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15:00
Its a very specific use, sure, but for that, it works
that looks like bengali or some other non devanagari, non tamil script
hm, and some devanagari charecters
but nothing that would give me issues
> Helvetica swept through the design world in the ’60s and became synonymous with modern, progressive, cosmopolitan attitudes.
This says it all.
> On browsers that use Arial Unicode MS to display IPA characters, the following incorrectly formed sequences may look better due to a bug in that font: ts͡, tʃ͡, tɕ͡, dz͡, dʒ͡, dʑ͡, tɬ͡, kp͡, ɡb͡, ŋm͡.
> On browsers that use Arial Unicode MS to display IPA characters, the following incorrectly formed sequences may look better due to a bug in that font: ts͡, tʃ͡, tɕ͡, dz͡, dʒ͡, dʑ͡, tɬ͡, kp͡, ɡb͡, ŋm͡.
If those look wrong to you, you are not using Arial Unicode MS. :)
The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)"The acronym 'IPA' strictly refers [...] to the 'International Phonetic Association'. But it is now such a common practice to use the acronym also to refer to the alphabet itself (from the phrase 'International Phonetic Alphabet') that resistance seems pedantic. Context usually serves to disambiguate the two usages." (Laver 1994:561) is an alphabetic system of phonetic notation based primarily on the Latin alphabet. It was devised by the International Phonetic Association as a standardized representation of the sounds of oral language. The IPA...
It’s from there.
This chat doesn't use Arial.
It tries to use Verdana, and falls back to Arial if unavailable.
@tchrist I did not find that page very readable, think I prefer sans
15:06
It turns out that Apple fixed Arial Unicode MS with respect to what they are saying does not work right.
@tchrist At any rate, the first sequence looks better, but still far from perfect.
@tchrist serifs are much easier to read in books, but sans serifs are easier on the eye online. There have been studies. Don't ask me for links.
asks
@RegDwighт 96 dpi
Well yes, I encourage you to read this chat at 96 dpi.
Me, I have like 96 dps.
Dots per screen.
15:09
My image shows that on an Apple, they fixed the combining character bug that Microsoft still ships.
Apparently.
@Cerberus Verdana has extremely few sorts, so what happens in the case of out-of-font glyphs varies.
Just checked, I'm at 1280×720. And that's on a 62-cm screen.
Sorts?
@RegDwighт Aww.
Well, that's not so bad.
@Cerberus Glyphs.
@Cerberus not aww, but I can lean back like four meters away. And do.
“Characters”.
I generally read from an arm’s length away.
15:12
@Cerberus Sorts comes from real letterpress printing.
Maybe I'm just used to it but I find the chat very readable. Have more trouble to write :D
@AndrewLeach Hence the movie, A Love Affair of Sorts (2011).
It appears that different browser+o/s platform combos do different things when they bump into a code point for which the currently selected font has no glyph. Font-substitution policies are anything but clear and consistent, or often even reasonable.
@RegDwighт One can make the letters bigger on high resolution too, you know.
@RegDwighт Some of us are typophiles.
15:14
@AndrewLeach Yeah, that's why typographese is nearly unintelligible for the uninitiated!
@tchrist Yeah, I never understand how they work.
@Cerberus no point in that, though. Plus I'd also have to resize the icons on the desktop, and all the menus in all programs, everything. Easier to change just exactly one setting.
Plus I think this stupid Vista only comes with so many different resolutions that fit my aspect ratio.
There are like a zillion for 4:3, but only a couple for 16:9.
@RegDwighт I think all that changes automatically if you change the DPI in your display settings in Windows.
What was that word you've just said?
@Cerberus well what you think and what I know are apparently two different things!
Who'd've thunk.
@Cerberus I can’t seem to predict which it will select. It doesn’t make sense to swap between types but it does.
@tchrist Annoying.
@RegDwighт shrugs
15:17
@RegDwighт just ctrl + '+' if you use Chrome
The Verdana on this box has only 756 glyphs.
Shocking!
@Cerberus the whole point is that it should not change automatically. The absolute size must stay the same. So I can still read from 4 meters away.
@RegDwighт Yes.
Although 4m is a bit far.
I used to maximise the screen magnifier to read from the couch, can you believe it?
@JohanLarsson or in any other browser, yes. I know that, you miss the point. This would work if Chrome were the only program I was using. I am using dozens. Not all of them support Ctrl++, but even that is beside the point. The point is I don't want to do the same thing over and over again in every single damn program if I can change just one global setting and be done.
15:19
Lucida Grande has 2,778.
@Cerberus He does that because he likes to laugh at superstition.
@RegDwighт on Windoze you can but there are issues with it, VLC did not play nice with magnification for example
@JohanLarsson or ctrl mouse wheel up/down
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 That’s for the whole screen, not just the current window. I’m not sure I like it.
@JohanLarsson my VLC does shit of its own anyway. Same for my MPlayer. Whenever I start them they resize themselves in all kinds of funky ways, switch the color scheme to standard from Aero, etc. etc.
Doesn't matter though as I always watch in fullscreen mode.
At which point I have full HD.
@tchrist I should think you could do that at any place, any time.
15:23
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I watched the Jon Jones fight, tough guy to say the least, he did not even notice the toe until the interview. He should have school for all soccer players who start to cry if someone runs within five meters from them.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 that annoys me quite a bit. Because 999 times out of 1000 it happens by accident.
@Cerberus He sits thirteen feet from his keyboard because it’s his lucky number.
Big house, though.
May 1 at 16:48, by RegDwighт
I am sitting in a 323 square feet room, and have no room for a plane.
Buy a tablet imo
Tablets are waste of perfectly good money.
15:25
>_>
but booze is not?
@tchrist Ah, you count in archaic body parts! Of course.
I have one for dogsitting
waits for it...waits for it...
Your room is 18 feet on a side? Or like 15 by 22. Still, sitting 13 feet from the screen is like having it being on the other side of the road, right?
15:25
Jul 15 '11 at 21:12, by RegDwight
I must admit that I am one of those folks for whom wine is just a waste of perfectly fine grape juice.
Next question.
lol
@RegDwighт: and computers are a waste of perfectly good sand?
@JourneymanGeek no, but that's what we turn them into.
Apr 19 at 15:19, by RegDwighт
Listen to someone who drinks for a living.
@JohanLarsson so? The advice is still valid. I said someone. I didn't say "me".
ok /topic
15:27
Oct 18 '12 at 10:45, by RegDwighт
You can't win at this game against me. I've been playing it for too long.
haha, I struggle to get my points across even when in agreement :D (in English)
I think I must be off shopping for vittles.
I don't want to, but the urge not to die is stronger.
I saw a somewhat interesting thing when walking puppy just now, a woodpecker pecking away at the top of a lamppost. Sounded strange and I've been hearing that sound for some time now, finally spotted him.
Oh I love woodpeckers.
AFK
My tripod is out-of-home otherwise I could try snap a picture of him
@RegDwighт yep that is our guy 'Större hackspett'
15:33
@RegDwighт That’s really well done. Is it yours?
@JohanLarsson What kind is yours?
Preferably in Latin, not Swedish. :)
We don’t get Dendrocopos here.
@tchrist I only use it for sites with 10pt. text and Micro$oft Office products.
they are fairly common here, fly in a characteristic way, easy to spot. Makes pauses.
@JohanLarsson omg, I know, right? Joe: Can we get a stool for this guy? Anyone? I'll get it myself.
@RegDwighт I'm sorry to hear that. It took me a while to master 'mouse wheel click opens link in new tab'. I kept scrolling instead.
@RegDwighт hooray!
15:38
@JohanLarsson So it’s 9–10” long. I thought it would have been larger. Our most common woodpecker in Colorado is also our largest: the flicker, at 11–14”.
Colaptes auratus
Wikipedia says it has more than a 100 common names. Gosh, and they wonder why one unifies on taxonomic binomials?!
The Northern Flicker (Colaptes auratus) is a medium-sized member of the woodpecker family. It is native to most of North America, parts of Central America, Cuba, the Cayman Islands, and is one of the few woodpecker species that migrate. There are over 100 common names for the Northern Flicker. Among them are: Yellowhammer, clape, gaffer woodpecker, harry-wicket, heigh-ho, wake-up, walk-up, wick-up, yarrup, and gawker bird. Many of these names are attempts at imitating some of its calls. Taxonomy The Northern Flicker is part of the genus Colaptes which encompasses 12 New-World woodpecke...
Alas, we get none of the giants woodies here.
The Pileated Woodpecker (Dryocopus pileatus) is a very large North American woodpecker, roughly crow-sized, inhabiting deciduous forests in eastern North America, the Great Lakes, the boreal forests of Canada, and parts of the Pacific coast. It is also the largest woodpecker in the United States, except the possibly extinct Ivory-billed Woodpecker. Description Adults are long, span across the wings and weigh , with an average weight of . Each wing measures , the tail measures , the bill is and the tarsus measures . They are mainly black with a red crest, and have a white line down the...
Those are out east.
It’s 16–19”, so the size of a crow.
@RegDwighт Wow.
@tchrist We have Spillkråka being the largest and Gröngöling second largest. 'Större' is a bit of a misnomer.
latin in wiki links
Looks like woodpeckers in general are good looking birds.
I wonder what makes a bird look good.
@Cerberus you don't know his birds? flickr.com/photos/detomaso/sets/72157629962167813
We discussed them before.
Colors imo
Don’t most birds look good? But the woodpeckers are striking in their constrastive coloration.
Blue jays are as pretty as they are mean.
They usually have all three basic colors: black and white and red all over.
yeah sure most look good but not crows
I like those red-winged blackbirds, too.
15:46
I have had orioles before my face all week now. Beyond awesome.
@RegDwighт Wow!
And I even recognise all of them.
Although I wouldn't know the name of one bird.
pica pica was one, the rest I know only in Swedish
He has more. These are just the British ones. He has like three or four other series, I think.
@JohanLarsson That’s a magpie. And no, I didn’t look it up.
Those are the orioles I have here now.
Tropical birds, really, at least in coloration.
@tchrist correct I believe you of course, the name sticks. I did not know the English word and will probably forget it :D
15:49
Ahh the one I didn't recognise is a vink, but its characteristic beak is unrecognisable.
Goldfinch.
What's vink in German?
@RegDwighт Those are nice.
@Cerberus Vink is probably Finch.
At least, as a cognate.
Fink in German.
@tchrist Of course.
@RegDwighт That makes sense.
@tchrist yeah that's always dangerous with birds and plants and mushrooms. False friends all over the place.
But the birds are less likely to kill you if you get it wrong.
15:53
@RegDwighт Are there?
Hitchcock begs to differ.
If the same bird is called vink and finch, then chances are 99 % that they should be cognates.
@Cerberus Sure.
@Cerberus don't ask me to think of examples now, but the next time I bump into one I'll ping you.
What you mean is probably when cognate words are used to describe similar but different birds.
15:55
@Cerberus that's not the point. False friends is the other way round: you have obvious cognates but it is not the same bird.
@RegDwighт ^
And in scientific terms, "not the same" can mean a completely negligible difference for us mortals.
The Germans call these thrushes “blackbirds”, for example, whereas for us, blackbirds are icterids and their blackbirds are actually just like our robins but same color all over, whereas their robins are different.
When similar-sounding words are used for the exact same bird, however, it is safe to assume that they are cognate.
Well yes. My point is I do not know if Fink and vink and finch are the same bird.
15:56
An Amsel is a kind of Turdus, just like the American robin.
Blackbird is a German word?
A blackbird is a merel in Dutch, Latin merula.
Turdus merula.
You can't polish a turdus merula.
We have no blackbirds that are thrushes.
Why am I here? I must be off. I hate procrastination. Too bad I hate the opposite thing even more.
15:57
I don’t mean no birds that are black.
I mean nothing we call a blackbird is a thrush.
Our robin and his Amsel are close cousins.
His Amsel acts like our robin, too.
The New World blackbirds consist of 26 species of icterid birds that share the name blackbird but do not correspond with a formal taxon. The distributions of all species is limited to the Americas, and this group is distinct from the Eurasian Common Blackbird (Turdus merula) and related species. Species The New World blackbird species: *Austral Blackbird (Curaeus curaeus) *Bolivian Blackbird (Agelaioides oreopsar) *Brewer's Blackbird (Euphagus cyanocephalus) *Chestnut-capped Blackbird (Chrysomus ruficapillus) *Chopi Blackbird (Gnorimopsar chopi) *Cuban Blackbird (Dives atroviolaceus) ...
I only know that Sturmvogel and stormfugl are not the same.
A red-winged blackbird and a Baltimore oriole are both icterids.
@RegDwighт I can only think of storm petrels there.
Which appear to be Sturmschwalben.
Yes, the bird would be petrel. That's stormfugl in Danish and some other Germanic languages I think. But Sturmvogel is a Messerschmitt.
Turdus merula is 'koltrast' in Sweden, they are nice because they play jazz
Oh!
That makes some sense.
@JohanLarsson They play jazz?
16:04
I think they do, they have great variation
@RegDwighт I didn't know they were still in business.
Many other birds are more like derp, derp, derp...
Oscines v. suboscines?
So bikes and birds and bombers.
Well, fighters.
Weird about the bike.
@JohanLarsson Song birds sing.
I have a Turdus talking to me right now. They cluck around a bit, don’t they?
They're singing!
How dare you insult the obscines!
Now, if it had been a suboscen...
16:10
Here for clucking Turdids.
The third one is the one I am hearing now.
That's quite nice?
It's interesting how well birds adapt to an urban environment.
Cf. other vertebrates.
Of the mammals, only mice and rats can.
Squirrels.
Bunnies.
Foxes.
Nor any of those.
No squirrels.
Huh?
I see squirrels and rabbits and deer and prairie dogs and coyotes and foxes every day.
Inside the city limits.
We have a real problem with urban foxes.
16:13
In American suburbs, perhaps.
A lot of folks do.
@Cerberus Huh?
@AndrewLeach Really? Where?
Suburb is the wrong word.
@tchrist Well, those who feed them presumably don't.
A semi-rural part of a city, then?
16:14
It implies some subsidiary satellite of a city.
No, animals live amongst us.
@Cerberus In the UK. London especially; but I'm on the south coast.
A typical city environment is all stone and metal!
@Cerberus That’s a ghetto.
@AndrewLeach Surely there are no foxen on Trafalgar Square?
The opposite of a ghetto is not a suburb.
16:15
@tchrist It's a city!
No, cities have green spaces. Ghettos don’t.
@Cerberus There are foxes anywhere there's earth to burrow into.
@tchrist Well, what would you call it, then?
An industrial wasteland? I don’t know.
@tchrist Parks, yes. But no bunnies or foxen in parks.
16:16
Sure there are.
@Cerberus Oh yes there are.
The bunnies are a real problem, actually.
@tchrist Industrial? Not at all. Industry is rarely inside the city proper.
@AndrewLeach Not in city parks!
Funny.
@Cerberus Yes. In city parks. And gardens.
We have lots of herons and parrots in city parks. And pigeons and seagulls are all over the city. But land animals?
@AndrewLeach You really have foxes in very centre of London?
16:17
I associate a lack of living things with ghettos, industrial wastelands, and other forms of urban blight. No living things should live where no living things live.
Odd.
@Cerberus Yes!
Interesting.
Certainly.
I didn't think that was possible.
Because we have none.
16:18
Murderer.
Or maybe you just do not see.
Rats and mice survive because they enter houses.
@tchrist Are you going insane?
We do have lots of fish everywhere around the city centre.
There are so many foxes in London that they even have their own clubs.
Why does London have foxes and we don't?
I think only people living near woods or possibly other rural areas have foxes here, like my parents.
In the 1980s, the population of urban foxes in England was estimated to be around 33,000, and it has only exploded from there.
London itself has 10,000 foxes today.
You want a rat problem? Go ahead and drive out your foxes.
I would have expected them to be confined to outlying suburbs, but I guess not.
16:22
I guess for you suburb is not a pejorative.
I only get an academic club when I Google for "amsterdam vos".
@tchrist It kind of is.
I thought it wasn't in your country?
But I was just using it in a purely objective sense, areas that are to some degree considered part of a city, but that are much less dense, and far away from the centre.
If you live along the western edges of Amsterdam, you might be looking at a forest from your front door. So I would expect foxes there.
There will also be gardens and more greenery in general.
16:26
Don’t you have any regular towns, not just cities?
A town is not a “suburb”.
> Foxes have even sneaked into the Houses of Parliament, where one was found asleep on a filing cabinet. Another broke into the grounds of Buckingham Palace, reportedly killing some of Queen Elizabeth II's prized pink flamingos.
I love my foxes here. They are delightful to regard.
@tchrist Certainly, tons.
@tchrist Aww that's cute.
yep foxes in cities, nothing rare
We have cats? Do they count as wild animals?
cats counts as fox food
Also deer 'rådjur' Capreolus capreolus is not uncommon in cities
There are lots of foxes where my parents live, but they never seem to eat cats.
@Cerberus See feral.
Cats are feral!
Look, if you were a fox, would you really want to attack a cat?
Feral cats are by definition cats who’ve gone wild.
16:29
@Cerberus I would not trust the fox to play nice
@Cerberus No.
Even if you won in the end, you would be badly hurt by the cat's claws and teeth.
A kitten, yes. A cat, no.
Fangs, even.
@JohanLarsson Would you trust the cat to play nice?
To be an even battle between a canine and a feline, the canine must outweigh the feline by 3:1.
16:30
A kitten, sure.
@Cerberus no I don't like cats much
A fox is 8–10 pounds.
Many cats are larger than that.
The fox would only attack if the cat were sleeping, and even then, probably not.
Even? But does it have to be even? Winning is not enough: you need to win without major injuries.
@JohanLarsson Freak.
@Cerberus they were. In 1944. When the plane was introduced.
{| |} The Messerschmitt Me 262 Schwalbe (English: "Swallow") was the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft. Design work started before World War II began but engine problems prevented the aircraft from attaining operational status with the Luftwaffe until mid-1944. Compared with Allied fighters of its day, including the British jet-powered Gloster Meteor, it was much faster and better armed. One of the most advanced aviation designs in operational use during World War II, the Me 262 was used in a variety of roles, including light bomber, reconnaissance and even experimen...
16:31
@JohanLarsson faints
@Cerberus Exactly. Predators never go for even odds.
Foxes are clever and have other targets.
Only in '44?
I thought they used Messerschmitts all through the war? Hmm...
> Do foxes attack cats? As a generalization the answer is no. The cat is a very fast and very skilled hunter, while a fox is more comparable to a dog in speed and agility, and a healthy cat has very sharp claws A fox might have a go at a young kitten or a sick cat, but it is probably a fact that more young foxes are killed by cats, than cats are killed by foxes.
@tchrist Yeah, so what is "even" you meant?
16:32
@Cerberus 50–50 odds of winning.
@tchrist ok maybe I was wrong, gonna look for counter source
Europeans have a lot of evil myths about foxes.
Just like with Jews.
It is a problem.
Or gypsies.
Wolves kill dogs, that happens a lot here, pretty even odds if just comparing weight
They probably had it coming.
> The four-week-old baby was reportedly dragged from his cot by the animal on Wednesday afternoon. His mother told how she had heard her son screaming, rushed in and found the fox's teeth clenched around his hand.
Nice.
@tchrist Did you read my reply?
16:34
Urban foxes are not afraid of humans.
3 mins ago, by Cerberus
Even? But does it have to be even? Winning is not enough: you need to win without major injuries.
A fox just is not going to attack a cat and risk injury.
I don't understand why you say "even".
@AndrewLeach Well, they’re still wary enough.
It's not about being even.
16:35
Foxes carry off things like muskrats.
Which don’t put up much of a fight.
@tchrist Swedish fox 5-8 kg, current record 15 kg
@KitFox do you kill cats?
@JohanLarsson Not anymore.
thought we should get it from the source
Cats can be vicious adversaries, if they deem the fight worth the trouble. Saving their own hides certain is!
16:37
I have a completely off-topic question.
More off-topic than foxes?
A bit.
What is up with college library classification?
Under normal Dewey Decimal circumstances, one would find copywriting books around 659. At my college library, they're in HF 5978 or something.
@AndrewLeach haha
> The red fox (Vulpes vulpes) is the most common of the foxes native to North America. In North America the red fox weighs about 8 to 15 pounds, with males on average 2 pounds heavier than females.
16:40
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Looks like Library of Congress classifications.
@AndrewLeach thanks for putting a name on it. I will investigate.
Subclass HF: Commerce is a classification used by the Library of Congress Classification system under Class H -- Social Sciences. This article describes subclass HF. HF :1-6182..........Commerce ::294-343.......... Boards of trade. Chambers of commerce. Merchants' associations ::1014..........Balance of trade ::1021-1027..........Commercial geography. Economic geography ::1040-1054.......... Commodities. Commercial products ::1701-2701..........Tariff. Free trade. Protectionism ::3000-4055..........By region or country ::5001-6182..........Business :::5381-5386..........Vocational Guidan...
> Gray foxes (Urocyon cinereoargenteus) weigh 7 to 13 pounds and measure 32 to 45 inches from the nose to the tip of the tail (Fig. 1). Other species of foxes present in North America are the Arctic fox, swift fox, and kit fox. These animals are not usually associated with livestock and poultry depredation because they typically eat small rodents and lead a secretive life in remote habitats away from people, although they may cause site-specific damage problems.
@Andrew If a war erupts, please flag it and I'll lock the question.
Urocyon is arboreal, but Vulpes is not.
16:41
@tchrist Swedish wiki also vulpes "A male weighs around 8 kg and a female 6,5 kg"
@KitFox Do you climb trees?
@JohanLarsson Stop feeding them. Ours never get that big.
@tchrist Not often.
Foxes are little guys.
@tchrist tell that to the cat owners (I had trouble finding sources, probably not very common)
> Foxes are opportunists, feeding mostly on rabbits, mice, bird eggs, insects, and native fruits. Foxes usually kill animals smaller than a rabbit, although fawns, pigs, kids, lambs, and poultry are sometimes taken. The fox’s keen hearing, vision, and sense of smell aid in detecting prey. Foxes stalk even the smallest mice with skill and patience. The stalk usually ends with a sudden pounce onto the prey. Red foxes sometimes kill more than they can eat and bury food in caches for later use.
I guess it’s the kids that bother people so much.
16:44
they eat berries a lot in the summer, like bears
> Foxes usually kill animals smaller than a rabbit
Like muskrats.
Not muskoxen.
I was probably mostly wrong, not common that that attack cats. I would not trust 'em though
> The swift fox (Vulpes velox) is considered the smallest canid in North America. Weighing between 4-6 pounds, these graceful carnivores are the size of a typical house cat. More commonly known red and gray foxes are considerably larger, weighing 6.5-11 pounds.
> Swift foxes are similar in appearance to their close relatives, kit foxes, except they have smaller ears and a broader skull. Unlike many canids, the swift fox is almost completely nocturnal and hunts continually from dusk to dawn. Swift foxes prey on small mammals such as mice, rats, squirrels, and rabbits. Other prey items include birds, reptiles, amphibians, insects, and occasionally vegetation.
We have like five kinds of foxes.
we have two and one is very rare, the one that goes white in winter is rare
But nobody thinks of a 6.5–11 pound critter as a dangerous beast, just a resourceful one.
The coyotes do make people nervous, though. Well, and the wolves if you are lucky.
Coyotes weigh 15–45 pounds.
The ones by me are toward the bottom end of that most of the time.
The ones way up north are bigger.
16:50
@tchrist like our foxes then, would you trust them with your cat?
Coyotes eat cats. They’re actually prairie wolves, so to speak.
> Coyotes are presently the most abundant livestock predators in western North America, causing the majority of sheep, goat and cattle losses.
It is not a matter of “trust”.
I have coyotes in my neighborhood. See them 50 feet from my back door. My outdoor cat is 21 years old. He just isn’t dumb enough to get eaten.
> Scat analysis collected near Claremont, California revealed that coyotes relied heavily on pets as a food source in winter and spring.[63] At one location in Southern California, coyotes began relying on a colony of feral cats as a food source. Over time, the coyotes killed most of the cats, and then continued to eat the cat food placed daily at the colony site by people who were maintaining the cat colony.
Cats here just don’t care all that much about foxes. They note them, but do not cower. They are much more careful with coyotes. Well, either careful or consumed.
Why do people keep saying things are the OED that aren’t?
0
A: Question about likely vulgar expressions

TrevorDAlso from a UK perspective: screw up I don't regard this as at all offensive, merely informal. Chambers (http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/) has: screw-up noun, slang 1 a disastrous occurrence or failure. 2 a person who has messed up (their life, etc). I would say that the first meaning is...

Nice kitty.
Nice kit.

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