English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

15:00

if one could host one's own avatar one could do all sorts of things

but that would lead to all sorts of disreputible shenanigans

Jez

sending an avi as an image isn't one of them though

Matt Эллен

but animated images is, which is the same principle

Kit

Shower, laundry, lunch? Laundry, shower, lunch? Laundry, nap, lunch? Nap, nap, lunch?

I can't decide what to do.

Matt Эллен

laundry, shower, laundry, lunch, lunch, nap, laundry

Kit

Hmm.

I'm skipping chat again today too. I guess I've killed writers chat.

Matt Эллен

15:04

it's not dead, it's just sleeping

Kit

It looks pretty dead.

Jez

how do women get any work done given that they seem to chat so much?

Kit

Same way men do.

Jez

chat in the toilet, chat in the middle of the office, chat at their desks

chat when entering, chat when leaving

Kit

Maybe you should practice chatting. Then you can do it too.

Jez

15:07

this is kind of annoying. I'm implementing an ASP.NET roles provider but I actually want to provide more functionality that the normal implementation

Matt Эллен

croisants and chelsea buns too!

Jez

if i do so, i'll break compatibility with other roles providers (in the theoretical scenario that I want to switch to another)

Kit

What are you trying to do with it?

Jez

add users to roles, doing nothing if the user is already in the role

the default provider throws an exception there

Kit

Really?

Jez

15:11

yup

Kit

I don't recall that being a problem.

Where do you check if the user is in the role?

Jez

where do I check? i'm not meant to have to that's the point

Kit

Right, but if that's what will break compatibility, then...?

Jez

i did say in a theoretical scenario. nothing will actually be broken by a different implementation

Kit

I'm about to write an interface for roles management myself. I was curious what you were doing.

But none of that should be an issue.

For me, I mean.

Jez

15:14

i'm using the relatively antiquated ASP.NET roleManager mechanism

Kit

Is that some canned thing?

I am home sick today, so I don't have my stuffs in front of me.

I recall that I'm hooked through the ASPNET role provider.

Jez

it expects you to extend RoleProvider rather than implement an interface, then it provides the functionality as Roles through some weird wiring, so you can't just implement a subclass with extra methods

Kit

But I hook into the underlying sprocs for writing the web interfaces.

Huh.

Jez

otherwise I could have JezRoleProvider : IRoleProvider

Kit

So you're creating it as a class? I'm trying to understand what you're doing. You're not managing the roles from an asp?

Matt Эллен

15:17

SausageRollProvider:IBaker

Kit

Mmm.

Jez

from an asp?

Kit

From an ASP.NET web page.

Jez

I'm accessing it through static methods in System.Web.Security.Roles

Kit

But why?

Jez

15:19

i thought that was the way you were meant to

Kit

I mean, what are you doing with it? My brain isn't working well through the medicated haze.

Jez

ah, you can say var myProvider = ((MyProvider)(Roles.Provider));

not sure whether that's advisable though

change the provider in web.config and it breaks

the mechanism just isnt designed for extra functionality

cornbread ninja

how d

Kit

Why are you changing the provider?

Hola chatkillah.

I suddenly feel the urge to go somewhere else.

Jez

Good(ish) question. the old DB has its own users and roles table with its own provider so i just copied the idea

cornbread ninja

15:24

@Kit :(

Matt Эллен

who d

cornbread ninja

vo dee oh doh

Kit

@cornbreadninja I'm teasing, sweetie. I meant "go somewhere else with you, privately, wink shh "

cornbread ninja

@Kit :O

Kit

I mean. Uh.

Never mind.

@Jez Is it hosted in the standard ASP.NET SQL DB?

Because I don't think you need different providers then.

Jez

15:27

oh i know one thing that is done differently - the password generation

although i don't know why

rather the password hash generation

"When implementing a custom role provider, you are required to inherit the RoleProvider abstract class."

hmmmmmm.

Matt Эллен

"because fuck unit testing, you're testing our code too."

Kit

Hee hee.

OK, here's my config.

Jez

yeah it really should be an interface. i can't think why not.

Kit

<connectionStrings>
    <add name="ASPServices" connectionString="Data Source=Server;Initial Catalog=DBUsers;Integrated Security=True" providerName="System.Data.SqlClient" />
  </connectionStrings>

And

Matt Эллен

asps, er, vices

Kit

15:30

<roleManager enabled="true" defaultProvider="CustomProvider">
      <providers>
        <clear />
        <add applicationName="/" name="AspNetWindowsTokenRoleProvider" type="System.Web.Security.WindowsTokenRoleProvider" />
        <add connectionStringName="ASPServices" applicationName="/App" name="CustomProvider" type="System.Web.Security.SqlRoleProvider" />
      </providers>
    </roleManager>
  </system.web>

Jez

the default Microsoft SQL Server role provider

Kit

I guess I do use a custom provider. I wonder why I did that? You want I should look up my notes?

Jez

it's only custom in that you're giving a custom connection string

Kit

I see.

Well, my applications all use the same DB, the only difference is the application name in the connection string.

Is that even remotely helpful?

Jez

that's an evil question :-)

Kit

15:36

I meant it honestly. I can stop offering random bits if it's not helping.

10

Q: Why is "to get" sometimes used where "to be" could be used?

Why is "to get" sometimes used where "to be" could be used? Examples: "The video got uploaded to the web site." vs. "The video was uploaded to the web site." "He got thrown in the pool." vs. "He was thrown in the pool." "We got caught!" vs. "We were caught!" Is that usage correct?

0

Q: He was getting vs being beaten

I would need to understand the difference here: He was being beaten. He was getting beaten. I know "get" + ppt can be either passive voice or a change of state. What is that in this example? I guess this is the passive voice. But what about this: He is getting ready. He is being rea...

verbs passive-voice get-be

Do you think that's a dupe?

I can't tell.

And this:

0

Q: Purchase vs. Order

What is the difference in meaning between Purchase and Order? Is there a preference for Purchase vs. Order in some cases/regions/dialects etc. Specifically in e-shops, when should we use purchase and when order? When should we use them as a verb, and when as a noun?

word-choice word-usage

Wasn't this asked a few days ago?

Matt Эллен

I don't think so. I think b.roth is asking "when can get be used in stead of be?" but TerryS is asking "is this passive voice?"

Cerberus

Hello.

Jez

I guess what I'm meant to do is just use another class for my extra functionality

Cerberus

Is Google slow for you too?

Jez

but then i wonder why the RoleProvider class has so much in it

it should only have the bare minimum needed for authentication

MετάEd

15:42

@Cerberus I haven't seen a problem.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus no

Cerberus

Oh OK.

It was/is slow for me.

Google.com is slow.

Google.nl is fast.

Odd.

I normally use .com.

MετάEd

@Cerberus In fact it's positively snappy. I have an upgraded DSL feed as of yesterday morning.

Jez

The base role provider abstract class has enough stuff in there to implement it can actually be rather daunting

but you can leave 90% of it throwing a NotImplementedException and things are fine

Kit

I swear I saw this question.

Jez

15:44

this suggests to me that the base class has way too many methods in it

public override string[] FindUsersInRole(string roleName, string usernameToMatch)

Cerberus

@MετάEd Feed?

Jez

why is that in there for instance?

Cerberus

I think I should congratulate you.

MετάEd

@Cerberus Yes. The feeder line: the line that feeds Internet connectivity to me. Not "feed" in the Usenet sense.

Cerberus

Okay.

What other line is there?

Matt Эллен

15:47

all of them! so many parallel lines receding to the vanishing point

Jez

interesting

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/…

Cerberus

Or are you saying your DSL line is like a drip to you?

@MattЭллен Umm parallel?

Jez

Microsoft don't recommend you throw an exception if you try and add a user to a role they're already in, even though their default SQL provider does

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus just normal parallel

Cerberus

There can be no two parallel lines going through the same point, or they are one and the same line!

Matt Эллен

15:48

@Cerberus they all meet at infinity

Cerberus

. _______________________________________________

@MattЭллен Is that a sleazy bar?

Or a line?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus but they look like they are from a 2d perspective

@Cerberus almost definitely

Cerberus

*like that if they are viewed?

I guess that's true.

@MattЭллен Yay!

MετάEd

@Cerberus Oh, you are so Euclidean.

Cerberus

Very.

I like Greeks.

Matt Эллен

15:51

I wonder if, one day, I'll turn into a crysalis and then a short while later emerge as a squirrel

Cerberus

Chrysalis?

Matt Эллен

yeah

Cerberus

Why a squirrel?

Matt Эллен

I feel squirrely

Cerberus

I see.

Are squirrel, squirm, and squirt related?

Matt Эллен

15:53

not by marriage

Cerberus

Oh.

Btw., remind me to clean my windows next summer.

They're dirty.

Have been for years.

Matt Эллен

right

Kit

Look, squirrels.

Cerberus

How is your Internet connection?

I'm thinking of switching.

Matt Эллен

it's good

Cerberus

15:55

My upload speed is 1 Mbps.

And my modem needs frequent resetting.

And I could be paying € 7/mo less.

What do you get and pay?

I'm scared of switching. What if it goes wrong and I am without Internet for a month?

Matt Эллен

I'm at work, so I don't pay :D

Cerberus

And at home?

Kit

Pay for internet. Interesting idea.

Cerberus

Or are you always at work.

Matt Эллен

we seem to get 11 up and 7 down

Cerberus

15:56

Nice.

Kit

I think the US should make the internet a utility.

Matt Эллен

I dont know what I get at home, because I'm not there

Cerberus

Actual speeds or theoretical?

@Kit Why the US specifically?

@Kit You get free Internet?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus that's what I got from speedtest.net just now

Kit

Because we regulate utilities?

Cerberus

15:57

Ah OK.

@MattЭллен That's great.

Kit

@Cerberus No, I don't. I was just kidding.

Cerberus

@Kit Thank God.

Kit

We're thinking of switching to DSL, but there's hardly a point, since we're moving in a few months anyway.

Cerberus

@Kit I think we should all make it a utility!

Matt Эллен

@Kit the UK used to have the GPO (general post office) that controlled communication. that got privatised

Cerberus

15:58

@Kit Then what do you have now?

@MattЭллен Same here.

Kit

Yeah, the UK is weird about privatization.

Cerberus

And now everyone just rents and resells access to the old post office's network.

Matt Эллен

for some reason we keep electing tories. They love to privatise

Cerberus

We privatised energy and rails too.

Kit

@Cerberus Cable, which was great until the people started moving into the subdivision across the street.

Matt Эллен

15:58

@Cerberus same

Jez

@Cerberus yeah but they are regulated so heavily they might as well be a government organization. can anyone explain to me why a heavily-regulated private company is better than a government organization?

Matt Эллен

nope

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yeah privatisation is annoying in many ways, although I must say it seems to have worked well for energy here. Splitting network from service (and keeping the network public) is a precondition.

Mistu4u

@Mitch BDW stands for "By The Way".

Cerberus

@Kit Ah OK. How annoying.

Jez

15:59

by dee way

Cerberus

@Jez Yeah, I'm not sure about that either—probably because private employees get paid less and are easier to fire, and hence cheaper?

Kit

@Jez Because then we don't have to pay for it?

Cerberus

I think that's the main trade-off.

Jez

@Kit the cost comes somewhere, someone has to

Cerberus

We pay just as much as we used to.

Kit

16:01

Yeah, but I don't have to pay taxes for the government to manage it.

Because we are all familiar with how good the government is at managing stuff.

Cerberus

I think the difference is mainly employee costs.

Kit

I should be napping.

Cerberus

Well, when it was still a gov't agency, it was about equally autonomous. And it was generating most of its budget itself through tickets; and they still get subsidised now, I think.

OK bai.

Jez

@Kit that a bit of a throwaway line. a heavily-regulated company involves paying for the regulator, and the company losing any opportunity to 'innovate' anyway because they have to be regulated

Matt Эллен

go to sleep
little kit

Kit

16:03

Nah, no rest for the wicked. Cheese and crackers instead.

Jez

the only thing i can think of is that there might be a "them and us" mentality between the regulator and the company

Cerberus

How are you feeling today?

Kit

Anyone else want some?

Cerberus

Yay!

Jez

given human nature, that might work out better than one organization

Matt Эллен

16:03

Yeah!

Cerberus

My favourite.

Cheese.

Jez

then again, the regulator might be in bed with the regulated

Cerberus

Yeah.

I don't think we have a special agency to regulate the railways.

We have a maintenance company and a service company.

Jez

if you don't regulate them then how are they any good?

Kit

@Cerberus I feel like ass. My whole body aches. But at least my head is more or less together.

Cerberus

16:06

@Jez The department of transportation keeps an eye on it, or something.

Jez

yeah my back's hurting now, not getting enough exercise with this job

Cerberus

@Kit Hmm OK, that is something. Any idea why you feel like that?

Kit

I'm guessing it's this cold.

But it might be aliens.

Cerberus

Hmm.

Matt Эллен

don your foil hat!

Cerberus

16:07

Both annoying.

dons three tin-foil hats with ear holes

Kit

Oh noes, I'm out of copper foil!

Cerberus

Oh shit.

livresque

Hello!

Cerberus

Do I need copper foil?

Hi!

Matt Эллен

either a copper foil hat or a homeopathic pill for the cold

both equally good at curing malaise

Cerberus

16:09

@livresque Salve!

@MattЭллен Ohh I love homoeopathic pills.

The taste of ignorance is thrilling.

3

Matt Эллен

lol

Kit

OK. I must wash and depart. Ping me if you must.

Cerberus

Ping!

Get well soon.

Kit

thx

Matt Эллен

smell better soon

Kit

16:12

That I can do right away.

Matt Эллен

:D

Kit

I have rose-scented shampoo.

Matt Эллен

nice!

Kit

And some kind of musky soap.

Now you know what I smell like.

Matt Эллен

beaver musk?

Kit

16:13

snerkle

perv

Matt Эллен

what can I say? ;)

Cerberus

Haha.

Perv indeed.

Jez

0

Q: Drag and Drop of a map in widows phone 8

I am building a windows phone 8 using BingMapsDirectionsTask BingMapsDirectionsTask task = new BingMapsDirectionsTask(); ShowMyLocationOnTheMap(); LabeledMapLocation start = new LabeledMapLocation(myCrntAddres, new System.Device.Location.GeoCoordinate()); LabeledMapLocation end = new LabeledM...

windows-phone-8 bing-maps bing-api

haha. widows phone.

Cerberus

Hehe.

Matt Эллен

is the past tense of input input or inputted?

Cerberus

16:17

Actually, many people say the core of WP 8 is very good.

I think inputted.

But opinions are probably divided.

Better recast the sentence.

Matt Эллен

yes

Cerberus

I am tempted to get this new ADSL plan where I get a free tablet.

It's worth € 85–170, Android 4.1, 7".

Jez

tablets make about as much sense as Twitter.

Matt Эллен

oh!

Cerberus

@Jez I know...but if it's free?

800x480 pixels.

Jez

16:22

Twitter is weird. it's the kind of thing I could have easily implemented, but I probably had the idea a while back and (like 1000s of others) chucked it out because it was dumb. now that Twitter is popular, I still think it's dumb.

if someone has some interesting opinion on something, they're not going to get it across adequately in 150 characters or whatever; they need a proper blog. otherwise, i'm not interested in reading it. the only time I do is when some news site or forum has posted tweets, in which case the news site/forum is what I'm reading

livresque

Sounds like it's time to wear my Phyrgian cap

Cerberus

@Jez I still barely understand what it does, even though I had to make an account for something once. It interests me very, very, very little.

@livresque Phrygian?

Kit

Apples, not roses.

Just so you get your fantasies right.

Jez

when famous people post stuff on Twitter I usually cringe

it almost always makes them look stupider

Cerberus

@livresque As long as it's lined with Lauriotic silver...

Kit

16:27

Except for George Takei. That guy is funneh.

Cerberus

@Kit Nice.

@Jez Where do you even see/read these things?

I never see them.

Matt Эллен

@Kit yes :D

Jez

@Cerberus occasionally a news site or forum will link to a Tweet. when i go to it, there's a list of other tweets by that account

Cerberus

I always say Twitter is for the inarticulate, like children and birds.

Jez

like i saw richard dawkins' one

Kit

16:28

I hate that guy.

Cerberus

Or it would be called Speak.

Jez

-1

Q: Microsoft and their use of internal and sealed classes, static helpers and no interfaces

I'm going to keep this short because it's more of a rant than a constructive question but can anyone offer any good reasons why Microsoft seem so keen on creating sealed classes, using internal properties and fields (accessed from other classes half the time) and why they refuse to use interfaces...

c# .net microsoft

"I'm going to keep this short because it's more of a rant than a constructive question" hahaha

Matt Эллен

Drummer Love Song: http://youtu.be/Z3HN3Z9zhg0 via @youtube

I've just signed the #AllTrials petition for all trials registered and all results reported. http://www.alltrials.net http://www.alltrials.net

my last two tweets

it's lucky they make me look good.

Kit

I've never had any of my musician SOs write me a song for V-Day.

Jez

@Kit marry me, and I won't either

Matt Эллен

16:33

I've never had a musician SO

Kit

@Jez Sorry, bub. Already taken.

Matt Эллен

also, I don't celebrate veterans day. That's an American holiday.

Kit

Hahaha.

Matt Эллен

I am king of wit

MετάEd

@Kit Dawkins?

Kit

16:36

@MattЭллен Oh. I was laughing for the YouTube thing.

giggles

Matt Эллен

:D

Kit

@MετάEd Yes.

MετάEd

@Kit How are you doeen.

Kit

And for the record, I have had SOs write me songs, just not for V-Day. I don't want rumors getting started that I'm not songworthy.

@MετάEd You're kind of freaking me out right now.

MετάEd

@Kit Is it the eye? I still have the bird around here somewhere.

Kit

16:39

@MετάEd It's OK. Just tell me where to look.

MετάEd

@Kit Lost me.

Kit

Your weird eye. I don't know where to look when I'm talking to you.

Jez

I love how one of the commendations Ratzinger got was that he'd modernized the way the church communicated by posting stuff on Twitter. yeah, that kind of summarizes the level of profundity the church exhibits on any issue.

Kit

It's making me uncomfortable.

Get it?

It's funny,

If you've ever talked to someone with a weird eye, that is.

Mitch

@Mistu4u Really? By Duh Way?

MετάEd

16:42

I was reading about the Eye of God and thought it would be fun to try it on.

It is a little freaky.

Matt Эллен

By Le Way, if you're French

Kit

OK. I'm off to have lunch with my main squeeze. You all behave now, you hear?

Matt Эллен

misbehaves byee!

Kit

smites @Matt

Bye!

MετάEd

@Kit Hey. That's my job.

Kit

16:43

Well. Get to it then.

MετάEd

@Kit I'm abdicating in favor of Pope Ratzinger. He does a better job.

I'm bringing back the bird.

Jez

ex-Pope

i've been talking to God and he told me that he never gave Ratzinger permission to resign

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Ha U sin dis?:

3

Q: How can knowing a root word help me?

When I was in school, teachers often used to say that we should know the root words in English. But woefully, I forgot how could they be handy. Can anybody here explain if remembering the root words really can help me? I assume it has something to do with acquiring a strong vocabulary, etc. I am...

pedagogy root-words

Kit

Oh, and happy birthday @MattЭллен! blows kisses

Matt Эллен

Thanks! yay!

Mitch

16:50

@MattЭллен you forgot snacks in between lunch...and laundry. Which makes me think...in BrE is it 'poop' or 'poo'. In AmE, 'poo' is recognizable, but 'poop' is much more common. Also, I think it's a recent invention, I bet 'poop' was hardly used before 20 years ago. It somehow invented itself as a polite alternative... to less polite alternatives. Like you don't want your kids running around saying 'I just crapped my pants'.

'pooped'...you totally want them running around saying that.

Matt Эллен

well pooped, in BrE at least, can also be an adjective meaning tired

saying "I'm totally pooped" has no scatalogical connotation

Jez

@Mitch we never say "poop" in that sense

Matt Эллен

I think we say poo more than poop, though, when talking about poo

livresque

@Cerebus Salve ! Discupete omnes, I am still orienting myself with how this chatroom works. Let's hear it for user error.

Mitch

@Jez what way do you use poop then? er... use 'poop'?

@MattЭллен same here (in AmE).

@livresque we're already discupete-ing.

Jez

16:55

@Mitch as Matt said, to mean tired

"poop out" is a phrase sometimes heard

Matt Эллен

poop 5 and poop 4. you Americans have all manner of poops

Jez

The Poop

Matt Эллен

time to go

Jez

yeah ditto

livresque

It would be remiss not to mention the "party pooper."

@MετάEd Interesting that the Pope is abdicating just in time for Lent.

Mitch

17:10

@MattЭллен we rock the poop.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ohh happy birthday!

29, huh?

Quite the age.

Mitch

@livresque he should abdicate Ash Wednesday. The fun of Carnival and none of the hangover.

Cerberus

@livresque Hmm what is discupete?

Quid est? Non intellego.

Mitch

Genau.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yeah...I think the first answer is OK?

Mitch

17:14

@MattЭллен "I'm totally pooped out" kinda does. depending on your mood. But then "I'm crapped out" only sounds funny if you're 12 years old.

livresque

@Cerebus, typo of disculpete

Volo dicere, grosso modo, "mea maxima, maxima culpa"

MετάEd

@MattЭллен The Brits have the best one: poop 1

Mitch

@livresque That's what the pope said!

livresque

Hahaa...

Mitch

@MετάEd " late Middle English: from Old French pupe, from a variant of Latin puppis 'stern'"...

livresque

17:18

I feel a new spin on "that's-what'she-said" coming!

Mitch

For an etymology, that is so boring. We need to change it.

@livresque said the pope to the bishop!

MετάEd

@Mitch Oh. Someone tell @Kit.

Mitch

I never really got that. Why would a bishop be talking to an actress? And if he were, why is that salacious? Unless he's talking about the Old Testament...now that is dirty.

@MετάEd what did she think it was?

livresque

@Mitch, I haven't watched his speech yet. Did he really use those words?

MετάEd

@Mitch You don't know about sternness and Kit, evidently.

Cerberus

17:38

@livresque Bene, nunc intellego. Sed grosso, sitne verbum Italianum modernum?

Et nomen mihi est Cerberus, non *Cerebus.

MετάEd

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…