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13:00
I’ve never heard the -x pronounced there the way we pronounce it in tax.
But that doesn’t mean it has to be a throat-clearing Bach either.
Even some do attempt that.
> A large species of tarantula, roughly the size of an adult human face, has been discovered in Sri Lanka. And while the venom of the Poecilotheria rajaei is not lethal to humans, there’s little doubt the abnormal size of the spider could be disturbing, even to those not afflicted with arachnophobia. The spider’s leg span is a reported 8 inches, with researchers comparing its circumference with the size of a dinner plate. It's covered in a variety of colors, including pink, yellow and gray.
They’ve named it Poecilotheria rajaei.
@tchrist: fax?
@Jez: or a aux in
@JourneymanGeek No, no. I mean that the x in LaTeX I’ve never heard said like the one in tax.
ahhh
k
I missed some context somewhere. Ontology does that to people :/
I have a temporary burning hatred of protege ;p
13:08
I hate “ontology”!!!
Hate hate hate.
Jez
Jez
it's very simple
Pro-Existence: Why Has Rick Santorum Emerged?
Jez
Jez
you know that you must exist, and there is debate as to whether you can know logical and mathematical assertions to be true (I would say yes, some would say no). then there is nothing else you can know.
that's it.
These are not the ontologies you’re not looking for.
Jez
Jez
"the branch of metaphysics that studies the nature of existence or being as such. "
13:13
In computer science and information science, an ontology formally represents knowledge as a set of concepts within a domain, and the relationships between pairs of concepts. It can be used to model a domain and support reasoning about entities. In theory, an ontology is a "formal, explicit specification of a shared conceptualisation". An ontology renders shared vocabulary and taxonomy which models a domain with the definition of objects/concepts, as well as their properties and relations. Ontologies are the structural frameworks for organizing information and are used in artificial int...
Thems da ones I hates.
See what I mean?
Jez
Jez
yeah
i wonder what the probability is of correctly guessing every mine in Minesweeper
256 * 255 * 254 etc
no that aint right
it depends on the number of mines
14:04
@KitFox hugs
@KitFox my condolences.
@KitFox I’m so sorry.
@KitFox I'm sorry, Kit.
Seriously, am I the only one who thinks Google's wish to let Chrome access my phone's camera and audio recording anytime it wants without my permission is creepy as hell?
No. But what's wrong with Browser?
14:20
That's what I went back to. But it won't even let me uninstall Chrome.
Didn't Microsoft get in trouble for linking browser with OS back when?
@KitFox I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope you're all doing alright.
@Robusto not even through ADB?
I knew I would someday find a place to wedge in these wonderful words:
0
A: How to refer to the "elevated areas" of a mountain?

tchristRidge and hill seem to be the respective answers, at least according to the Army Study Guide, which uses a sketch of a human hand to identify different terrain features: They there define a hill as a point or small area of high ground. When you are on a hilltop, the ground slopes down in ...

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Haven't tried that.
I don't trust Google anymore. And I don't trust Apple either. Could I be (gasp) headed toward a Windows phone? shudder
@Robusto What phone do you have that you can't uninstall Chrome? Is it new?
Most phones you can uninstall it.
Chrome probably wants access to your camera for in-browser web-conferencing features.
like web RTS
@Robusto Depending on your phone you could maybe install CyanogenMod on it and get rid of the Google properties; just use the open-source parts.
14:45
Also @Robusto if you root your phone you can uninstall system apps. That can lead to malfunctions though if you uninstall something important.
15:02
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 All good points. Not ready for the headaches of rooting yet. Still, if all it wants is permission for WebRTS, why does it specifically grant access to my camera and audio whenever it wants and without my ability to monitor or override it?
@Robusto The Android security model is limited in that way.
The app needs permission from the OS to be able to access it at all.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 *Android insecurity model
Once it has that access, it's all or nothing. It's up to the app to behave. All apps which use the camera are like that.
@Robusto Well.... yeah. It's not perfect. It'd be better if they had made it, from the start, a requirement that users can withdraw permissions at any time.
But they didn't, and apps tend to crash when their expected permissions are missing.
Yeah. Catch-22.
It's the thin edge of the wedge.
If it makes you feel any better, there are already lots of google apps on your device which can take your picture or record audio. So one more probably isn't hurting you.
15:06
The Death of a Thousand Cuts.
That's one way to look at it. Or else you can decided that you trust Google and allow Chrome to access your camera, even if you don't necessarily trust other apps or other vendors. FWIW Chrome on your desktop can do this too and you have no security there either.
One problem that isn't addressed by vendor trustworthiness is the security of the app itself. I don't find it creepy that Chrome can access my camera. But I do find it worrying that Chrome is specifically doing so to allow third parties (web sites) to access my camera, and I wonder how well they've protected me against websites doing that surreptitiously.
If you root your phone you can get an app that lets you withdraw permissions from other apps. Cerb has one and uses it.
The problem is, I don't trust Google. Google works for its advertisers, not for me. If you're not paying money for a product, you are the product being sold.
Don't Be Evil
@Robusto Well, you paid for your android phone.
@Robusto Why would you even consider trusting any big company?
It is rather about "is it worth it to give up my x?".
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I paid for the hardware. The software is "open source" (i.e., free).
15:17
I agree that Android's security system is really stupid: it is so easy to just let users allow and block individual permissions! And yet Google failed to implement that. Luckily, Android is open enough to allow you to do that with other applications. You do need root, I believe; but then there is no excuse not to root anyway! Do it!
@Robusto Not exactly. The big phone vendors pay to license android itself.
@Cerberus Note that Android is more secure than typical desktops in this regard.
Absolutely.
But desktops started out as being unsafe from the beginning.
While Android has had regulated application permissions for a long time.
They're all there in a neat list.
There are programs that let you block each of them. Why doesn't let Android do so by default?
The average Mr Stupid doesn't have to block anything. He won't even notice the option is there.
@Cerberus I don't know. Probably for simplicity. Most people don't even understand any of that stuff. Most devs won't code apps to handle error cases when permissions are missing.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 See, this reeks of Apple mentality. I'm sorry, but I have to call bullshit. If people don't understand it, they won't touch it. If they do, it's their own responsibility.
I get error cases. I just either re-allow some permissions or uninstall the applications.
@Cerberus First of all, my 5 years of repairing people's computers taught me that people DO play with stuff they don't understand.
15:22
Then it is their own fault.
@Cerberus One of the goals of most user-experience designers is to prevent situations where the user gets screwed.
If you tell Android "revoke permission for Swype to do x" and then Swype starts crashing, the average person will understand that that's what did it.
@Cerberus No. Many people will not.
They will forget they did that.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Apple mentality. I refuse to listen to this.
@Cerberus haha.
gotta run.
15:23
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 As a consequence, developers will be motivated to not have their applications crash if permissions are denied.
@tchrist You answered -all- geography questions in that one answer. Not fair!
Which is a very good thing.
Bye.
@Cerberus The average Mr. Stupid is using an iPhone, which doesn't even tell him about permissions.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Yay!
Actually, the average Mr Stupid is on Android, because the large majority are on Android.
15:25
@Cerberus not in this godforsaken country.
ah, to be in a country run by scientists
@Robusto they only did that when they absolutely had to. They had search monetization forced on them.
Uh-huh.
I want money searchitization forced on them.
But not for me. I'm not into that.
apparently, if you make a youtube video and click on the monetise button you get 60% of the ad revenue, so a youtube employee told me.
15:28
@Robusto I don't know, and neither do you.
> Android captured almost 70% global smartphone market share in 2012, Apple just under 20%
in a net
they're currently pinning it to be put on display in a museum
@Cerberus celebrates
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Well, there is no reason for Google to consider only a single country.
15:32
> Apple Leads U.S. Smartphone Market, But Android Is Top OS ... Meanwhile, Google's Android once again ranked as the most popular operating system as of February. However, Android's share of the market dropped exactly 2 percent to 51.7 percent. Apple, on the other hand, saw its iOS platform increase 3.9 percent to grab 38.9 percent share.
So Android wins in your country too!
At any rate, do you happen to know how permissions work in IOS?
13 hours ago, by Cerberus
My hypothesis is that IOS grants all permissions to all applications, but that "all" permissions are a very limited set, except for system applications, which get "really all" permissions.
with Apple products you have the permission to buy all their stuff and never complain.
2
I don't know. It just depresses me. I think I may go live in a log cabin.
@Cerberus I don't.
@Robusto go back to a flip phone and carry a 4G netbook.
@MattЭллен Yay!
15:39
it's a privilege I have yet to take up
@Robusto It rather makes me angry. But things like Pdroid again brighten my day.
@MattЭллен What I say to that is this: I would love to pick up an Iphone and crush it against a concrete wall as hard as possible. Does that sound maniacal at all?
a little bit
Oh.
I should practice Apple love, then.
well... I wouldn't go that far :D
OMG I want a piece of white plastic with fragile glass everywhere! That makes me even dumber than I already am!
hides Nexus 4
15:42
soon apple will be selling 4G mirrors
Haha what?
seemed to fit your description :D
Oh haha, the glass!
I thought your meant the vanity.
By the way, did I tell you that your user script works again?
Apparently the site changed something back. Yay!
Surely this is a dupe:
-1
Q: Parenthesis and quotations having punctuation before AND after them

thehwoodI'll have to come up with some examples to show you my question: I know if a sentence is inside either, the punctuation is inside (I also know I use a lot of comma splices. I think of the way the sentences sound in my head and break them up that way.). I'm stumped. Would when I say, "break th...

15:52
Aww our oldest remaining family business has been bought by another company. Founded in 1545, they have been a family business for 468 years. Such a shame.
@tchrist surely news room copy editors -and- all the typesetters know exactly all these picayune rules. probably the rule is "Don't a allow parentheses"
@Mitch I find his question confusing.
@Cerberus liquor? chocolate? diamonds?
@tchrist too much thinkiing involved on our part to figure out what little thinking went on his part.
I'm already tired.
15:58
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Yeah it is a pity.
Exactly.
@Mitch Rope!
@Cerberus huh. a rope manufacturer. what was the cause of dissolution? age of owners/no heirs? the Bolivians cornered the market? Hanging replaced by electrocution?
The family still had some commissioners, although they were no longer in the directorate. But the business was losing money.
@Mitch They were at the end of their rope, obviously.
16:02
Haha, I bet the electrocution thing was a harsh blow!
@Cerberus I guess motorized ships were a much bigger blow.
@MετάEd I don't know...don't those still use ropes?
@Rob Pretty sure that Dingledork just dung me.
@tchrist Call him out on it. You have "secret information," don't you?
@Mitch liquor covered diamond chocolates
16:14
Funny, but I trust Amazon more than I trust Google. Why is that?
Hahahaha.
Amazon.
It appears Germany is the largest country in the world with an AAA rating.
Followed by England, Canada, and Australiar.
larger than Australia?
it looks smaller from space
@MattЭллен Put on your other glasses.
@Robusto Haha wtf?
but they're broken
16:20
@MattЭллен mmmm...with a crunchy center
Climate sceptics = round-earth sceptics?
@Cerberus Well, how do you know the earth isn't flat? If certain American schools are required to teach "creation science" then can the flat earth be far behind?
@MattЭллен Maybe you could try an Australian accent.
@Robusto Oh, that. Yes.
I'm going to this lecture/discussion about evolution (by some dude who wrote a book about Darwin).
16:22
Seriously, is there any other country in the "civilized" world where science is even an issue?
Now I bet he’s makin’ stuff up: :)
0
A: What is word for exactly one clock hour

KrisTechnically, it should be called the boundary hour -- a duration of one clock hour (60 minutes) between consecutive hour boundaries.

Turns out someone I know actually doesn't believe in evolution! I am amazed.
@Robusto I...have to say, probably not at this point.
The Google findeth not his “boundary hour” anywhere nor anywhen.
And now North Carolina wants to establish a "state religion" ... in defiance of the Constitution, because the wording is that [the U.S.] "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion" ...
Erasmus Darwin (12 December 173118 April 1802) was an English physician. One of the key thinkers of the Midlands Enlightenment, he was also a natural philosopher, physiologist, slave trade abolitionist, inventor and poet. His poems included much natural history, including a statement of evolution and the relatedness of all forms of life. He was a member of the Darwin–Wedgwood family, which includes his grandsons Charles Darwin and Francis Galton. Darwin was also a founding member of the Lunar Society of Birmingham, a discussion group of pioneering industrialists and natural philosophers...
16:24
If at first you don't secede, try, try again.
@Cerberus What, they burn them for fuel?
@Robusto A state religion, really? Theodosius did that. It was the beginning of the end of the Empire. Perhaps yours will split up, and the East will survive for another millennium?
@Robusto Wasn’t theirs the flag that has trees on its face?
Dunno.
Oh wait, that was treason.
16:26
@MετάEd Yes. Fuel is the main usage of ropes in seafaring.
1. fuel 2. hanging the captains of conquered vessels 3. tying knots 4. tying up maidens
As to 2, why not have them walk the plank?
that's less scary
Number 3 is very important, though.
you make dissident conquered crew members walk the plank
16:29
Tying knots is their favourite past-time.
but the captain must be left hanging as an example
Really?
I wasn't aware of this convention.
oh, well, it's a hipster pirate convention, you probably haven't heard of it
also, I made it all up
It will probably take ten years to reach me.
0
Q: New Chrome update wants permission to use my camera and audio recording. Should I be concerned?

RobustoSeriously, it specifically states that it can use the camera and audio recording any time it wants, whether or not I wish it to. This sounds like 1984. It sounds like some serious Big Brother stuff. Should I be concerned? Hell, I am concerned. Can someone talk me down? Or is this really a pro...

This would probably get more traction on Reddit.
16:36
Compared to all the other stuff Google already knows about you, it is like being concerned about a particular lava current while being inside a volcano. But, if I were you, I would just root my phone and install something like Permissions Denied or Pdroid. — Cerberus 21 secs ago
I do encourage your questioning this btw.
@Robusto you could cover your front-facing camera with something.
@Reg Apologies for missing the know/knowing dupe from yesterday.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I cover it with my pocket. Still doesn't make me feel better, because sometimes I take it out.
Heh, I'm already getting mod flak on my Chrome question.
16:52
@Robusto well, just be careful where you take it out.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 What, you've never checked a text in the restroom?
@Robusto I don't stand there with it hanging out. I'm sitting on it.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh, so why do you close the stall door then?
@Robusto societal convention.
You'd get pretty indignant if you knew there was a camera in there with you, though, I would bet.
16:59
@Robusto I can't worry about what might be.
Always cover all cameras with black electrical tape as a makeshift lens cap. Only remove it right before you yourself want to take an actual picture, and immediately replace the cap when done. Physical security is paramount, and without it, nothing else matters.
Where is Vitaly now that we really need him.
Mahlzeit!
@Robusto you should post that in

Terrifying Nightmare Monsters

Because the meanies in the Aww! room hate spiders (chat.stacke...
17:14
I know! The surgery took months!
I'd better buy some food, else I will be annoyed with myself tomorrow morning.
17:37
-1
Q: Parenthesis and quotations having punctuation before AND after them

thehwoodI'll have to come up with some examples to show you my question: I know if a sentence is inside either, the punctuation is inside (I also know I use a lot of comma splices. I think of the way the sentences sound in my head and break them up that way.). I'm stumped. Would when I say, "break th...

Dupe. Dupe. Dupe.
0
A: Why does the new Chrome update wants the permission to use my camera and audio recording?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇The Chrome page in the app store says this about the new permissions: This version requests two new permissions, Camera and Modify Audio Settings, to support WebRTC, an experimental feature under development. WebRTC itself is designed to expose your camera and mic to the browser, so that w...

Somebody please help me find it. I have to finish cleaning my house.
7
Q: Where does the question mark go — inside or outside the parentheses?

LunivoreI know that when brackets enclose part of a sentence, the full stop goes outside. I tripped over this morning. I was distracted by a plane (which turned out to be Superman). If it's a full sentence, the full stop goes inside. I tripped over. (I was distracted by a plane that turned out ...

that one?
Does that one have the instance of terminal punctuation, parenthesis, terminal punctuation? I swear we had this same dupe last week.
Is this too mean?
Why must everything be right and wrong? People say them both. Why do you think that someone who says something differently than you do must necessarily be wrong? Also, this question has been asked a lot. See also any English dictionary, not to mention english.stackexchange.com/q/102070 english.stackexchange.com/q/61732 english.stackexchange.com/q/35832 english.stackexchange.com/q/8321tchrist 1 min ago
17:42
@Cerberus The average person doesn't understand the distinction between the phone and the apps. All they know is that, eg, Facebook is crashing on their phone but their friend's Facebook for iPhone never crashes.
7
Q: In which cases is a comma/period placed inside or outside of parentheses?

kiamlalunoAre there cases where a period is placed inside parentheses? In which cases the period (or a comma) should be placed inside the parentheses?

What about that?
@KitFox Good.
I've got to go. Can you guys manage the closing?
I'll pop in later.
Sure.
18:02
in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, 2 mins ago, by Johan Larsson
What is the word for when you sue someone even though you know you are in the wrong but know that the trial etc. will be so expensive that you will break your opponent?
& hi
looks are deceptive in his case, I woke up bleeding twice this week. This morning my forehead indicated he started playing before i woke up :D
kid piraya imo
@JohanLarsson having the upper hand?
18:11
lol, I think there is a word for it that I forgot.
or never knew
18:21
@tchrist I don't even know what question you're talking about. So apologies accepted. Shrug.
@KitFox My condolences.
@MattЭллен Were you made redundant or are you still uniquely necessary?
@Robusto I don't know yet! there are um... 14 people up for redundancy and 7 must go
@tchrist I try to avoid questions in comments. They always have something inflammatory or overbearing to them, even if I don't mean them to. Not just rhetorical questions; all questions. Simply by virtue of ending in a question mark.
Questions also invite responses, even rhetorical ones.
And typically I just want to state my case and never be bothered again.
we have yet to be told who the higher ups have picked
18:33
You mean, not asking questions in comments, or not answering them?
Or not using question marks?
I think we find out the initial plan on Monday, when "consultation" starts
I mean saying "Someone who says something differently than you is not necessarily wrong", for example. Rather than "Why do you think that they must be wrong?"
I read some psychological mumbo-jumbo on that subject a while back. No idea when or where. I just know that I keep rewording until no question marks are left.
16 people, not 14.
18:37
There's something about starting a sentence online with a "why" that immediately makes people sound agitated.
Why would that be?
Why questions are hard to answer.
It assumes that people know why they do things, and they seldom do.
Why can easily masquerade as a where, or a when.
Which puts them in the awkward position of having to make stuff up, or say they are themselves being idiots.
Who are you? how did you get here? When are you leaving?
18:38
And when they make stuff up, they talk themselves into believing it.
This has been studied.
What have I done? What am I doing? What will I do?
Well I guess that's another, additional aspect.
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 unspeakable things
Realistically, it was a rhetorical device, not a legitimate question.
At least, not one I was up for getting an answer to.
Well yes, rhetorical questions are even worse by definition.
But I keep rewording even completely genuine, innocent ones.
18:40
@MattЭллен sorry!
@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 I'm sure you didn't, don't, won't mean it
Yay, I got to link to a nohat answer.
0
A: "Photographic" Pronouns

tchristNo one would ever label a picture “I” or “they” or “we”. That’s because in English we normally use the objective case of the pronoun for that sort of stand-alone thing, as explained in this answer. Therefore the expected situation would be to label something “the kids and me”, or even just “me ...

19
A: "Who wants ice-cream?" — Should I say "(not) I" or "(not) me"?

nohatGenerally speaking, in English, accusative (also known as “objective”) pronouns (like me) are the “default” form. That is, unless there is a specific syntactic rule requiring use of a different case, such as nominative (I), genitive (my/mine), or reflexive/intensive (myself), in English you use t...

@MattЭллен thanks for understanding!
That one deserves a few votes (nohat’s, not mine). And this one of his is getting up towards golden territoire:
93
A: When is it appropriate to end a sentence in a preposition?

nohatA preposition is a perfectly reasonable word to end a sentence with. Admonitions against doing so are not something anyone needs pay heed to. It's the kind of made-up rule that is not based on the reality of the language and anguish over doing it is something no writer need suffer from. And if yo...

@tchrist voted. That might be our parse-html-with-regex.
18:51
We just never get many votes here.
The only common golds are the ones one does nothing for: Famous Question.
@RegDwighт Why are you stirring up trouble?
@Robusto where do you even get that idea from?
Why would I tell you?
Because you are nice, okay?
I am not nice.
18:57
I am not interested in that bit of chit-chat. I asked you something completely different, you know?
I asked you first.
Lord it takes forever for people to actually ask a question.
1
Q: Restrictive and Nonrestrictive Appositives

whippoorwillSee the sentence below. My brother, Frank; my sister, Danielle; and my friend Jake will be going with me to the state fair in August. In England, we would eliminate the semicolons in that sentence and do this: My brother Frank, my sister Danielle, and my friend Jake will be going to the...

@Robusto Not if you go further back.
And I am not wholly convinced that even is one.

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