English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwighт

15:00

Well I can't tell for sure who downvoted you on that particular occasion. But there is a clear leader by the total number of downvotes on your stuff.

Thursagen is in the top 5.)))

Robusto

@RegDwighт So is there any recourse? This is getting tiresome.

RegDwighт

I can start keeping tabs. As I did with Thursagen.

But other than that, let them lose that point if they so choose. Meanwhile you get upvotes from other people that more than make up for your minus two.

Robusto

Still pisses me off.

RegDwighт

Fcoz.

I have a nice collection myself. Answers with +53 -1.

At least it's hidden by default.

Robusto

Fcoz? That's a new one on me.

RegDwighт

15:04

It's when you have a sexual relationship with that Wizard.

Robusto

@RegDwighт Thursagen can still downvote?

RegDwighт

No.

Robusto

Then he must have done a lot in a short time.

RegDwighт

Which is sort of my point. He managed to get quite some in before he got nuked.

Robusto

Did that include sock puppets?

RegDwighт

15:05

All puppets we knew of got merged into main.

Robusto

When puppets get merged do vote tallies get merged or added together?

RegDwighт

You can't vote twice on same post.

Of course only devs really know all the details.

Robusto

@RegDwighт So when he got merged, I should have seen a positive change in rep score if all his various puppet votes were merged. But I didn't.

RegDwighт

Then the puppets didn't vote on your stuff, or at all.

user19161

I am eagerly awaiting the return of Thursagen.

RegDwighт

15:08

Remember that it takes 125 to be able to cast a single downvote. Which immediately kicks you below the threshold again.

Robusto

That sounds unlikely. And unlike him.

user19161

It will be fun to see what Thursagen posts after he returns.

RegDwighт

Wevs. You lost only a couple dozen points to your top downvoter. Even less to Thursagen. You get twice that many back before breakfast on any given day. From passive rep alone.

user19161

@RegDwighт Can we see who is the top downvoter of a user?

RegDwighт

I can.

Robusto

15:10

"So nat'ralists observe, a flea
Hath smaller fleas that on him prey;
And these have smaller fleas to bite 'em.
And so proceeds Ad infinitum."

RegDwighт

It's fleas all the way down.

Robusto

You forgot the bedbugs.

user19161

I think my top downvoter must be Reg.

RegDwighт

No, I just didn't mention them.

@JasperLoy I'm not even on the list.

user19161

Or maybe Kris, or Fumble, or Bill.

RegDwighт

15:13

Maybe. I can't be looking up every user ever. And I won't tell you anything if I did.

user19161

It's OK, I am not interested anyway.

RegDwighт

Looks like I'm among your top 70 upvoters, though.

user19161

Can we get all this from SEDE?

tchrist

@Rob Because I now and then go prowling through old posts, I often end up casting a vote on something that has unlikely been voted on for a long time — and not solely upvotes, either. So I self-consciously checked the posting you just complained of as being enemy action, and indeed, I had indeed already voted on that one.

RegDwighт

@JasperLoy Votes are not included in the dump, silly.

tchrist

15:14

However, it was an upvote, so is not what you are looking for.

user19161

@RegDwighт Wow, I should be a mod to see these secrets!

RegDwighт

They are boring.

This is the first time in like a year that I checked anybody's votes.

Except for the people who were suspected of sockpuppeting.

tchrist

What do you mean, check their votes?

RegDwighт

Check who likes to downvote Rob the most.

tchrist

Oh!

user19161

15:16

Well, mods can see some voting patterns but not individual votes.

RegDwighт

Exactly.

tchrist

I didn’t realize that that was possible without employee help to peel back the anonymity.

user19161

How do I know? Because I created SE, MWAHAHAHA.

user19161

JA and JS report to me daily, making me JAS.

user19161

By the way, MWAHAHAHA appears in ODO, MWAHAHAHA.

RegDwighт

15:18

@tchrist it's cumulative and there are all kinds of thresholds before it's even collected. It's about as useful as knowing we get 32 questions a day. You can't tell anything from that number alone.

user19161

@RegDwighт Of course, you know that I am Santa Claus!

tchrist

People hit by serial-voting sprees get records in their rep logs when those inevitably get reversed. If it is a serial downvote spree, does that mean there is a matching record in the downvoter’s rep log? Wouldn’t that be a privacy problem?

KitFox

Hmm. That's interesting.

tchrist

You’re welcome. I knew you wanted a larger litter. :)

RegDwighт

@tchrist rep logs are only partially public. Go check my rep log, I'll wait.

user19161

15:20

They should make voting public, that way people won't dare to cast blindly, MWAHAHAHA.

KitFox

@tchrist What's that now?

tchrist

It is me teasing you.

I asked about vixen and kits.

Because I was Brunhilding.

KitFox

I have never been able to make heads or tails out of that crazy chart on the votes page either.

tchrist

But only in chat.

user19161

I don't understand 90 per cent of the stuff said in this room.

tchrist

15:21

We know.

KitFox

@tchrist Oh. I don't get it.

user19161

So I stopped trying to figure every line out.

Robusto

So today is Put Away Hats day?

RegDwighт

I have downvoted like eight posts this morning. At least two got subsequently deleted so I got the points back. You won't be able to tell from my rep log.

tchrist

@KitFox I asked ten more questions to get Brunhilde, the thing you — and I — had thought impossible. So my last question was in chat, about what if you had had ten more kits. Kinda. It was allusive.

@RegDwighт I normally get at least 45 votes per day.

user19161

15:22

How come some posts are deleted and my rep record says +1 but no increase in my rep?

KitFox

@tchrist Oh.

RegDwighт

@JasperLoy that's because you're responsible for the other 10 percent.

tchrist

I have a rep mystery that I thought would sort itself out in a minute or three, but never did. Watch this:

user19161

@reg Is there something that says you get to keep your rep from an answer you provided if the post that was deleted was around for more than X days?

tchrist

Why isn’t rover at 38? It says 18.

Robusto

15:25

Those are recent scores.

tchrist

It is a recent question.

Some of the multiparagraph score is from yesterday. Almost all of it, in fact.

Robusto

They don't do the cumulative score in the rollover unless they're all within a certain time period.

tchrist

Hm.

Ok.

user19161

@robusto I thought you RAGEQUIT.

tchrist

Thanks.

Robusto

15:27

@JasperLoy You just noticed my presence this moment?

RegDwighт

@JasperLoy 3 or more upvotes, and 3 or more months.

Robusto

Meh, gotta go ta meeting. AFK.

user19161

@Robusto I will try to divine who downvoted you.

user19161

@RegDwighт Ah, then I need not fear losing hundreds of rep!

user19161

Fumble and I have a very interesting time together. He often reverses his votes on my posts multiple times.

tchrist

15:29

I actually think I know who has been dinging me. I don’t want anything “done” about it, but I thought I should tell you the innovative way I gathered the evidence.

RegDwighт

So how come I don't see anybody wearing a red nose when they're wearing Guide my Sleigh?

The nose is in the sprite, I just checked!

user19161

@tchrist Can you say who? I think it is alright to disclose your guess...

tchrist

The guess doesn’t matter.

The method does.

user19161

But I would like to know, if it is not secret.

tchrist

It turns out that once you have reviewed stuff in the review queues, you can backup in those queues and see how others have voted.

RegDwighт

15:31

Yes.

But your question could not have been in any queue.

tchrist

It turns out that there is one particular user who has an incredibly high correlation of voting opposite to how I vote, either direction. This suggests that this user thinks about things in a way opposite to how I think.

user19161

Well, considering how strict some of us may be when we vote others, we can expect to be downed as well.

tchrist

I do not mean there is collusion. It is an emergent property.

RegDwighт

user19161

@tchrist I often upvote posts you downvote I think.

tchrist

15:32

I know you do.

RegDwighт

So I see the nose here. It's not transparent.

Then I guess it can only be the size of the overlay.

Doesn't really make sense, but...

user19161

I am wondering how come I have cast so many downvotes here.

user19161

Must be some time ago when I felt evil.

RegDwighт

Same.

user19161

Hey @corn!

RegDwighт

15:34

I don't get it.

cornbread ninja

blog.makezine.com/2013/01/02/… @RegDwighт @Mr.Shiny

RegDwighт

Yeah we discussed that.

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy hey yourself!

tchrist

@RegDwighт What were you expecting?

cornbread ninja

@RegDwighт good, good.

user19161

15:35

@cornbreadninja You have been infected with mahnax!

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy yikes

RegDwighт

@tchrist I'm missing my nose.

Or anybody else's, for that matter.

user19161

In other news, it seems I need to be overseas for 3 weeks in May for reservist training, sad panda.

RegDwighт

It's in the sprite. Both in the 128px version used for the gravatar and the 32px version used for the Your Hats popup.

But it's not displayed in either.

KitFox

I think the sprite must be a red herring.

tchrist

15:38

This was reported on MSO, IIRC.

@JasperLoy didn’t know you were Jewish.

RegDwighт

Oh. Was it?

KitFox

Oh. They just cut the nose off, don't they?

user19161

@tchrist Wow, that is quite a deep line...

KitFox

To spite their faces.

RegDwighт

@KitFox that's the only guess I have left, yes. Not that it makes sense. See the raybans and the moustaches.

KitFox

15:40

@RegDwighт Those are about the same size, aren't they? They shift in the sprite.

RegDwighт

Guess so. The abbey suggests that.

KitFox

I don't know. I shouldn't even speak. I don't know anything about this stuff.

coughs Sorry, something stuck in my throat there.

user19161

HAHAHAHAHA

user19161

So secretive @kit!

RegDwighт

8

Q: Where´s the red nose of the Guide my Sleigh hat

I recently put my Guide my Sleigh hat on but my red nose is missing.

KitFox

15:42

Oh. Maybe I do know something.

RegDwighт

@KitFox I wasn't, but then I was. Obviously.

KitFox

I had no idea you were in Mongolia.

That explains the togrogs.

RegDwighт

I'm in Andøy.

10

Q: When did I move to Andøy, Norway?

Possible Duplicate: Why does my location in stackoverflow profile change? If you currently check my profile, it says my location is "Andøy, Norway". I'm sure Andøy, Norway is a lovely place (løvely?) and have nothing against it, but I certainly didn't set that location myself, so I ...

support location

KitFox

Andøy, Mongolia. Yeah. Saw it in your profile.

Because that makes sense.

RegDwighт

Everything makes sense if you wait long enough.

KitFox

15:46

It looks beautiful there.

Funny flag.

user19161

I know where Reg is, but I will keep mum.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Never answered. But I recalled it was there. Maybe you are not Rudolf after all. Do they have have reindeer in your country?

KitFox

We have reindeer here. We call them caribou.

user19161

We have rain here but not deer. We call it rain.

KitFox

Hahaha

user19161

15:49

HAHAHA

KitFox

I don't even know what to do with myself right now.

I have bugs in production that I can't reproduce and my very helpful tester keeps giving me more little things...

I moved offices this morning though!

I have my own office that's really mine now.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox I'm so used to doing everything with you / planning everything for two

tchrist

@KitFox Er, kinda. Reindeer are domesticated caribou. Right?

KitFox

Do you want to see my office? Shall I take a picture?

@tchrist Are they? I thought they were different names for the same animal.

user19161

@KitFox Yes!

RegDwighт

15:53

@tchrist in order to have reindeer you first have to have deer, negate them, and repeat the process.

I thought we established I was lazy.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox yes!

tchrist

@KitFox I don’t know.

I do believe I’ve just tied Barrie in black magic, but it will take a bit for the script to run. They don’t do silvers all the time.

MετάEd

@RegDwighт In India they have Sundeer.

tchrist

We have snowdeer.

RegDwighт

Don't let the Sundeer down on me.

MετάEd

15:55

There's reindeer in my beer.

tchrist

That snowdeer — it’s a moose.

MετάEd

Since I'm reigning over you.

@tchrist I like a moose.

RegDwighт

Reindeer, rausdeer.

tchrist

Marvelous!

1

A: Why don’t we write poetry like Beowulf any longer?

Literacy, pens, paper, the printing press. A written culture has different restrictions than an oral culture dependant on ease of repetition from memory. According to the University of Wisconsin Digital Collections Center: Beowulf is the oldest narrative poem in the English language, embody...

I need @Matt or @Andrew.

I thought poetic meter was always spelt thus, even in the UK.

KitFox

Matt Эллен

15:58

hmmm

KitFox

Well, it's hard to get a good angle.

That's the view from my desk.

Matt Эллен

nice

you've god a black board!

you can teach us things

KitFox

And it is just as spacious as it looks.

tchrist

Ooh, I remembered my lost question.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox is that your cycle?

KitFox

15:59

I do have a blackboard! And it is going to get resurfaced into a markerboard so it is actually useful.

RegDwighт

And you've got very clean streets or an unused bike.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Yes.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox nice

tchrist

I was once chidden for saying “as per” in a play when the line actually called for just “per”. Is as per the same sort of silliness as thusly?

Matt Эллен

I didn't now you cycled to work!

KitFox

16:00

pish posh. That bike is filthy!

Matt Эллен

I guess I've not been paying enough ettention

KitFox

With dust.

Because it just decorates my office.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist apparently we spell it metre

KitFox

But one of these days I will ride it.

RegDwighт

Beatiful multi-colored dust that forms meaningful patterns on floor contact.

user19161

16:01

@KitFox Looks like my blue!!!

KitFox

My project lead left the rug for me.

RegDwighт

@KitFox so he can pull it out from under you.

KitFox

@JasperLoy Oh yeah. So it does.

@RegDwighт Haha. Likely.

RegDwighт

It really ties the room together.

Matt Эллен

it's nicer than my rug

KitFox

16:01

I reluctantly agree.

user19161

@KitFox Both the chair and the bin. This is a miracle!

KitFox

I helped paint the office two years ago on service day, so at least the color is nice.

Robusto

0

A: Why don’t we write poetry like Beowulf any longer?

Who says we don't? Have you listened to rap or hip-hop lately? Anglo-Saxon poetry like Beowulf was heavily beat-based and while it didn't involve rhyme it used alliteration instead. The lines were recited to four stressed beats to a line with a coesura halfway between each one. I have long consid...

KitFox

And I'm pleased to announce that I spend ungodly sums of money on the bedroom redecoration. The only thing left to buy is paint and new curtains.

RegDwighт

Oh FFS. Another I vs. me question.

user19161

16:04

@KitFox Yes, some blue in the bedroom will be nice!

RegDwighт

Commute.

KitFox

@JasperLoy No blue in the bedroom!

I'm trying something new.

tchrist

Commute.

KitFox

Browns and reds.

user19161

THen you can make a blue film!

KitFox

16:06

I've already done that.

user19161

I make such films in my mind. =)

KitFox

Most people do.

Speaking of, lunchtime. Later.

tchrist

Yup, Necromancer #10. There ya go.

@Robusto Thanks.

Robusto

NP.

@tchrist I don't indulge in the black arts; I merely dabble.

tchrist

Tolkien maintains that beat poetry is still “natural” to English. He gives lots of examples for why.

The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún

The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún is a narrative poem composed by J. R. R. Tolkien. The book was released worldwide on May 5, 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt and HarperCollins. Written by Tolkien during the 1920s and the 1930s, inspired by the legend of Sigurd and the fall of the Niflungs from Norse mythology. It is composed in a form of alliterative verse inspired by the traditional poetry of the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century. Christopher Tolkien has added copious notes and commentary upon his father's work. Plot The New Lay of the Völsungs Upphaf After the creation of ...

But you have to read the book, not the Wikipedia article, to get his examples.

It is in the commentary/essays, not the poem itself.

cornbread ninja

16:09

@KitFox ooh!

tchrist

Which is of that ilk.

2 from repcap. Must mute.

There we go. 203. Done.

user19161

16:28

@matt Are you here?

Matt Эллен

aye

user19161

@MattЭллен Would you like to accept my cheap answer to your question?

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy which question?

user19161

OMG!!!

Matt Эллен

oh, was that the historical one?

user19161

16:29

Yes.

Matt Эллен

:D

yeah, I was just waiting to see if any more people voted

I guess it's probably got as much attention as it can

Robusto

Voted for what?

Matt Эллен

the answer

I think people are more likely to view a question without an accepted answer

but maybe that's superstitious bunkum

Robusto

I think that's probably true.

@MattЭллен *buncombe

Matt Эллен

1

Q: Archaic vs Historical in dictionaries

At Oxford Dictionaries Online the word alderman is marked as "chiefly historical", whereas ere is marked as "literary or archaic". I've looked around on the ODO site, but I can't find a guide to explain the difference. To me they both mean "old and not really used any more". How does archaic di...

differences terminology

@Robusto ah, the Cornish spelling ;)

Robusto

16:33

@MattЭллен The accepted answer there is wrong, I think.

@MattЭллен No. It's originally an American word, which referred to a county in North Carolina. How it got simplified in the BrE version is beyond me.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto perhaps. I don't know the correct answer, but that one's got 3 up votes

@Robusto oh! how exciting. maybe revenge for Webster

Robusto

@MattЭллен "...a historical word is one used to describe a thing of the past." Not true. A historical word is one that is no longer used at all, but is part of the history of the language. It is a word that no modern speaker would recognize, unless he were well-versed in the language's history.

Matt Эллен

except that alderman is marked as historical, and is still used

Robusto

Then that's an error on the part of whoever marked it as historical.

Matt Эллен

curse the OED!

Robusto

16:36

Historically, alderman comes from OE ealdorman.

That's probably the sense that they meant historical: that when people speak of an Anglo-Saxon ealdorman they usually substitute the modern variant alderman.

Matt Эллен

but in anglo-saxon it meant elder man, whereas alderman is someone in some sort of political office

KitFox

I was just ealdling in my garden the other day.

Matt Эллен

!!

@Robusto oh, my mistake. OK, maybe that's what they mean

Robusto

@MattЭллен It meant a person of importance.

KitFox

An elder, as it were.

This sandwich is surprisingly good, considering it is not the pulled pork I had in mind.

Robusto

16:40

Yes. But more precisely, a person of political importance.

KitFox

I thought all elders were politically important.

Robusto

Witenagemot

The Witenagemot (Old English witena gemōt "meeting of wise men"), also known as the Witan (more properly the title of its members) was a political institution in Anglo-Saxon England which operated from before the 7th century until the 11th century. The Witenagemot was an assembly of the ruling class whose primary function was to advise the king and whose membership was composed of the most important noblemen in England, both ecclesiastic and secular. The institution is thought to represent an aristocratic development of the ancient Germanic general assemblies, or folkmoots. In England, by...

Read about the ealdormen there.

KitFox

That sounds familiar.

I might have read a series of books with that stuff in it.

Robusto

Yeah, you read some of my books. I used the word.

> In England, by the 7th century, these ancient folkmoots had developed into convocations of the land's most powerful and important people, including ealdormen, thegns, and senior clergy, to discuss matters of both national and local importance.

And now for some modern-day aldermen.

Matt Эллен

> g. Brit. In form A (without point). Adult, denoting a film, or a classification given to a film, considered to be suitable only for adults or children accompanied by an adult. Now hist.

that's in the entry A (noun)

KitFox

16:44

Racy.

Speaking of adult, I am right next to the conference room now. Think of all the fun I will have changing in my office without closing the door!

Matt Эллен

!!

Robusto

@KitFox Pix or it didn't happen.

KitFox

:D

I would if it wouldn't get me in trouble.

I do it all the time though, when I bother to change to go exercise. When I bother to exercise.

Matt Эллен

@Robusto can't you see @Kit's avatar? totally naked.

KitFox

Oh, right. I was going to change my avatar.

Maybe I should use my real face.

Matt Эллен

16:57

:O

As you can see, I use my real face.

but only at EL&U

KitFox

Is that your O-face?

Matt Эллен

:D something like that

this is face I use when I'm feeling prickly: :Þ

KitFox

Maybe I should use someone else's face and pretend it is mine.

Matt Эллен

whose would you use?

Robusto

Or you could use your real face and pretend it's someone else's.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…