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07:01
Oh, it turns out that the title of Yahiya Emerick's excellent book is actually "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Understanding Islam". I omitted a word from the title, sorry.
I am clearly a complete idiot.
user19161
@DavidWallace It is not clear whether the idiot or guide is complete.
@Mahnax Are you serious about wanting more information, or is this just idle musing on your part?
Oh, another question: when is it required to add PBUH after a name?
After the name of any prophet.
Is it offensive to you for non-believers to name a prophet and omit the PBUH?
07:03
@Mahnax No. Non-believers can do whatever they like. Within reason.
@DavidWallace Okay. That seems reasonable enough.
Is Islam strongly patriarchal?
For example, if you are going to talk about Jesus(PBUH), it is more offensive to call him God than to omit the PBUH.
@Mahnax yeah, I'd say it's quite patriarchal. Men and women have different responsibilities.
@DavidWallace OK.
Sorry, poor wording.
He is a great prophet.
What is Jesus' part in Islam?
Ah.
07:06
But he was just a man. The Qur'an stresses this over and over.
user19161
@DavidWallace Rather, a prophet.
Was Muhammad more than a man?
user19161
@Mahnax Also a prophet.
He too was just a man. But an extremely special one.
OK.
user19161
07:07
Prophets are special men.
How many other prophets were there?
There have been thousands and thousands of prophets.
Nobody knows the exact number. I think I read 313000 somewhere, but I may be misremembering.
Interesting.
@Mahnax 124000, to be exact
But it's important that there will be no more prophets after Muhammad(PBUH).
07:08
So Muhammad was the last, then?
As you can see, different Muslims disagree on the exact number. Note that Meysam and I are members of different sects.
So our beliefs are slightly different, but not in any significant way.
There are four sects, right?
Sunni, … and I forget the rest.
Mohammad (PBUH) was the 124000th one and the last one
Shia! That's two.
@Mahnax There are more than that. I think you are thinking of the four "schools of jurisprudence" into which Sunni Islam is divided.
07:10
Oh, perhaps that is it.
I think there are supposed to be about 70 sects. Meysam probably knows the exact number.
What was that sleigh stuff?
It's a festive feature.
'tis the season, and all that.
@Mahnax I guessed so I guessed so. But looked more like a bug than feature to me
1 hour ago, by Meysam
what was that sleigh stuff?
07:12
@DavidWallace Oh! Had I asked it already? I don't seem to be remembering things
I will ask one more question, then it is time for bed.
Sigh... Maybe that's one of the characteristics of being over 73 years old. It's sad but I'm ready to testify that I accept this disability.
What are a few of Islam's key values?
Meysam - do you want to take that one, or shall I?
@DavidWallace Go ahead please
user19161
07:15
Both should answer.
@Meysam Are you going to contradict me if I quote the five pillars?
user19161
Then we can cast votes!
I will answer too, after David does
@DavidWallace No
user19161
I know too little to answer.
@Mahnax Worship only one God. Do good deeds.
And I strongly recommend you read this page.
The Five Pillars of Islam (' ; also ' "pillars of the religion") are five basic acts in Islam, considered obligatory by believers and are the foundation of Muslim life. These are summarized in the famous hadith of Gabriel. The Quran presents them as a framework for worship and a sign of commitment to the faith. They make up Muslim life, prayer, concern for the needy, self purification and the pilgrimage. They are: # the shahada (Islamic creed) # daily prayers (salah) # almsgiving (zakāt) # fasting during the month of Ramadan (sawm) # the pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj) at least once in a life...
...which answers your question far better than I could.
user19161
07:18
@DavidWallace With a nice pic too!
Hmm, the pilgrimage to Mecca is interesting.
Good night, all.
But Mahnax - don't just listen to me about this. I am a very new Muslim, and I don't necessarily have the right answers. Find someone who can give you more informed help.
Thanks for the information, @David and @Meysam.
user19161
@Mahnax See you in your dreams!
@JasperLoy … Good night.
07:21
@Mahnax Good night
Good night @Mahnax. Feel free to ask more questions any time.
user19161
I am now thinking of something...
user19161
Hmm, never mind...
@Mahnax One of the key values is that you as a human need hope, and Islam gives it to you!
user19161
@Meysam I need hope too...
07:24
[To the righteous it will be said], "O reassured soul, Return to your Lord, well-pleased and pleasing [to Him], And enter among My [righteous] servants (quran.com/89/27)
Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of Allah . Unquestionably, by the remembrance of Allah hearts are assured." (quran.com/13/28)
And one more:
O mankind, indeed you are laboring toward your Lord with [great] exertion and will meet it. (quran.com/84/6)
user19161
@Meysam Thank you. Good night.
@JasperLoy Good night!
Meysam - those are all beautiful words. Thanks for sharing.
And please, stop me answering questions about Islam, when you are here in the room. I feel you would have done a much better job than I with some of that.
@DavidWallace No problem
@DavidWallace C'Mon! I may only know little more than you!
@Meysam I refuse to believe it. You have been a Muslim your whole life, right?
07:38
@DavidWallace I have
But I have never read the whole Quran
Also, you have lived your life surrounded by Islamic culture. Whether I like it or not, I am a Westerner. I live in a society where dating, fornication and alcohol are key elements.
Which you are (probably) going to beat me to it
Hah, I have read about 90% so far, of one English interpretation. To read The Qur'an, I must learn Arabic first, and that is likely to take me years.
What was that festive feature sleigh stuff?
The programmers at Stack Exchange are celebrating Christmas with an Easter Egg.
07:42
@DavidWallace If you learn some Arabic, you will find parts of Quran really beautiful, in terms of literature.
@DavidWallace I guessed so...
I know that. Some of my friends are native speakers of Arabic. So I'm aware that The Qur'an is the most beautiful literature ever produced, in any language. I understand that it makes people like Shakespeare and Dante look like stuttering toddlers.
This is subjective, I know, and I may be accused of bias with my last remark. But it is utterly inconceivable that an illiterate peasant (SAWS) could have fabricated The Qur'an himself, or that any of his companions could have put it together. I don't understand why people have difficulty seeing that it simply MUST be the word of God.
@DavidWallace As an example, the 55th Sura is so beautiful that it's known as Bride of Quran. It's like a poem. (quran.com/55)
I read #55 (in English) just yesterday.
(beautiful in terms of rhythm and harmony)
I feel so deprived for not knowing Arabic. It is becoming a higher and higher priority for me.
I guess I can forget all about improving my Bosnian now though (ironic chuckle).
I even envy you for having a head start with the alphabet.
07:52
@DavidWallace Plus some common words imported to the language
Yes, of course. But then, we have a few of those. Chemistry and seersucker.
I have heard that Hebrew and Arabic have some similarities too.
Hah! I stand corrected! Seersucker comes from Persian. My apologies to any Persian speakers who read this.
Arabic and Hebrew are closely related.
Oh great, my new upstairs elephants are now shouting at each other, using four-letter words.
In front of their children too.
Time to call the police!
Hmm, shouting and swearing aren't illegal here.
Neither is running repeatedly and pachydermically from one side of the room to the other.
08:01
@DavidWallace You seem to be not aware of your civil rights! Here in where I live, even if your neighbor's dog barks, you can call the police and tell them you need some silence. And they will take the required action in a few minutes.
Alhamdu Lillah that I live in New Zealand.
@DavidWallace Alhamdulila
Here, the right to shout at one's wife and to allow one's children to behave like elephants is considered more important than the right of the grumpy old man downstairs to have some peace and quiet. And I agree with this wholeheartedly.
And it's my fault for moving into a cheap block of flats.
@DavidWallace Your government need to get your constitution reviewed. How long before it happens? Once every what hundred years does it get reviewed?
What is wrong with my constitution? And our parliament is constantly making new laws (but maybe not reviewing the constitution). Actually, we don't have a constitution per se.
08:12
@DavidWallace Your constitution and new laws need to emphasize that human rights should be respected in your country.
The people upstairs are human, and have the right to express themselves in whatever register of language they choose, the right to listen to loud music, and the right to let their children be children. I would hate to live in a country where they don't have such rights.
The Quran is indeed one of the best literature out there.
And it's only 9:15pm here. If the noise is still going in 3 hours, I may indeed take some action.
@DavidWallace Do you follow any school of jurisprudence?
An excellent question. I have not been a Muslim for long enough to know the differences between the madh'habs. So I go along with whatever the Sheikhs and other more experienced Muslims in my area are doing. I have no idea which madh'hab they belong to, so I can't really answer your question.
How about you, Noah?
08:18
@DavidWallace I am in the same boat. I think it doesnt really matter what Madhzahb you follow as long as you are in line with the Sunah and Quran.
Sure. And I'm hardly in a position to want to behave differently from others at my local Masjid.
Two of my friends got into an argument recently. One started praying next to the other's jacket, and the other reached in front of him to take the jacket. The first told the other off afterwards, for invading his sutrah.
@DavidWallace That's interesting. A friend converted to Islam here in the states. I think he was from Oklohoma. First thing he did was go home and tell his parents that morgagate was haram, keeping a dog was haram, etc.
@Noah I'm a little worried about what to do about my mortgage, to be honest.
What's Madhzahb? I think you should mean something like Mazhab?
@Meysam We mean "school of Islamic jurisprudence". It's not clear what the best way to transliterate the Arabic word into English is. My preference is "madh'hab", but it seems Noah's preference is different.
08:23
@DavidWallace Honestly I dont know. I think you need to consult a scholar of some sort. I dont know much about these things.
Not sure if mortgage is considered Haram, you?
Haram is bad?
Having a mortgage is considered haram by many, yes. But I was not a Muslim when I took out the mortgage; moreover, the only way out of it would be to sell the house and turn my ex-wife and son out onto the street. I refuse to believe that God wants me to do that, so I will continue paying the mortgage; haram or otherwise.
@JohanLarsson Haram means forbidden.
Haram is Arabic for forbidden.
Jinx!
@DavidWallace I think it would be okay in your case.
08:26
Yes. Many scholars say that when avoiding something Haram will do more harm than good, the Haram becomes Halal.
(Johan - Halal is Arabic for permitted).
Right. That's why we have different school of thoughts.
ok, loaning with interest is forbidden by the bible too I think, if I remember correrctly, read the quran and the bible a couple of years ago out of curiosity
I think it is forbidden by parts of the Bible and permitted by other parts. But I'm not sure enough to say so definitively.
@DavidWallace So if I buy a car with 36 months mortgage, is that stil considered haram. I dont think they charge any interest.
Back in 10 minutes. Maghrib.
08:28
See you
@Noah I would be very surprised if they don't.
I'm no expert but I like that rule :) Making money just on transferring money is not cool
@DavidWallace It's so bad that you know something is Haram and deliberately keep doing it.
@Meysam I've heard that Haram becomes halal out of necessity.
@Meysam Did you read my earlier sentence about cases where Haram becomes Halal?
Do you actually think that God wants my ex-wife and my son to have nowhere to live?
08:39
@DavidWallace I am still having issues with that eToro thing. I havnet found a defninite answer. I dont know where to look for help.
Is there a suitable Sheikh at your local Masjid?
@DavidWallace I wouldnt consider him a real shiekh. There's this turkish guy but he doesnt seem to be a scholar. He is a chemistry major, I guess; and does the imamat for the sake of Allah.
@Noah Yes
@DavidWallace No
@DavidWallace No
So Meysam, if you were in my position, would you continue paying the mortgage? Or would you sell the house?
Have you talked this over with a Sheikh?
08:43
@DavidWallace At least you can do something. Move to your own house and accommodate your son and wife in the house you are paying mortgage for.
@Meysam That's precisely what I have done. I am paying rent for a scungey little flat. Jasmina and Emerik are still occupying the family home, which I own half of, and pay the mortgage on.
@Noah To be honest, there are so many other issues involving Islam and my family which are more urgent to sort out.
@DavidWallace Omm, I see. I think you are right.
Oh goodness. I have just received a nasty anti-Islamic email from my Christian aunt.
In her defence, she DID stop short of saying "Merry Christmas". But the rest of it is very bad.
@DavidWallace Is she angry over why you converted to Islam?
I think she is trying to convert me to Christianity.
She has not pulled any punches though.
08:56
@DavidWallace I see. Here in CA, a lady converted to Islam and when she told her parents that she converted to islam, they told her that it would have been okay if she had converted to Judaism or any other relegion, but not islam.
My ex-wife said something similar to me.
I am on to bed.
So see you and have a good night.
Good night, Noah.
 
4 hours later…
12:54
-1
A: Where does "Santa" in Santa Claus come from?

TonyI believe that it comes from putting the accents in (saint nichlas) differently. If you say santa claus qulckly, over and over again it begins to sound like Saint Nicholas....

And I believe people should learn to read before they learn to write.
Wow. Your comment was a bit OTT though, don't you think, @Reg?
Oh?
That's the edited version. The fourth review.
You don't think so? OK. Never mind.
His answer is pure speculation that's wrong to boot, while the correct answer has been sitting there for an eternity. I said just that. I even slapped a please onto it.
Oh well.
The whole answer will be deleted anyway.
Downvotes are the appropriate way to deal with wrong answers, aren't they? Isn't that the SE way?
12:59
I did downvote it.
I kinda guessed
In fact people might shut down the whole question now that it got bumped. Unless it gets the Kosmo bonus.
Whatever that is.
Huh, Bruno changed his name.
Or abbreviated, rather.
Whoever that is.
13:02
The OP. A 10k user, too.
Oh, cool, a new hat.
@RegDwighт What?
Don't forget to post or vote today. For a cool hat. Or a warm one, even.
They're all coming out of the woodwork today, aren't they?
Grumble grumble hat grumble grumble
@Robusto you mean whất. If you say what it makes you sound like Santa Clause.
13:04
Say what?
Say wat you whant.
-3
Q: Can I ask prove the allegations those are made by moderators while banning?

RameshI have been banned from the moderators by making some allegations. I feel that those allegations are not genuine. Now my questions are Can I ask the moderators to prove those allegations? What if those ban is not genuine? Can I go above the moderators and appeal?

@RegDwighт If you say what repeatedly really fast it makes it sound like you're saying Wittgenstein.
@Robusto too complicated. I always just say Wittgenstein.
OK, I fucking posted. On a question that was beneath me. I did it for hats. Are you happy now?
I am crying. Crying.
Tears of joy.
Or are they?
I dunno, I have to cry first.
13:09
@RegDwighт Lies.
@Robusto Wittgenstein.
That is only the fourth instance of Wittgenstein-mention in this chat.
Mar 29 '11 at 13:39, by Billare
I want to learn more about Wittgenstein, Frege, and leftist philosophers other than..argh I forgot his name..Rawls.
If you say bachelor fast repeatedly in Swedish it turns into wank, wank...
That's the first. My comment just now was the second. And now you own 50% of the mentions.
@JohanLarsson Everything in Swedish turns into wank-wank, whether said fast or no.
Whether said or thought.
13:11
@Robusto nope
At least that's my impression.
@JohanLarsson wank?
Wank wank wank. Waaank-wank, wank wank.
See? Swedish.
@Robusto still cant accept that as an answer
@JohanLarsson Then you're not in tune with the spirit of EL&U Christmas.
13:13
@JohanLarsson who you call a cant?
We always mock the Swedes at Christmastide. Right, guys?
Is that good or bad?
It's a tradition. Nothing to be done.
@JohanLarsson That's god or bad.
Ungkarl, Ungkarl, …, runkar, … fwiw
13:15
That's not Swedish. That's Norwegian.
Norwegian poetry skalds the tongue.
No chewing tobacco in ELU chat.
Probably very similar, not sure about ungkarl in Norwegian tho
Old skol!
13:17
You know Norwegian?
Seven.
Each of them is a pitch better than the previous. Which one to take?
The next one will be a pitch better still.
It is a finite set. Choose the last one.
From left or bottom?
13:18
Your choice.
It is recursion, pretty elaborate scheme
I choose freedums.
I don't like paidfordums.
you can never opt out
If you want free dumbs, you've come to the right place. ELU! ELU!
We've almost caught up with IT Security. They dropped below Gaming, too. Looks like gamers are active on XMas while our IT is totally insecure.
13:21
OK, I got my Tis the Season chapeau. Happy now?
Can you spell milennium bug?
@Robusto hats' off two you.
Two "l"s in millennium.
You don't say.
Trolling is a art.
Du bist kein Arzt.
Ich bin die Ärzte.
Die Ärzte ("The Doctors", , often typeset die ärzte, in their official logo with 3 dots on the "a") is a punk band from Berlin. Die Ärzte are one of the best-known German punk rock bands and have released over 20 albums. The band consists of guitarist Farin Urlaub, drummer Bela B. and bass player Rodrigo González. All three write and perform their songs. History Early years Die Ärzte were formed in Berlin in 1982 by Jan Vetter (alias Farin Urlaub, a pun on the expression "Fahr in Urlaub", meaning "Go on vacation"), Dirk Felsenheimer (alias Bela B.) and bassist Hans Runge (alias Sa...
13:24
Das ist ein anderer Ort.
Und eine andere Zeit.
In einem Land vor unserer Zeit ist ein Zeichentrickfilm. Er wurde von Steven Spielbergs Amblin Entertainment produziert. Regie führte Don Bluth. Die Filmmusik stammt von James Horner. Der Film wurde 1988 von Universal Pictures in die Kinos gebracht. Handlung Als den pflanzenfressenden Dinosauriern die Nahrung ausgeht, machen sich der kleine Littlefoot und seine Familie auf, neue Nahrungsgründe im sagenumwobenen „Großen Tal“ zu finden. Doch als die Kontinente aufeinander prallen, spaltet ein Erdbeben das Land. Dadurch wird Littlefoot von seinen Großeltern getrennt. Seine Mutter kommt ...
Spielberg schert sich offenbar einen Dreck darum, was da vorgeht.
So ist er halt.
I got to go to a party, not fun. Go easy on the puns and have a merry one
You too.
Don't wank too much.
13:31
Hot cross puns, hot cross puns, one-a-penny, two-a-penny, hot cross puns!
If ye have no daughters, give them to your suns!
And don't runkar too much, either.
Mmm ... bacon.
Mahlzeit.
Give your suns to the nuns.
Bun appetit.
@RegDwighт what is the upper limit? Is there an upper limit? 99°C?
Don't know about you, but here it's +10°C and the sky is steel blue. I walked to the greengrocer's in jeans and t-shirt.

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