The Pod Bay

TildalWave

00:00

I think you need something more viscous as a lubricant for those basalt fibers, that page says it's used just before the winding

LocalFluff

@kimholder but then there's that tape recorder in between, at number 8. That makes me a bit suspicious.

TildalWave

maybe that could be optimized somehow so you don't even consume any

longer fiber before the winding maybe

kim holder

wait, let me find a better diagram, i've seen a few

LocalFluff

Just heat stuff enough, and it will become liquid. Even Pluto so cold seems to liquify now and then. As would a rocky planet close enough to its Sun. A parabola of metal foil will liquify any part you wish in the Lunar surface. Heat and liquid don't seem to be hard constraints.

kim holder

@LocalFluff that's why i want to use it for everything.

@TildalWave yeah. it doesn't seem to be much. i have to ask about it.

LocalFluff

00:07

@TildalWave Sorry for not getting the ticker tape here. But what do you want to use for everything? Coal? Sunlight? Intelligence? It all sounds great, where available.

kim holder

oh, i think you mean me? heat, producing a liquid, which is molten basalt, which i use for everything

TildalWave

anyone wanna become a planetary scientist for FSI? jobswithucf.com/postings/44172

LocalFluff

A million, yes many million of years from now, future humans, or that which follows us, will, as we have always does, ask themselves what their origin is. Who created them. And their archeologists will track them down to Earth and to Apollo 11, the first extra-tellurian artifact.

And what do we, their interstellar creators, have as our meaning of life? No one knows. This is our God, our creator. Blind randomness. Our originator is as clueless as we are clueless to what we originate when we spread life to the galaxy.

kim holder

btw @BrianLynch i was totally planning to say on the space show that an engineering prof from queens has vetted my concepts and said they are basically sound

so the dome stuff is changing, but at some point if you want to qualify that, or leave it out,

Brian Lynch

@kimholder Cool :) I hope the CCPE or PEO doesn't come after me lol -- until I get my professional engineer designation I can't sign certificates of authority lol

TildalWave

00:18

@kimholder you'll have to mention it's Queen's uni in Kingston, CA because there's a Queen's uni at Charlotte, NC too

kim holder

i wondered if you'd have time before the interview to take a look a bit more to make sure that is really what you think

oh of course, and conspicuously mention brian's name several times

Brian Lynch

But I certainly think your design and analysis approach is great, and yes I will give you some more detailed feedback

kim holder

phew.

Brian Lynch

You can drop my name if you really want, but I'm not somebody that people will go "oh yea I know who that is"

kim holder

no, but that's the point, isn't it?

so maybe they will say that next time?

Brian Lynch

00:21

Also, just to clarify: I'm a post-doctoral fellow, also an adjunct professor (basically a fancy title for contract instructor)

LocalFluff

Bah, the lunatics can dress in tin foil and live in glass domes. Harshing and whittling. And clattering.

Brian Lynch

I'm just now putting together my application for a full faculty position -- my proposed research program is entitled "Advanced technologies for mining in space and on Earth"

kim holder

@LocalFluff (to do list: consider acoustics)

Brian Lynch

@kimholder true :) I'm just flexing my humility... would be awesome to have you spit my name out to the masses!

kim holder

@BrianLynch yeah, you talked about that. i think it will sell to young engineers like hotcakes

LocalFluff

00:24

I can almost imagine Dr. Spudis in a titanium foil skirt in a sunlit glass bulb on the Moon, but I refuse my mind to do so.

Brian Lynch

yes, our department is purely mining, no space research (outside of some projects in my lab), so I'm hoping to dazzle the committee with this stuff

kim holder

space is more in the air for the last few years. i think you are striking while the iron is hot.

i have the feeling david livingstone will be asking me some about my background and the genesis of the project

Brian Lynch

agreed, I don't want to get my hopes up unreasonably but this is definitely a great opportunity for me and comes at the right time in many ways

kim holder

so you can expect a fair bit of 'blah blah blah SX blah blah TildalWave blah blah Brian, Geoff, duzzy, Miha something, blah blah blah'

LocalFluff

I'm too stupid and lazy to start a fundraising campaign, otherwise I would've managed a project to build a sphinx on the Moon. It would easily get a million contributors a day.

kim holder

00:29

@BrianLynch i consider NASA getting extra money a good sign

@LocalFluff like the deathstar kickstarter campaign?

LocalFluff

@Kim Mer som Vermin Supreme

TildalWave

BTW there's a lot of interest for what ESA plans with the Moon

kim holder

@TildalWave i have followed it a bit.

TildalWave

they're moving together with Roscosmos and JAXA is interested in doing something together, NASA is like a cat on a hot tin roof because they really want to but lawmakers don't let them,...

I think even CSA and Israel have expressed interest

tho that's within ESA actually

kim holder

(i read lawnmowers won't let them)

there is a lot of interest in the moon outside of nasa

TildalWave

00:37

even within NASA they're just not openly talking about it

Brian Lynch

luckily CSA is a special member of ESA so I can bid on their projects too

TildalWave

but they do seem ready to officially continue their pet projects as soon as they'll be allowed to

kim holder

yes, that is certainly the impression i got

TildalWave

where does LPI get their money from?

kim holder

i do not know. they are adjunct to nasa in some way, aren't they?

TildalWave

00:40

> part of the Universities Space Research Association (USRA) and is supported by the Science Mission Directorate of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA)

kim holder

okay, i've ordered a fresnel lens 1m on a side

and there is plenty of basalt sand around here

and plenty of sun this time of year

and not only that, i'm going to write up something about that 3d sintering scheme on the forum just to get it off my chest. because i did actually think about it and discard it.

a few months ago

(now must make omlette and hash-browns with salsa)

TildalWave

01:21

@kimholder fantastic!

you're gonna have so much fun with it I'm almost jelly

maybe even more because you have enough sun to use it

we have about as much sun here this time of the year as Pluto

(enjoy your meal, that sounds delicious!)

Brian Lynch

@kimholder sweet, I will be keen to see what you do with it!

you should bug the inventor of that one I linked to get some secret hints

TildalWave

02:22

@RussellBorogove You might wanna substantiate the "sats would slow down and eventually stop", maybe link to Lorentz force or some Maxwell's equations / Faraday's law of induction? Things like that?

Russell Borogove

Ugh. Not worth it to me

TildalWave

ah yeah ... treadmill ... wot? :))

I missed that part, so yeah, not even any need to explain how dynamos work

Brian Lynch

03:25

I used to teach a lab on vehicle suspension dynamics -- i.e. vibration. As students learned about resonance, they would almost always jump to -- hey can't you use resonance for perpetual motion?!?

XKCD

05:05

It also occasionally replies with 'Comment of the year', 'Are you for real', and 'I'm taking a screenshot so I can remember this moment forever'.

Brian Lynch

05:38

@kimholder, just saw somebody post this on FB: planetaryresources.com/2016/01/…

3D printed from a ground-up meteorite

kim holder

14:38

@BrianLynch ha, that's really cool

@BrianLynch yeah, i definitely should. once i have it and i've tried it out a little, i try to contact him.

@TildalWave hee, almost jelly :)

TildalWave

in related news, NASA Establishes Planetary Defense Coordination Office spacepolicyonline.com/news/…

because we all know that's gonna save us from the impending doom :)

that was another "cute typo" for you @kim ("impeding doom" LOL)

kim holder

heh, i can't help thinking that it is really there for the defense reasons vaguely referred to as 'any potential threats'

TildalWave

which dooms usually are

kim holder

yea, i noticed that. i was going to say, do you have mixed feelings about impeding doom? should doom maybe not be impeded?

TildalWave

Wouldn't a doom already be impeding? Why would we need to impede it more? You mean to undoom it? :))

(who said English isn't fun? :P)

kim holder

14:51

well, if you cut the 'the' there, then saving us from impeding doom you stop impeding doom. so i cut the 'the', being a doom sort of person.

TildalWave

oh and B612 has a new page b612foundation.org

goes to check for Closest Approach To Earth (0.000 AU) in Baalke's Space Calendar :))

kim holder

wow, they have a very well designed site.

TildalWave

it wasn't too shabby before either, maybe it was just getting a bit bigger than what it was designed for

that IAA Planetary Defense Conference last April apparently got many people moving, looking forward to the next one then

kim holder

15:17

i'm a little surprised to see a private advocacy body with a sophisticated satellite design

Brian Lynch

15:35

^impeding doom

kim holder

:DDD

Hohmannfan

Why does it seems like the number of upvotes I get on an answer is inverse proportional to the actual importance of it?

kim holder

because the complexity of an answer is inversely proportional to the number of people who will get it.

TildalWave

@Hohmannfan it's always been like that here

yeah what @kim said

Hohmannfan

But it does not feel so good that my highest ranking answers are about nuking things in space, I am not a big fan of nuking things in general.

TildalWave

15:47

I have to repeat like every so often that I haven't a clue about space exploration, it's just something I'm interested in as a sidekick, not my professional activity

that because I have most rep on the site

which is actually more representative to how much effort you put into it than how much you know on the matter

but yeah, I did learn a great deal while answering too

Hohmannfan

Being totally fanatic also helps a lot :)

TildalWave

so TL;DR don't be too bothered about votes, those have a life of their own

and even if I'm often like the Don Quixote tilting at the SuperCollider, that's just for kicks really ;)

Hohmannfan

The only thing keeping ion-drives alive are that they glow blue, the shuttle had cool looking wings, and Mars is very red.

TildalWave

(pun intended)

@Hohmannfan nuclear reactors glow blue too :P

Chirenkov (or something) radiation

Cherenkov :)

Hohmannfan

You know this boring, grey lump of metal? Well, it is very interesting because of invisible things happening inside it.

TildalWave

15:53

@Hohmannfan my agenda is to get the humanity into space so I can have this best piece of the Universe all for myself :))

Hohmannfan

Wanna team up?

TildalWave

LOL

Brian Lynch

there is a great short story by Asimov where everyone goes home after work to their own dimension

TildalWave

oh that would be lovely

Hohmannfan

@BrianLynch What? Does other people not do that?

Brian Lynch

15:57

not normally, you should have your landlord check that!

Hohmannfan

No charge for 4-dimensional space

TildalWave

s/landlord/timelord

Brian Lynch

lol

5+ dimensonal!

we already have 4!

Hohmannfan

I live inside this blue phone box, it is enough for me...

Brian Lynch

(I suppose "universe" makes more sense)

nice, very Thoreau-like

Hohmannfan

16:08

Response triggered by keyword("Thor-"): I hear a lot about the 'miracles' of thorium reactors, but isn't it just: 1. Make thorium into uranium. 2. Burn uranium in a reactor. I know it is another isotope, but fissile stuff is fissile stuff, and it is more true anyway than the people claiming it is nuclear power without radiation. (yes, someone said that to me!)

Russell Borogove

16:42

My coffee hasn't kicked in yet so I can't fully understand the advantages/disadvantages listed in en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium_fuel_cycle#Nuclear_fuel

Hohmannfan

Coffee? Not tea with milk?

Russell Borogove

I'm American. Coffee with heavy cream.

Brian Lynch

17:08

There hasn't been tea in America since 1773 right?

sorry I mean 'Merca

lol

TildalWave

they just left all of it on the Mayflower :P

ah you were referring to the Boston tea party

I guess you're right, can't have the tea disagree with you without first having some

Brian Lynch

:) haha yea

duzzy

'Merica!

We don't drink tea. We drink bacon!

4

Brian Lynch

06x16 Bart vs Australia x264 ac3 02

►

any Aussies?

Hohmannfan

I drink coffee too, of course. After all, I am Norwegian: statista.com/statistics/277135/…

kim holder

17:18

i recently ran out of tea and there WASN'T ANY IN THE SUPERMARKET. AHHHH...

TildalWave

The Space Show w/ Dr. Henry Hertzfeld of Space Policy Institute on launch economics, reusability, asteroid mining,... is now podcast live. More info in the newsletter

starts in 5 minutes

posting early for @kim :)

kim holder

17:37

predictably, the show is not loading

however i am this time repeatedly reloading

@TildalWave what did you say the web address is now? not the kara.fast-serv one, but the one that is a url?

TildalWave

@kimholder live365.com/stations/dlivingston?site=pro

duzzy

These things are always blocked at work. :(

TildalWave

it's that button-sized image on the "listen live" page :P

kim holder

no not that

duzzy

Anything but that!

TildalWave

17:45

@kimholder dunno then what you mean, they're all URLs

thespaceshow.com/content/listen-live

kim holder

anyhow, vlc loaded the fast-serv file that downloads when you click on that button

which rhythmbox and audacious have never done

TildalWave

that's the .pls file (playlist) yes, all it has in it is kara.fast-serv.com:9192

[playlist]
NumberOfEntries=1
File1=kara.fast-serv.com:9192

kim holder

yeah i know that address by heart now, but no program i have ever loaded it

TildalWave

that's odd

have you tried with "load URL" or "load stream" and similar?

kim holder

yep

TildalWave

17:49

well it works in all players I have, I just checked

works even in Windows Media Player

kim holder

remember i am on ubuntu

the android apps have no excuse

TildalWave

it should work in VLC on android, I used that before

or XMMS on linux

kim holder

that's the address i was looking for, you listed it a couple of days ago

an aspx address?

TildalWave

ah that... yeah that one now gives 404 not found

but you shouldn't need it

it's same as the .pls link just in a bit different format, but nearly all players also have some sort of "load/play URL/web address/web stream" option in menus

in which you put http://kara.fast-serv.com:9192/

kim holder

ah, ok. vlc on android loaded that right away.

it didn't occur to me that was actually a regular url and that the beginning was just omitted.

i was always omitting the http://

TildalWave

18:00

<asx version="3.0">
<entry>
<ref href="http://kara.fast-serv.com:9192" />
<title>The Space Show</title>
<author>Dr. David Livingston</author>
<copyright>© Copyright 2015 Dr. David M Livingston & One Giant Leap Foundation</copyright>
</entry>
</asx>

this would be a .asx file entry

just edit some new text file, add that in, then save as .asx

I'm not sure what the actual file that the link to it is dead would look like, so some entries are just whatever I thought fits there

yup, works, my Win players accept it

kim holder

trying the asx

that was rhythmbox, which i really should delete

audacious worked with the kara address

TildalWave

that .asx link doesn't work?

kim holder

it does, but i don't know how i load that into one of those programs. when i tried to get rhythmbox to open the asx file i save to the desktop as spaceshow.asx with that same text, it did nothing

ubuntu doesn't have a right-click open with function for that

TildalWave

are your speakers on? :))

kim holder

i have gotten it working with audacious, and vlc

TildalWave

18:10

so then it works

kim holder

i did mention that...

i was just showing that it really does not load when a perfectly reasonable attempt to do that is tried with several of my programs

the pls doesn't work

and with rhythmbox, even if you spell it out, it still doesn't work

David Freitag

@TildalWave A pls file? Oh dear don't tell Simon...

TildalWave

dunno about that

@DavidFreitag why?

David Freitag

@TildalWave It'll all go to his head

TildalWave

ah hahha yeah I wouldn't want that

@kimholder I never really used Rhythmbox

and I try to avoid VLC when I can too, but it seems to work OK on Android

most of the time

Brian Lynch

18:13

what?

anyone understand that question?

kim holder

(the kara address works when properly formatted... haven't gotten the asx to work. just to be clear)

TildalWave

@BrianLynch which one?

on the show?

Brian Lynch

something about students and free speech

yea

TildalWave

not really

kim holder

that is just coming on, on my feed

TildalWave

18:15

I have no idea how that relates to the show

Brian Lynch

just didn't even sound like a space question

"safe space"... space? did that guy even know what the show is about?

almost sounds like a prank question

TildalWave

or a stalker one

Brian Lynch

yea haha

TildalWave

when is that Musk's plan with Mars supposed to be published?

TildalWave

18:46

yeah though question @BrianLynch !! :))

Brian Lynch

yea i choked him up lol

TildalWave

it's a bit unclear how do e.g. OST and "rescue agreement" apply to private sector, that's what's now being worked into US legislation with fist attempts, but those are faaaar from complete

Brian Lynch

yea exactly

and I'm thinking about what David is saying right now

huge cooperative conglomerates work better for giant projects

TildalWave

Oh definitely, if I can return back to that Mayflower (LOL), it's gonna be similar won't it? Many people came on it to same destination for different purposes, not all of them were incompatible.

Brian Lynch

yea for sure

almost the best possible situation for space exploration and development, competition driving innovation with unavoidable cooperation amplifying everyone's progress

(or they all fall like dominos... lol)

TildalWave

18:53

a bit like contemporary astronomy

all the interesting projects are way bigger than efforts of individuals can manage

and once you have infrastructure, it's shared among all the many investors

but I don't think that requires any paradigm shift that hasn't shifted already

Brian Lynch

yea, so if they recognize that from the beginning then you'd hope to see more investment into infrastructure from a cooperative group I think

yea maybe a bit of a stronger wording than needed

TildalWave

I guess we'll have to invent a few more banks for that, but it wouldn't be a first

bonds maybe? dunno

kim holder

ebay.com/itm/…

i bought two. the shipping from china for the alibaba option was going to be too expensive

Brian Lynch

nice

TildalWave

is that from some rear projection TV?

kim holder

19:08

yeah. hubby was actually trying to get me one (or a few) by inquiring with a local repair shop

we figured that around here there might still be people who have one and throw it out and it might end up in a shop one way or another

Brian Lynch

and your intention is to try and replicate the solar scinter idea?

kim holder

well, i just want to get a sense of how the material behaves

Brian Lynch

you're making me think that I should add this to my list of proposed research projects

kim holder

i know it is a very different situation, but i can get lots of material that is roughly analogous

there is loads of basalt sand here

Brian Lynch

is it that different from the sand in the Sahara?

or you mean compared to regolith?

kim holder

19:11

its black sand, all volcanic material

Brian Lynch

oh gotcha

kim holder

it is mostly or entirely basalt

i think... i mean, i have to check, but if it is volcanic sand then it is basalt i think

TildalWave

yup

kim holder

there ya go. and ground pretty fine, though not as fine as regolith

TildalWave

I'm still fond of that basking on the sun on the beaches of Santorini

most are black sand, like Perissa (not sure of spelling) but there's also white and red ones

kim holder

19:15

that does sound great.

TildalWave

it's interesting how that black sand actually reflects in all colors of the rainbow when you look closer

kim holder

it does? interesting

TildalWave

yeah I think it's because it's small enough that it exposes its crystalline structure

something like that

I didn't really care so much about things like that when I was there LOL

kim holder

i'm thinking of what sort of camera i need to properly document my experiments :)))

TildalWave

that tour of the vineyards was great tho :)

@kimholder I wouldn't sacrifice some expensive one, you might damage its sensor with focus onto such bright spot

maybe get some sun filters

kim holder

19:20

10 kg of obsidian on my desk

Brian Lynch

cool

kim holder

@TildalWave yeah, that was what i was wondering about

cost of obsidian chunk - think it was $8

Brian Lynch

is the colour varied or all black and just the reflection/shininess making it look grey?

wow really?

kim holder

no lack of it

TildalWave

@kimholder oh that's nice, it looks a lot larger than 10 kg tho

look at those scratches it did LOL

Brian Lynch

19:22

you could make a lot of weapons for fighting off the undead from north of the Wall

kim holder

it isn't quite pure black. we have a brown one too

it's just an unfinished plywood desk, it scratches from anything

supposed to be temporary, but i like it

TildalWave

obsidian is pretty rare here

@kimholder oh don't worry my desks are all scratched and I don't care either

kim holder

there's the brown one from some impurity, and a mug for scale

TildalWave

that's melted clay?

kim holder

that would make sense, the soil here has a high content of red clay

TildalWave

19:29

well yeah sense ... hmmm ... wouldn't that require like extreme temperatures to melt it?

kim holder

i assume it is just a small percentage that got washed into a lava flow

that was fluid enough to thoroughly mix with it

anyhow, there is tons of such material that i can test to see how it melts :]

or cracks, or what have you

someone suggested i go talk to a university here and see if i can draw them in to doing some work on this, by pointing to PISCES work along the same lines

which i might do

TildalWave

PISCES?

Surely not ...

PISCES

PISCES (Personal Identification Secure Comparison and Evaluation System) is a border control database system largely based on biometrics developed by Booz Allen Hamilton Inc.. == Overview == The PISCES-project was initiated by the Department of State, Terrorist Interdiction Program (TIP) in 1997, initially as a system for countries in improving their watchlisting capabilities by providing a mainframe computer system to facilitate immigration processing in half a dozen countries. Foreign authorities used the technology to watchlist and exchange information with the United States Department of State...

blimey I got this strong deja vu feeling

Brian Lynch

looks like basalt sand has lower melting temperature than silica sand

TildalWave

did we talk about this before?

kim holder

pisces.uhh.hawaii.edu

Pacific International Space Center for Exploration Systems

TildalWave

19:37

that makes a lot more sense :)

kim holder

headed by rob kelso. who has a SX / moonwards tshirt :)

TildalWave

ah yeah? nice!

kim holder

they have been working on basalt paving tiles

for a landing pad or what have you

Brian Lynch

on the Moon?

kim holder

yep

i'm looking for it, it was a presentation at LEAG

hou.usra.edu/meetings/leag2015/presentations/Thursday/Kelso.pdf

i like his rovers much, much better :]]]

kim holder

20:04

what am i forgetting? oh yeah...

darn, did it wrong...

is that no longer a reply to @duzzy? well anyhow, it's a duzzy thing...

duzzy

What did I do? :P

kim holder

@duzzy it was that one... and anyhow it's been a while

duzzy

Oh, yeah. That. >_>

TildalWave

21:04

@kimholder ha ACME Landing Pad :) I heard of that before (probably LEAG?) but forgot about it

kim holder

21:22

maybe that was the source of your deja vu

TildalWave

21:34

entirely possible

Brian Lynch

21:50

gee is that moon mission question too broad?

kim holder

@BrianLynch yeah, i like your reply. i get a homework question feel from it.

duzzy

I like how a first aid kit is included in the necessary supplies.

Well, maybe a first aid kit.

kim holder

:))

TildalWave

just vote to close as unclear, the close text will say what needs to be done to reopen it

or too broad, opinion based,... your choice

Brian Lynch

22:28

I gave them the best answer I can think of haha

kim holder

hey, where have i seen that video before? :D

TildalWave

it's not a self-contained answer tho

all of it is elsewhere

Brian Lynch

Moon Machines

kim holder

link-only answer and not spam

TildalWave

can you please either expand or convert to a comment?

Brian Lynch

22:31

Yea I suppose, I just figured the whole thing was garbage and going to be closed anyway so I threw caution to the wind...

TildalWave

sure but you might get an upvote from some other rebel and that then locks the thread as worth keeping around

and thanks :)

Brian Lynch

oh really? if you upvote an answer then the question is uncloseable?

TildalWave

it can be closed, but it won't magically disappear in time :)

anyway, your "answer" didn't meet our standards of quality, mostly because none of it was where you posted it as such LOL

and YouTube videos can easily disappear without notice

Brian Lynch

yes it was definitely not an actual answer

I suppose the OP wouldn't pick up on my subtle meaning of commenting as an answer with a YouTube video of people listing off what he wants in about 30 seconds lol

TildalWave

Ok, maybe the required equipment is too broad but I thought it is like a "standard" what would be the crew size, qualification, ect..? — jonapap 8 mins ago

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