English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Andrew Leach

00:07

Happy New Year, for those on GMT :)

MετάEd

> bar. a into backward walks sentence A

tchrist

00:24

> ˙spuɐɥ sʇᴉ uo ƃuᴉpuɐʇs ʻɹɐq ɐ oʇuᴉ spɹɐʍʞɔɐq sʞןɐʍ əɔuəʇuəs ɐ

MετάEd

00:38

@tchrist Nice.

tchrist

english.stackexchange.com/a/96230/2085

> Can anyone tell me the word in german for 'times' which means that has hppnd. French word is krant.

Krant does not look very Frenchy to me.

kiamlaluno

Is there any EL&U moderator?

Happy new year everybody!

tchrist

@kiamlaluno Hm, @Sim was here a bit ago. And @Reg is lurking.

Ask and they shall come.

KitFox

Hullo. I've been hailed?

Happy New Year.

tchrist

Wow, it’s like synchronized swimming when they all sleigh out togetherlike.

KitFox

00:51

Crazy.

kiamlaluno

Oh goodness... I saw... I saw... slides.

KitFox

@Matt I must have polished off the Balvenie ages ago, so I'm left with the Dalmore. toasts

@kiam Did you need me?

kiamlaluno

@KitFox Oh, yes. Well, I needed to ask something to an EL&U moderator. :) Before midnight UTC, I got a message about editing too much of my posts, and I was wondering if a moderator can see if the message was about editing 15 of my posts, or 5.

KitFox

I see. Let me check.

kiamlaluno

I bet the message said 15, but the limit should be for 5 posts.

@KitFox Thank you.

cornbread ninja

00:55

anyone partying?

blows rollout thingy

tchrist

One can edit too many of one’s posts? How is that?

Can’t drink. Still on get-well drugs. And codeine.

KitFox

@tchrist It is a vandalism marker.

tchrist

Then again, don’t need to. :)

kiamlaluno

I am sure I got automatically flagged for probable self-vandalism.

tchrist

Oh, I have seen the possible-vandalism flag, yes.

cornbread ninja

00:57

tchrist

Although only on SO, not ELU. Perhaps it is a per-site config thing.

KitFox

@kiamlaluno I don't see a message.

There is a warning list for vandalism somewhere, isn't there?

I can't seem to find it.

kiamlaluno

@tchrist It's for all the sites: I have one of those flags on Drupal Answers. (I know it because I am moderator there.)

tchrist

Then there should be an old flag in the flag queue still visible to mods, I imagine.

You can sub-select by type of flag. Limit to vandalism if presented.

KitFox

Oh, wait, I've found it.

I can see 11 edits, but it looks like it cut off.

kiamlaluno

01:00

@KitFox At least it is not 5. Thank you.

KitFox

You're welcome.

kiamlaluno

I opened a support request, as I didn't edit 15 of my posts. I edited 15 tag wikis. :)

KitFox

I can see who declined it.

tchrist

@kiamlaluno Wow, what a hero!

Mechanical snail

@KitFox I can see who saw who declined it.

tchrist

01:02

I wish I could get a list of last-edited tag wikis.

kiamlaluno

3

Q: Does the limit of 15 edits also include the tag-wiki edits?

Today I have edited some tag wikis on English Language & Usage; when I edited a question of mine (right some minutes before writing this question), I was said I have already edited 15 posts of mine. As far as I recall, and my activity seems to agree with me, I have not edited 15 posts of mine...

tchrist

Or a list of those tags without tag wikis.

KitFox

I should scoot. I am attempting to knit a hat for my eldest for the fourth time tonight. Also, drinking.

tchrist

Don’t poke your eye out.

KitFox

If there is no further service I can provide for you, @kiam...?

@tchrist Don't worry. I am an accomplished drunk.

5

Well then. Good night! Happy New Year.

kiamlaluno

01:07

@KitFox Good night, and happy new year!

Thank you again.

I am sorry; I was greeting my father. :|

Robusto

OK, I do not see how my meta post on rhetoric could be perceived as either inflammatory or wrong.

@JohnLawler: I specifically assert that rhetoric is inextricably a part of English usage; moreover, that it is not only helpful but essential to an understanding of our great language. I appreciate that yours is and must be the viewpoint of a professor of linguistics, and I appreciate your informed and authoritative contributions to this site. Nevertheless, linguistics is not the be-all and end-all English, and is in fact merely a subset of that domain. Linguistics rules absolutely on Linguistics.SE, as is fitting. But it is not fitting that it rule absolutely here. — Robusto 5 mins ago

And @Kit flees the room at the first sign of controversy.

Notice that I pronounced controversy the British way, accenting the second syllable, and that it amused me to do so.

David Wallace

01:23

@KitFox How many hats does he need?

@KitFox Yes it is, but it's better than any of the alternatives.

Robusto

@tchrist I think you should aim higher: world peace at the very least. Failing that, maybe flying cars? An end to the War on Drugs? Rational political discourse? Way down the line must come lists of recently edited tag wikies. I mean, come on.

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace I guess it would be one for each head. ;)

David Wallace

Hello @Kiamlaluno; it's a long time since I've seen you here. Are you well?

Robusto

And yes, I have begun celebrating the new year somewhat early.

David Wallace

And Happy New Year, by the way.

Mechanical snail

01:25

@Robusto You're 1 hour, 25 minutes late.

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace I can say I am pretty fine. Thank you. :)

Robusto

@Mechanicalsnail I started over two hours ago. How do you think I got this drunk already?

David Wallace

@kiamlaluno You left out the "and"!

Robusto

Anyway, it lacks three hours and 35 minutes of midnight here. I will be totally in the bag by then.

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace Happy new year to you too.

David Wallace

01:26

@kiamlaluno Thank you.

Mine is already 14 1/2 hours old.

kiamlaluno

@Robusto I cannot see you walking, so I cannot say you are drunk. :)

Robusto

@kiamlaluno You're not really drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on.

kiamlaluno

@Robusto Uhmmm... I can think of a way of doing that, but I don't know if that is acceptable. ;)

But then, it is surely a proof you are not drunk.

Mitch

@DavidWallace Oh. Hm...quite right. So then maybe we shouldn't have executed her right away.

@DavidWallace Well, I wouldn't have thought to do so, but since you request so politely....

David Wallace

Hah! I wasn't sure whether you were going to tell me I was right, or Carlo.

Mitch

01:31

@KitFox what, the other three weren't enough?

cornbread ninja

@DavidWallace how is it so far?

Mitch

@DavidWallace I was leaning towards both. Only someone as nefarious as Carlo would plan that out so well.

David Wallace

Quite lovely thank you, Cornbread.

But also quite like the old one.

Mitch

@DavidWallace But that was your last mistake, agreeing to disagreee about not being Carlo, eh Carlo!

David Wallace

Hey, that comment can be interpreted three different ways. I was deliberately amtriguous.

cornbread ninja

01:37

@DavidWallace were you under the neighbors?

David Wallace

They went out!

They came back at about 11:50, played music until about 2:00, then stopped.

cornbread ninja

11:50!

David Wallace

But they didn't shout or swear at their children until this morning, so it was OK.

cornbread ninja

and yikes.

hopefully, they weren't there.

David Wallace

Yes, I thought 11:50 was an odd time to come home on new year's eve.

Mitch

01:38

Oh by the way, relative just gave birth.

Woo hoo!!

cornbread ninja

!!

Mitch

Just made the tax deadline!!

David Wallace

Yesterday, my upstairs neighbour climbed up the outside of my bathroom wall. I think they had locked themselves out.

Mitch

@DavidWallace That'd be funny if it weren't so annoying.

cornbread ninja

I hope you stood and watched, hands on hips.

David Wallace

01:39

I watched him through the dining room window, and said nothing.

kiamlaluno

Were they playing Spiderman?

Sings Spiderman's song.

David Wallace

I should have video'ed it for amusement value.

@kiamlaluno adds a harmonious baritone

cornbread ninja

adds bone-shaking basso profundo

David Wallace

Hah!

That reminds me of something!

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace That is a nice touch: I say "nah nah nah" instead of the words. :)

David Wallace

01:41

ota.ox.ac.uk/text/4116#index.xml-pb-id435526

@kiamlaluno I say doo-wop-da-wop-da-wop.

Shama lama bing bing

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace Now, that is a different song. Wasn't that Waka waka? :)

David Wallace

Probably. I said a harmonious baritone, not one that would sing the same song.

Good people, I must away. I am teaching a class now. Happy New Year to those who are not already having it.

Bye.

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace Oh, I gave the wrong meaning to harmonious. ;)

cornbread ninja

teaching a class!

happy new year to you @DavidWallace

kiamlaluno

@DavidWallace Happy new you too!

I am teaching how to build a class. Does that count?

Mechanical snail

01:44

@kiamlaluno It means "authoritarian", right?

kiamlaluno

@Mechanicalsnail I thought it was about food. :)

Maybe that is ham omnious.

(It sounds like "eat all.")

Mechanical snail

@kiamlaluno That pun is atrocious.

kiamlaluno

@Mechanicalsnail I know; I will never be myself again.

Matt Эллен

02:23

@DavidWallace twelve year olds with good taste.

hoppy now yarrr

all I can say is: I'm glad I don't live in a time when alcohol is illegal.

Robusto

@MattЭллен Or a place: it is illegal in theocratic Islamic states.

cornbread ninja

03:15

has anyone ever hired movers?

what am I looking at, here?

Matt Эллен

@cornbreadninja I did. but I'm in the UK. it might be different. I didn't have to pay, because the company I worked for relocated me. they seemed nice though. I just picked a company that were insured.

bai!

tchrist

@Robusto You’ll probably be flagburned for not islamocensoring that remark, you know. Or fatwahed or something.

cornbread ninja

@MattЭллен I was trying to imagine the cost. Were they gentle?

I've asked for a quote.

tchrist

03:38

Relocation can run quite a pretty penny.

@MattЭллен Lawler-cubed, with quoting PLUS italics PLUS buttugly monospaced madness:

0

A: What is an inverse phrase for “topping-off”?

Although you stated: "Not a steady state (empty, depleted), but more a phrase implying readiness." I think that empty would still be valid if used as a verb. Using your example of "If going for a long drive and you want to tell your girls to go to the bathroom first (even if they don’t hav...

Is this for real??!

0

Q: What is the similar meaning proverb in English?

We have a proverb in Bengali, if I translate it directly into English, it emerges as: Who is in there in the temple? I did not eat the banana! Meaning in the temple banana is used for prayer to the God. So stealing banana from temple is very bad. But the person who steals always wants to pr...

proverbs

I did not eat the banana!

Congrats to @StoneyB for getting the Monarch’s Crown!

cornbread ninja

@tchrist I was imagining about $300.

tchrist

03:53

Hm, what kind of relocation are we talking?

cornbread ninja

2nd story apartment to probably 2nd story apartment, in town.

full bed, steelcase desk, bookcases, no couch, no big chairs

tchrist

Get estimates.

cornbread ninja

I'm askin'.

Moovers

they just mooved my brother.

tchrist

It is worth having someone do it, in my experience.

cornbread ninja

I never have, but should have.

tchrist

03:59

This is . . . not wholly unexpected: Pot social clubs ring in the New Year with spots to consume weed.

cornbread ninja

oh, and probably six feet of records.

tchrist

Sounds like cemetery records.

> Lovato originally had planned to open his shop at midnight New Year's Eve, but instead opened Monday morning. He wanted to be the state's first business dedicated to recreational marijuana consumption — and his place is open to anyone of age. ... "But we hope there will be imitators," Corry said. "My view is let a thousand flowers bloom."

Heh.

This is why so-called “e-books” are a complete fucking joke. They are not books. They are a scam.

cornbread ninja

I hate ebooks.

real ones, so-called ones

@tchrist ha!

> Who is in there in the temple? I did not eat the banana!

tchrist

There is some fable with the refrain “Not I, said the ???.” Can’t remember it.

cornbread ninja

I knew it until you asked.

the fly?

fruit flies like a banana.

Mahnax

04:14

I've started to edit curly quotes into the posts of others.

@tchrist, you have trained me well.

@tchrist The Little Red Hen?

tchrist

Probably. So that would not apply here.

Mahnax

> “Not I,” said the duck.

> “Not I,” said the cat.

tchrist

A cookie-jar tale?

Mahnax

The red hen wants to plant a grain of wheat and nöone wil help.

tchrist

> A barley-corn is better than a diamond to a cock.

> The barleycorn is the heart’s key.

> A bird is known by its note, and a man by his talk.

> A child’s birds and a boy’s wife are well used.

Boys have wives?

> A whistling wife, and a crowing hen, / will call the old gentleman out of his den.

> An ass is the gravest beast, an owl the gravest bird.

> As long as the bird sings before Candlemas, it will greet.

> As nice as a nun’s hen.

How nice.

> At New Year's day, a cock's stride; / at Candlemas, an hour wide.

> Birds are entangled by their feet, and men by their tongues.

> Birds pay equal honours to all men.

> Every cock is proud on his own dungnill.

> Fair feathers make fair fowls.

> He hath eaten the hen’s rump.

> He who will have a full flock, / must have an old stag and a young cock.

> He’s in great want of a bird that will give a groat for an owl.

> If every bird take back its own feathers, you'll be naked.

> If the cock moult before the hen, we shall have weather thick and thin, / but if the hen moult before the cock, we shall have weather as hard as a block.

> If the hen does not prate, she will not lay. [East Anglia]

I think that counts as dating-advice.

> A good new year, and a merry Handsel year.

If New Year’s Eve night wind blows South,
it betokeneth warmth and growth :
if West, much milk, and fish in the sea :
if North, much cold and storms there will be :
if East, the trees will bear much fruit :
if North-East, flee it, man and brute.

If on the eighth of June it rain,
it foretells a wet harvest, men sain.

> Serving one’s own passions is the greatest slavery.

> Say no ill of the year till it be past.

> Said the chevin to the trout, / my head’s worth all thy bouk.

> Reynard is still Reynard, though he put on a cowl.

That previous one must be about @Kit. :)

s/he/she/

Robusto

04:44

@cornbreadninja Go to mymove.com. They have a moving cost calculator there.

@tchrist Them's got no sensayuma. Or restraint.

cornbread ninja

04:58

@Mahnax yes!

@Robusto going.

user19161

@cornbreadninja That's one of my favourite lines!

user19161

05:15

@tchrist Wow, you got the most hats!

Robusto

Happy New Year. Now I can go to bed. Someone tell John Lawler he can go to bed now too.

cornbread ninja

@Robusto happy new year to you.

David Wallace

08:37

@kiamlaluno Hah! I did that too! My class was on Java programming.

Sudhir

09:36

@Robusto: Hi

@tchrist:Hi

Matt Эллен

13:22

@cornbreadninja yes they were gentle. Actually now I'm sober, I remember hiring some folks when I moved out, too. They destroyed a (flimsy Ikea) wardrobe. Luckily I was going to have to get rid of it anyway. They were expensive. ~£450

KitFox

Hi @Matt. Happy New Year.

David Wallace

Wow, that's a lot of money!

Happy New Year, Matt and Kit.

KitFox

Happy New Year, @David.

I think I'm finally done with the hat race. I can't play today, so I don't think I can get any more hats, for real, for rilla, and done.

Except maybe I'll go on a crazy answering spree tomorrow.

Tonight, I make my fifth attempt at knitting a hat for my son. It's crazy; you'd think I never knitted a hat before, the way I keep screwing these hats up.

David Wallace

Are you using a circular needle?

KitFox

No, double-points.

David Wallace

13:32

So the hat will end up with a seam?

KitFox

Circulars are fine for long lengths of the same, but they are really annoying once you start decreasing.

@DavidWallace No, it will be seamless.

Do you knit?

David Wallace

I do. I have knitted four hats, all on circular needles. And many other items of clothing.

KitFox

Double-points have no capped end, so you can work them from both sides.

I use four for the hat, and one for the work.

So I knit in a square, essentially.

David Wallace

Oh, OK, we call them something different.

KitFox

I have eight of the same size, but I used to use just four. I got a second set because I like to decrease in fours instead of threes.

David Wallace

13:35

Actually, I can't remember what we call them.

I made some socks using four of them in a triangle once.

KitFox

I found a long set of them too, so I could try making a sweater on them, but I have several sets of circulars that are just gathering dust that are probably more suitable.

I have yet to actually finish a sweater.

David Wallace

No, I made 1.5 socks, then worked out that it was cheaper to buy socks than what my time was worth to knit the remaining half sock.

I have only ever finished one sweater.

KitFox

Well, cheaper and faster to buy them, but more fun to make.

I keep starting them for the boys, but they grow faster than I can anticipate.

So the hat is a big deal.

For me, I mean.

To knit for him.

David Wallace

Well good luck. Respect, sister! Most of the others in this chat room just won't appreciate the issues that you're having.

KitFox

Thanks. Now I need to go finish some work work, so I can do some house work.

Later!

David Wallace

13:39

OK, bye. Don't work too hard. It's New Year.

skullpatrol

13:49

Say, I have the following sentence: "The Gaussian Sobolev spaces are as expected defined as follows" and then you do a definition environment after. The question is: how do you end "as follows"? With a period, or a colon?

Andrew Leach

@skullpatrol If it follows immediately, I'd use a colon.

skullpatrol

@AndrewLeach and if not?

Andrew Leach

@skullpatrol Probably "defined below", then, not "as follows".

skullpatrol

@AndrewLeach Is there a strict English grammar rule for this sentence?

Andrew Leach

No, not grammar; it's a matter of style. But "X is defined as follows" indicates that the definition follows (immediately); "X is defined below" indicates that you will find it if you carry on reading. "Below" could work for both.

But using a colon indicates "follows now" and a full-stop indicates "follows later".

Perhaps I should write an answer...

skullpatrol

14:05

Please :-)

tchrist

14:54

@Reg Okay, I give: how did you manage to make that icky new a/an dupe question disappear in a way that I cannot find in the recently closed or recently deleted list, nor even in the new list sorted by newness? I voted to dup-close, but it is not in any list I can see.

Andrew Leach

It was deleted by the asker.

As was the one about chips.

tchrist

Ah, then it must not show up in the deleted list under those circumstances?

Andrew Leach

I guess so. It doesn't appear in the public view of the user's profile.

tchrist

I’m sure the “been here, done that” question is destined for the supercollider of infamy.

It would not appear in the user’s profile for a non-mod view.

I thought it would still show up in the list of most recently deleted postings.

Andrew Leach

The "been there, done that" question doesn't mention "bought the t-shirt" which usually completes the triad.

tchrist

15:01

Apparently because it is New Year’s Day, it is time for our annual laundry list of annoying words and phrases to be jestisoned forthwith from the language and banned from public use. How come “been here, done that” never seems to die the death it deserves?

skullpatrol

Because history has a way of repeating itself.

tchrist

We have four questions on the supercollider.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Not everyone shares the same opinion of the dividing line between witticism and banality. [No, that's not a sideswipe at @skullpatrol, merely a statement of fact]

tchrist

It isn’t just the would-be witticisms. The annoying business jargon qua hackneyed refrains are more infuriating than anything.

skullpatrol

What do you think about "It is what it is."?

tchrist

15:13

Shoot the writer.

Slap the speaker.

skullpatrol

Matt Эллен

Happy New Year @Kit

Happy New Year @David

Sudhir

@AndrewLeach:Hi

Happy New Year

@tchrist:Happy new year

cornbread ninja

15:29

hats++;

morning all

Sudhir

@cornbreadninja: Its night here

:)

Anyone speak

Andrew Leach

Good afternoon Sudhir. And cornbread. And Matt. And tchrist.

Matt Эллен

hiya :D

Sudhir

@AndrewLeach:Its night here

You belong to?

tchrist

People do not belong to things.

Things belong to people.

Sometimes people belong to each other.

Sudhir

15:33

okay tchrist

Andrew Leach

Well, I can belong to a club.

Or a church.

tchrist

But not to a city.

Nor to a county.

Et cetera.

Sudhir

You belong to UK

tchrist

No, you cannot say that.

It is not English.

For several reasons.

Matt Эллен

indeed

Sudhir

15:35

@tchrist:You are Perl developer

Great!

Andrew Leach

@cornbreadninja Which hat do you have now? What's the cake for?

Sudhir

Hats off

Matt Эллен

Hats on

Paint the fence

Andrew Leach

Peel this 'ere pile of spuds, you 'orrible specimen.

Matt Эллен

got to ooil my bike. CU

tchrist

15:40

Ah, those sere piles!

(I’m multitasking right now. No time for much chatty-chatty-bung-bung.)

Sudhir

ok bye guys

Its sleeping time

cornbread ninja

@Sudhir I figured

Sudhir

What?

cornbread ninja

@AndrewLeach cake is for "improving" a post. waldo hat is for 5 upvotes

@Sudhir and a good evening to you

Sudhir

@cornbreadninja:You are from US?

cornbread ninja

15:44

@Sudhir yes

Sudhir

ok

What's the time there?

tchrist

@MattЭллен What profiteth a man to oil his bike when the mercury falls closer to brine’s freezing point than to water’s, when the streets are locked in winter’s icy grasp, and when the winds without howl with arctic fury?

cornbread ninja

9:45AM

Johan Larsson

hmm, heard a ping from this room, ghost ping?

Sudhir

oh! Its morning time

Andrew Leach

15:46

@tchrist You're not in the UK, are you? It's a bit chilly here, but rather pleasantly dry at the moment.

tchrist

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Don't recognise where that came from. Have a look at London.

tchrist

Or for rocket scientists:

It came from these data from 40°1′10″N 105°17′34″W 5,331′Z.

You can get both English and Metric, and nice graphs for daily, weekly, and monthly charts, and from two different evelations separated by more than a kilofoot.

We had an inch of dry new snow yesterday.

Just a dusting, really.

But powdery.

Actually, 16 is exactly halfway between brine’s freezing point of 0 and water’s freezing point of 32.

@AndrewLeach I haven’t lived in London for a long time, nor even been there much of late.

Andrew Leach

I'm on the southern UK coast. It's quite a bit warmer here than in Colorado.

metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/observations/…

tchrist

Seaside is always warmer.

I remember my amazement at finding (non-fruiting) banana trees growing on the coast of Devon.

Andrew Leach

16:00

Torquay.

tchrist

We sometimes have weather like that this time of the year. In fact, we had that and better the week right before Christmas. What you have now is actually closer to our average for now. But it is cold today.

That looks tropical.

No white Christmas for you, Mr Dickens.

Venice never had it so fine.

Only 112 feet of elevation. How . . . moist.

I think I am 112 feet above the city, and that is above a mile.

I live on a hill leading upto the foothills leading upto the Rockies leading upto the Continental Divide lo some 14 miles to my west nearly 3 miles in the sky.

You will go up a thousand feet if you try to go one mile west.

And you can forget cell coverage almost immediately.

And shed 2C or 3-5F per kilofoot of altitude gain.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist it needed oiling up. The profit is it's easier to pedal :D

tchrist

See how balmy it was for most of this past month?

Somehow that all went wrong ’round about Christmas.

I would say went south, but it looks more northerly.

user19161

16:22

@AndrewLeach Looks beautiful.

Andrew Leach

@JasperLoy That was taken on a good day, of course! Torquay is a retirement destination, which is a mistake -- it's very hilly. I'm in Eastbourne. Fewer palm trees; same bad retirement destination.

tchrist

I did a search on lo and behold, and can you guess who are ace loner and beholder actually is?

(maybe that should be lorer)

However, just using lo as an interjection, like lo these twenty years ago, takes a far back seat to the many Romance uses of lo in chat. Sorry ’bout that.

user19161

@AndrewLeach I wonder what language the world would use without your language!

tchrist

@JasperLoy That would be Latin, of course: sicut erat in principio, et nunc, et semper. We’d just call it Spanish.

user19161

@tchrist I wonder why so many Americans learn Spanish.

tchrist

16:33

@JasperLoy To talk to our maids.

I once had a maid with the cutest accent. She would always catch me off-guard with her colorful turns of phrase and clipped syllables.

She was, of course, an Eastender.

user19161

@tchrist Who come mostly from South America?

tchrist

@JasperLoy No, who come mostly from North America.

user19161

@skullpatrol There is often a natural explanation why history repeats itself. A causes B and A is still there, so B happens again.

tchrist

@Reg Hah, you inadvertently created an antedecents tag. :) Enquiring minds want to know . . . .

user19161

How about antidecents, those who hate decent people?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…