English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MετάEd

00:00

If once we allow people to start spiritualising and refining the sense of the word Christian, it … will become in their mouths simply a term of praise. But that way of using the word will be no enrichment of the language, for we already have the word good. … It is much clearer to say he is a bad Christian than to say he is not a Christian. —C. S. Lewis

tchrist

Larry’s younger son is named Lewis, not Louis, after the author.

MετάEd

It's the same name.

Even someone named "Llewyss" could be named after Clive Staples.

He simply would not be spelled after him.

tchrist

He chose that spelling intentionally, to remind one of the author.

That is what I meant.

MετάEd

you-re-it

Eeew.

tchrist

Similarly, his elder son’s name is spelled in a way other than the most common one: Aron.

Wrong game.

MετάEd

00:06

I know an Aron.

Wrong game, yes. :-)

tchrist

Beware his rod.

They shall not comfort thee.

This one is one of those Sheldon Cooper types. Professionally, not personally. PhD theoretical subatomic physicist.

TRiG

> The world is full of exceptions to exceptions now, accommodating everyone and not wanting to correct anyone. But it's very frustrating.

tchrist

Something like that.

TRiG

@tchrist It's a quote from the last answer you posted. It amused me.

tchrist

@TRiG The last answer I posted was about installation troubles.

Well, no.

That isn’t true.

The last one that is not deleted.

MετάEd

00:10

@tchrist This one is an activist. aronra.com

tchrist

Which is the one you commented on.

TRiG

@tchrist The last answer you posted to this chatroom (which is not an answer you wrote).

tchrist

oh

I post answers in chatrooms? Is that what they are?

TRiG

28 mins ago, by tchrist

0

A: Should I capitalize the starting sentence after a greeting that ends in a comma (e.g. "Hello,")?

I was searching to see if it's common today to (incorrectly) capitalize the beginning of the sentence after the greeting (Dear Dolly,) and am surprise to discover the people answering are lost themselves. First, there is not a comma after “Hi/hello” but before the name, unless you use a title and...

MετάEd

@tchrist I bet you sometimes post answers to chatrooms also.

There ya go.

tchrist

00:12

install != post

you can post in a stall

or you can stall in a post

but you cannot install in a post.

you install on a post.

i miss @reg

MετάEd

@tchrist You can go postall.

tchrist

@MετάEd vade retro me satanas. i’m of the right age bracket. and mood.

MετάEd

Get down, Santana?

tchrist

santa is a pineapple

MετάEd

I like pineapple. Too bad I don't eat ham anymore.

Well, hardly ever.

Maybe I'm trying to set a good example for my minions.

tchrist

00:27

@Rob Gurued again, eh?

tchrist

00:47

This one needs just one more vote for a Guru badge:

39

A: Is there a word for numbers between 10 and 99?

Assuming you mean 10-99 inclusive, the phrase you want is "two-digit number".

Here a SEDE query to find candidates:

data.stackexchange.com/english/query/97224

aedia λ

01:07

Is it only Monday still? Bleauuugh.

shouts toward the East It better over there in the Morrow?

Robusto

@tchrist Hmm, I suppose you're right. A bit neat, that. People do love to put bows on things.

tchrist

@Robusto Wasn’t my doing.

Robusto

I didn't figure you for it.

tchrist

I did most of the rest of them, though, after I realized I could write a query for it. :)

Robusto

The query is the reward, yes.

tchrist

01:19

Weird that Reg didn’t get one.

40

A: What is a good replacement for "ununderstandable"?

How about incomprehensible or unfathomable?

Robusto

Me, I'd rather write a program or a macro to do my work for me than to do it myself. Even if it takes longer!

tchrist

I wrote the programmette.

I despise repetitive work on a computer.

It misses the entire point.

Robusto

Tru dat.

tchrist

Oh. I know.

Robusto

Because it never really takes longer to write code to handle repetition. Maybe for the first batch, but you know you'll have to use it again.

tchrist

01:22

Reg didn’t get a new Guru badge because he previously got one for something that is no longer valid.

Robusto

Funny how that works.

tchrist

They don’t rescind them. It is just that the next time you should get one, it does not count.

Yeah, half-funny.

Robusto

Actually, the only thing I'm leaving on the table here is that I should very much like to get a gold badge for single-word-request. I'm about 27 answers shy of that. Already have the points.

Hmm, actually I'm only 15 answers shy.

tchrist

Hm, I can’t find which one that might have been.

You don’t look shy.

Robusto

Nor do I act shy. Still, there it is.

tchrist

01:24

Wait, it says he got a Guru badge for ununderstandable, but it is not on the front page.

Oh, gosh now I know.

Robusto

?

tchrist

He has +40 up and no down.

He was at +39 up when I gave him the +1.

But he got the Guru for it back on Jan 17.

aedia λ

tries and fails to eat whatever it is Rob left on the table

tchrist

That means somebody was deleted.

Or they reneged.

I am betting on Jasper. Somehow.

aedia λ

I forgot to eat more than crackers and hummus for dinner, until now.

tchrist

01:26

Just because we didn’t lose rep does not mean our posts kept their votes. Maybe.

I just gave out about 100 Guru badges. We’ll see if anybody notices.

Robusto

@aediaλ Put some applesauce on it, there's a good girl.

aedia λ

gnaws

Robusto

@tchrist Looks like someone did.

You know, a funny thought just occurred to me. If someone—not me, of course—were to go back and edit 15 questions I've answered that could legitimately have the single-word-request and add that, I wonder if that would catch me up.

aedia λ

Probably a lot of questions that should have single-word-request or phrase-requests don't.

Robusto

01:47

"Abbreviated Coded Rendition Of Name Yielding Meaning" => ACRONYM

Thanks to the Cygwin Acronyms List. First place, in fact.

2

Q: Can I call him "Mr Noise"?

I want to name a person who makes loud noises to attract people on purpose (without considering the sex of audiences) in my writing, a name not an adjective like noisy but negative as well, not too rude or offensive, only ironic but acceptable. Can I name him "Mr Noise" for example? Does not it s...

single-word-requests

Sure, why not?

►

If Spirit could reference someone as Mr. Skin, why can't someone call someone else Mr. Noise?

aedia λ

Man, I don't know how there are so many "what should I call this" questions. Ok, I know how, but why? Can no one make a stylistic decision for themselves?

(@Cerb, I'm looking at you, 'cause I know you'll be rolling 'round in your hell-sleep over why I don't use "for himself" instead. But it's fine, see? Individual style an' all. Also, you can't catch me up here on this rainbow.)

Robusto

Yeah. Without those and the "Which sentence is correct?" questions, this place would be smaller than Donald Trump's sense of shame.

tchrist

@Robusto Where?

Robusto

@tchrist Someone starred your statement.

tchrist

Ah.

Robusto

02:02

Presumably they had to notice it to do that.

tchrist

You have to look a bit to notice. I spread the wealth around.

Robusto

$ vim .bashrc

tchrist

I hate this chat.

It steals my keystrokes.

Even when the focus is not in the input widget.

That is Evil and Wrong.

It fucks up my navigation.

Robusto

Really? It doesn't steal mine.

aedia λ

Does it really? I've never seen it do that.

Robusto

02:05

What browser do you use?

tchrist

If the chat window is the one in the browser, I can no longer use my single-key plaintext shortcuts.

They get entered as chat window input.

If I have another tab active, of course it does not.

But the stupid thing seems to think that if the chat window is active, I have no business using text keys except as input.

It does not respect my shotcuts.

I cannot defocus the input.

aedia λ

I've only used it on Windows, Mac, and Android phones lately though, and mostly in Chrome.

tchrist

Like if I click on the an icon up in the row, the input is still sent to the damned text box.

I use keys to go up and down my tabs.

But when flipping through, if I hit the chat window, it kills me.

So if I am on the tab before this one, and I hit 222 to go forward three tabs, I don't. I go forward one, and enter 22 in the damned input widget.

That is a design fuckup.

Cerberus

@aediaλ rolls over in hell hole

tchrist

It forces me to use the goddamned mouse even though I have hotkeys setup to avoid that.

Dumbasses.

Robusto

02:08

Let the record show that the last time I checked I was neither female nor a robot. But if I were a secret programming project of Jeff Atwood's, I could easily be mistaken about those things. — Robusto 20 secs ago

►

I got your Hell Hole right here, Hellhound!

@tchrist Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, the page must be set up to transfer focus to the input window. That can be defeated, though.

tchrist

How?

Robusto

Let me think on it a bit.

tchrist

Is this a bug in their design?

Robusto

I'm sure they think it's a feature, not a bug.

tchrist

Well, it certainly bugs me.

Robusto

02:19

An event listener must be getting attached to the window or the document to trap keystrokes and send them south.

tchrist

Google used to do that, the bastards. They stopped.

Robusto

The trouble is, their Javascript is minified. Hmm, what are the keystrokes you wish weren't getting trapped?

tchrist

But maybe it is because I don’t let them do that predictive crap.

aedia λ

Don't they still do it with the stupid instant search I always forget to turn off?

tchrist

I don’t want any keystrokes trapped.

aedia λ

02:21

Jinx-ish.

tchrist

If I want focus on the input widget, I’ll go there myself.

Just because the tab is foregrounded does not mean they get all my keystrokes.

I use things like 0 for +10% zoom, - for -10% zoom, etc. 1 and 2 go back and forth in the tab ring.

6 restores default zoom.

Various random things like that.

All my keystrokes do not belong to them.

When I flip through tabs, the chat window sticks and grabs them. Super annoying.

This is probably because I am a vi user not an emacs user.

@aediaλ I thought you were mythological. How come you came back?

aedia λ

@tchrist I wanted a nap one day, and there was this pretty girl...

Robusto

$(document).keypress(function(event){
    if (event.target != $('#input').first() ) {
        $('#input').blur();
    }
});

Nah, that doesn't work. Hold on, let me refine it a bit.

Jon Purdy

What’s wrong with using more than one word? And are Anglo-Saxon words not good enough? english.stackexchange.com/questions/103755/…

tchrist

Hello Guru @JonPurdy.

Jon Purdy

02:30

@tchrist: Guru twice over apparently now?

tchrist

@JonPurdy It’s contagious.

Hwæt! Do we really have to start speaking Anglo-Saxon again?

Jon Purdy

Um. Rihtlice.

Robusto

$(document).keypress(function(event){
    if (event.target !== $('#input')[0] ) {
        $('#input').blur();
        event.preventDefault();
    } else {
        $('#input').focus();
    }
});

That one works.

tchrist

@JonPurdy This is the whole SWR toopidnice.

Robusto

@tchrist: paste that script into your console and see if it still lets you do your other keystrokes.

tchrist

02:33

God alone knows how to "paste it into my console". And he isn’t sharing. :(

Robusto

What browser are you using?

tchrist

Opera.

Robusto

Oh ...

tchrist

pera

Robusto

12

Q: How to open the JavaScript console in different browsers?

Updated on October 7th 2012 Chrome: Press either CTRL + SHIFT + J to open the "Console" tab of the Developer Tools. Alternative method: Press either CTRL + SHIFT + I or F12 to open the Developer Tools. Press ESC (or click on "Show console" in the bottom right corner) to slide the con...

javascript browsers

tchrist

02:35

I’ve never heard of a “Javascript console”.

What is it?

Robusto

It's an ingress into the guts of your browser.

tchrist

Control-Shift-I does nothing. Is that a Microsoft thing?

Maybe I need Alt?

Robusto

You can do virtually anything on any web page. It's how I created the WTF/TL;DR close reason thingy.

@tchrist Mac or Linux?

tchrist

Mac.

Robusto

Try Command-Shift I.

tchrist

02:37

Well, that did something.

Fraud and Malware Detection.

Must find where all the shortcuts are.

Robusto

Search around in your menus and see if there are dev tools somewhere. Or use Chrome for the purposes of this experiment.

opera.com/developer/tools

I guess you have to have the Dragonfly extension installed in Opera.

tchrist

help.opera.com/Mac/11.60/en/keyboard.html

@Robusto I don’t.

Robusto

Can you get it?

tchrist

It says it should open “Dragonfly”.

I don’t see why not.

Robusto

I don't use Opera, so I don't know. Anyway, do you have Chrome on your Mac?

tchrist

02:42

How weird. It seems to be supposed to already be there.

Chrome? I think I may, but I never use it.

Robusto

Well, give it a try. At least we will know if the script serves your purpose. Then the details of finding if you have Dragonfly or not can be managed.

@tchrist Wait ... it won't work for you in Chrome because those are Opera-specific shortcut keys you're using. Duh. I think you'll have to figure out the Dragonfly thing.

tchrist

Oh my.

I just finally got my normal email working again for the first time in like a month.

And they hadn’t turned on greylisting at first. Oh no. Millions and millions of incoming.

I'm using pop3 off somewhere.

This is going to take awhile.

My own greylister used to turn away about 35,000 attempted spam deliveries a day.

I think they only ran without one for a few hours. I hope.

Looks like it only has the last week's worth. The first three weeks must have bounced. Please don’t ask. :(

aedia λ

03:09

My sympathies. Spam is a scourge.

aedia λ

04:06

^ I have no idea why youtube is showing me this scary ad next to my Tim Minchin videos.

Cerberus

Hahaha.

I love it.

aedia λ

05:25

Canvas Bags is now stuck in my head. "Take your canvas bags to the supermarket." It sounds so exciting.

►

user19161

05:37

@aediaλ Haha why is it scary?

aedia λ

05:52

@JacobBlack The ad itself is creepy because of its weird all-caps and title caps typography, excessive photoshopping of the model, and the fact that the model behind the text is staring straight at the camera wearing what appears to be a wedding dress (visual read:" I am designed for the male gaze! this property could be yours!" conflicts a great deal with the feminist message in the beginning of Confessions, which is probably what I watched first).

aedia λ

06:13

I do somewhat recognize the irony in my whinging about this whilst procrastinating on finishing the artwork for my Catholic friends' wedding save-the-date.

TemporaryNickName

07:07

guys

what is the vocabulary to express "Use something excessively"?

In context, "I recommend you to use jQuery API document excessively"

I think I knew the vocabulary that fits right into this scenario but I forgot

TemporaryNickName

08:16

derp

TemporaryNickName

09:46

stupid north korea

Jez

stupid China, more like

i mean how many times can an ally do things you condemn before they stop being your ally?

TemporaryNickName

i know

US ownz

but I seriously cannot understand why North Korea always want to destroy us :(

What remains to them or to South Korea when they blow up the whole country like they did back in Korean war?

Jez

i can see why NK feels threatened by the US, i can see why any country does

presumably the idea is that with nukes, they can't be invaded so easily

that doesn't explain why China seems to think it's OK or in their interests to let NK develop nukes

if i were China i'd just crush them

a useful ally? how the hell are they useful?

Epitorial

10:03

Good thing S. Korea is more on technology.

And ... music.

Jez

@Epitorial not much good if they get shelled into the stone age

Epitorial

Ahaha.

TemporaryNickName

11:12

what if when NK finishes developing nuke then decides to reunificate with SK?

This might happen as well..

Matt Эллен

11:51

I see @Kit's in my meta fixin my kwestuns

Kit

12:06

Yep. I do that.

I was just going to fix a typo, but it told me the title had already been used, so I had to make some stuff up.

Matt Эллен

it is better with the new title

Kit

Flatterer.

Is it lunchtime there yet?

Matt Эллен

nearly. 20 minutes to go

I'm in my computer fixin my codez

or trying to

Kit

I delayed so long in getting win 7 that I can't get it anymore.

Matt Эллен

you have to skip to 8?

TemporaryNickName

12:09

are u guys uni students?

=3

Matt Эллен

I am a working stiff

Kit

I'm trying to decide if I should get win 8 or try to find 7 somewhere.

@temp no.

Matt Эллен

well, 8 has the annoying metro screen that might be useful for touchscreen devices

but I'm sure there must be a way to turn it off

TemporaryNickName

if u r a current uni student, you always have dreamspark but i guess u can't =(

Kit

Crud. Let me switch to a real computer.

Matt Эллен

12:11

dreams park?

TemporaryNickName

yeah

dreams park

Kit

We applied for dreamspark, but it is for a friend and I don't want to get in trouble.

TemporaryNickName

hmm k

Matt Эллен

oh, is it a software buying thing?

TemporaryNickName

is there any particular reason why u don't want to use linux or have it a go?

Kit

12:11

Cheap ms software program.

Matt Эллен

I thought you mean students were dreamers :D

Kit

Get you hooked.

Brb.

TemporaryNickName

they now have steam, which is awesome cause they have a lot of cool indie games

Matt Эллен

yeah, we had something like that when I was at uni

TemporaryNickName

@MattЭллен do u know linux?

Matt Эллен

12:12

a bit

TemporaryNickName

in past linux was very hard to learn

because it required a lot of commands to learn and etc

but now they have beautiful GUI (GNOME) just like windows

Matt Эллен

yeah, the good old days

TemporaryNickName

and Linux do not use a lot of resources like windows =D

+ it makes u look like geek & smart & get all the asses

Matt Эллен

heh, well it's only made me look like a geek. The other two, not so much

Kit

Yeah, so it's for a friend, so no linux.

I think you're smart, @Matt. That's your whole problem right there.

TemporaryNickName

12:15

aww

why

just recommend linux =D

Matt Эллен

@Kit thanks :)

Kit

No linux.

TemporaryNickName

Say yes to linux

Kit

rolls eyes You must be a student.

I'm emailing in sick today, but I've got to help my boys get ready to go to Gramma's. Back later.

Matt Эллен

CU

TemporaryNickName

12:19

how do you like to eat cheese?

i like it on pizza

Matt Эллен

with my mouth

TemporaryNickName

i like it on pizza or in cheeseballs

Matt Эллен

I like it on pizza, in sandwiches, on lasagne, in lumps...

I had spinach and ricotta cannelloni last night. that wwas good.

TemporaryNickName

how about eggs?

hmm sounds yum but never saw it before

Matt Эллен

I don't eat eggs much. fried or boiled or poached

TemporaryNickName

12:22

ricotta canelloni looks like pretty sick food

but my staple food is instant noodle because i'm a uni student and Korean

Matt Эллен

@TemporaryNickName tastes good

TemporaryNickName

@MattЭллен i'm pretty sure it does

only Italian food I can make with my own hand is Sketti

I copied recipe from watching Honey Boo * 2 child

Matt Эллен

ah. I don't make the cannelloni :D I buy it as a microwave meal for one

TemporaryNickName

ah ok

btw, I have a quick question. What is grammatical term to call usage of "that/who" and etc?

Matt Эллен

it depends

often they're determiners or pronouns

Time for lunch! CU

Monica

12:28

Hello

TemporaryNickName

CU

Monica

I wanted to post questions, but I think they may get closed

TemporaryNickName

12:42

►

Mistu4u

Hi all. I asked a question in ELL to which several answers have been posted. But Nobody in their answers bothered to clarify if 2nd form of the question is correct or not. Please have a look. I found no one currently in chat of ELL.So asking for help here.

2

Q: Conversion to question problem

Suppose a sentence is: You have no idea what the thing is. So if we convert it to question, what should be the correct form? 1 or 2? 1) Have you any idea what the thing is? 2) Have you any idea what is the thing? I dimly remember the second concept is grammatically correct.

questions

Monica

I often post question on Englishforums.com

They usually reply quickly

I think the first one is right

TemporaryNickName

I think you should say

Monica

Do you know where my mother is? The same structure

But I am not a native speaker

Mistu4u

But is the second structure wrong?

TemporaryNickName

12:50

Do you have any idea what the thing is? to convert "You have no idea what the thing is." as a question form.

Monica

Have you any idea what the thing is?

This is how it should be I think.

Mistu4u

And Have you any idea what is the thing?

Is it wrong?

This can also be converted to You have no idea what is the thing.

Monica

Yes, because 'is' should be placed at the end of the sentence. But I may be wrong

TemporaryNickName

@Mistu4u hold on

checking it from my grammar textbook lol!

Mistu4u

LOL :D

TemporaryNickName

12:55

I think

Using Have you... is grammatically called present perfect tenses (question form)

learnamericanenglishonline.com/Yellow%20Level/…

and if you see this site, have you... always follows up with a verb (maybe)

Ah ok, so "Do you have any idea..." is what you are looking for

=D

Mistu4u

And what about the phrase ....what the thing is?

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…