English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

17:00

HAHAHAHAHA

Robusto

Jasper is braying again.

KitFox

And the sanitary items. Those are expensive.

Robusto

TMI

user19161

I remember I once talked about toilet paper in this room.

Matt Эллен

and all that ass milk women bathe in

user19161

17:01

I was saying how some kinds tore so easily that you have to keep folding them to use them.

Jez

ass milk? eww

Robusto

toilet paper n. any print publication owned by Rupert Murdoch

KitFox

And the cell phone use. I mean, think how much more money women spend than men because of their communication needs.

So I think it really all just comes out in the wash.

Jez

@KitFox that's why most plans these days come with 5000+ free minutes a month

Matt Эллен

indeed. all men's conversations last about 3 words, max

Robusto

17:02

@MattЭллен Two if you use a contraction: "Wanna fuck?"

Matt Эллен

@Robusto woah there Mr. Verbose. "Fuck?"

Andrew Leach

@Robusto Or even just "Wanna?"

Jez

that could be an unsure interjection

KitFox

I thought it was usually grunting.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox pretty much everything else can be implied

Robusto

17:05

@MattЭллен I tend to beat around the bush.

user19161

@Robusto Men and women are not much different actually. Both need sex and other things as well.

Robusto

I consider the extra word to be in lieu of foreplay.

Matt Эллен

lol

Jez

@JasperLoy men get horny way easier

KitFox

What's foreplay?

user19161

17:06

@Jez Well, maybe you haven't met the horny women yet!

Matt Эллен

it's like a foreword only in a play

Jez

@JasperLoy sure havent

user19161

@jez How is your dating success?

Robusto

For women, sex is chemistry; for men, physics.

Jez

bad

user19161

17:07

@Robusto For both, biology. QED.

Robusto

Mahlzeit.

Matt Эллен

tip for chatting up someone in a club: don't be too drunk to continue the conversation, eventually the other person will stop talking.

user19161

@Jez There can be miracles when you believe.

Matt Эллен

toodles

Jez

we got the most delicious chocolates today, from some thankful customer or something

i'm amazed coffee flavouring isn't used as a filling more often

Gigili

17:13

Anyone wants to reopen my question? Feel free to do so!

1

Q: What does "listing" mean?

In the following context, what does "listing" mean? I couldn't find its definition online, there were a few suggestions but none of them fit. There has been considerable external demand to buy into it but this privilege is currently exclusive to our current shareholders under their preferred ...

user19161

@Gigili Haven't you gotten adequate explanation?

Gigili

@JasperLoy I am not talking to you.

user19161

@Gigili Sure, I won't talk to you either.

Andrew Leach

@Gigili I don't suppose you're talking to me either.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Yes, please don't talk to me. I am sick of your responses.

@AndrewLeach Right, you're the one who first voted to close it. It's not logical to vote to reopen it.

user19161

17:17

@andrew You mustn't talk to her now.

Gigili

What a kindergarten!

user19161

One can vote to close and then vote to reopen if one changes one's mind.

user19161

It is not illogical at all.

Andrew Leach

@JasperLoy Or if the question has been changed.

KitFox

17:55

I hate styling. I hate it.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox I burn myself on the curling iron.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja kisses boo boo

cornbread ninja

@KitFox coos, runs off to play

ugh, I am fat of late

KitFox

Me too. Makes me hungry thinking about it.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox :(

I just want to exercise all afternoon.

KitFox

18:02

I want to figure out how to style this effing treeview.

cornbread ninja

18:17

@KitFox I wish I could help you.

KitFox

Me too.

Mitch

@Gigili It looks very well answered by the given answer and links. Is there a nuance you want? (as a native speaker, I find the word in that use particularly bland/uninformative, but it is perfectly correct in the technical usage. I am used to hearing it as for the notice that a house is on sale (a real estate agent has a house 'listed' and has many 'listings' that they are working on (trying to sell).

Matt Эллен

@KitFox with panache?

Mitch

@KitFox also, they need staff to change light bulbs.

Matt Эллен

or maybe joie de vivre?

Mitch

18:22

a certain je ne sais quoi?

or elan?

KitFox

I'm getting there, but I can't figure out why it isn't not putting the underline there.

Mitch

you're doing this in jquery or straight css?

I use those words because I heard them once.

Matt Эллен

is there per-element styling with text-decoration:none?

KitFox

@MattЭллен It's an anchor, but I've removed that kind of styling before. I can't figure out where it is putting it back in.

Because I can't hover and move my mouse simultaneously.

I figure there must be some smarter way of checking.

Johan Larsson

Is "I highly suggest ..." ok English?

KitFox

18:27

It's great.

Matt Эллен

yes

@KitFox have you looked with firebug?

KitFox

Yeah, that's what I mean.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson depends on what comes after.

KitFox

It says the text-decoration: none is the style that's being applied.

Johan Larsson

I highly suggest using matrices for this type of manipulations. It is the most generic approach, see example below:

(for an SO answer)

KitFox

18:28

Except I can't see all of it because I haven't figured out how to hover and look through the CSS at the same time.

Matt Эллен

ah

KitFox

@JohanLarsson Yes, that's very English.

Johan Larsson

ok, ty my friends!

KitFox

Oh. Well, I suppose I could pop the window out, like this.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson sounds good. very natural

@JohanLarsson except really you want to use quaternions.

KitFox

18:30

And then I could select the "hover" option on the Style menu, like this.

Johan Larsson

@Mitch ok, trudat but this is 2D

@Mitch Must clean up this mess :)

KitFox

Huh. And it still tells me there should be no underline there.

Mitch

@JohanLarsson oh. well... in that case thinking about it matrices are the best, but the manipulations you actually in-line. x' = x sinth + y cos th, y' = x cos th - y sin th (if I've got that right).

KitFox

scribbles !important next to it and moves on

Wha—? Even !important doesn't work?

How is that even possible?

Johan Larsson

Answered like this, yes rep whoring :)

KitFox

18:36

I don't understand your answer.

Johan Larsson

Bad English or too much math crap?

KitFox

The English is fine. I don't understand how using matrices is going to help him calculate the positions.

Johan Larsson

Say he has:
1) A center point of his circle
2) A point on the circle
3) Transforming the point with a rotation matrix gives him a new point on the circle offset by the angle

And the loop that if he needs many points

KitFox

OK, I get that now.

Johan Larsson

Maybe i misread the question, only glanced the text after looking at his pic.

Andrew Leach

18:56

@KitFox I think you should be able to get the CSS in Firebug (may need to be calculated CSS), and then hover over the element in question: Firebug's display should update itself.

KitFox

@AndrewLeach I figured out how to look, but I still can't figure out why it is underlining when even Firebug says there is no underline applied.

Now I can't figure out how to grab the expansion icon either.

Andrew Leach

@KitFox Well if you have a URL you can publish here, there are some here who might take a look (incl me).

KitFox

I'd have to give you credentials, so I'm afraid I can't. Thanks for the offer though.

Do you happen to know how to apply styles to the collapse/expand icon?

Andrew Leach

Depends what it is. You should be able to use :hover with most element types.

Robusto

@KitFox Is it using an anchor tag? That is the default behavior.

KitFox

19:03

@Robusto Yes, I tried overriding it. Firebug tells me the text-decoration: none is applied to the node.

And yet there is an underline.

Robusto

That is the computed style?

KitFox

If I am reading it correctly, yes.

Robusto

Can you change the value there or is it read-only?

KitFox

I think I can change it. Let me try.

Robusto

If you can change that it's not the "computed" value. The computed value is the actual output styling. The editable one is just the selectors that are associated with that element, which may or may not be applied.

KitFox

19:07

Well, I can change it, but then it removes it and I end up with underlined, so that's helpful.

But shouldn't the !important directive force it to override with none?

Robusto

@KitFox Show me what you're writing.

KitFox

 .root a
{
    text-decoration: none !important;
}

Robusto

Technically it should. Try changing the color as well just to see if that is getting called.

Andrew Leach

You need to override a:hover as well.

KitFox

Oh hell. It looks like it is inserting some javascript for hovering. That's probably what is overriding it. Thanks Microsoft.

Robusto

19:10

Oh, this is some Microsoft framework that outputs HTML and CSS and Javascript?

KitFox

It is the bane of my existence.

It's a treeview.

I wonder if I could write this sort of thing without making myself sick.

I don't have time to frig with it, but of course they have notions about how it should be styled.

user19161

19:25

Hey @trig, nice to see you again!

TRiG

@JasperLoy I hang around now and again.

KitFox

Hey @Rob, is it possible to reference the img in a td that's in the same row as a td with the root class?

TRiG

I'm currently having a theological debate elsewhere.

user19161

@TRiG In which room? I don't debate these things anymore. I have thought enough about such things for a lifetime.

TRiG

The Library

General discussion for hermeneutics.stackexchange.com

I debate for the fun of it, sometimes. It can be fun, as long as I keep a suitable level of detachment.

Robusto

19:30

@KitFox You mean a td that doesn't have a className over one that does?

TRiG

I was once debating in the Upper Room (Christianity SE chat) and things got a bit to close, making me uncomfortable. If I'd kept it up it would have got very serious indeed. So instead I deliberately turned the conversation into a silly sidetrack (actually, a discussion of pretty boys).

KitFox

@Robusto Oh, I think I might have figured out how to do it with jQuery. I added a class to the first tr, so I can hook into that, I think.

user19161

@TRiG Hehe, pretty boys like Justin Bieber?

KitFox

Well, that kind of worked.

TRiG

@JasperLoy Well, Tom Daley and Matthew Mitcham, actually. Justin Bieber's decorative enough too, though I'm not fond of his music.

user19161

19:32

@TRiG I am going to look them up right now...

TRiG

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 19:29, by TRiG

@El'endiaStarman If you want embedded GIFs, how about British Olympic Diver Tom Daley taking his clothes off?

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 19:30, by TRiG

KitFox

I can't stand this crap today.

TRiG

in The Upper Room, Aug 18 '12 at 21:00, by TRiG

As in, Matthew Mitcham stood on the Olympic Rings so Tom Daley did too. That amused me.

Robusto

@TRiG Who asked you to come here and pollute our chat with leftovers?

TRiG

@Robusto Well, if you'd prefer fresh Tom Daley pics ....

Robusto

19:37

We don't need any Upper Room leavings at all, tyvm.

user19161

@TRiG I prefer Taylor Lautner pics, and my own pics. =)

TRiG

4

A: Is "adorable" used to describe an adult?

The word adorable as applied to an adult has to mean more than "good looking" or even "sexually attractive". For example, Matt Bellassai describes the Australian diver Matthew Mitcham as "the most adorable Olympian ever". If you read that article, it's quite clear that Matt finds Matthew attracti...

user19161

@TRiG Oh man, I can't believe you wrote that.

TRiG

@JasperLoy I enjoyed writing that.

user19161

@TRiG Yes, and I enjoyed reading it too. =)

TRiG

19:43

@JasperLoy Well, it did some good, then.

Robusto

This is the kind of shit that makes me want to delete my account.

TRiG

@Robusto raised eyebrow

user19161

@TRiG It's not clear what shit he is talking about.

TRiG

20:05

@JasperLoy shrug

Robusto

The shit of being a dictionary to the great unwashed billions of pineapples.

TRiG

@Robusto Is that a reference to the adorable question, or something else?

Robusto

That would be one.

tchrist

21:09

Here’s number 5:

0

Q: Phonemic vowel length vs phonemic voicing

In Old English, vowel length was phonemic, but consonant voicing was not. In Modern English, that situation is reversed: vowel length is no longer phonemic, but consonant voicing (in most cases) is. Is there a connection between these two? Is there some sort of “conservation of phonemic axes” p...

vowels old-english middle-english phonetics stress

Now I just have to come up with five more by tomorrow. Gah!

cornbread ninja

@tchrist I just dropped in to ask why.

Robusto

@tchrist Gen ref.

cornbread ninja

Didn't you get this hat already?

tchrist

@Robusto What, you think there does exist a conservation of phonemic axes, and that the Latin>Spanish effect is the same as the Old English > Modern English effect? Really?

Show me the GR link.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox how's your tree?

Robusto

21:13

@tchrist I think most people know that intuitively, and those who don't aren't worth talking to.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja I have the five-question one, not the fifteen-question one.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist OI*C*.

Robusto

@tchrist Phonemic vowel length gen ref.

Pwnemic.

tchrist

But we lost phonemic length and gained both phonemic voicing and phonemic stress. Does that mean I missed an axis that was lost?

Robusto

@tchrist Did you look behind the refrigerator?

tchrist

21:15

I checked Iran and North Korea.

Robusto

Did you check Uranus?

cornbread ninja

It's in the basement behind the treadmill.

tchrist

At least I resisted asking the difference between icecream and I scream, or Myspace and mice pace.

cornbread ninja

we all cuss for asparagus.

tchrist

Ooh, I think I’m going to repcap on questions today. Never did that before.

cornbread ninja

21:20

Hot.

tchrist

Using IPA, how do you distinguish between the phonetics of icecream from those of I scream? Those sound different: why and how?

Robusto

Enjoy. I can't even bear to answer a question anymore. I just feel empty inside when I do.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja It's sufficiently styled.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox have you placed the angel on top?

Robusto

@tchrist I can answer using the metric system. Usually, ice cream is a trochee and I scream is more of a spondee.

KitFox

21:23

I don't do angels.

Robusto

I usually just wing it.

cornbread ninja

3 mins ago, by cornbread ninja

Hot.

KitFox

I am feeling bothered. Very Eeyore.

tchrist

@Robusto Hiawatha aside, I didn’t think English did quantitative verse.

Matt Эллен

►

Robusto

21:25

@tchrist That's qualitative verse, baby. I don't do quantitative either.

KitFox

@MattЭллен I hate her. Hate.

tchrist

> quantitative verse, in prosody, a metrical system based on the duration of the syllables that make up the feet, without regard for accents or stresses. Quantitative verse is made up of long and short syllables, the duration of which is determined by the amount of time needed for pronunciation. This system has only rarely been used successfully in English poetry because of the strongly accentual nature of the English language. It was used mainly by classical Greek and Roman poets.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox ah well. Noöne's perfect

KitFox

She's not your girlfriend, is she?

Matt Эллен

no

KitFox

21:26

She talks like an idiot.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox hate++

Matt Эллен

You don't think it's funny?

KitFox

No. Probably because she looks like me and she's acting dumb.

tchrist

THIS is the forest primEV-AL. The murmuring pines and the HEM-LOCKS,
BEARDed with moss, and in garments green, indistinct in the TWI-LIGHT,

Matt Эллен

@KitFox ah. I have that problem to. I hate people who remind me of me.

cornbread ninja

21:28

@KitFox you look like tina fey?

KitFox

But the acting dumb where it's supposed to be funny, but it's not actually funny because it is really stupid.

cornbread ninja

It's like a watery my drunk kitchen, and I didn't like that, either.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja I...I don't think so.

tchrist

@MattЭллен What, like that girl?

Matt Эллен

@tchrist she doesn't remind me of me

cornbread ninja

21:28

why do you hate women, @Matt?

3

Matt Эллен

because you're all whores

cornbread ninja

:O

KitFox

Is it irresponsible of me to start drinking right now?

Matt Эллен

and I'm skint

KitFox

I mean, start drinking today right now?

What's skint?

Robusto

21:29

2 days ago, by Robusto

@MattЭллен I whore for less wholesome things than hats.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox penniless

cornbread ninja

a portmanteau of skin flint

or not

tchrist

skint /skɪnt/, a. colloq.

Etymology: Var. skinned ppl. a. (see sense 4 d).

Penniless, broke.

1925 Fraser & Gibbons Soldier & Sailor Words 260 ― Skint, to be, hard up.
1935 G. Ingram Cockney Cavalcade vii. 97 ― Edina [sic] offered him a shilling. ‘That’s all right··. I ain’t “skint” yet.’
1955 G. Freeman Liberty Man iii. iv. 158 ― If he had enough to pay, it would just about leave him skint.
1962 New Statesman 18 May 708/3 ― All I want is a bike and ten pounds a week in me pocket-there’s one thing I can’t stand and that’s being skint.

KitFox

Skin flint is cheap, innit?

Hmm. adds skint to vocabulary

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja I believe skin flint is cockney rhyming slang for skint

cornbread ninja

21:30

@MattЭллен aww yeah.

Robusto

Here's an interesting word: scunner.

simchona

0

Q: How do I say my age when my birthday will be in a few weeks?

The other day someone asked how old I was, and I wanted to say that I'll be 20 in April but I'm not sure it's correct in this way. Can you help me?

expressions

KitFox

So women are whores and I'm broke.

Scunner?

simchona

Can this be off topic?

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja oh, apparently skinflint means what Kit said

simchona

21:31

To put it differently, will I get pilloried if I close as OT

cornbread ninja

how you gonna make some time / when all you got is one thin dime / and one thin dime won't even shine / yo shoes

Matt Эллен

i.e. cheap, miserly, etc.

Robusto

@simchona It is some level of horrible lower than even our pathetic standards would allow. At least let's hope.

@KitFox A strong dislike.

Matt Эллен

@simchona I support your closing.

KitFox

@simchona You could let the community do it.

There are probably enough closers in this room.

Matt Эллен

21:32

sorry, I broke the 12 days of christmas pledge

cornbread ninja

drinks coffee

KitFox

@Robusto How is it used? I've a scunner for my project lead?

Andrew Leach

@KitFox Added mine. GR though.

Robusto

Every time we close a question over the holidays we ought to ping @Martha and say, "We got your Christmas spirit right here, byatch!"

@KitFox I took a scunner to my project lead.

KitFox

Hahaha. I mean, thwack.

@Robusto Like the opposite of shine then?

Robusto

21:33

@KitFox Well, in some senses, yes.

KitFox

Naturally.

I got my scunner on for the project lead.

Robusto

Gotta go. Laterz.

KitFox

But I am getting his office after all. And he's leaving me a nice bit of carpet in there, if you take my meaning.

simchona

@Robusto She's active on the site at the moment

cornbread ninja

@KitFox you're inheriting an assistant?

KitFox

21:36

@cornbreadninja No, a rug.

> It's incredibly important to constantly update and upgrade your bedroom repertoire.

Now how am I supposed to do that?

cornbread ninja

@KitFox and here I thought I took your meaning.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox learn juggling

KitFox

That's like saying "It's important to constantly buy new episodes of classic Star Trek."

Matt Эллен

then move on to fire poi and juggling things on fire

cornbread ninja

@KitFox have you seen The Red Violin? Do that.

KitFox

21:37

@cornbreadninja Saw it. Liked it.

This frigging advice.

> Plan a naked weekend together in your house or apartment by setting up a sexy campground in your living room.

Right. My kids would love that.

Because then they'd get new parents.

This stupid article is obviously written for twenty-somethings.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox court-appointed?

KitFox

@cornbreadninja I'm thinking so, yes.

Matt Эллен

"if you don't want your children to catch you, make the campsite on the ceiling. Children never look up."

KitFox

Good thinking.

tchrist

Gosh, that was hard.

Matt Эллен

21:41

congrats

tchrist

It was from Alain, I’m sure:

1

A: Time and tide wait for no man

This is a characteristic of Germanic languages: the word for time is a cognate of the word for tide. One well known example is "Zeit", time in German, but most Scandinavian languages use tid - which really gives it away. In Romance languages as well as in several Slavic languages instead, the w...

KitFox

It's so frustrating. The "best" advice I get is 'try doing something really out there, like shaving off your pubic hair.' Seriously. You think that's out there, we shouldn't even be having this conversation.

Matt Эллен

:D

tchrist

It’s like guys who think dressing in drag for Halloween is out there.

KitFox

My gp recommended Fifty Shades of Grey and a vibrator.

Matt Эллен

21:43

hey, it was out there when I was 16

KitFox

I could just cry. Really. Right now.

tchrist

I was going to answer my own question tonight, about sidenotes, but somebody else owns Bringhurst, so I had to give it to him. :)

Matt Эллен

Alas I can only give you advice in the wrong direction. maybe if I told you all the things not to do...

tchrist

Bringhurst talks about footnotes and endnotes and sidenotes, and he has really choice words to say about how icky footnotes can be.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox :(

Matt Эллен

21:47

anyway. time for bed. Byeee

tchrist

@MattЭллен Anybody we know?

Ah, it’s @Rob then. Got it.

cornbread ninja

ROFL

@KitFox what's . . . can I help?

KitFox

@cornbreadninja Um. Thanks. I doubt it.

Unless you know something about sexual dysfunction?

cornbread ninja

@KitFox male, female, or between two people?

KitFox

Female.

cornbread ninja

22:03

Sorta.

KitFox

I've got to get dinner on. Later!

cornbread ninja

Have a nice dinner!

Johan Larsson

@KitFox gf made pizza with asparagus & fresh tomatoes + salami etc. on it today it was good and looked super nice. I thin she steamed the asparagus for a while first.

Robusto

22:20

@simchona If she were really active she'd have been thwacking me by now. Or schwacking me. I dunno.

@tchrist Huh?

tchrist

@Robusto @Matt said he had to go to bed. I asked whether it was anybody we knew. Suddenly the two of you sledded off into the setting sun together.

Robusto

Busted.

tchrist

I don’t think I have many hats left in me. Maybe two if I’m lucky.

I’d actually rather get a gold badge, but without a silver or bronze.

Sure a lot of deletions in the last day. Somebody went on a rampage; @Jasper, I think.

Actually, it seems more of a collective effort. @Corn and @Sim were also very active in the verba deleta sunt department yesterday.

I take back what I said about @Jasper’s rampage. :)

cornbread ninja

22:42

@tchrist what did you just call me?

tchrist

@cornbreadninja A diligent and dutiful contributor to the site.

You deleted a lot of words yesterday, mostly stuff with -3 or -5 votes already, like.

Verba deleta sunt is a play on Carthago delenda est.

Not a good one, mind you.

Words must go. :)

Robusto

0

Q: Which is correct, "Questions such as these" or "Questions such as this"

"Questions such as these need to be raised" or: "Questions such as this need to be raised" MSFT Word thinks it's "this".

grammar

I was going to give this guy a pass, but then he mentioned MS Word. Instant close vote.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist oh! Well, then.

tchrist

@Robusto Well, I didn’t like FF’s dupe.

Robusto

@tchrist You're so censorious. Like Cato.

@tchrist I didn't care. It's good enough.

We have to have some balance in our prejudices.

tchrist

22:46

My Not Constructive finger twitches every time somebody posts a Micro$oft Word bug to ELU.

> Does the phrase "at your service" mean "serviceable for you"?

You can’t make this stuff up.

cornbread ninja

Damn this book of crosswords.

tchrist

Well, you should try being nicer to them.

They might not be so cross.

cornbread ninja

They're too easy.

I'm on my eighth today.

tchrist

I think this should be migrated to Linguistics.SE since it's clearly not localized to English. — Charles 58 mins ago

Hm. Opinions, anyone?

I was kinda hoping for Lawler to chime in on it, since twice in two days he’s mentioned vowel length no longer being phonemic in English. It sounds English-related to me.

And apparently no one else has the chomps for answering it. Hm.

Oh, I know. Wait two days and bounty it.

Might as well use the reps to do some Good for a change.

Robusto

@tchrist It's come to this, has it? Trolling for Lawlerisms?

tchrist

22:56

@Robusto Look at it this way: it’s my sly way of getting him to de facto contribute to our Blog.

cornbread ninja

ugh! enough crosswords.

Robusto

Meh.

KitFox

23:21

@JohanLarsson Sounds good. I did spaghetti and broccoli.

tchrist

23:34

Turns out that folio is a typographer’s name for a page number.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja I decided to redecorate the bedroom to see if that will help.

MετάEd

This is what I get for letting the hat race infect me. Now I'm mad at myself for not rep capping today.

Forget hats.

KitFox

23:50

It will be over soon.

MετάEd

@KitFox I'm over it already :-)

cornbread ninja

@KitFox I like it.

The Library

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…