English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Tom W

21:00

the basic mechanics of how they form prohibit that, I believe

Matt Эллен

Cerberus

@TomW That is also my impression, although I think we get one occasionally. But it's very rare.

Tom W

on the other hand...

Cerberus

> The United States has the most tornadoes of any country, and most strong and violent tornadoes. This is mostly due to the unique geography of the continent, ... Downsloped winds off the Rockies force the formation of a dry line when the flow aloft is strong, while the Gulf of Mexico fuels abundant low-level moisture. This unique topography allows for frequent collisions of warm and cold air, the conditions that breed strong, long-lived storms throughout the year.

@TomW Hmm interesting point.

Tom W

Cerberus

21:02

Sharp, one would say.

Tornado climatology

The United States has the most tornadoes of any country, and most strong and violent tornadoes. This is mostly due to the unique geography of the continent, and of course to the size of the country. North America is a large continent that extends from the tropics north into arctic areas, and has no major east-west mountain range to block air flow between these two areas. In the middle latitudes, where most tornadoes of the world occur, the Rocky Mountains block moisture and buckle the atmospheric flow, forcing drier air at mid-levels of the troposphere due to downsloped winds, and causin...

RegDwighт

Apr 17 '11 at 13:11, by Robusto

Matt Эллен

@TomW the UK had a hurricane once in my lifetime. in 1987

Great Storm of 1987

{| class="infobox" |- ! colspan="2" style="background:#b0c4de; text-align:center;"|The Great Storm of 1987 |- !colspan="2"| |- ! colspan="2" style="background:#b0c4de; text-align:center;"|Data |- |Formed: |15 October 1987 |- |Dissipated: |16 October 1987 |- |Lowest pressure: |953 mbar (hPa) |- |Highest winds: |216 km/h (134 mph) |- |Countries affected | France England |- |Fatalities: |22 |- |Damages: |UK: £1 billion; France: 23 billion Francs |} The Great Storm of 1987 occurred on the night of 15–16 October, when gale-force winds caused casualties and extensive damage on both s...

Tom W

@MattЭллен F4U12

i) it wasn't a hurricane

Cerberus

> The United States averaged 1,274 tornadoes per year in the last decade, along with Canada reporting nearly 100 annually in the southern regions. [2] However, the UK probably has most tornadoes per area per year, 0.14 per 1000 km².[3] Also the Netherlands have relatively many tornadoes per area.

@MattЭллен Wtf, look at this! ^

Matt Эллен

@TomW blah blah blah. that's all I hear

Cerberus

21:03

Have you ever seen a tornado?

Tom W

ii) Michael Fish was discussing the golf in Florida or somewhere at the time

iii) Bill Giles did the forecast, Michael Fish just read it, and therefore it's not his fault

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus ha! we're a dangerous place to live :D

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I have seen a tomato. Does that count?

Cerberus

Odd.

@RegDwighт Yes? When and where?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus no, but I've seen the aftermath on my cycle to work

RegDwighт

21:05

@Cerberus Last time, at seven.

Cerberus

I have heard of a tornado, I think last year, around the Belgian border.

@RegDwighт Then it doesn't count.

@MattЭллен Scary.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I could have misremembered, and it was at eight.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I don't think it was very big, but it destroyed a few trees

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Not. Count.

@MattЭллен Luckily it didn't destroy a few cyclists!

RegDwighт

@Cerberus It's okay, I lied about misremembering anyway.

Matt Эллен

21:08

@Cerberus yeah :D

Cerberus

Gosh, Reg lied.

That's new.

Tom W

there was a tornado in Birmingham a few years ago

and it really was a tornado

Cerberus

Oh noes!

Tom W

destroyed a few houses

Cerberus

Really in actual streets?

shivers

Does a tornado quickly lose force when it comes up against brick/stone buildings?

RegDwighт

21:09

@Cerberus no, it's not new. I lied on seven separate occasions. And before that, I lied on eight more occasions.

Tom W

2005 Birmingham tornado

The Birmingham tornado was one of the strongest tornadoes recorded in the United Kingdom in nearly 30 years, occurring on 28 July 2005 in the suburbs of Birmingham. It formed on a day when strong tornadoes were expected to develop across the Midlands and eastern England. The tornado struck at approximately 2.30pm BST in the Sparkbrook area of the city, also affecting King's Heath, Moseley and Balsall Heath as it carved a kilometre-long path through the city. Its main effects were felt in the Ladypool Road which bore the brunt of the damage. Ladypool Primary School was extensively dam...

ok, took roofs off

and yes, brick buildings are pretty strong against tornadoes

RegDwighт

I am planning on lying on further occasions as they come along.

Matt Эллен

tonado in oxfordshire

Tom W

complicated slightly by the fact that on most houses built in the modern british style, the tiles are held on only by gravity

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен not "tornado in Oxfordshire"; "tornado reported in Oxfordshire". There's a difference.

I am reporting seventeen tornadoes in Berlin alone right now as we speak.

Matt Эллен

21:11

@RegDwighт is this one of your lies?

Cerberus

> it carved a kilometre-long path through the city

@TomW I think we have that too.

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен time will tell. I won't.

Cerberus

So apparently, a tornado isn't slowed down or weakened by houses much?

> While the United Kingdom has more reported tornadoes, relative to its land area, than any other country excluding the Netherlands, the vast majority are weak.

This happened to us in the 17th century:

This is the result.

RegDwighт

Most reported tornadoes. Pfft. What's next, most reported UFOs?

Cerberus

That was one church.

Matt Эллен

21:13

@RegDwighт EL&U chat has the most reported lego hippos

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен little do you know how many hippos I report elsewhere.

Matt Эллен

it's true. there is little that I know

RegDwighт

See. I should report that.

Matt Эллен

lol

time for me to abed. I hope a tornado doesn't carry me off in my sleep

Cerberus

Bye!

RegDwighт

21:16

@MattЭллен Just don't forget Toto.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Yes: our high stats are probably at least partly caused by our high population density.

Or are tornadoes also recorded automatically through satellites?

RegDwighт

Satellites don't do shit automatically, except orbit.

And not every gust of air can be seen from outer space.

Cerberus

I mean they might automatically beam down images, which could then be analysed by computers.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I'd fire the architect. He forgot like half the building. Sloppy.

Cerberus

But it seems unlikely.

@RegDwighт How dare you speak ill of the Great Architect of the heavens!

RegDwighт

21:20

Boldly, that's how. I dare boldly.

Cerberus

If it was His Will to renovate the church by means of a tornado, then so be it.

RegDwighт

So you're saying you wouldn't fire God if you had the chance?

Man, these opportunities don't come thick and fast!

Cerberus

I think you're supposed to go boldly, not dare boldly. It's like wet water.

Tom W

Yes, 'renovate'...

'demolish' and 'abolish' sound surprisingly similar in the howling wind...

Cerberus

@RegDwighт No, I would talk to His/Her supervisor.

@TomW Haha, indeed.

RegDwighт

21:22

Only James Tiberius Kirk is allowed to go boldly. I am but mortal coil.

TRiG

@Cerberus Science triumphed over religion the first time a church had a lighting rod installed, and that was quite some time ago now.

RegDwighт

Only a scientist could say such nonsense as "science triumphed over religion".

TRiG

@RegDwighт Certain forms of religion, anyway. Or certain interpretations of it.

Also, while I do have a science education (a chemistry degree), I wouldn't call myself a scientist. I don't actually work in the field.

RegDwighт

Science only got out of the basement once, so the religious quarterbacks had someone to bully around.

@TRiG so you openly admit you cannot say that!

Only a scientist can, and you're not a scientist. QED.

Cerberus

@TRiG Hahaha.

Did the Romans have lightning rods?

RegDwighт

21:30

Lightning rods were made by men who were made by God, who also made the lightning in the first place. I'm not following your excitement.

Tom W

I'm waiting for the day where I can hold my hands up to a panicked crowd and say:
"It's alright....I'm a Scientist"

RegDwighт

@TomW oh you could always do it. Once. As the last thing you did.

Tom W

innocent bystander turned inside-out by alien virus. I can manage that

safety goggles and a steady hand

Cerberus

> Some of the most ancient lightning conductors can be found in Sri Lanka in places like the Anuradhapura Kingdom that dates back thousands of years.

RegDwighт

@TomW The goggles do nothing, though. FYI

Cerberus

21:33

Hmm I find this doubtful. The Wiki article isn't terribly impressive.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus yeah I bet those are just for scratching your back and these so-called "scientists" are too dumb to figure that out.

Tom W

even "It's alright....I'm a Programmer" would probably have better effect - if you're in that particular situation where some automated system has gone horribly wrong

Cerberus

@RegDwighт What scientists?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus those arch scientists, archaeopterixes, or what you call them.

@TomW if you're in that particular situation where some automated system has gone horribly wrong, identifying yourself as a programmer would get you lynched. You haven't thought this through now, have you?

Tom W

@RegDwighт hey, I'm not Microsoft

RegDwighт

21:39

@TomW you can try that as an excuse on Judgment Day. Meanwhile you've been lynched and are waiting for said day.

Tom W

/*Apple*/*OmniCorp*/*OCP*

yunoformatright

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Or, the archaeopterices.

@TomW Multivac!

RegDwighт

Those are the women, yes. I'm talking men, though.

Cerberus

There are few Greek or Latin words, if any, whose stem ends on -x-.

RegDwighт

That's because there are no Latin words anymore at all.

Cerberus

21:42

I can think of verbs.

RegDwighт

And Greece just went bankrupt. They can't afford X.

Cerberus

Flexi, flexus.

Haven't you heard? We're paying to keep Greece solvent.

RegDwighт

Yeah but X is like ten, dude. Ten! That is way more than anybody's paying.

Cerberus

There are also stems on -m-...

RegDwighт

Yeah, like stem.

Cerberus

21:44

I'm afraid the stem of stemma is stemmat-.

But...I am not sure.

Tom W

@Cerberus leeloo dallas multivac?

Cerberus

It may be stemm-!

RegDwighт

@Cerberus That you just made up. And very poorly at that. Shame on you.

Cerberus

@TomW Eh, what's that?

Tom W

ja, stimmt.

Cerberus

21:45

I'm talking about the computer called Multivac.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus Multipaß!

Tom W

shame on you.

Cerberus

@TomW Aber ja was denn?

RegDwighт

@TomW er hat keinen Fernseher.

Tom W

The Fifth Element

The Fifth Element () is a 1997 English-language French science fiction film directed, co-written, and based on a story by Luc Besson. The film stars Bruce Willis, Gary Oldman, and Milla Jovovich. Mostly set during the twenty-third century, the film's central plot involves the survival of humanity, which becomes the duty of Korben Dallas (Willis), a taxicab driver and former special forces Major, when a young woman (Jovovich) falls into his taxicab. Upon learning about her significance, Dallas must join efforts with the girl to recover four mystical stones essential to defending Earth fro...

Cerberus

21:45

@RegDwighт Multipaß?

RegDwighт

QED.

Cerberus

Hab'ich noch nie gesehen.

RegDwighт

QED hoch zwei.

Cerberus

Hoch zwei?

Tom W

Fuck. Am I the only interacting non-German here?

RegDwighт

21:46

Okay, okay, sieben.

@TomW well you started it. You invaded Poland.

Besides, there are no Germans here at all.

Cerberus

@TomW Ich kan dich leider nicht verstehen, wenn du Englisch sprichst.

RegDwighт

I do see a Swede.

@Cerberus cough wenn cough.

Cerberus

I knew it!

I was going to ask.

Your wenns and wanns never make sense to us.

RegDwighт

If you knew it, you were not going to ask.

Tom W

my German is primary-school level, if that. And I expect primary-school children can probably conjugate correctly

Cerberus

21:48

@RegDwighт You see him, but only barely. He's all grey and misty in the distance.

RegDwighт

Right on.

Cerberus

@TomW Still admirable. I just bluff.

RegDwighт

Now, where are all our Germans? Haven't seen them in Jahren!

Like Eldroß.

Cerberus

Eldroß? Den hab'ich nog nie gesehen.

Tom W

I had a holiday in Berlin a few weeks ago. I had hoped that I might be able to resurrect a few key phrases from my time in school - didn't quite work out that way

RegDwighт

21:50

@Cerberus You have talked to him, dummy.

Cerberus

Vielleicht ist er erdroßelt werden?

Tom W

if you initiate a conversation, you get robble robble robble

total incomprehension

Cerberus

Haha, I know the problem.

Tom W

you've just made life a lot more complicated for yourself

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Aber wann denn?

RegDwighт

21:51

Apr 20 '12 at 18:26, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Wenn ist das Nunstück git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!

Tom W

:D

RegDwighт

@Cerberus erdrosselt worden.

Cerberus

@TomW Yeah...although, when I start in French, Parisiens always talk back in English.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus vor sieben, vielleicht acht.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Damn, I knew it was worden! That is, I was thinking, werden looks weird, should it be worden? Naaah.

Tom W

21:52

the Germans were excessively polite and did their best to humour me

RegDwighт

@Cerberus it's okay, you were prachtig.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Ach, so lange her.

@RegDwighт Und du warst hübsch.

RegDwighт

War, bin, und werde.

Cerberus

Wenn and wann are hard. I never know when to use one and when the other.

Tom W

it complicates matters when you get into certain neighbourhoods and cafe owners, for example, speak about as much German as the english tourists visiting them

Cerberus

21:53

@RegDwighт *werde sein

@TomW Haha, yes, that happens. English is fairly safe, especially in Berlin.

RegDwighт

@TomW simply use "teşekkür ederim", then.

Tom W

@Cerberus my understanding is that wenn describes 'whenever', and wann is for 'if I ever'

Cerberus

What's that? Our Turks never say that!

RegDwighт

@Cerberus it's simple. You use the one precisely when you do not use the other!

You learned that trick from me.

Cerberus

@TomW Hmmm...that's hard!

Tom W

21:55

or maybe that's the other way round

is it?

RegDwighт

@TomW an "if" cannot possibly be a "wann", ever.

Tom W

it probably is the other way around, then

RegDwighт

Too lazy to check.

Cerberus

Because when do you use "whenever", as in, how do you explain the rule?

Tom W

but I think that is the distinction

RegDwighт

21:56

Give me ten examples, I will tell you they are all wrong. That I can do.

Tom W

'whenever' assumes that you might have or probably have in the past and assumes you'll continue to do so in the future

Cerberus

@TomW I think you mean the difference between conditional and temporal?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus whenever would be "irgendwann" or "wann auch immer".

Tom W

probably

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Yeah, that makes sense.

Dutch is very sloppy with wanneer v. als.

RegDwighт

21:57

When = wann. If = wenn.

Cerberus

Really?

RegDwighт

Everything else follows.

Cerberus

Is it that simple?

Tom W

would it be reasonable to say 'wenn is speculative'?

Cerberus

So wann is exclusively temporal, and v.v.?

RegDwighт

21:58

Well, all ifs are always speculative, no?

Cerberus

But I don't think this is possible:

RegDwighт

@Cerberus no, of course not. That would be too simple. And Flipperwaldt. And Slotterdijk.

Cerberus

> Wenn er den Dichter erschossen hatte, müssen wir ihn töten.

I would use als there?

Please disregard my other grammatical mistakes. Or regard them.

RegDwighт

That is a strange sentence for other reasons. Plusquamperfect and Präsens?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…