging. It's come to this.

In EL&U chat, no less, which is nothing but slagging.

RegDwight

I think this is a gentle reminder that I should not leave the chat for a split second.

Robusto

12:55 PM

Yeah. I blame @RegDwight.

Well that chilled this chat out but good.

z7sg

I joined the German Beta to try and escape the tyranny of @RegDwight but lo! he is everywhere.

Robusto

Except when you need him.

z7sg

ZOMG oh no i done wrote 'try and'

Robusto

Mar 21 at 16:16, by Robusto

@JSBangs — He sees every sparrow that falls.

z7sg

Hope Vitaly doesn't see it.

@Robusto word

Kit

1:08 PM

Billaire's been saving up.

hippietrail

I'm hanging out for the Travel, Languages, and Japanese SEs to start

Billare

@RegDwight How do we talk in separate room?

Kit

@Billare How did you get all those questions in so fast?

Billare

What do you mean?

I typed them all up in a separate processor, copy and pasted them, and had to answer some CAPTCHAs to pass through.

RegDwight

@Robusto Sorry, Freitagsbesprechung.

Robusto

1:17 PM

Schade.

Kit

@Billare Oh, Copy-Paste. Of course.

RegDwight

@Billare Um. you go create one? I've never done that myself, actually.

Mr. Disappointment

1

Q: Why "animal sounds" are different in different languages?

Animal sounds are different in different languages. For example Bee sound is "viz viz" in one language and "zzzzz" in another language and "zum zum" somewhere else. Why animal sounds are different? Do animals make different sounds related to languages?!

differences

'Do animals make different sounds related to languages?!' ...Um, I'm not even sure how that should be interpreted.

Billare

Whatever, I'll just say it

I'm very concerned that many of a certain user's answer are very low quality.

They just answer without even making sure of what they are saying, making stuff up as they go.

Mr. Disappointment

@Billare That's life, just that some of us do it better than others. ;p

Unless you mean me, in which case, how dare you!

Billare

1:22 PM

lol no

I feel like said user is purposely trolling.

Mr. Disappointment

I'm not so sure to start guessing at who you mean, though. There are lots of SE users that seem to neglect the responsibility they have - moderators included.

Kit

Oh, crap. Are you talking about me?

@Martha!

Mr. Disappointment

Well, I was trying to be discreet, @Kit. ;)

Martha

@Kit Yes ma'am?

Kit

I'm at work, so I can't baby ambush you today. Maybe later.

hippietrail

1:29 PM

time for korean barbecue!

Martha

@Kit You need to take baby pictures to work. Like, srsly.

Kit

@MrDisappointment Maybe you should refer to this "mystery user" by a handle.

@MrDisappointment Something sneaky, like "KITT."

@Martha You said it sista.

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit I honestly don't know who @Billare has in mind, and I don't have anyone particular in mind - though I could think of at least one that falls into the moderator category, but not on this site.

Kit

@MrDisappointment It's funny, I was thinking of someone who I feel has been posting trolling comments.

@hippietrail There's such a thing?

Mr. Disappointment

@Kit /me reclines into shadows

Kit

1:33 PM

@MrDisappointment Oooo, you do that so well. Very creepy.

groan Speaking of crappy answers...

I wish I had better questions to ask.

z7sg

@MrDisappointment There is a guy on SO with I guess over 20k points or whatever and when I read his answers I just think 'no no no no no no'.

Vitaly

@Reg: is it possible to frame a question about the acceptability of a given English word that isn't marked as “vulgar,” “obscene,” etc in dictionaries, e.g. fool (as in, how likely is it that a native speaker takes offence when told he's a fool)? if so, how do I frame it?

Kit

@Vitaly I like a fool. Delicious.

Robusto

@Vitaly — That's a very hard distinction to make, sometimes.

RegDwight

@Vitaly Um. Just go ahead and ask?

5

Q: Is the noun "liar" considered offensive? Would it be offensive to use it with a proven liar?

Is the noun liar considered offensive? Would it be offensive to use it with a proven liar?

nouns pejorative

Vitaly

1:43 PM

@Reg: wow, so it isn't subjective when asked like that? Thanks

RegDwight

Well, it's open and all.

Besides, somehow I suspect your wording would be more bullet-proof.

Robusto

It's a legitimate and, I might add, important function of this site to guide people in the matter of potentially dangerous usages.

Vitaly

I am actually going to phrase it like that example almost verbatim @Reg

since I cannot come up with anything non-subjective myself in that case

0

Q: Is the adjective “vain” considered offensive when applied to a person?

I am given to understand by the Chambers Dictionary and Webster's that vain can be understood as thoughtless, empty-headed, useless, which all sound rather strong to me. Is it likely that a native English speaker takes offence at the following phrase? You are vain. If not, does the word hav...

adjectives pejorative

Robusto

@Vitaly — @Vitaly. If I offended you with my earlier comment, I apologize. I meant no disrespect. I was just trying to joke with you.

Vitaly

OK.

Mr. Disappointment

1:58 PM

@z7sg And it's their other actions on the site, too; given that important privileges are granted by 'earning', it begins to escape me that they manage at all to get where they are.

Robusto

@Vitaly — Odd as it may sound, I wouldn't insult you (in jest, the way I do with @RegDwight) if I didn't like you and think of you as a friend and equal. It's an inverted sort of affection.

Kit

@Vitaly I think a lot of EL&U participants have a good deal of respect for you.

Vitaly

:D

z7sg

@Kit Well I for one can't respect anyone until they have over 2k rep.

Kit

@z7sg Oh, z7sg, I will spend today earning your love then.

Ahem

z7sg

2:04 PM

Hehe, I saw that... ;)

Kit

@z7sg Nothing to see here. :)

@z7sg There's absolutely nothing going on between me and @Robusto.

Mr. Disappointment

@z7sg On any SE site? Please be specific regarding your criteria.

z7sg

@Kit I want to believe you I really do, just like when you said you had no affiliation with Knight Industries.

Kit

@z7sg I have no affiliation with Knight Industries.

Vitaly

@Kit: I like your comment.

That problem has been bothering me for a long time.

Kit

2:11 PM

@Vitaly I was thinking of a similar question recently about the differences in the offensiveness of certain slang words.

Vitaly

The only way I can see is being constantly observant of nonverbal signals among native speakers when they are told something or tell someone else something

But that tactic isn't available in a country that doesn't speak English

Kit

@Vitaly I like yours because non-native speakers can avoid slang, but might use words that are not listed as offensive or vulgar, and yet still get into trouble.

Vitaly

One could compensate for that by watching lots of TV shows in a way, but that isn't quite reliable

There could be bad actors and what not

Kit

@Vitaly Nor on the Internet, which blinds us.

Oops. Don't tell anyone my super-secret password, ok?

@Vitaly Also could be very dated.

Robusto

@Vitaly — Another problem is that you speak and understand English so well that I assume you understand everything, including context and connotation.

RegDwight

2:16 PM

Nah, @Vitaly is just whiny.

He keeps asking me if I hate his shopped images.

Robusto

Insult! Insult!

RegDwight

Him's like that.

Sorry, I meant to say, my dear @Vitaly is awfully whiny like a little girl OMG grow some balls.

Or something.

Vitaly

@Robusto There is no real context or connotation on the Internet, which is devoid of nonverbal signals (in reality, those constitute the major part of context and connotation). People like to imagine everyone else can magically read their minds on the Web— we are not evolutionarily hardwired for Internet chatrooms.

RegDwight

Smileys! Smileys!

Vitaly

And:) that's:) why:) I:) keep:) asking:) whether:) my:) shopped:) pictures:) are:) insulting:), because:) I:) can:) never:) know:) for:) a:) fact.:):):)

Robusto

2:18 PM

@Vitaly — No, but people can share a certain simpatico even in UTF-8 without smileys.

Vitaly

And even if someone claims something isn't insulting, it doesn't mean anything.

For all I know, they could be trying to come off as ‘generous’ (what's the word?), unwilling to be viewed as having a hair-trigger temper (thx @Kit)

Robusto

Wait, are you calling me generous? Why you ... I oughta ...

Kit

Hair-trigger temper.

@Vitaly Hmm. Easy-going?

Vitaly

Yes, thanks.

Kit

Is it lunchtime yet? By the gods, I'm hungry.

You guys want to get some Thai food?

Vitaly

2:24 PM

@Robusto Well, that reminds me of the typical mind fallacy.

Robusto

Lunchtime? It's barely time for second breakfast.

@Vitaly — Yes, but few escape that fallacy.

Kit

@Robusto Right, I should probably have elevensies before lunch.

RegDwight

@Vitaly You don't make any sense there, do you?

Kit

@Robusto I already had second breakfast.

RegDwight

> And even if someone claims something isn't insulting, it doesn't mean anything.

Then what's the point in asking?

Kit

2:26 PM

@RegDwight You are such a twit. Just kidding!

Vitaly

@RegDwight The wording of the response may give a clue. At least with people who have a good command of English.

Robusto

@Kit — No. He really is a twit.

Kit

@Robusto More like a tw*t.

Vitaly

@RegDwight Unless you are consciously processing every single word you post here, of course.

Kit

Do you guys know British slang well?

z7sg

2:28 PM

@Robusto I like this fallacy, it helps me understand people better.

Kit

@z7sg Thwack!

z7sg

@Kit I know it pretty well.

@Kit Hey! You want me to answer a question... you thwack me first??!!

Kit

There was this Python sketch where they were presenting censored versions of "naughty" words...

@z7sg Yes.

@z7sg You deserved it.

...anyway, one of them was "kn*ckers", which got laughs, followed by "kn*ckers", which got bigger laughs. I figure the first was "knickers"? But what would the second be?

z7sg

@Kit I deserved it? :D

Kit

I should've said one of them was knickers.

z7sg

2:31 PM

I don't know the sketch... knickers and knockers I guess

Kit

Knockers?

z7sg

knockers = tits = jugs = boobies etc

Kit

OOOOOHHHHHH! Right. Forgot about that one. Brits use that slang too then?

z7sg

Yeah, sometimes it's surprising how much crossover there is in slang.

Ah, I nearly forgot, we also say knackers meaning balls. As in "she kicked me in the knackers"

Kit

@z7sg Is that related to knackered?

@z7sg Knockers and knackers would make more sense to me than knickers. But then I don't get why bloody is so bloody offensive.

Vitaly

2:38 PM

@RegDwight Oh, and this is obvious, but I think I will mention it explicitly anyway: asking whether someone is insulted and getting a no in response pretty much frees one from possible future charges

@RegDwight That's all part of the human social protocol really, but it's rarely made explicit

See @Robusto, it's not only art I tend to subject to analysis.

z7sg

@Kit No I'm sure knackered comes from knackers' yard where the old horses were made into glue. No idea where testicles fit into to that.

Robusto

@Vitaly — I sensed that about you.

z7sg

I feel like bloody is some sort of blasphemy. I don't know. Pretty good question actually.

Kit

@z7sg Asked and answered

z7sg

@Kit All the best ones have been taken!

Vitaly

2:48 PM

I wish Anthropology.SE was there

I read about the British that they never take it into the personal plane in jocular arguments at pubs

You could say, “Your car sucks” or “Wow, what a stinky dress” or something along the lines

But never “You are <…>”

At least that's what I read

Now I am wondering, is that different in the US?

For informal, pub-like settings

Kit

@Vitaly I think we have more fun insulting each other personally.

Robusto

@Vitaly — Cf. slagging or slagging off.

Kit

@Vitaly Kind of a lighter form of the dozens.

But maybe that's just the people I hang out with.

Vitaly

Hmmmm. I see.

Though I definitely heard “Yo mama” from a Briton in that context

But now that I think of it, he was more like mocking Americans there

Jez

g'day

Vitaly

2:57 PM

Hello.

Jez

so who here's interested in languages in general?

Kit

@Jez Everyone.

Jez

ah

Kit

Can't take it. Getting lunch. AFK.

Jez

would anyone be interested in following my French site propsal? :-)

28

French Language & Usage

Proposed Q&A site for students having questions about French, expert speakers of French wanting to discuss the finer points of the language and translation questions from any language to French. Questions may be asked in English or French.

Currently in definition.

Vitaly

2:59 PM

Have a nice lunch @Kit

deutschsprachiger Raum

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…