English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2013-03-13 (page 4 of 4)

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6:00 PM

I don't know how to diagnose the flu.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus At any given point in time you have no useful idea what the weather is in just about any part of the world. Only a vague notion. There is way to much variance to consider trying to pin down "march" as "spring". What about the arctic, or tropics? It would be useless.

It would be useful for 99 % of the world's inhabitants.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

However, when I am flying somewhere and they tell me that I arrive at 9am local time, I at least know what to expect: most people will be starting their days.

@Cerberus How?

Because they have seasons.

Although I must confess tropical seasons are a bit...complicated.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus So what? So it's more useful to try and remember when "March" is in a particular locale, than to try to remember what part of the globe it's in and thus what season?

What possible use is it to you to know that it's spring in Manitoba if you have no idea what springtime temperatures are there?

Season labels are arbitrary anyway

6:02 PM

I will have some idea.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

No, you will have next to no idea. All you know is that it is warmer than whatever passes for winter there.

Because I will know the approximate latitude of the place.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus That's not nearly enough useful information.

Isn't it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Winter in much of Europe is much warmer than winter at the same latititude in Canada because of the Gulf Stream

Winter next to a body of water is very different from winter in a landlocked place.

6:03 PM

You think I do not know this?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My point is that unless you are already familiar with the geography of a particular place, you cannot possibly hope to accurately predict anything about its weather from the "season".

@KitFox tries to figure out how to transfer freshly made coffee through germ barrier

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So a calendar that had seasonal labels instead of arbitrary month labels wouldn't help you.

That's not true.

Winter in southern Australia tells me something.

@KitFox I was thinking of noble.

6:06 PM

I don't get it.

Probably -15 < T < 20.

@KitFox No, no, not abdominal. You're thinking of the chord that starts on IV.

@KitFox Before explosion: abominable. After explosion: noble.

Nope. Still don't get it.

squints

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't see how anyone who knows enough geography to understand something useful about the phrase "winter in southern australia" wouldn't get just as much information about "July in southern australia".

1. I am not in favour of this idea.

2. You are using the type of arguments we used to defend the global-time thing yesterday now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:08 PM

@Cerberus The situation is totally different.

It is somewhat different, yes.

@MετάEd No, no, not subdominant(?), you're thinking of those long metal underwater boats.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Knowing the climate of a place is a completely different proposition from knowing what part of the day it is.

But the kind of arguments you used yesterday could be used to defend this.

@MετάEd No, not subdominant, you're thinking of messages played to people in their sleep.

Drat, not fast enough.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:09 PM

@Cerberus So what? they would be wrong, in this case.

@KitFox No, no, not submarines. You're thinking of slackers.

@aediaλ No, no, not subliminal. You're thinking of when you take vitamin B orally.

Not subliminal, just the thing around your iris.

Damn.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerb have you never asked someone in this chat room "what time is it for you" or some equivalent question?

Scurvy. No. Ack. I can't keep up. shivers

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Always.

6:10 PM

The thing where a solid changes directly to a gas.

@No, no, not sublimation. You're thinking of when you refuse to think of something that bugs you.

No, no, not sublimation, you're thinking of adding two things together.

AH!

spine goes out of whack

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus If there was only global time, how would anyone answer that question? You'd already know what "time" it is for them: the same time as it is for you. Whereas now, if I say "noon", you know what that means. You can also guess where I might be.

I can't get any of the last four.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:15 PM

@KitFox I thought aedia's was subtraction but it says "adding" so... ?

Summation.

Additmation.

But I can't get @MετάEd's either.

@KitFox Hehe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ ah, duh. right.

Ugh. It's on the tip of my tongue.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:18 PM

No no, not summation. you're thinking of that ancient race that invented writing.

Subsume keeps popping in there instead.

Mine was subluxation, by the way.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Now Creole is the only thing i can think of.

No, no, not Sumerian, you're thinking of what Cerb wants to put on the calendar.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I wouldn't ask that question.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ No no, not Summer. You're thinking of the other surviving Stark direwolf.

What use is it anyway, except "fun"?

6:20 PM

Habemus papam.

@RegDwighт I just saw

@RegDwighт Ohh welcome, your Excellency!

Rats. I mean, owls.

Hahaha.

Who is it this time?

No announcement yet

Supposed to be an announcement within the hour

6:21 PM

OK.

Just the smoke then?

I can't see the smoke signals from here.

Supplement! Was that it @MετάEd?

And maybe suppress?

Yeah, white smoke only now

By the way, I bet it is Scola.

Or whatever his name was.

6:23 PM

Scalia? No way!

I had no idea he was Catholic.

They elected a scalene triangle?

The judge?

I'd bet on it being what's his name. Who else?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Anyway, my last statement on timezones is this: when dealing with local matters, local time is better. when coordinating inter-time-zone events, some kind of universal coordinated time is better. And we have one of those. It's UTC. And 99.99% of the time one never needs to worry about it because one usually deals locally with local matters. It doesn't matter to me what time a store is open in Moscow, it matters that I have to pick up my daughter from daycare by 6pm.

Of course a triangle, what with the Trinity. It makes perfect sense.

6:24 PM

Well, they were considering Thingamabob too...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Triangleman for pope!

The African guy.

Haha.

Surely not Whatchamacallit.

He wouldn't be the first African, if he were elected

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I don't agree with the last half, but the first half is true.

@simchona Was Augustine ever Bishop of Rome?

Must have been an early pope, then.

Earlier than ca. 700 AD.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:26 PM

@Cerberus So you more often deal with inter-timezone matters than local?

Pope Saint Victor I was Pope from 189 to 199 (the Vatican cites 186 or 189 to 197 or 201). Pope Victor I was the first bishop of Rome born in the Roman Province of Africa: probably he was born in Leptis Magna (or Tripolitania). He was later canonized. His feast day is celebrated on 28 July as "St Victor I, Pope and Martyr". Before his elevation to the Roman episcopacy, a difference in dating the celebration of the Christian Passover/Easter between Rome and the bishops of Asia Minor had been tolerated by both the Roman and Eastern churches. The churches in Asia Minor celebrated it on the ...

No: it doesn't matter whether I call the hour I have to pick up my daughter from daycare 6 pm or 4 am, as long as it is always the same for me.

@simchona Pfft, of course not. Does he look 200,000 years old? ;)

So for local purposes it doesn't matter either way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus And you don't think it's natural for people to want to call mid-day "12:00" or "noon" no matter where they are on the globe? For people to want to get up at 7:00am whether they live in Toronto or Vancouver? For the evening news to be on at 6:00pm in every city in north america? Somehow it'd be better to have to know that in THIS time zone, sunrise is at 07:00 but in another city at the same latitude sunrise is at 06:00 and in another 05:00? This is beneficial somehow?

So when I go visit Vancouver, I don't have to change my watch, just all my notions about when things happen?

Hi, do this expressions sound right 'I have to remember to do it ', 'I will remember to do it'

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:32 PM

@JoeDimaggio They are grammatical

They don't mean the same thing

So this is interesting. The other day, on my way home, six cop cars went past on the interstate. Turns out there was a guy who was pulled over, a stand-off, then he committed suicide.

Now apparently, he and the woman who was with him killed some sex offender earlier that day.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox and today, we have a new pope! coincidence? I think not!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, exactly.

Time should be immutable, only what we do should change.

Except maybe not that day. Because they didn't want maid service at the hotel, and they asked for a couple of large trash bags.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm sorry, I don't see how that'd be beneficial at all. It would be so confusing.

6:35 PM

@KitFox Oh, dear. Sounds like a nightmare.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Just takes some getting used to.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah I know they don't mean the same thing

Whereas one cannot get used to the current way to calculate things.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm still not seeing any benefit at all.

I feel bad that the guy felt like he had to kill himself. I don't think anyone will be terribly upset about the sex offender.

just wanted to know if they are natural contractions @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:35 PM

@Cerberus speak for yourself. I find adding a few hours or subtracting a few hours pretty easy. It's just addimation!

Yay! I made a new word! Yay!

@KitFox I don't know, it's not exactly fun to have to go to prison for a decade...

@Cerberus He probably would have gotten off without jail time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JoeDimaggio I don't see any contractions. You could contract "I will" to "I'll" but (except maybe in British english?) you cannot contract "I have to remember" to "I've to remember"

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It already starts with "is it subtract or add if they say it is "earlier" in location x? Does "earlier" mean according to my time? Waaahh!"

@KitFox Huh? For murder?

6:38 PM

They keep mentioning that this sex offender was a child rapist. I wonder if the guy was one of his victims.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I was about to say the same. There weren't any contractions, natural or no

@Cerberus For murdering a sex offender.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus You can't easily think of whether or not a city is east or west of you?

You can murder sex offenders without going to prison?

Maybe.

Probably.

6:39 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I can think of that, but I can never remember whether to add or subtract.

Oh, I have to go.

Seeing as it is 19:39, you will know what I am going to do now.

Drinking!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Listen, If you can't remember that the sun sets in the west, and therefore cities west of you are earlier than you, how are you possibly going to function in that city when nobody gets up at 7am, they get up at 4am? and stores are open at 6am? how will you remember all of that?

Alas! My daily cycle is apparently so different that we have dinner at this hour first, so you can't predict me, muwahah!

Okay, okay, there will be drinking during dinner.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am sorry, I meant natural construction

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JoeDimaggio Ah, yes. they are perfectly fine sentences.

Do they mean what you think they mean? Who knows :)

6:42 PM

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am listening. I know where the sun sets, although I have to think about it every time. The only way I can remember it is by knowing that the orient is the east and what the Latin word means. I'm 100 % serious here: I really find that hard to remember.

Orior = to come up; occido = to fall.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yes but I already know you're an anomaly.

Everybody has trouble remembering these things.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 something like that ;) just making sure

You must be the exception.

At any rate, I must away now.

Toedeloe!

Or toedeledokie!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Think of it in terms of first principles. It is day where the sun is. If the sun is around the part of the earth to the west of you, those people have daylight. If you just had daylight and don't now, those people must be earlier than you.

@Cerberus have fun, you whacky creature.

6:43 PM

I would have to think about that every time.

Of course I can figure it out, but it is always annoying.

There's an app for that.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I don't know why you can't remember that, but at least you can compensate for your bizarre inability to understand timezones by understanding ancient latin and geometry.

Besides, you could reason, "they get to get up hours after me in the Americas, so they get up later, so America is later".

See?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yeah seriously. His phone can already show him what time it is in any city he cares about.

It is just like "right" v. "clockwise".

Right is stupid, clockwise is accurate.

6:45 PM

@KitFox: Your talks and jokes makes your friends always wants you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, it's morning there, so it's later HERE.

Because the bottom half of the clock turns towards the left.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 See how you could reason both ways and get confused?

Okay, BAI!

Is it correct sentence?

@JasperLoy New color?

@simchona:you tell?

6:46 PM

@Sudhir Please stop directing questions at people. If people have time to answer, they will. Otherwise, they are annoying.

user19161

@simchona Yes. Your kitten still stares at me fiercely!

@Cerberus No it doesn't!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir "your talks" means something like "the speeches you gave", the presentations you made. It doesn't mean "your speech" or "the way you talk" or "the things you say"

@JasperLoy The green is lovely.

And you might not want your friends to "want" you.

Since that has sexual connotations.

user19161

6:47 PM

@simchona It is simply "green" in the GIMP.

@KitFox Oh baby.

Right. Like that.

user19161

@simchona That sounds like a Justin Bieber song.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir Also, your verb "makes" and "wants" don't agree in number with their nouns. "your talks and jokes" is plural, and so is "your friends", yet you used singular "makes" and "wants"

@JasperLoy Bieber and "sexual connotations" should not be in the same sentence

6:48 PM

Your clever wit and passionate rhetoric make your friends crave your company.

I was confirming with you.

user image

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox passionate rhetoric eh? Is your rhetoric, er, passionate? know-what-I-mean? nudge nudge, say no more!

3

Oh golly.

That is so wrong.

user19161

@Sudhir The grammar there is totally messed up.

Its incorrect.

6:49 PM

Awful.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir There are three sentences and two are totally wrong.

Well, the "you are intelligent" part is right.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

"why people likes me" is completely wrong. "Why do people like me?" is correct.

user19161

@Sudhir The whole thing is so badly written that I am not sure what it means.

What is this I don't even

6:50 PM

That's a nice drawing of me, though.

Nod's as good as a wink to a blind bat.

It should be "Why people like me".

@Sudhir Not in that context, no

@Sudhir Yes, it could be that. But then it is a title and not a question.

Since she's asking a question

6:51 PM

Why people like me:
1. I'm funny.
2. ???
3. profit

@Sudhir Right, if it's a statement. If it's a question, Why do people like me?

Thusly.

@KitFox 3. Profit?

Your talks and jokes make your friends always wants you.

@aediaλ Yeah. Profit.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:53 PM

@aediaλ If Kit were a capitalist, she'd profit. Since she's a socialist, she has to give the profits to the state.

Unless you want a giant friend orgy.

@Sudhir No.

Is it right?

Or a friend harem.

4 mins ago, by KitFox

Your clever wit and passionate rhetoric make your friends crave your company.

@simchona:why?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

6:53 PM

@Sudhir "your talks" is not the right word here unless you are talking about someone who is a public speaker.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hey, who says I'm a socialist? Just because I love the Russkies?

@Sudhir You're not listening.

7 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir "your talks" means something like "the speeches you gave", the presentations you made. It doesn't mean "your speech" or "the way you talk" or "the things you say"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox You're all pro-union, pro-socialized-healthcare, pro-obama. Clearly a socialist. ;)

always want you

or

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh well, I suppose if you're going to appeal to the whole you're-socialist-because-you're-socialist argument, then you got me.

6:55 PM

always wants you

Always want you. But that means "always want to have sex with you."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir I answered this already

Mmm, ice cream socialists.

3

Sorry, don't know where that thought came from.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir Also, your verb "makes" and "wants" don't agree in number with their nouns. "your talks and jokes" is plural, and so is "your friends", yet you used singular "makes" and "wants"

@Sudhir If you're going to keep asking questions, listen to the answers you're getting

Otherwise I'm going to kick you

6:56 PM

@simchona I answered a similar question on ELL

for @Sudhir

@simchona: Didn't understand.

this is ridiculous

@Sudhir Well then pay more attention

Stop being annoying

Asking the same question over and over won't give different answers, unless you ask a better question

I mean he asked a similar question on ELL yesterday 'you wants', I don't know why he keeps on asking the same question

@JoeDimaggio Which one?

6:57 PM

Now I got it

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir Do you know what singular/plural mean? and how verbs in English have to agree in number with the nouns they refer to?

Yes

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir okay. so "wants" is singular agreement and "want" is plural. "your friends" is plural, so it should be "your friends want". Does that makes sense?

Yes

Thanks for the explanation.

I always get confused.

That's a silly mistake.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

in many cases, it seems as if there always has to be an "s": "Your friend wants you to visit", "Your friends want you to visit"

7:01 PM

Ok

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That trick doesn't work with some nouns or verbs but it works with lots.

Thanks

for your support.

I'm weak in English grammar.

I'm native speaker of Hindi.

So don't get irritated if I use wrong grammar.

@simchona: Sorry

don't mind

I always appreciate you guys.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Sudhir I think most people here won't be irritated about your grammar. Some of your chat-room behaviour can be irritating as you may have noticed.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This.

now I'd take care of it.

I'm always eager to learn this wonderful language.

Its too late here.

So good night guys

Thanks once again for your collaborations.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

7:08 PM

@Sudhir you're welcome. good luck.

@Sudhir Using a verb conjugation table can help too.

Jorge Mario Bergoglio, SJ (born December 17, 1936) is the current pope of the Roman Catholic Church, elected on March 13, 2013 and taking the regnal name of Francis. Prior to his election, he served as an Argentine cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church. He has served as the Archbishop of Buenos Aires since 1998. He was elevated to the cardinalate in 2001. Early life Jorge Bergoglio was born in Buenos Aires, one of the five children of an Italian railway worker and his wife. After studying at the seminary in Villa Devoto, he entered the Society of Jesus on March 11, 1958. Bergoglio obta...

@KitFox Oh! It was sublingual.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@simchona meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

@MετάEd Oh dur.

7:22 PM

No, not dur. You're thinking of the old Sumerian city.

Ashur. No, that was a tribe, wasn't it?

I hate my job. Anybody got a job for me? I can telecommute.

No, no, not Ur. You're thinking of that thing you paint naked Greeks on.

@KitFox No, not an urn. You're thinking of exactly what does a Grecian urn and how much you ode him. No, I mean you're thinking of that snarky puppet.

7:40 PM

Snarky puppet. Snarky puppet. Hmm...

All I can think of is Lambchop.

Mmm, kebab.

No, no, not Ernie. You're thinking of someone I'm awfully fond of.

I'm not sure you meant Ernie. I don't see him as snarky, except perhaps through Bert's eyes. And even then, he's just endearingly exasperating, right?

No, no, not rubber duckie. You're thinking of that guy on the box of bath powder.

On the "Which Sesame Street character are you?" test, I was...wait. Can you guess?

Now all I can think of is Mr. Clean. Hmm.

Pink.

He was pink. I don't remember much else, except it came in a box.

@KitFox Hmm. Elmo?

7:47 PM

feelings hurt

Aww. But everyone loves Elmo.

Big Bird? I'll be Snuffy if you play Big Bird.

You're probably not Big Bird. But I'm struggling to come up with a character that reflects your energy and isn't a naif.

I’m tired of people re-asking questions about how to spell and/or pronounce the letter c in English. This should stem the tide:

0

A: Why is "k" added to "panic" when suffixes added (as in "panicky")?

Because that is the standard rule in English. The OED says: Hence, in modern English, C has (1) the ‘hard’ sound [k] before a, o, u, before a consonant (except h), and when final, as in cab, cot, cut, claw, crow, acme, cycle, sac, tic, epic; (2) before e, i, y, it has the ‘soft’ ...

Note that epicene is something else than an epicky period. :)

It really is a genref question. Sigh.

But I was out of close votes, so answered instead. :)

8:04 PM

Do you really spell demosaicing demosaicking? I learned it without the k, I think, but I don't know that I have ever heard it said aloud.

@tchrist Interesting strategy.

And it was Bert.

@KitFox The problem is that the best reference is paywalled.

But it was also because of the miserable non-quality of the only non-deleted answer. And in a couple of hours, too.

It’s like people who ask whether to spell the past tense of beg as begged or as beged. It is like they were truant the day that rule was taught.

I don’t know whether this says more about the decreasing quality of the education system or just the increasing stupidity of students. I suppose both may apply.

@aediaλ But I love birthday cake with demosa icing on it!

@tchrist I think it is about the ease with which illiterates can communicate in the modern world.

@tchrist The two are related.

8:11 PM

Increased exposure.

@aediaλ Yes, certainly. It is The Rule.

@KitFox I didn't say Bert because I think of myself as very close to Bert, down to organizing stuff, and you're more... You seem less likely to be wallow-in-sadness-y, and more energetic, than me, so I didn't think you would be Bert.

The only boobs who spell it *demosaicing are the same dingledorks who cursed us with HTTP_REFERER — may they be forever damned.

They should go back to school to make up all those days their minds were elsewhere.

0

Q: How to use commas around the word "both"?

In the following sentence, how should I place commas around the word "both"? Should there be a comma before AND after "both", or ONLY after it? Should there be commas at all?: "This includes strengthening my knowledge in the fundamental subjects of this field, and gaining more experience in, bot...

Oh god. I have to go.

The Ladies’ is just down the hall, ma’am.

8:13 PM

giggles

The revolution will not be vomitious.

Later.

Bai!

8:41 PM

Think of it this way: if you have a tiled floor, and are very very lucky, it might even be mosaicked. The rest follows from there.

@KitFox No, no, not vomitious. You're thinking of when something bodes well.

Somebody’s getting married?

Bodas de sangre

Bodas de sangre es una tragedia en verso y en prosa del escritor español Federico García Lorca escrita en 1931. Se estrenó el 8 de marzo de 1933 en el Teatro Beatriz de Madrid por la Compañía de Josefina Díaz y Manuel Collado y fue llevada al cine por Edmundo Guibourg en 1938 y en otra versión por Carlos Saura en 1981. Es una producción poética y teatral que se centra en el análisis de un sentimiento trágico. Desde lo antiguo y lo moderno, en la manera de ver la tragedia. Todo ello enmarcado en un paisaje andaluz trágico y universal. El tema principal tratado en este gran drama es la...

Not all marriages bode well. :)

9:01 PM

@tchrist Yes, and then there's Oedipus.

9:51 PM

-1

A: What might be an appropriate term for a long-term, very serious, girlfriend?

There is a word that sums it all up: concubinage. Wikipedia: Concubinage is an interpersonal relationship in which a person engages in an ongoing relationship (usually matrimonially oriented) with another person to whom they are not or cannot be married. The inability to marry may be due to...

I realized when I read this: I am a concubine.

10:24 PM

> 2 A male paramour. Obs. = L. concubīnus, F. concubin.

@MετάEd So, you’re saying you’re obsolete then?

@tchrist I'm not the word, I'm the thing.

11:15 PM

¿Tenemos papa — argentino?

11:52 PM

@MετάEd No, no, not propitious. You're thinking of A natural inclination or affinity for something.

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