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00:32
Well done Shakespeare.
@RegDwighт Hmm I wonder whose hippo this is that stands to receive micropayments...
I encourage everyone here to click the button and Flattr Reg's hippo if you like it.
If you don't have Flattr yet, make a quick account.
I think Javascript chat room has copied the room title of English Language & Usage
0
Q: Base64 decode and SH1 decryption of Sec-WebSocket-Accept value example from Websocket RFC

TemporaryNickNameI am planning to implement the Websocket protocol and currently learning how handshake headers must be structured. According to this link http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6455/?include_text=1 To prove that the handshake was received, the server has to take two pieces of information and ...

brb =D
01:48
02:00
!!/hang 10
  +---+
  |   |
  |
  |
  |
__+__

----------
Oh, wrong room.
 
1 hour later…
03:02
What happened to @tchrist?
Hmm I seem to recall he was going some place for a couple of days?
Or am I mistaken? My memory is so-so.
Do you think Kim Jung Un is cool because he is similar to Game of Throne's Joffery?
Cool? Joffrey is the most miserable, sad, pathetic, and evil character in the series.
In no way is he cool.
KJU couldn't possibly be that bad. He is more like a somewhat dangerous idiot.
His mother is cool, somewhat-evil though she be.
03:19
@Cerberus His dad want him to lose weight while in North Korea so there are no food left in North Korea
Haha.
-25 16 mins ago reversal Serial upvoting reversed
-120 16 mins ago reversal Serial upvoting reversed
-205 16 mins ago reversal Serial upvoting reversed
WTF?
Odd.
That means someone must have been upvoting too many of your questions in too short a time.
So the votes were reversed, alas.
dang, I guess someone loved my answer so much and upvoted other answers as well or something
=/
-12
Q: Serial upvoting reversed

rcs20What is the reason why I get -70 of Serial upvoting reversed on Stack Overflow, -70 of doing what? I read the document Upcoming Reputation History Changes But I want to know which why in details why I get -70. Come on this is crazy Anyone?

 
2 hours later…
05:51
> I'd be curious to hear Apple's reasoning for taking down an app in China that allowed users to read books about Tibet.
06:09
Does anyone play SC2 heart of swarm? I am wonder what it means when Sarah Kerrigan tells Jim Laynor "You are like riding a bike"
@8:40
06:25
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 ++ on that q
@TemporaryNickName "Like riding a bike" means you never forget how to do it. But I don't know what it means in this particular context, as I have never played the game, and can't be bothered watching the clip that you pasted in.
ok thanks
@DavidWallace but it's a great video game so you must play it and watch the clip
 
4 hours later…
10:21
@Cerberus haha, you come up with the weirdest sites. Again.
Now let me guess: you can flattr flattr on flattr, right?
10:58
@TemporaryNickName gah. 33 minutes? And Blizzard? I guess I'm with David on this one, my life's too short.
And right in the very first seconds it suffers from that stupid trope that's so ubiquitous even TVTropes haven't noticed and listed it yet.
Aircraft swooshing around in stupid trajectories for no frigging reason whatsoever, other than that it doesn't look good on camera if you showed them taking the route any sane pilot would take.
in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, 14 hours ago, by Tom W
these are awesome http://monstersofgrok.com/
I wish people who do this were forced to take planes that actually fly like that, going around every building they can find, and landing at the weirdest angles, rather than going in a straight line.
@RegDwighт Fun at air shows, though.
Except when there are catastrophic accidents.
Yeah.
It all started with the stupid Star Wars. Where when they need to attack the Death Star, they fly into that stupid 10-feet wide chasm, to navigate it forever, die in huge numbers, and then fire the torpedo at an angle of 90 degrees, rather than just firing it in a straight line from orbit and be done.
11:15
Also with a lot of vrooming and whooshing sounds in the vacuum of space.
Oh of course.
Gotta hand it to this Russky pilot.
Yeah you posted that two years ago. We discussed.
Mad skillz.
@Robusto and don't forget running out of fuel. Because when you are moving at 100 miles per second in space, and suddenly discover that you don't have kerosene, you stop on the spot.
Of course.
And those fighters look like they store a lot of fuel, right?
Well they certainly don't store much brain, so I guess that space is used for something else.
11:19
The whole idea of interstellar flight is beyond even our practical imagining at this point.
Plus, the defining moment is always something like a fire onboard, or one guy clinging to some edge, or two guys slapping each other. They could have all of that without leaving their appartment.
It's funny, but I asked a practical question about the durability of machinery for interstellar space flight, and people just said it was "too speculative." Hahaha. If I'd asked whether warp drives were possible, people would have been all over it.
> It would need to survive for decades unless it was travelling at a double digit % of the speed of light.
Umm, decades?
Well you got a warning from a doctor with purple analysis. I would listen!
I don't even know what that means.
Doctor Bong, no less.
11:24
I must have interrupted his Star Wars high with my question about mechanical engineering.
@Robusto nobody does. It's a completely random feature so redditors still have something to discuss after having discussed everything, seven times a week, for seven years.
See, we're not even on Reddit and we're discussing it! It wurks.
Somewhere, in some remote tube of the internetz, it is working.
The Stephen King It.
Interesting verb. I should try Stephen Kinging it sometime.
Wait, I already have.
With less than optimal results.
No prob. You could simply optisult it.
11:28
Oh, completely forgot the funniest statement:
> By interstellar you mean to other stars?
Yeah that was the first thing that jumped at me.
Well, what do you expect from a Subreddit that spells Neon backwards? For science?
You look at ELU long enough and your brain filters that crap right out.
Hehe.
11:51
@RegDwighт Blizzard is the best
@TemporaryNickName I can name at least seven thousand fifty four things that are better than Blizzard,
@RegDwighт However, I must admit that Blizzard has been sucky lately with their Mist of Pandaria obsession. In that case, NCSoft is a better game corporation than Blizzard
@RegDwighт like what?
Like this soup I am eating.
I would starve to death if I had to eat Blizzard instead.
12:15
huh, weird.
@TemporaryNickName Stop doing that!
Posting things and then deleting them
Why do you keep doing that?
13:41
Hahaha
1
A: List.remove removes odd elements

TemporaryNickNameEver imagined doing it functional programming way? List<Integer> original = Arrays.asList(1,2,3,4,5,6); List<Integer> oddList = filter(MatcherFactory.odd, original); for(int s : oddList){ System.out.println(s); } //and it prints out 1,3,5 And make a class called Match...

these people need to learn how to do functional programming
14:28
@RegDwighт Is it weird?
You can earn money with your Flick photo's, and reward other people's Flickr photos. The same applies to the entire web, if you install the right plug-in; but for Flickr all you need to do is create a (free) account on Flattr.com.
I know all that. I registered, too. This is not a new idea. But I couldn't name an implementation.
And actually there sort of is a problem with that sort of Flickr and YouTube integration. What if I want to like or fav something without spending money?
There are any number of reasons why people fav stuff. Simply as a bookmark, for example.
That is true.
Or when you like a YouTube video because some moron in it hurt himself, and you like morons getting hurt. Which is kind of the exact opposite of giving said morons money.
You'd either have to work from two Flickr accounts, or the Flattr plug-in would have to have an "off" button.
14:37
@RegDwighт This is, alas, beyond my mental capacity to envision.
I was actually thinking the same thing about Youtube videos, that I just vote random videos up.
So perhaps those videos do deserve my money?
If I watch the cat video and I like it enough to press the "thumbs up" button...
But it wouldn't be fair towards stuff that I liked a lot more. Like a certain hippo!
There's a general, inherent problem with liking. Are you liking what you are seeing, or the work put into making you see it? That's a question that comes up all the time, whenever people "Like" the war in Syria, or "Like" a video of a child getting rolled over by an SUV.
There should really be two separate buttons. This has been discussed to death, but never actually happened.
One for "thank you for the work you put into bringing this to my attention" and a separate one for "I actually like what you have brought to my attention".
Right. I'm not sure I'd put it like that, but, sure.
Yeah countless people before me put it way better than I just did.
However, couldn't one argue that you are glad the video exists in both cases?
Oh, the problem is typically quite superficial. Just the label. When it says, in plain English, "American soldier decapitated. 235 people like this."
14:43
It is rather the proportion that I think is the problem. If I could give the killed child 1 Flattr and the hand-crafted robot that sings operas 10 Flattrs...
Which at least some people then try to prevent, so they vote against. Even though they'd have voted for otherwise.
Oh haha.
Well, that's Youtube's problem.
That's everyone's problem.
In fact it started with Facebook.
I don't care about how they name it, but rather about what it does.
Well, lots of sites have "favourite" or "vote up"...
And still is on Facebook, or everywhere that stupid FB button is. Which at this point is on every single page.
14:44
I rarely ever "like" stuff on Facebook.
It never occurs to me to click that button.
It's stupid because there's no counterpart.
Unlike even on YouTube.
We had a longish discussion with Mr Shiny about that. Don't want to start it all over.
But it's stupid.
But even with systems where you can vote up or down, like Reddit or YouTube or StumbleUpon, or SE, that is still too simplistic, so you get people voting up or down for entirely different, and entirely incompatible, reasons.
I suppose.
But is it a problem?
What purpose does liking/voting serve anyway?
Well, you do get a Reddit post every single goddamn week suggesting that there be not two arrows, but four, or six, or eighteen.
It can be in order to be able to sort things from popular to less popular, or to reward creators (Flattr).
Yeah, as I said, incompatible.
14:49
Well...
If you base the former on the latter, wouldn't that sort of work?
If you want to reward it, chances are that you want it to come up high in a list.
That's how all the GEMA and RIAA shit is supposed to work, and you know where that gets us.
Uhh...
You could argue against the whole concept of artists creating art for money.
But, in so far as they do appreciate the money, and people are willing to give it, isn't this a rather elegant system?
I pay a couple cents for every xerocopy, or for every VHS cassette, or for every DVD-ROM, or for every PC, even, but that money then never goes to Mozart, it goes to Christina Aguilera.
14:52
That is a problem, and things like Flattr have solved it.
Modern technology can truly get money to the right places.
Worse still, some of that money does not even go to Christina Aguilera; it stays with the bureaucrats, as their paycheck for thinking up how it should go to Christina Aguilera.
I rather think 90 % of it doesn't go to the artist.
That's actually a question I haven't looked up about flattr yet. How much do they keep?
Or perhaps bigger artists get a bigger chunk than smaller artists.
10 %.
14:54
By the way, I wouldn't want to call Ch. Aguilera an "artist". I take that back.
Well too late, you already clicked the "artist" button, and it cannot be unclicked. So you'll be paying her next month.
Ideally, an institution like Mozilla will some day reinvent a peer-to-peer-based Flattr and take 0 %.
But I think you can Unflatter?
Let me try that.
Hey! Don't try that with me! I'm poor!
Hahah! You have a cancel button!
You're the first thing I've flattered this month, and flatters of the previous month are of course definitive.
I will write them to tell them that the Cancel button should double up the amount pledged.
Except if it's Christina Aguilera.
14:57
That makes sense.
I have a serious question.
@Cerberus so you've been using this for some time already?
I have. For maybe 6 months?
That's a lot.
Thanks.
Hi everybody
14:58
Now on with your "serious" "question".
Hi guys! Are any of you here doing natural language understanding (with/for computers) and mind maps?
Not the ones present here at the moment. Though we are doing natural language understanding without computers as we speak.
My question was: in this day and age, why do pop singers stay with record labels and are content with receiving less than 50 % of what people pay for their stuff, when they can so easily promote themselves on the Internet?
Hello Kiron, Mats!
@Cerberus I can't answer that. There can be any number of reasons. I would have to speculate. I do not know.
I will have to point out that "so easily promote themselves on the Internet" is quite an exaggeration.
I think many upcoming artists are already starting out independent, so it's already happening; the old singers are probably tied up in contracts?
@RegDwighт I don't know, at least it's very easy to have your own website distribute your music.
15:00
It's like putting emphasis on every word in your sentence. When everything is in bold, nothing is. Likewise, when everyone is promoting themselves on the Internet, no one is.
@Cerberus yeah, distribute as in "give away for free". That is easy, yes.
And not just with music.
But yes, I'll be very interested to see what the music business will look like fifty years from now.
@RegDwighт Granted, most of this self-promotion will not be the direct work of the singer, but rather mouth-to-mouth.
Yesterday I posted a question that maybe for many is very obvious, but still I'm not understand completely: english.stackexchange.com/questions/114325/… Can you help me another way of saying the same thing "as it was" in that context?
@Cerberus nah, that is actually the hardest part. If you can make most of your promotion not be your own, then you're golden already, and might as well not have a website in the first place.
@RegDwighт It's also easy to offer it for money, although acceptance rates may be low. But there are plenty of ways singers can make money while giving away their music for free, like Amanda Palmer (former Dresden Dolls) does; at any rate, most singers make most of their money not from selling their music, but from concerts, merchandise, and other stuff.
> idiomatically like "as it is" (in its current state / as the situation stands)
This is how you should interpret it. Although I'm not sure I see the difference between that and "as it happens", unless by that you mean temporal as, like "when it happens", which would be the wrong interpretation.
@Cerberus as soon as you offer something for just one cent, you reduce the number of people wanting it by several orders of magnitude. It is not about the price. It is all about convenience. Which is why micropayments still haven't taken off, and never will. There has been tons of research on that, and Clay Shirky has a few excellent essays you might have read.
Suffice it to say: the newspaper business thinks micropayments will be their salvation. And if that business thinks X will be their salvation, we know it will be their coffin nail.
15:07
@RegDwighт I just mean that, in olden days, you needed a record label to distribute your music and organise stuff; now, you don't.
Yeah that much is true. But in the olden days distributing your music equaled to getting paid. Today it only equals to itself, distributing.
@RegDwighт I don't know: I think there are two major problems with micropayments: 1.) most people overprice themselves; 2.) micropayments only work if all you ever have to do is a single click.
Creating another account is annoying.
@Cerberus ok, thanks
@Cerberus the point is that the latter is a much graver problem than it seems, while the former is not a problem at all. You can price yourself at a fraction of a cent, but if it takes more than one click, or even just one click, most people will not pay.
@Kiron My pleasure! Did you understand Stoney's answer about how you use "as it is" to return to the real situation after having speculated about an hypothetical situation?
15:10
@Cerberus I guessed with "however that may be"...
@RegDwighт So ad 2.a.) if everybody were already using Flattr, it would truly just be one click; and ad 2.b.) as long as a significant percentage of people click, you're fine. Not everybody needs to click.
@Kiron Yes, that more or less expresses the same "back to reality".
@Cerberus sort of, but the much more important lesson is 3: you cannot actually overprice yourself, because the two and a half people who will pay you will pay you 10 dollars as gladly as they'd pay you 0.1 cent. And the six billion people who will not pay you, will not pay you no matter what. So actually it's in your best interest to not price yourself at a fraction of a cent, otherwise you're actively minimizing your profit.
Umm why would that be true?
And 4. if everybody were already using Flattr, alternatives to Flattr would pop up and supersede it.
@RegDwighт It has been proven that prices for e.g. games are far more elastic than that.
@RegDwighт That would be fine. You can use 999 such systems simultaneously.
15:14
@Cerberus no, it has been proven that you only get easy money if you're as easy to use and as fair and as transparent as Valve. Otherwise it simply does not matter what price you put on your product, you will never even begin to compete with them.
There is no way I'm paying € 10 for the picture of your hippo, but I am willing to give you a proportion of my monthly Flattr allowance, which stays the same anyway, no matter how many things I Flattr.
@Cerberus oh, I can. And you can. And we will. But billions of people can't, and won't.
Then why did you mention a different superseding system?
@Cerberus yeah but that's fundamentally different from micropayments.
But that's the system I am praising.
15:16
@Cerberus because that's how the Internet works. Nobody is on MySpace anymore. Ten years from now, nobody will be on Facebook.
Hi @Cerberus
How do you do?
Hi.
How do you do?
@RegDwighт So?
Thanks.
@Cerberus well yes, but I've been discussing micropayments. We can discuss several things at a time. My argument complex is sound and self-containing.
Flattr is a form of micropayments.
15:17
@Cerberus so nothing. I just wrote a sentence. There is no "so". Otherwise I'd have included the "so".
@Cerberus If he smokes less he might get rid of his cough.
@RegDwighт But anyway, if there were absolute Flattr buttons, such as "donate € 0,50", I'd still press the button, but not "donate € 10".
What's wrong in the sentence?
@Sudhir It's fine in informal speech/writing, but, technically, you probably need smoked there, because you have might in the main clause.
I suspect that opinions vary.
@Cerberus no, micropayments at this point has too specific a meaning. If we apply it to fundamentally different things, we'll only make it impossibly hard for ourselves to discuss anything at all. You could call purchasing a lemon micropayment. But then the definition of micropayment would be too broad to be useful.
15:20
@Cerberus oh, okay.
I'm not sure...
@Cerberus see, and most people would not press it if it said "donate € 0.0001".
Thanks again. By. Have a good day
I'm not making this up. These are not my words. Someone else put decades of work into researching this stuff.
@RegDwighт If all they had to do was click once, and if they liked your thing, I think a significant proportion would. Again, you don't need the majority to click.
@Kiron Bye!
15:23
@Cerberus that much is true. But contrary to popular belief, a small fraction of a couple thousand people giving you a fraction of a cent each won't make you a millionaire. They won't even make you a oneaire.
@Cerberus: suffered of cholera OR suffered from cholera?
@RegDwighт Who said you had to become a millionaire?
@Sudhir From.
@Cerberus Your original question, I thought, was about not just musicians being able to put up their stuff on the Internet, but actually making a living out of it, and a better living to boot than the one they are getting out of labels.
@RegDwighт Oh, no.
Ah, okay.
15:24
Thanks.
Well, in that case there's your answer right there: Madonna likes to have millions, but wouldn't like having hundreds instead.
I didn't mean their main income should be from micropayments/Flattr. That was only sideways related.
21 mins ago, by Cerberus
@RegDwighт It's also easy to offer it for money, although acceptance rates may be low. But there are plenty of ways singers can make money while giving away their music for free, like Amanda Palmer (former Dresden Dolls) does; at any rate, most singers make most of their money not from selling their music, but from concerts, merchandise, and other stuff.
Perhaps part of the problem is that the biggest singers do make a significant part of their money from selling music files/CDs?
I've never heard of or anything of Amanda Palmer. Even though I might absolutely love her. I have, however, heard everything and then some of, about, and from Madonna, even though I hate her with a passion. QED.
But, if Madonna sings for 50,000 people in a stadium at € 100 each, that's a million euros in one night.
@Cerberus careful, you forget that that business is even worse than labels. That's not a million Euros for her. More like a thousand.
The rest all goes to greedy people all along the way.
15:28
@RegDwighт I think and hope (but also really think) that's partly a matter of inertia: the system is already changing, it needs more time.
What's the name of that ticketing service monopolist pig?
@Cerberus nah, I don't think this can be an evolution, only a revolution.
@RegDwighт Like whom? If she hired someone who truly worked for her to organise the concert, she could receive most of the money in her pockets.
@RegDwighт See, with the modern Internet, she could easily have her own ticket site.
The system does not want to change. It does not have us in mind, or the artists. It only has itself in mind.
Of course it has itself in mind.
And yet it is already changing.
@Cerberus nope. That's the point. She'd be sued out of business by a company the size of Microsoft.
15:29
More and more singers are going independent.
Her children would have to live under a bridge for three generations.
@RegDwighт How?
Are you talking about patent trolling?
@Cerberus with an army of lawyers, that's how.
Why do you think there are no fifty thousand ticketing services around?
But there are.
Not in the US, and last I checked not in Germany either.
I've no idea about Holland, but there's no money in Holland anyway.
15:31
Scuse me?
We make more per hour than either you or the Americans.
That's because there are only three of you. All attached to the same body.
But anyway, a ticket service is trivially easy to make.
I would say "go ahead and do it, nerd boy", but I care too much about you not getting sued out of existence.
If indeed there are patent problems, either pay Microsoft or wait 12 years for the patent to expire.
@RegDwighт This is not America. People don't get sued easily here.
I'm talking about the future anyway.
HAHAHAHA! Trivially easy! "Just wait twelve years!" Now that is the funniest definition of "trivially easy" I have read in a long time.
15:33
How things will be in 20 years.
Then stop using the present tense, ferchrissakes.
You keep saying "is".
Not "will be".
There are probably many reasons why someone like Madonna can't/won't go independent now, if only her existing contracts, which may well be for her entire life.
But, eventually, someone like her will be able to make just as much, or more, money independently.
I think you way overestimate the amount of work a sixty-year old woman is willing to invest into setting up and running her own website.
Haha. Does she even know hot e-mail?
She will outsource it to someone anyway. At which point it makes no frigging difference what company he works for.
15:35
But really, she would hire someone.
@RegDwighт No, that's not true at all.
Well, reality proves you wrong. Sorry.
If the singer has control, she can pay a decent price, instead of being forced to pay inordinate amounts of money per hour that this person worked for her.
Let me find an article for you...
No one forces you to pay anything per hour.
In fact if you hired someone outside a label, now that is when you'd have to pay per hour.
With the label, you just give them a sum of money, and they do with it whatever they please. Hire one webmaster, or ten, or none. And don't you dare tell me that these labels somehow pay webmasters decent rates, of all things.
And I have to go make music myself. So allow me to silently disappear while you're searching for an article on something I care way less for than for pressing keys on actual musical instruments.
@RegDwighт No, but see:
You give that label a huge amount of money, and how many hours do they work for that, all things considered?
Seven. Perhaps eight.
But you know that in advance.
15:40
If you make a full account, it would turn out they earned a bazillion dollars an hour.
Like real-estate agents.
Yep. So?
They get 1 % of your house for maybe 5 hours of work.
And your question is why people give them that money?
So my point is, if you are in control, and your literally someone by the hour to promote/etc. your stuff, you end up paying way less, and you keep more. Why do you think those labels are so rich?
> It's a licensing arrangement. The deal that [musician] Trent [Reznor] is able to do at this stage of the game is different than what he would have been able to do at 19 years old coming into his first arrangement.... There are always different levels of accommodation and leverage that you're able to do. For Trent, fortunately, at this stage of the game, he's able to license it and continue to own his masters... and, really, that's the most relevant thing about the deal.
Well I am sorry to inform you that people are dumb. And lazy. But mostly dumb. And things like real-estate agents, or music labels, or lottery, or politics, is just a way to distribute from the dumb many to the not-so-dumb few.
And I am not here.
You do realize how frigging hard it is to be typing this while holding a bayan?
Lators.
@RegDwighт Yes, but there is more to it than that: people used to have no other option than to work with a label and give the label full control over everything. Because they couldn't distribute their own music and organise their own concerts. Now they can, by means of the Internet.
All right, happy playing.
@Cerberus people had the option of not working with real-estate agents, or not voting for corrupt politicians, for millenia. What is your point?
@RegDwighт Do you know how many people forego real-estate agents these days?
Very, very many.
By your reasoning, music labels or real-estate agents would not exist in the first place.
15:45
All because of the Internet.
And I am not here.
@RegDwighт No: by my reasoning, their role is in the process of diminishing greatly, because of the Internet.
Of course they can't disappear in one day.
Or even one decade.
By my reasoning, that is a truism. What else do you have on offer, the sky is blue?
But it is happening. It's clear.
@RegDwighт Which proposition of mine is a truism? And what is your position, then? You seemed to be saying singers weren't going to be more and more independent of record labels as I described.
You just jumped from "why don't people do this, why are there still music labels" to "people are doing this! music labels will cease to exist".
I'm not sure why you needed me for that.
@Cerberus I am not saying anything. You said something. I said I knew nothing about it. You kept asking me questions after that.
It's not like this hasn't happened before. Every single time. :P
15:48
@RegDwighт Okay, I see what you mean.
A bit of a misunderstanding.
51 mins ago, by Cerberus
My question was: in this day and age, why do pop singers stay with record labels and are content with receiving less than 50 % of what people pay for their stuff, when they can so easily promote themselves on the Internet?
50 mins ago, by RegDwighт
@Cerberus I can't answer that. There can be any number of reasons. I would have to speculate. I do not know.
That is your original question, and that is my original answer.
Next time we should just leave it at that.
The bayan won't play itself.
I shouldn't have jumped from the current situation to the way things could be without clearly marking it as such.
Have fun!

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