English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

JSBangs

15:02

@Robusto bring it. i ain't afraid of you

RegDwight

Just don't end up like Shinto.

Robusto

@JSBangs — Well, in a downvote war, I wonder who'll run out of rep first?

RegDwight

He got like a zillion reps from me and spent them all on downvoting, mostly myself.

@Robusto I'd rather wonder who'll run out of patience first.

Robusto

@RegDwight — I rarely downvote anybody, so don't worry. I certainly don't do it for spite.

But it's nice to know who loves ya and who don't.

JSBangs

@Robusto if you downvoted every single question and answer that i've posted, you'd succeed in reducing my rep by 300. i tremble in fear.

RegDwight

15:05

I'm not taking either of you seriously anyhow.

JSBangs

@Robusto i love ya, Robusto, but i calls 'em like i sees 'em

Robusto

@JSBangs — Lies!

RegDwight

@Robusto Them's fighting words where you come from.

Robusto

48 secs ago, by Robusto

@JSBangs — Lies!

RegDwight

amazon.com/28-Inflatable-Unicorn/dp/…

JSBangs

15:09

hey, we currently have 4,999 questions. one more to the big 5K!

Robusto

Wow, doesn't it just make you want to go out and buy an abacus?

RegDwight

@JSBangs I could undelete a few vgv8 questions. That would bring us to 6k in no time.

@Cerberus: you're spot on with your comment about prepositions, of course. I didn't want to veer off.

Cerberus

@Reg: That's what I thought.

RegDwight

I mean, as we all know, prepositions don't even have to appear before anything.

Cerberus

I have upvoted all the pictures; can I go now?

Yes, they do.

RegDwight

15:13

Wow, you're easy to be coerced into anything.

Robusto

OK, I posted another answer. Go ahead and downvote me again.

Cerberus

Surely you're not one of those people, preposition enders...

@Reg: I can be easy when I want to!

RegDwight

@Cerberus Yeah, on a second thought, you are right yet again, dammit. Even at the end of a sentence, it appears before the period.

Cerberus

That is a tautology or it isn't.

RegDwight

It could also be a litotes. I am fairly certain it is a litotes.

Cerberus

15:16

(I am practising Robustian humour in case you didn't notice.)

Robusto

@RegDwight — Stop trying to provoke me.

RegDwight

Whaddaya mean, trying.

Cerberus

Litotes? I don't see any litotes?

Robusto

@Cerberus — Dummy. You fell into his trap.

RegDwight

Hahahaha.

I rule.

The king rules but he doesn't govern.

The King rocks but he doesn't roll.

Robusto

15:17

Even the lowly pwn can beat a king.

RegDwight

Even a cat can look at a queen.

Robusto

The cats I know don't look at queens.

RegDwight

The queers I know don't look at cats.

Cerberus

@Rob: So I feared... his "fairly certain" sounded trappish. But it didn't seem like his kind of humour to use a random figure of speech instead: I'd have expected some special reason for picking "litotes". Perhaps he was imitating someone else's humour.

Cats! Yay!

Oh I already posted that picture.

RegDwight

I always pick litotes.

That not reason enough?

Cerberus

15:19

You mean there is never a time when you don't pick it?

RegDwight

@Cerberus That's a litotes.

Cerberus

Are you fairly certain?

RegDwight

I am certainly fair.

Tom

Hi folks, could I ask you a question about a sentence, whether it should contain a comma or not, please?

RegDwight

Well, if it's an actual sentence...)))

Cerberus

15:20

@Reg: Yeah your intelligence did betray your hair colour.

Hi Tom.

Tom

@RegDwight but I will remove it within 10 seconds just to be sure ;)

Ok, here goes:

Robusto

@RegDwight — Always taking it a step too far, aintcha?

Cerberus

The comma was right.

The rest I don't remember.

RegDwight

@Robusto No, a step too far would be using that other word for cats.

Tom

@Cerberus it was right? Because I asked an englishmen, and he said it should be removed

But he had no academic degree or anything

Just a native speaker

RegDwight

15:22

He's an alien, he's a legal alien.

Tom

Is that sentence 100% correct?

Cerberus

Oh, wait.

I had too little time to analyse the sentence the first time: you probably meant "As" temporal, in which case the comma was wrong.

RegDwight

It depends on what the meaning of the word "as" is.

Semi-jinx.

Tom

@RegDwight is the meaning not clear from the sentence?

Is the sentence not proper maybe?

Cerberus

It is clear enough.

Tom

15:23

So I should remove the comma then, alright, thanks. :)

Martha

Hmph. (removed) is not a sentence. And it doesn't contain a comma.

Tom

/me is paranoia.

Oh /me does not work.

Martha

What is /me supposed to do?

Cerberus

That is, your comma forced me to read "as" as a causal conjunction; the sentence would be possible with "as" causal, but it would make much more sense with "as" temporal, so lose the comma.

RegDwight

"I make it up as" is not the same as "I make it up, as".

Cerberus

15:25

*ass

RegDwight

Stop confusing people.

Cerberus

No you.

RegDwight

Okay, stopping...

... stopped.

Martha

@RegDwight Oh, you mean it's @Cerberus' fault that I'm confused? That's good to know, thanks.

RegDwight

Now what?

Cerberus

15:26

Meanwhile this unicorn answer is taking ages because chat keeps beeping me up!

RegDwight

Oh, I gotta help out with setting up Battlestar Galactica. Brb.

Martha

@Cerberus Unicorns? Where?

Cerberus

3

Q: Unicorn: what other words have this "cornus" etymology?

"Unicorn" comes from the French and late Latin, with the "cornus" part meaning "horn". I am wondering what other English words share this root. I could think of "rhinoceros". Can you think of something (or multiple somethings) else?

etymology

Robusto

@Martha — Frolicking in a field of baby ears.

Tom

@Martha well in many IM applications /me is being shown as if the user expresses an emotion or something

RegDwight

15:28

Us older folks know it from IRC.

Where /me would substitute your name, as if you were talking about yourself in 3rd person.

Tom

exactly

well, I don't consider myself old (I'm sure you'd agree), and still use IRC

RegDwight

Then perhaps I should inform you that /exit or /ban don't work here, either.

Tom

They don't? ;[

You're right.

RegDwight

/kick Tom.

Tom

Ouch :(

kiamlaluno

15:31

Just to completely inform you, nor does /bring-me-coffee work.

RegDwight

@Tom Hahaha.

@kiamlaluno That's because you misspelled beer.

Martha

@RegDwight I successfully resisted all forms of chat until StackExchange added it. Well, ok, and that Wreath meeting that had to move online because of Snowcalypse.

kiamlaluno

@RegDwight I don't ask for beer: I have it in the little refrigerator to my right.

RegDwight

@Martha I met my wife online. So we went through ICQ, Google Chat, and whatnot.

kiamlaluno

I must be older: I also used Palace.

Martha

15:34

My sister met her husband online (specifically UseNet). Their messages to each other tended to be excessively long (understatement alert), so they just used email.

RegDwight

@Martha We preferred to talk, rather than exchange letters.

Google Chat was followed by Skype.

But we actually first happened across each other on last.fm.

Robusto

@RegDwight — I met my wife through Craigs List.

Kidding!

Martha

@RegDwight Skype wasn't invented until several years after sis got married.

RegDwight

@Robusto I know. You're too old already.

Robusto

A guy I used to work with was totally against marriage. He frequented prostitutes instead. I asked him why, and he said, "If you're not paying money, you're paying too much." It was possibly the most cynical thing I ever heard before Dick Cheney became VP.

@RegDwight — I'm an American Dad. Guilty as charged.

RegDwight

15:37

Few people realize it, but last.fm succeeds where every single dating site fails.

Tom

@Robusto that's quite a conservative view to equal not being married with not having a long lasting relationship

RegDwight

So it looks like I'm being eagerly awaited at the Spieltisch...

Lemme see.

Robusto

@RegDwight — I presume you're what they call a "feeder"?

Tom

Eek, just the term brings up images I'd rather not see.. saw a documentary about the subject once

Robusto

Which term? Eeeek? Don't be dissin' our Eeeek! meme, dude.

RegDwight

15:40

Huh what? You mean feeder as in gaining weight for the fun of it?

Tom

@RegDwight rather as in making someone else gain weight

RegDwight

Yeah, same difference.

Tom

Alright, poker face again: in this sentence, should it be "whom" or "who"? I personally think it's whom but the native speaker disagrees firmly with me.

Robusto

@RegDwight — In a game like COD, people who have a very high death-to-kill ratio are said to be "feeding" the other players.

@Tom ... who ...

RegDwight

@Tom Who. Subject.

Robusto

15:43

Jinx

RegDwight

Mine was better.

Tom

Really? I guess I should feel embarrassed :[

I was so sure of it.. whom sounded much better.

Robusto

@RegDwight — No way.

RegDwight

Way.

@Tom "He argues that X". Not "Him argues that X".

Tom

@RegDwight you're right.. I should read about the who/whom difference again.. thanks.

RegDwight

15:46

Well, whom is on its way out anyway. So you can get away with using who instead of whom where it used to be awfully incorrect just a century ago, but not the other way round.

Tom

Ah, great, I'm all for simplification of.. well anything really. :)

RegDwight

Who you gonna call? Ghostbusters!

Obviously you call them, not they. Yet, who works.

Robusto

@RegDwight — A.K.A. "The Feeder"

RegDwight

@Robusto Indeed!

Robusto

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=feeder

Definition 2

RegDwight

15:51

Quit explaining it already.

I am not feeding anyone in Battlestar Galactica anytime soon.

Speaking of which, I'm out.

Martha

16:15

Did anyone do the MeetUp thing yesterday?

I wore my spiffy new StackExchange t-shirt, but that was as far as I got.

//crickets

JSBangs

i'm pretty sure there are no stack exchangers in my area

or at least, no one who wanted to go to a meetup

JPmiaou

In other news, the child has a third tooth. Upper left, one over from the middle.

Martha

Wait, you mean it's not one of her top front teeth? Is that normal?

psmears

16:39

Regarding the first-second-third person question that appeared yesterday (and was closed as off-topic because its main focus seemed to be about video games)

-2

Q: First, Second and Third Person perspectives in contexts other than grammar

As far as my limited understanding of grammar goes, I know that first person is written with "I" forms, second with "you" forms, and third with "he/her/it" forms. But I have also seen these terms (particularly "first person") used in non-grammatical contexts, for instance video games. How does t...

grammar terminology word-definitions

I've edited it so that (to my mind at least) it's a lot more on-topic

Is it now re-openable? Or does it still need some work?

Martha

I've put in my vote to re-open.

psmears

@Martha Thank you!

MrHen

@psmears I think it works great, now. Good job.

kiamlaluno

16:55

I still have to understand what the question is asking. What is the non grammatical usage of I?

Is the question asking about "the first person who enters," for example?

Martha

No, he's asking about the specific phrase "first person" (or "second person", etc.), but used in a context that isn't grammar-related. The example for "first person" is FPS = First Person Shooter, a specific type of video game.

kiamlaluno

Isn't that "first person view"?

JPmiaou

@Martha Not really, but there's a really wide range. According to one chart I looked at, she's supposed to have four teeth on the bottom and the two center front teeth up top, and the one that just came in isn't supposed to show up for another couple of weeks. Or something.

Gotta go rescue those peas I put on before coming upstairs on diaper duty.

psmears

17:11

@kiamlaluno There are a number of similar phrases that are common (FPS/first-person shooter is probably the most common, but also first-person perspective, first-person view, etc...)

kiamlaluno

@psmears I still don't understand what the definitive answer to the question would be.

If the question would be more specific, and ask for the meaning of a particular phrase, then it would be more acceptable.

psmears

@kiamlaluno What I have in mind would be briefly explaining what the meaning is in grammar, and then going over its uses in other contexts

It is asking for the meanings of the phrases "first person", "second person" and "third person" :-)

kiamlaluno

As it is now, it is like asking for the etymology of a town name, without to give any town name.

@psmears Is the answer supposed to report every meaning of "first person"?

psmears

@kiamlaluno Every meaning that is relevant and common

for example, the FPS example should be included, but "I was the first person to go into the room" should not (because it is not really related to the grammatical term)

kiamlaluno

@psmears In fact, the question is asking for every non grammatical meaning of "first person."

As it is now, the question should be closed as "subjective and argumentative," which is described as "It's impossible to objectively answer this question; questions of this type are too open ended and usually lead to confrontation and argument."

psmears

17:19

I'm not sure I follow...

the phrase "first person" surely has only a handful of meanings

One of them is the meaning in grammar (basically "I" / "we")

The question is asking for other, related meanings...

kiamlaluno

Exactly, it has an handful of meanings.

psmears

OK, but isn't that true of many words asked about on the site?

kiamlaluno

Therefore, it is too open ended.

psmears

It's a handful rather than hundreds - to my mind that's what stops it being open-ended

kiamlaluno

If the question doesn't specify in which context "first person" is being used, it's wide open. Are we supposed to copy the full page of the dictionary?

psmears

17:24

The dictionary I looked at only lists two meanings, one of which is the grammatical one...

kiamlaluno

The NOAD reports just a meaning for "first person," but I would find difficult to say that is not related with the grammatical sense.

"(the first person) a type of narrative in which the protagonist relates their story using the first person, i.e. using the pronoun ‘I’."

psmears

Right

kiamlaluno

Still, the reference is to the "first person" used grammatically.

psmears

That's a common usage that's not the grammatical one, because it describes a narrative style, rather than the subject of a specific sentence - in a typical first-person narrative there will typically be many sentences that are not, grammatically, first person

It is related

But the meaning is not identical

kiamlaluno

It's called "first person narrative" because of the pronoun being used.

psmears

17:30

Yes, I know that :-)

kiamlaluno

Differently, it would be "third person."

psmears

Indeed

But there are other aspects of it too that are not related to the purely technical grammatical term

kiamlaluno

" (the third person) a type of narrative in which the story is related by an omniscient narrator, using third-person forms."

psmears

For instance, in a first person narrative the narrator does not have insight into the thoughts of the other characters

That is not related to the way it is phrased grammatically :-)

kiamlaluno

Isn't "third-person form" referring to the grammatical meaning of "third person"?

psmears

17:32

Yes, it is certainly related

But it is not the same usage

For example - it is possible to write a first person narrative in which the vast majority of the pronouns/verbs/etc are in the third person

The term refers to the perspective or viewpoint from which the story is told

Not the grammatical form of any particular sentence within it

Which is where things like "omniscient" come in - that's not part of the grammatical definition :-)

kiamlaluno

Yet, it is called "first person narrative" because the grammatical meaning of "first person." If grammar would call I "singularity person," then the narrative would be called "singularity person narrative" or "singularity person."

psmears

Yes

That explains how it's derived

Not necessarily what it means

Words are often taken from one domain to another, because they express a different, but closely-related meaning

Robusto

psmears is right. "First person narrative" just refers to the point of view of the narrator.

kiamlaluno

I know what it refers to.

We use the same expression in Italian (prima persona).

Actually, we say narrativa in prima persona.

Robusto

@kiamlaluno — Then what is the confusion?

kiamlaluno

17:43

Still, asking for a non grammatical meaning of prima persona would be too broad.

psmears

But... the dictionary gives two meanings... and though there are more, I can't think of many that are in common use

It's not asking for any non-grammatical meaning

Just (as with asking about any word/expression) meanings that are commonly used and understood

I guess I'm not understanding how this question is any different to any other question that asks about meanings of a word/phrase

Many of them start "I've seen the phrase xxx used. I know it means yyy, but that doesn't fit in this context. What else does it mean?"

kiamlaluno

"How does the meaning from the grammatical context transfer to other contexts? Can the terms other than "first person" also be applied outside of a grammatical context in the same way?"

The question doesn't specify those "other contexts." It is too broad.

psmears

What would help?

Would it help to add "...in common use"?

The intention of my edit was to phrase it such that one could give the dictionary definitions, plus a few other common usages (such as FPS), as a definitive answer...

@kiamlaluno I would certainly say that the question was less broad than this one

3

Q: In what contexts would one use the slang word "minging" in British English?

I was watching a Youtube video on English accents, and in the middle of a Yorkshire one, I think, the author of the video used the word "minging", in what seemed to be an insult. So I have two questions: What's the definition of the word, and does it have any preferred phrases or contexts its u...

meaning british-english slang connotation

which didn't strike me as too broad when I read it...

kiamlaluno

@psmears In that question, the OP gave a precise context to the question.

psmears

"In what contexts would one use the word xxx"

Isn't that more or less the same as the question we're discussing?

(If anything it's even more open-ended?)

MrHen

17:59

@psmears Not how I see it

I see the question as, "What does X mean outside of pronouns?"

kiamlaluno

It doesn't ask you to think of all the cases where "first person" is used, then see if there is any connection with the grammatical meaning of "first person," and then reply.

MrHen

Well, as you have edited it, anyway

There is a solid, correct answer to the first/second/third question

Whether the question is on-topic is still in the air, as far as I can tell

I think the only reason it really ended up being closed was because the original question was so darn confusing

psmears

@kiamlaluno No, it asks you to think of all the cases where "minging" is used, and think of phrases to go with them... which sounds fairly open-ended, but actually isn't, because minging (like many words/phrases) is used in a limited number of contexts

@MrHen I agree - my view is that, at the core of the original question there was a valid, on-topic question - but that it was (and possibly still is) somewhat obscured

My aim is to make the question 100% on-topic and acceptable

MrHen

@psmears I completely agree.

@psmears Your edit is such a much better question

The real question here is, "First/second/third person is a term applied to (a) word forms and (b) perspectives. What are the definitions and uses regarding perspectives?

psmears

@MrHen Thanks :)

MrHen

18:05

At least, that is how I see it

psmears

I guess it may still need some more work though, judging by @kiamlaluno's reaction :)

MrHen

And that question has a solid, definitive answer

@psmears Well, reopening probably gets more scrutiny.

psmears

I'm wondering if there's something in the way it's phrased that makes it ambiguous, and I'm reading it one way, but it can also be read in another :-/

@MrHen Agreed, that's how I'd answer it

@MrHen True, and that's fair enough :)

kiamlaluno

@psmears It doesn't ask you to think of all the cases where "minging" is used. In fact, the question is about the meaning of the word in a specific context; it doesn't ask what you mean when you use it.

MrHen

@psmears I think the confusion is the term "grammar." It isn't helping the topic.

psmears

18:09

@kiamlaluno Yes it does - the title is: "In what contexts would one use the slang word ... in British English?"

MrHen

"Grammar" is mostly irrelevant. There are two sets of meanings: one is a technical definition for words; the other is a technical definition for narrative/perspective.

psmears

How is that not asking for all the contexts where it is used??

@MrHen Hmm, I see what you mean... I may try my hand at another revision...

kiamlaluno

@psmears Read the question, not the title.

MrHen

@kiamlaluno Can you think of a phrasing of this question that brings it back on-topic?

As in, do you see the question psmears and I are interested in?

psmears

@kiamlaluno OK... "...does it have any preferred phrases or contexts its used in?"

Even in the question it's still asking for the contexts where it is used...

MrHen

18:11

@psmears Similar phrasing for this question would be, "is first/second/third person used in other contexts?"

kiamlaluno

@psmears That is quite easy to answer: in informal contexts.

psmears

@kiamlaluno Do you really think that that would be an acceptable answer (given that the questioner mentions the word is slang, so clearly already knows it is for informal contexts)?

(and it ignores the "preferred phrases" part, too :-)

kiamlaluno

@psmears If you think that question is off-topic, why didn't you vote to close it?

MrHen

@kiamlaluno Good point.

psmears

@kiamlaluno My point is that I don't think the question is off-topic, and similarly I don't think the other question we're talking about (the 1st-person one) is off-topic either...

...at least, I think that it can be made on-topic

and I'm attempting to do so

If you have any suggestions for how best to edit it to achieve that, I would be very receptive to them

kiamlaluno

18:17

@psmears So far, you said that question is broader than the closed question.

MrHen

@psmears Focus on the meanings of the phrase "first/second/third person"

Include examples of "me/I, you, etc."

And then ask what other meanings exist and how they are used.

kiamlaluno

What MrHen suggested could work, but I still think the question is too broad.

MrHen

That question is much less specific than the original but at least it is on-topic

@kiamlaluno I don't think it is "broad." It just isn't specific.

psmears

@kiamlaluno Yes... my reasoning goes like this: Question M ("minging") is broader than Question P ("1st/2nd/3rd person"); Question M is not too broad; therefore question P is not too broad either

MrHen

We get questions like, "What does X mean?" all the time

"What else does X mean?" seems fine to me

kiamlaluno

18:19

@psmears It doesn't work that way.

psmears

@MrHen I see what you're driving at (I hope) and will attempt to improve it...

kiamlaluno

"Aristotle is greek; Aristotle is a man. Therefore, all men are Greek."

MrHen

@psmears I wouldn't put too much work into it, though. The author seems a bit touchy.

psmears

@kiamlaluno I'm very confused then... how are you suggesting it should work?

kiamlaluno

"First/second/third person is a term applied to (a) word forms and (b) perspectives. What are the definitions and uses regarding perspectives?"

psmears

18:21

@kiamlaluno That is a false syllogism and is nonsense, I'll agree

But mine is different

MrHen

@psmears "Broad" doesn't have a measurable number attached to it. You cannot just say, "Oh, this is less broad than that."

kiamlaluno

That is the suggestion made from MrHen.

Robusto

@kiamlaluno — Classic case of failure to distribute the middle term of a syllogism. ^)^

MrHen

@kiamlaluno Does that seem good to you?

kiamlaluno

@Robusto Hey! I always loved to write that sentence. :-)

For once, I was able to use it.

psmears

18:23

@MrHen In general, no, of course :). But sometimes it's clear from the form that one is more or less broad than the other...

MrHen

@psmears Agreed.

kiamlaluno

@MrHen It seems better, to me.

psmears

@kiamlaluno Except that it doesn't apply to my example...

MrHen

@kiamlaluno Haha, I guess I'll take "better." ;)

psmears

"Some syllogisms are wrong. What psmears said was a syllogism. Therefore psmears is wrong" :-p

kiamlaluno

18:25

@psmears Well, it seemed to me the same kind of reasoning you were doing.

It should be "all psmears," or "some psmears."

Rhodri

@kiamlaluno Sorry, no, that reasoning is very different

@psmears was relying on the transitivity of the "broader than" relationship

psmears

@Rhodri Indeed...

Rhodri

That can go wrong if the concept of breadth doesn't apply in the same way to the two questions (i.e. if we have an unhelpful partial ordering).

Robusto

Hey, do "mingy" and "minging" come from the same root, or do they at least have a commingled origin? As I understand it, mingy means stingy, minging means foul or unpleasant.

kiamlaluno

@Rhodri I am not sure there is any "transitivity" that works for "broader than."

Martha

18:31

@psmears This is not a syllogism. Mathematically, it can be stated as M > P and M < B, therefore P < B. Which is perfectly correct. (M = minging question, P = 1st/2nd/3rd person question, B = too broad.)

psmears

I don't know how much a chicken costs, but I know that $100 is more than enough. If have $200 then I know I can afford a chicken...

Rhodri

@kiamlaluno A > B. A < L. Therefore B < L. Straightforward logic.

Jinx!

Martha

(Actually, that's directed at @kiamlaluno, but I wanted to point at the original statement.)

kiamlaluno

Then, the reasoning was "X is a broad question, and it has not been closed; Y is less broad and it has been closed."

Rhodri

The obvious conclusion being that we have an inconsistency somewhere.

kiamlaluno

18:32

The reasoning is faulty, as question Y has not been closed because it was too broad.

Martha

@kiamlaluno The close reason is irrelevant: you've been arguing that it shouldn't be reopened because it's too broad.

kiamlaluno

@Martha That my thought, not why the question has been closed.

Rhodri

Gah, I'm going to be late for choir practice again. See you all later.

Martha

Ok, apparently I'm not getting across too well.
- Question was closed (for being off-topic)
- Question was edited to make it more on-topic
- Some people voted to re-open the question
- You (@kiamlaluno) said no, it's now too broad to be answered
- An example was given that shows that no, it's not too broad

kiamlaluno

It is relevant if you are saying that a less broad question has not been closed.

Martha

18:39

In other words, if you believe that the question is still off-topic, you should say that, not that it's too broad to be answered.

psmears

@Martha Yep, I know mine wasn't a syllogism; I was protesting kiamlaluno's comparison between my reasoning and invalid examples of syllogisms :)

Martha

7 mins ago, by Martha

(Actually, that's directed at @kiamlaluno, but I wanted to point at the original statement.)

psmears

@Martha Ah, OK (still catching up) :)

kiamlaluno

@Martha I think it's too broad, and it should not be re-opened.

Martha

@kiamlaluno Ok, so does that mean you think the minging question should also be closed?

kiamlaluno

18:41

@Martha Does that change anything? Nobody voted to close that question.

Even if I would vote to close it, it would not be automatically closed because I voted to close it.

Martha

@kiamlaluno Consistency requires that if you think this question is too broad and should remain/be closed, then you should also think a broader question should be closed.

kiamlaluno

@Martha I already said what I think about the other question. If that matters, I didn't vote to close the "first person" question.

Martha

@kiamlaluno Forgive me, but I'm too lazy to look it up: what do you think about the minging question?

kiamlaluno

If you are asking me to be coherent with my actions, I am coherent because I didn't vote to close the "first person" question, nor did I vote to close the other one.

The other question cannot be broader, as it describes exactly in which context the OP heard the word. As he accepted an answer, I get who replied understood what he meant.

psmears

@kiamlaluno True, but the reason for the confusion (on my part at least) is that you appear to be arguing that the "first person" question should remain closed because it's too broad, but that "minging" should remain open - but this seems (again, to me) inconsistent, because the "minging" is just as broad as the "first person" one, if not more so...

kiamlaluno

18:49

@psmears You are titled of your opinion.

psmears

@kiamlaluno But it doesn't actually ask about the context in which he heard the word - that's only included in the question as the motivation - it asks about the contexts where it can be used

@kiamlaluno Sure, and I'm trying to understand yours...

...in order to improve the question :)

kiamlaluno

@psmears I am not a moderator that can reopen the question with his vote. I feel the question is too abstract, IMO.

psmears

@kiamlaluno I'm not asking you to reopen it :) But if you think it's too broad then others may do too... so I want to understand your point of view, which is why was discussing it with you... I'm sorry if it seemed argumentative, but I'm just trying to figure out your reasoning :)

Anyway, I will take your input and @MrHen's, and attempt to come up with an improved question...

... but not until I've eaten dinner :)

kiamlaluno

19:05

@psmears The question should keep the original meaning, or it becomes a different question. Maybe it should be the OP who changes it following the indications given in comments. I don't know in which way the question would become on-topic, if it is considered on-topic for linguistics.SE from who closed it.

F'x

great, now I find a nice question that I know exactly how to answer, and it's already been asked and closed as a duplicate!

kiamlaluno

@Fx It seems to me that you knew how to answer to many other questions. :-)

@Fx By the way, congratulations; you are now a 10k user.

I know, I am late with the congratulations.

F'x

@kiamlaluno thanks; no worry, it's still quite new to me

it takes some getting used to

the way other people look at me when I walk in the street, all that…

kiamlaluno

Yes, I know. Be careful of who says they want an autograph, and instead they make you sign a contract to work for them free.

F'x

well, I have only one sould to sell, and I parted with it a long time ago

kiamlaluno

19:19

If you get a date, ask first if her brother is not a manager, or something like that.

It's better I don't write when my Mac is backing up (it gets too slow when it does that). I will go to eat something, in the while.

I think I could have a wedding lunch/dinner before it is done.

OK, off to eat I go.

psmears

@kiamlaluno Of course it should keep its original meaning... as in, any edit to it should try to ensure that the information the questioner is seeking will still be covered by valid answers. But that doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed, even quite substantially...

... it can often be the case that, when someone doesn't know a lot about a topic, they don't even know enough to express their question precisely... (not saying that's definitely true in this case)

But in this particular case the questioner has indicated he's OK with the question being edited to be on topic

so I think I'm safe ;-)

psmears

19:38

OK all

I have edited the question once again

-2

Q: First, Second and Third Person perspectives

I am aware of the terms first person, second person and third person from grammar, but I have also seen them used in other contexts, in particular first person perspective with regard to video games. What is the precise meaning of first person perspective? Can the terms second person and third p...

grammar terminology word-definitions

Please do let me know whether you think this an improvement :-)

Martha

Different subject: check out the timestamps on these answers

Spooky. :)

@psmears (I've already put in my vote to reopen, so there's nothing else I can do at this point.)

psmears

@Martha Spooky indeed... BTW is there a way to look at precise timestamps of questions?

(Not so much for this question actually, but more for ones where all the answers say "3 days ago" and it would be interesting to see which order they arrived in...)

Martha

@psmears Yes: hover over the date stamp.

psmears

19:53

Thank you! I've been on these sites a while now, and it seems there are still hard-to-discover features lurking :-/

I often access the site from my phone, where hovering is not really a viable option due to the touch screen (it can be done, but it's very fiddly...)

BTW @Martha, how are you getting to grips with life post-envelope?

I ask because I notice the /users/recent page recently disappeared

(And I'm finding life on EL&U a tad more annoying as a result...)

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…