English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

17:00

Problem-solving has always been second-nature to me. It's part of my inner engineer.

So to take the time to try to think about how I figure things out and then explain that to a little person is a real challenge.

Especially when half the time, my brain says "it just looks like the kind of place I'd hide something."

Johan Larsson

@KitFox I can imagine

RegDwighт

-2

Q: What is the plural of the plural "details"?

What is the plural of the plural "Details"? is "Detailses" correct? I want to pluralize itemDetails. Note: This is a programing variable and is grammatically correct with reference to the use of camel-case without spaces. I wish to name a lists of itemDetails using a pluralized form as opposed...

I went with GR at first, then changed my mind to NARQ. Any objections?

I feel like I'm missing something.

KitFox

Well, he got schooled.

I think NARQ is more appropriate.

RegDwighт

I have no idea what he's after.

KitFox

Or Off-Topic.

Is there such a thing as a plural of a plural?

RegDwighт

17:03

Of course not.

Johan Larsson

list of lists of things? sounds like a db guy

KitFox

I suppose that could be a real question related to the English language.

RegDwighт

@KitFox right. Naming programming variables.

KitFox

@RegDwighт Yeah.

Name it whatever you want.

But I think theoretically a question about plural plurals maybe could work.

But not for the purposes of just naming something.

Johan Larsson

help him editing the question? I would be interested in reading the answer

or answer it here :D

RegDwighт

17:05

The answer to what? I still don't understand.

There is no answer other than there's detail, and there's details, and there's no detailses. This is common knowledge.

Johan Larsson

Collections of details?

RegDwighт

That's not a plural of a plural.

Johan Larsson

in a way maybe, but it also suggests there is nesting or other structure

RegDwighт

@KitFox yeah I think there must be something like that, but it's hard to think of examples. Your best shot is checking stuff like scissors or pants or glasses, but we all know what the plurals of those are.

@JohanLarsson that is syntax. Not morphology.

Johan Larsson

ok I wont argue (cos I suck :)

RegDwighт

17:09

Haha.

KitFox

@RegDwighт I agree, and I don't really want to expend effort on it right now.

RegDwighт

@JohanLarsson Never prevented me from arguing.

KitFox

I feel like I'm stuck on superbitch today. Any ideas to help me adjust my attitude?

Johan Larsson

Just stop, cold turkey

RegDwighт

In which direction? Supergirl or superevilbitch?

KitFox

17:12

In the nice direction.

RegDwighт

It would have been helpful if some one mentioned "But please, don’t ask any questions about the following topics. They are out of scope for this site. ... Naming, including naming programming variables/classes" from the FAQ. — Mike Rylander 6 mins ago

user19161

I decided to come back to SE for fun!

user19161

Hey @kitfox! I changed my email address, I will email you again!

Johan Larsson

> Watch your thoughts, they become words. Watch your words, they become actions. Watch your actions, they become habits. Watch your habits, they become your character. Watch your character, it becomes your destiny. — F. Outlaw

might apply ^

Matt Эллен

It'sa Jasper Loy!

KitFox

17:15

@JasperLoy How do I know it's really you?

@RegDwighт tries to restrain bitchery

user19161

@KitFox I will email you now with some secrets! Yes, be careful, someone tried to impersonate me on math, lol.

KitFox

Where is my g-deasley sanding sponge?

Matt Эллен

checks pockets

sorry, I've not seen it

KitFox

I need to chill out.

user19161

@kitfox Done! I just emailed you with my new address...

KitFox

17:21

I am getting worked up and my husband is becoming the target of my ire, which is completely unfair because he hasn't even done anything.

Matt Эллен

go for a run?

Johan Larsson

@KitFox don't ever do that, I broke up with my ex because of that

KitFox

I'm not that kind of girl. It's irritating when I can't contain myself.

I can't go for a run, I've got the boys with me, but something physical is a good idea.

Johan Larsson

All women are that kind of girl to some extent ime :D (maybe all men too)

user19161

Guys, my new email is jasperloy at ymail dot com.

user19161

17:24

And yes, beware of imposters.

Cerberus

Ymail?

user19161

Yahoo has yahoo.com, ymail.com and rocketmail.com.

KitFox

@JohanLarsson It's not unusual to focus negative feelings on partners, since they are loving and supportive and absorb shit usually. Like paper towels, but not disposable. So I guess more like chamois cloths. Or nice linens.

Or underpants.

Anyway, I strive to be rational and not treat my partner unfairly. So I need to get my head straight.

I seem to be having a hard time of it today. I'm not sure why.

Johan Larsson

yeah but naver shit in your nice linens

KitFox

Or in your spaghetti.

Johan Larsson

17:28

probably solid advice

KitFox

Mar 14 '12 at 19:16, by JSBᾶngs

@Meysam yep. "I shit in your spaghetti." (Note: do not shit in people's spaghetti)

I got it from @JSB.

Matt Эллен

especially spaghetti, because that might look like bolognese

Mitch

@KitFox "Honey, for Mother's day, I got you some nice linens because I don't want to replace you just have you go through some nice dry cleaning once in a while. (the kids got you some underwear. So cute!)"

user19161

@matt Boo!

Matt Эллен

hi @JasperLoy :)

Mitch

17:32

Anyway, he'd probably be a jerk if you'd just give him a chance. Also he's probably thinking bad thoughts that he's not telling you. Thoughts like "Why can't she put her shoes away, goddammit!"

user19161

Maybe I should open a new account on ELU as well, lol.

Mitch

@MattЭллен you have just made spaghetti that little bit less appetizing to me. Thanks.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch anytime.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson Holy shit, I'm fucked. The only thing saving me is that I'm lazy. Sorta breaks the chain right in the middle.

KitFox

No, I should say and think about the nice things that I like about my husband. I bet that would change my mood.

Matt Эллен

17:35

yeah!

Johan Larsson

@Mitch haha, it is a nice quote though think there is some truth to it

user19161

Haha, the database still has my ymail address so I got 100 bonus already on ELU!

Mitch

@JasperLoy yay, points!

user19161

I think when they delete my account, even if they wanna keep the votes, they should purge it so that a new person with the same old address will be considered a new person.

user19161

Because, you see, old emails are recycled, though not so soon.

user19161

17:38

For example, maybe after a year, the same address can be reused by another person.

Matt Эллен

well, did you associate it with your math.se account?

Mitch

email address recycling. very energy efficient.

user19161

@MattЭллен Yes, but I don't have 100 there yet, lol.

Matt Эллен

oh! right

user19161

This is a BUG...

Mitch

17:40

submit a bug report to meta

Matt Эллен

submit a hug report to meta

hug

Mitch

jinx

Matt Эллен

nojinx

user19161

I will make it a point not to downvote on my new account.

Mitch

double meta jinx

only positives.

Matt Эллен

17:41

triple feta jinx. no backsies

Mitch

I've noticed that one can rack up a lot of rep by just editing things. 2 pts here and there can add up.

mmm...feta.

Johan Larsson

@JasperLoy I have zero downvotes lifetime, write comments suggesting improvements instead

Mitch

For example, Persian Cat has gotten almost all her positive rep from editing.

Johan Larsson

I flagged an answer once, it said "go jump off a bridge" think I flagged it as OT

Mitch

flagging is ok. for a moral outrage.

Matt Эллен

17:46

Robusto

See how you do vs. the sample group on matters of science and religion.

It's hard to believe people are that dumb. The questions are pretty much middle-school level.

JSBձոգչ

perfect score on science. now doing religion.

Matt Эллен

perfect for science! phew

but question 6 was wrong

JSBձոգչ

perfect on religion as well. TAKE THAT, SCIENCE!

Matt Эллен

nano technology deals with everything, but it itself is small

JSBձոգչ

17:54

arguably, the two questions about prayer and/or bible reading in school are questions about constitutional law, not religion

Robusto

I think that most people only know their own religion, which is why a perfect score puts you in the 99th percentile, versus 93rd for science.

The simpler explanation is that people are stupid.

JSBձոգչ

there were more questions about Xianity than anything else, so it was clearly pitched to the home team

(by which i mean, the protestant anglosphere)

Robusto

Also, the questions were in English!

JSBձոգչ

yeah, srsly

not even one in greek or sanskrit

user19161

Now my network profile and chat profile has the same ID as before, lol.

Matt Эллен

17:57

only 12/15 for religion

Robusto

@MattЭллен Loser.

Which hell will you go to when you die?

user19161

@Robusto Depends on what you have done.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto the sexiest one, with lots of cushions

one of my incorrect answers was about US law, which is OK because US law is crazy

Robusto

@MattЭллен Only a foreigner would say that. A real American would say US law is totally fucked up.

KitFox

13/15 in religion.

Robusto

18:02

I guessed at the Great Awakening question because I remembered Jonathan Edwards from my first semester American Lit class. He was the "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" dude, IIRC.

Matt Эллен

I got that one wrong

user19161

@KitFox I hope your ear is OK. My right ear got blocked after I tried to clean it with cotton bud, lol.

Matt Эллен

I chose the middle one

n e way, time to go!

KitFox

I chose Billy Graham, but mostly because I confused John Edwards with Jonathan Edwards.

13/13 on science.

True or false are such stupid kinds of questions.

@JasperLoy Better now.

Robusto

@KitFox That's true.

Or is it?

KitFox

18:06

sighs, goes back to sanding walls

Difference is, knowing the science things is useful. Knowing the history of religion, not so much.

Although I did feel smug that so many people got the "do unto others" is not a commandment wrong.

RegDwighт

> According to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court, is a public school teacher permitted to lead a class in prayer, or not?

How the f am I supposed to know.

That's not a question about religion. That's a question about US politics.

user19161

I need to raise a meta post now on why I got the association bonus, and on one site but not the other, lol.

user19161

@RegDwighт Nice new picture!

RegDwighт

12/15 on religion. Had to guess on the last half. Never heard of the First Great Awakening. Sounds like some overseas rubbish.

13/13 on science.

The hardest question on the science quiz was whether I went to college or high school.

Robusto

Good thing they didn't ask if you were gay.

RegDwighт

18:13

I keep confusing the two, and technically I never went to either.

BBL dinner.

user19161

18:25

I am happy that I can start all over with my new account, yay!

KitFox

Welcome back.

user19161

Only that it is not really a new account to the system.

user19161

Perhaps using a totally brand new email would have done the trick.

user19161

Or perhaps the IP is involved, dunno.

user19161

This is a real bug...

RegDwighт

18:34

Why?

@JasperLoy yeah I don't get it. Is this your way of never casting more than X votes? Casting X votes, then deleting your account, then casting X votes again?

user19161

@RegDwighт You know, I am a little sad that the system is not treating it as a BRAND NEW ACCOUNT. Maybe I should delete it again and do it the RIGHT way, lol.

RegDwighт

Well you tell me, you're the expert in all things deletion.

user19161

We need to ask Jeff for the answer, lol.

RegDwighт

Perhaps you should also call yourself Mariah Carey next time, so nobody can guess who you really are.

user19161

I am not sure who I am now actually.

user19161

18:38

I need to find myself again.

RegDwighт

Look under the sofa.

KitFox

Or on top of the cabinets.

Did you find a spot for the airplane?

user19161

No airplane for now, lol.

user19161

I am going to think of a new avatar.

user19161

By the way, note that one cannot delete a wordpress or gravatar account!

KitFox

18:46

Outside play time! Later!

Robusto

@RegDwighт I totally would guess Jasper if I saw a Mariah Carey screen name.

Cerberus

> Science and Technology Knowledge Quiz Results - You answered 13 of 13 questions correctly.

Stupid quiz.

I'm not a scientist.

Who is "Joseph Smith"? That must be a rather common name.

Wait, wasn't he that creepy Mormon?

JSBձոգչ

19:01

the creepy mormon

as in, the one who made all the mormons

Cerberus

Haha.

Then I guessed that one right. I only remembered from a Sherlock Holmes novel.

I have no idea about American law.

And "First Great Awakening", never heard of that. Must be another American thing.

> You answered 14 out of 15 questions correctly

I'm good at M/C.

> 10. According to rulings by the U.S. Supreme Court, is a public school teacher permitted to lead a class in prayer, or not?

Got this one wrong.

JSBձոգչ

yeah, first great awakening was an american thing

big religious movement in the late 18th century

Jonathan Edwards is the big name there

Cerberus

Is that why your country is still religious?

JSBձոգչ

Charles Finney (another option for that Q) was the Second Great Awakening

@Cerberus no. there are plenty of other reasons.

Cerberus

But then the question becomes, why did the FGA happen?

JSBձոգչ

19:06

honestly, i don't think that the FGA is really a good explanation for anything at this point

Cerberus

Hmm is there consensus about any reasons?

JSBձոգչ

reasons for what? current american religiosity or the Great Awakenings?

Cerberus

The former.

JSBձոգչ

i actually don't know. i'm sure lots of ideas have been floated.

it should be pointed out that religiosity is the human norm

Cerberus

We had a bit of a religious réveil in the 19th century, but it petered out by the end of the century.

JSBձոգչ

19:07

the better question is why europe is so irreligious

i would guess that the absence of an american state church was a major contributor to continuing religiosity

Cerberus

Well, in many ways people became less and less religious as they became richer, if you look at the period after, say, the year 1000.

With some remarkable peaks, of course.

@JSBձոգչ Hmm why do you think that was important?

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus all of the large established churches went through a similar period of decline in the 19th and 20th centuries

including the largest american churches

Cerberus

Holland has always been more tolerant and diverse when it came to religion than neighbouring countries, and yet we have very low religiosity.

JSBձոգչ

however, the largest american churches were a much smaller portion of the total churchgoers

Cerberus

It is true that our smallest sects are the most conservative.

JSBձոգչ

19:11

the decline of american presbyterians, episcopalians, etc. is pretty similar to the decline of their sister churches in europe

but the numbers are kept high by the baptists, pentecostals, etc.

Cerberus

But...what is the cause, what the effect?

Did the more conservative, more orthodox people join the smaller churches?

It seems to have been that way here, at least for Protestants.

JSBձոգչ

yes? this has been argued over and over

it's more accurate to say that the cultural trends leading to the decline of american mainline denoms never affected the smaller churches much to begin with

and the mainlines have never been quite so all-encompassing in america as the established churches in europe were

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ How can you know that?

@JSBձոգչ How do you mean?

JSBձոգչ

that's pretty well documented

@Cerberus america was pretty much founded by "dissenters", who were cut off from the large institutional churches. the dominant religious model in america has always been lots of small, mostly independent churches with relatively little institutional structure

Cerberus

I mean, were people in smaller churches just saved from the general trend, or was the decline of the larger churches partly caused by people who left larger churches to join smaller ones?

JSBձոգչ

19:14

@Cerberus a little bit of both

Cerberus

Right.

Even so, many smaller churches are dying as well.

At least here.

Actually, it is only the most conservative churches that are declining more slowly here; the size of the church may be accidental.

JSBձոգչ

still, i think the real question is why europe is so irreligious. historically and in comparison with most of the globe, america is normal. europe is the weird one.

@Cerberus this is largely true here.

Cerberus

But you can see people become less religious as they get richer all around the world, on average.

JSBձոգչ

theological conservativism, devotional seriousness of the members, and resistance to decline are all positively correlated

Cerberus

Yes, apparently.

JSBձոգչ

19:18

@Cerberus i'm not certain that's always true. and there may be a hidden variable here

Cerberus

Yeah there are many variables.

But not many atheists are ever reconverted.

Compared to the other way around.

JSBձոգչ

the hidden variable i'm thinking of is western modernism

becoming "rich" is often a matter of adopting western styles and attitudes, including religiosity

Cerberus

As to Europe being an exception: Europe has rarely, if ever, followed trends that originated elsewhere, while things often happen the other way around, at least on some level.

And religion has seen steady decline in America too.

JSBձոգչ

if the richest countries in the world were all very religious, then becoming rich might be correlated with adopting religion

and actually, we have historical examples of this

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ I don't know, I don't think the link is accidental.

@JSBձոգչ Yeah, I don't think that is the case here.

JSBձոգչ

19:22

early medieval europe was characterized by barbarian tribes settling down, becoming civilized, and adopting christianity

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Sure, it's not always that way. There are many variables.

JSBձոգչ

not b/c civilization in intrinsically christian, but because the existing civilization was christian

Cerberus

Yes, well, that is one factor.

Another is that certain forms of culture just procreate better. Polytheism has always been very weak.

JSBձոգչ

hinduism has been pretty resilient

Cerberus

Animism < polytheism < monotheism, when it comes to natural selection.

Robusto

19:24

I'm not so sure.

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Yes, there are other variables.

Robusto

India and China both have no monotheism for the most part.

Cerberus

But, if anything, the monotheist religions have encroached on polytheism, rarely the other way around.

JSBձոգչ

also, polytheism has a way of reasserting itself. christianity, islam, and buddhism all have incorporated a kind of polytheistic practice through the veneration of the saints

Cerberus

Sure.

Robusto

19:25

Not islam.

Carlo_R.

Gli europei adottarono il Cristianesimo perche' non avevano altre opzioni, a parte il paganesimo.

JSBձոգչ

yes islam

but you don't hear about it much

Cerberus

Just as European irreligion is very Christian in many ways.

user19161

Hi @carlo!

Robusto

Who are the islamic saints?

Cerberus

19:25

@Robusto Sufi saints?

user19161

@Robusto The Prophets?

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus i actually think that Atheism : Christianity :: Christianity : Judaism

Cerberus

@Robusto Jinx.

JSBձոգչ

@Cerberus no jink. i was agreeing with you

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ In what way? Chronologically, yes.

Carlo_R.

19:26

Hi @JasperLoy how are you? I asked to kit of you and she tell me you have destroied your account.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto give me a second to google

user19161

@Carlo_R. Yes, this is my new account. Beware of imposters! I remember you had grandchildren!

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Haha, I was just disagreeing with Robusto, but he and I both came up with Islamic saints.

@JasperLoy Who are you anyway, Mr Imposter?

user19161

@Cerberus Well, it depends on your definition of saints isn't it? Isn't saints just sth he just coined?

Carlo_R.

@Jas, yes, I'm happy to hear from you. I have three grandchildren.

Cerberus

19:29

@JasperLoy Uh what?

Carlo_R.

I santi della religione cristiana hanno la stessa funzione che gli dei hanno nel paganesimo.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto okay, so there are lots of mazar throughout the islamic world.

user19161

@Cerberus Exactly what I said. He just used the term saints in a number of religions so one can define it in anyway one chooses.

JSBձոգչ

i'm trying to find a link for the mazar i went to, but can't

Cerberus

@JasperLoy Sure.

JSBձոգչ

19:30

anyway, the mazar is effectively identical to a catholic saint's shrine

the reason why we see less of this is our perception of islam is heavily colored by the Wahhabi and other sects who are "protestant" and reject the veneration of the saints

Robusto

@JSBձոգչ But they don't treat them the same way as the Christians (especially Catholics) do saints, do they? Do they actually pray to a mazar as if it were some demigod?

Carlo_R.

@Jasper, yes, saints do not exist.

JSBձոգչ

@Robusto not to the mazar, but to the saint. absolutely.

@Robusto here's a site with some islamic relics for you: khwajagharibnawaz.net/AJMERCHISHTY.htm

Carlo_R.

What is the "mazar"?

Cerberus

@Rob Read up on Timbuktu.

I have to go.

Interesting conversation.

Later!

Carlo_R.

19:32

@Cerb, later!

Robusto

yeah, no offense, but I have reached my tolerance level for saints of any religion. Plus I need to finish something before I go home. Later.

Cerberus

@Carlo_R. Bye!

Carlo_R.

@Robus, later and agree!

@Jasper, are you still jobless? In Europe the number of jobless is growing.

@JSBձոգչ I have heard that you are from Romanian. Do you?

JSBձոգչ

@Carlo_R. I don't, but my wife does

user19161

@Carlo_R. Yes, but it is largely because I am sick. I am taking a long break to recover...

Carlo_R.

19:39

@Jasp, what recover you have had. Earth attak?

user19161

@Carlo_R. Ah, that is my secret!

Carlo_R.

Some year ago, about 1972, I also have a recover for a long time.

In fact, during my work on construction, I fall from an high place.

And I was fractured for a long time.

My wife says that I no longer became the same person I was before.

@JSB, are you christian because your culture or because your choice?

@Jasp, after the fracutured time I have done a lot of effertos to became normally.

user19161

@Carlo_R. Some things can never be the same again...

Carlo_R.

@Jasp, yes, I agree. Life is like a river. The same atom don't go twice trough the same place.

@Jasp, however these things are fully compehensible only after 70 years old.

user19161

@Carlo_R. Yeah, though some people realise some things pretty early.

Carlo_R.

19:49

Just when the life has passed.

Yes, you are right. But in Western world this doesn't happen very often.

We have all the things we need.

I think to African or South American people, for example.

@Jasper, could you help me to write a letter to Cartaino so he can consider that the commit phase should be reduced to 100 users?

user19161

@Carlo_R. I think you can write it yourself. Your English is understandable.

Carlo_R.

@Jasper, If I don't remind wrong you live near NZ. Do you?

Singapore, right?

user19161

Yes.

Carlo_R.

How is the everyday life in Singapore?

user19161

I rather not talk about it.

Carlo_R.

19:58

@Jasp, I agree. In fact I also don't want to talk about Italian life.

user19161

@Carlo_R. Haha. I like spaghetti carbonara...

Carlo_R.

@Jasp, I too.

But I have a question.

Can people of same sex married in Singapore. I have heard tha in NZ it will be legal from the next 19 August.

user19161

@Carlo_R. No. There is even a law forbidding gay sex here, lol.

Carlo_R.

@Jasp, in Italy too, but in France it is legal now.

So, maybe, it will be legal in Italy early.

user19161

I am not gay, but I don't like people who don't like gays.

Carlo_R.

20:04

@Jasp, I agree.

@Jasp, I like to chat with with you, but now I have to eat. So I great hello you and I hope to see you later :)

user19161

@Carlo_R. OK.

Carlo_R.

21:04

Hi!

MετάEd

21:52

I have been changing my picture to reflect holidays.

Next week is National Clitoris Awareness Week.

Brace yourselves.

Johan Larsson

22:46

is the fist a worker thing?

MετάEd

22:59

@JohanLarsson Solidarność!

Matt Эллен

@MετάEd braces himself

Cerberus

23:15

Yooo!

@MετάEd That's very...interesting.

I shall keep it in mind.

MετάEd

23:26

Care for a preview?

Cerberus

Yay!

I'm drunk anyway, so bring on the clitorides (or is it clitores?)!

MετάEd

Did that work?

Cerberus

Not what I expected.

user19161

@MετάEd OMG!

MετάEd

It's kind of glorious, isn't it.

Cerberus

23:32

@MετάEd Looks more like a small penis...oh, wait...

user19161

By the way, I am really waiting for TPTB to answer my meta question.

user19161

I think it is a big flaw in the system.

Cerberus

Ladieda!

user19161

@Cerberus Can't be.

Cerberus

Right.

user19161

23:38

It looks more like a bunch of chillies, lol.

user19161

Hey @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 this is my new account, lol.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

new account?

user19161

I deleted my old one long ago...

user19161

That's why I have almost 0 rep now you see.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

what for?

user19161

23:42

For fun.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

you have a strange idea of fun

user19161

Wow, you got a star.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hey! That's what I was going to say!

And I didn't even star that!

user19161

Who's playing with the stars?

Cerberus

Ohh I was going to say something about Android phones to Mr Shiny, but I forgot.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

23:54

I didn't star it either

Cerberus

No shit.

Less than 20 minutes ago, I was talking to this guy who insisted that Opera Mini on his old Ericsson was fine, and he really didn't need a smartphone.

He is a bit of a computer nerd, so I felt free to counter him.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

guess he has simple needs

my old ericsson was fine too, when all I expected it to do was what it did when I bought it.

Cerberus

He said, "I can use any website, and Google Maps, everything!".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

mmhm

for some definitions of "any" and "use"

Cerberus

I told him I was using Opera Mini on my ancient phone until last summer, when I got mah Android.

And that it was so much better.

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