English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Sonic The Hedgehog

05:00

No prob. Come back when you need to.

@its_me I don't know how many people will understand the +1. Probably more now than before. People who've ever tried to call North America from outside would recognize it.

its_me

makes sense.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

well, it's late. I must be off. bye folks.

its_me

bye!

Sonic The Hedgehog

05:12

Cya.

Robusto

12:45

Wake up!

KitFox

13:15

Morning.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:29

wow, not a lot of chatter today

tchrist

I was busy slaying wit’s soul.

RegDwighт

I was busy blasting X.

tchrist

2

A: Technical terminology for a non-technical audience

You should call them a pattern. Tell them I said so. Edit Apparently my drive-by downvoter didn’t care for “tell ’em I said so”. However, I quite assure you that it is germaine, and indeed, a proper reference. In particular, I said so in the Glossary of Programming Perl [O’Reilly Media], i...

The sunken cemeteries of the dead at sea are covered by turds of bass.

RegDwighт

13:44

> Apparently compassion is not highly valued here, nor brevity

Ouch. What a broadside.

Make the here a by some, otherwise it makes us look bad (and you a drive-by user).

Robusto

@tchrist needs to learn how to spell germane :)

No fear, FTFY.

RegDwighт

Robusto is in your Internet fixing your germs.

Robusto

Turning them into Germans.

RegDwighт

One an at a time.

tchrist

I was having mental crosstalk with cousins-german. Oops.

Because those were once spelled cousins germains. It sucks.

RegDwighт

13:56

Yeah, like Jermaine Jackson is Jermaine Jacksun now.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Fixed.

I have to go on eternal teleconference now. No time for sister-wives, I fear.

RegDwighт

Telcons are so boring. I can't understand why you do that to yourself.

tchrist

Money, of course.

Robusto

Must commute. Lateur.

RegDwighт

CU

tchrist

14:02

I’m waiting till telcon done.

Then the ugly mutter.

cousins-german ∦ sister-wives

RegDwighт

@tchrist The question still stands. I'm not getting the minimum wage, either, and yet I violently refuse to participate in telcons or really just do phone calls. I hate phone calls. I'm a guy of the written word.

tchrist

Because it is the only way to keep the Indians in line.

But honestly, it is because people in the project are all over the world. The phone link is auxiliary to the shared whiteboard etc.

And I remarked yesterday, I found it incredible that things were actually at times accomplished in our meetings, being the first time in my life that I ever saw real work get done there.

No time to explain, but it has to do with getting all the ducks in line for the production line to upgrade a couple of dozen servers (primary, with fail-over) that each have dozens of different interacting programs (and score and legions of forked intercommunicating processes for each) that were written, or at least worked on, by many different people.

It is a very complex situation. So you get everybody together, and go through the checklists of what has to be done for the staged live-update.

Because people forget things, and how their stuff touches others’ stuff, and the group session helps uncover these.

And staff are all over North America, Britain, Europe, and India.

So you do what you have to.

That probably sounds nuts. It should.

@RegDwighт I really did fix that for you, but now the edit log looks like it is lying. Weird.

Definitely time-out errors.

My save-edits is again hanging.

And I am monologuing here.

In green.

RegDwighт

The site is on and off for me the whole day. Chat, too.

tchrist

Here is the attempted edit: Apparently compassion is not universally valued here, nor by some, brevity, and so with this brief edit do I set both such matters aright.

I have tried twice now, but I can’t get it to stick.

Oh maybe it works now.

RegDwighт

Downforeveryoneorjustme said it was just me. They lied.

Other sites work fine.

tchrist

14:16

No, it is not just you.

Why is this a picture?

0

Q: "Let's plan to meet at three o'clock" vs. "Let's meet at three o'clock"

What's the differences between the two? Personally, I'd say let's meet each other at three o'clock. Is formality the only difference between them? Here is the complete conversation:

differences

RegDwighт

A scan of an actual book?

tchrist

But what is to be gained over keying in the actual text?

I can’t OCR-search a picture.

JSBձոգչ

> Can't you searh on Google or MSDN ?! (answered millions of times since 1989..)

another great answer from SO

tchrist

14:32

I hate how hard it is to get people to pay attention to any piece of mail that’s longer than one’s hand is wide.

Oh drat, Luke has discovered my sinister plot.

@RegDwighт You know something weird? When working with our “ex”-KGB intel officer, when having spoken conversation with him, I stop hearing typically Russian English-language defects he makes, but when having online chat/IM, I never stop noticing it.

I think my language-processing is less demanding of the spoken word than of the written one, but that this is not conscious surprises me somewhat.

> Etymology: a. Fr. cousin germain (13th c. in Littré): see german a.1 Formerly also german cousin, like brother-german, german brother.

C. 1314 Guy Warw. (A.) 912 He is mi germain cosyn.
A. 1555 Ridley Wks. (Parker Soc.) 23 This··standeth upon transubstantiation its german cousin.
1839 Todd Cycl. Anat. II. 473/1 ― The marriage of cousins-german··is reprobated as prejudicial by some.

And brothers german, too, with german brothers as well.

Good thing we don’t talk that way anymore. Most of my german cousins live in Germany.

> A young Kenyan mother has named her newly born twin boys after the U.S. president-elect and his defeated Republican challenger. Millicent Owuor, 20, gave birth to Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on Wednesday at the Siaya District Hospital in southwest Kenya, according to the Standard. Owuor told the Kenyan news outlet her sons' names will always remind her of the election in the United States.

> No word yet if there have been twins named Joe Biden and Paul Ryan.

JSBձոգչ

14:50

@tchrist the question is why on earth she wants to be always reminded of the election in the US

Cerberus

speechless

Alenanno

Hello

MετάEd

15:15

@JSBձոգչ Many people in Kenya have followed Obama's career closely because of his Kenyan roots.

@Alenanno Mornin.

@Robusto Took money from the wrong people I suppose.

Alenanno

@MετάEd Afternoon.

MετάEd

@tchrist What don't you like about it?

FronSTAN

Good evening, if to be precise:)

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax noooooooooo

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Exactly.

The busses are cancelled.

MετάEd

15:18

@FronSTAN It's five o'clock somewhere.

Alenanno

@FronSTAN It depends on where you are.

tchrist

> Bzzz ? Non : pschitt ! Lorsque, voici un an, fut annoncée la saison 2007-2008 du Châtelet, le cœur des cinéphiles a bondi.

Bzzz != Pshitt, eh? :)

FronSTAN

I do not argue.

tchrist

@MετάEd Risks confusing German cousins with german cousins and cousins german.

MετάEd

@tchrist Use the French spelling then. Cousin germain.

Pronounce it with the emphasis on the ultimate.

That way you leave the option open to refer to others in your family as cousins irrelevant.

JSBձոգչ

15:26

@MετάEd sure, but what about the poor schmuck who got stuck with "Mitt Romney"?

MετάEd

@JSBձոգչ It's like being named Cain.

tchrist

The mark of.

MετάEd

He can always serve as a bad example.

JSBձոգչ

The Mark of Romney. chilling

MετάEd

@JSBձոգչ Romney's religion is big on the mark of Cain.

It's fitting.

JSBձոգչ

15:31

@MετάEd i thought they mostly had papered over that

tchrist

The asskicker has autocensored.

MετάEd

@JSBձոգչ I can say it was still prevalent in 1970. From personal experience.

@tchrist Random phrase generator?

JSBձոգչ

@MετάEd, you probably know better than me

RegDwighт

@tchrist: where's your answer on the possessive of names ending in S? I can't find it for the life of me. I need to crosslink to that question.

tchrist

@MετάEd Nay.

@RegDwighт First on this list.

RegDwighт

15:38

Excellent.

tchrist

Press the topmost Écouter and you get the first minute of each of 32 tracks, played without interruption.

Robusto

@tchrist More in period: Apparently compassion is not here universally valued—nor, by some, brevity; and so, with this brief edit, do I set both such matters aright. See? Oxfourd commas all over the place.

tchrist

Those aren’t Oxforders, but I agree with the improvement.

Robusto

Or maybe Oxfourd comas?

@tchrist Yes, of course. But I know you understood the joke.

tchrist

duh

tchrist

16:02

@Robusto Frankly, oxforders is a lot of bull: it should of course be the delicatized oxenfurters, deriving in turn from the now-extinct aurochsfarters, who were unable to survive the climate change they themselves contributed to.

Just thought I’d leave you all with kine word before my commute.

JSBձոգչ

holy cow, i just posted on SO and got five answers in less than a minute

tchrist

If you call those answers.

The species—Sauroniops pachytholus, or "eye of Sauron" in Greek—was identified from a single fossil unearthed in southeastern Morocco in 2007.

So they’ve dug up Sauron now, have they? Surely no good can of this!

Why can’t they just let dead things eternal lie?

Cthulhu will not approve of the competition.

MετάEd

16:19

@tchrist Alas, I have broke the hinge of my snuffbox.

I just ordered a new pair of Oxfords (dress shoes). The style was named "Cambridge". With that appellation, I think the shoe manufacturer has insulted both schools.

tchrist

commutes

JSBձոգչ

i'm seeing a lot of tags like at-in lately

RegDwighт

That would be me.

JSBձոգչ

is this a trend? has somebody been adding them?

ah, so

RegDwighт

Stupid names, but names can be changed.

JSBձոգչ

16:29

is that to help finding the inevitable, supernumerary duplicates?

i've been removing them, but not consistently or with much conviction

MετάEd

@JSBձոգչ What should we tag the supercalifragilistic ones?

JSBձոգչ

@MετάEd expialidocious

RegDwighт

@JSBձոգչ that is one major reason, yes. Some of these tags have like seven questions of which six can be considered identical for all intents and purposes.

MετάEd

@JSBձոգչ Perfect.

RegDwighт

But others are in fact quite versatile.

JSBձոգչ

16:33

ok, then. i'll stop removing them, except in the cases where it's useless

such as the question from which i just removed to-be

RegDwighт

The point is, it's kind of stupid to keep tagging dozens upon dozens of questions [X] and [Y] when you can have a combined tag [X+Y].

@JSBձոգչ ah but that's not mine.

JSBձոգչ

since the verb to be was incidental to the question, which was really about infinitives

@RegDwighт i didn't think that it was.

RegDwighт

Mine you should be able to tell from a mile away because they always have two words, or morphemes.

JSBձոգչ

but see, i worry that we're creating a trend where all of the pineapples and noobs come in and tag their questions with the specific words they used in their question

even if those words are irrelevant to the actual question

RegDwighт

Yes, that's a concern I'm having, too.

But I don't see them misuse my tags just yet.

Perhaps precisely because they are rather cryptic.

Nobody can tell what the heck sp-as-pp is about.

JSBձոգչ

16:35

there is a rep limit required for adding new tags, which helps. probably

the problem is all the dudes that come with 101 rep from other SE sites

since i think that the rep limit is lower than than

checks

no, the new tag limit is 300 rep, which helps

RegDwighт

Here's the thing. The way I see it, we have to retag every single question anyway. So it makes no difference how many and which tags they misuse.

I'm just aiming for finer granularity, one, and easier hunting for dupes, two.

JSBձոգչ

easier dupe hunting is a noble goal, so i applaud your efforts

though i would have no idea what sp-as-pp meant if it weren't for the tag wiki

RegDwighт

The thing is, a sp-as-pp question is completely unfindable one day later unless you remember the exact verb it used. So we need a tag.

@JSBձոգչ again, stupid names. Quick and dirty. We can change them anytime. That can wait.

Finding and categorizing is the hard part.

Also, stupid system. I had actually simple-past-as-past-participle all spelled out there. But it got rejected because it's over the limit of 25.

Whyever that number got picked.

There are two or three tags more like that.

Robusto

baa-baa-black-sheep-have-you-any-wool

yes-sir-yes-sir-three-tags-full

RegDwighт

My RLU question is at 1021 views already. After one day. Eight answers, too. Those people must be starving.

In fact, I just noticed that mine is the first question they had all week.

That is a sad state of affairs.

Robusto

16:51

Russia is a sad state.

RegDwighт

Nah, sad is the last thing they are. Everybody drinking and whoring 25/8, what's not to love.

The reasons for that might be considered sad, but that's life for you.

RegDwighт

17:08

Spieleabend!

CU

MετάEd

17:42

you-re-it

user19161

@corn Do you like the limerick I wrote for you?

user19161

@RegDwighт Wow, have a cookie.

KitFox

18:06

Anyone here know anything about ftp?

Matt Эллен

file transfer protocol

blog talk

EL&U Blog

Discussion for the EL&U Blog. For more info see meta.english.s...

user19161

FTP vs HTTP, I am always reading up on which is better for downloads.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox what do you need to know?

user19161

The conclusion is that they are really about the same. Either can be faster depending.

KitFox

@MattЭллен I'm trying to remotely rename a file on an ftp server. I can successfully list the directory information, but the rename command won't work. It tells me the file isn't found.

Matt Эллен

18:10

@KitFox is thsi with the builtin ftp programme for windows?

or with soemthing else

KitFox

Via Visual Studio at the moment. I'm supposed to package it, but if I can do it in VS, I can do it in SSIS or whatever thingy.

Matt Эллен

oh! How do you ftp with VS?

normally ftp programmes have one command for renaming locally and one for renaming remotely

RegDwighт

0

A: Usage patterns of "надо" vs. "нужно"

надо = should vs нужно = have to

Oh FFS. Not that again.

Matt Эллен

they're so eager to help they tell you nothing of interest!

RegDwighт

Just what on Earth makes people think that that qualifies as anything at all, much less an answer?

22 hours ago, by RegDwighт

-2

A: Usage patterns of "надо" vs. "нужно"

More simple: надо = must; нужно = need.

KitFox

18:13

@MattЭллен FtpWebRequest. It works a lot like the HttpWebRequest stuff.

RegDwighт

That one got deleted so now I have to compose the exact same comment all over again.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox oh. interesting

i've not done it programmatically before

KitFox

I'm just not sure why I can't rename. Do you know if I need execute permissions for renaming?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwighт you could use references to late 80s highschool dramas in your new comment

KitFox

I thought write permissions were sufficient.

Matt Эллен

18:15

write should be enough, I think. unless you need separate permissions to write and delete

RegDwighт

We had a very similar "answer" already, and it got deleted, for very good reasons. First of all, this is only a rule of thumb with plently of exceptions. Secondly and most importantly, this dodges the question rather than answering it. Because now in order to know when to use надо vs. нужно I have to be fluent in two languages rather than one. You shift the focus to English, but that simply turns this into a question of when should is used over have to, which you leave unanswered. In short, this barely qualifies for a comment, much less for an answer. — RegDwight 20 secs ago

Matt Эллен

damn straight

RegDwighт

Dear Russians, just what part of "I have no problems simply using whichever sounds most natural in a given situation", "entire PhD theses have been written on the subject" and "a comprehensive overview would be nice" do you not understand?

►

KitFox

Maybe I am thinking about it wrongly. Maybe I should try it another way instead.

simchona

18:46

11

Q: Is tinyguru.com still violating the Stack Exchange CC license?

I am the developer of http://tinyguru.com. Before I failed to comply with the Creative Commons license used by the Stack Exchange websites. I believe I have now changed everything according to the guidelines. Can someone please review and tell me that it's fine now or not?

support

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@simchona wow, brazen

So apparently that guy lives near mahnax ca.linkedin.com/pub/ujas-patel/25/b20/a32

Cerberus

What an odd fellow.

Ça ne ce fait pas.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:04

So Angry-Birds: Star Wars is actually pretty fun

JSBձոգչ

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 how does that work?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

If you like Angry Birds, but wish your birds had light-sabres, well, now they do

JSBձոգչ

i played the original Angry Birds and found it to be incredibly tedious

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

In the original, most birds have a special power that is activated by tapping

in AB:SW the "luke" bird has a light-sabre, which can demolish bricks or pigs-in-stormtrooper-costumes. The Obi-Wan bird can use the force to move bricks and fling them around (it's actually pretty cool). The Luke bird can even block blaster bolts with the light-sabre

Cerberus

@JSBձոգչ Thank you!

I don't get why it is so popular.

cornbread ninja

19:11

@WillHunting yes

gaaa

dear gotham writers workshop: you are now 7 days overdue announcing the winner of that contest I entered.

I understand that you are underwater, but like, you've tweeted and sent out a newsletter since then, so.

MετάEd

@cornbreadninja Batman stories?

Or just Detroit area?

cornbread ninja

19:29

@MετάEd ha!

writingclasses.com/ContestPages

MετάEd

@cornbreadninja I'm going to say that it's still "on or around November 1" but in a couple of days it isn't.

Nine days late is Right Out.

And if it's not going to be Batman stories then it needs to be something like Lovecraft stories set in 18th or 19th century New York City.

Matt Эллен

MετάEd

"I will be shampooing my cat."

Carlo_R.

Hello everyone. Is there someone who want to talk about grammar?

MετάEd

6 mins ago, by MετάEd

"I will be shampooing my cat."

Cerberus

19:46

Haha.

@Carlo_R. Is there something you want to ask?

Carlo_R.

@Cerberus thank you.

Yes.

It is unclear to me how

a native speaker

can understand if

the sentence

"I could (verb)"

is referred to the past or

Cerberus

Context.

Only context can tell you.

Otherwise, it is ambiguous.

cornbread ninja

@MετάEd Cthulu's memoirs

MετάEd

@cornbreadninja I like it!

Carlo_R.

Oh, we have, for example, "Io potevo andare" and "Io potrei andare". These sentences are both translable with "I could go".

Cerberus

19:52

Yes.

Carlo_R.

@Cerberus thank you. You are so nice.

Cerberus

Both the past and the subjunctive distance the situation from the speaker, in a way.

You can't tell which kind of distance (in the past or in the uncertain present) it is based on the verb alone.

Isn't there a way to use a past tense to express a hypothetical condition in Italian?

It exists in Dutch, Greek, and French, and it was possible in Latin, though uncommon.

Carlo_R.

In dialect we can use past tense in the place of subjunctive, but in formal Italian we mast use the subjunctive form.

sorry, I want say "must".

Cerberus

Although I think it is only possible in conditional clauses in French.

@Carlo_R. Ah OK. That makes sense.

It is sometimes less formal in Dutch as well.

In French, I think it used to be informal too.

By the way, you can edit your previous chat line by pressing the "up" key if your text box is empty.

Carlo_R.

For example, it is acceptable to say "se potessi farlo sarei felice" for saying "se potevo farlo sarei felice".

or vice versa.

Cerberus

20:01

You mean the other way around, right?

Potevo being informal, potessi conventional?

►

Carlo_R.

@cerberus yes.

Cerberus

One of my favourite songs.

Carlo_R.

Well, in informal Italian you could say "Se potevo, amore mio, ti davo tuutto quello che vedo". Sorry "tutto".

Cerberus

Right.

I didn't know you could use it in the apodosis too.

In the main clause.

Carlo_R.

Informal Italian has no precise rule. You could say as you want.

Cerberus

20:07

Heh.

Carlo_R.

But in formal Italian you must say as Tenco said.

Cerberus

Buono.

Carlo_R.

Buono is good, but in this case we prefer "bene".

To give the idee of agreeing with someone we say "bene".

Cerberus

Right, right, I hesitated between the two.

Then decided on buono because you can say bon in French.

Carlo_R.

@cerberus Excuse me for the spelling, but with my phone I have great difficulties.

Cerberus

20:11

No matter.

Why are you on your phone, btw? Are you not at home?

Carlo_R.

Yes, I'm at home, but I preferr to stay on the bed. My age does not consent me great movement.

I noticed that, often, English speakers use "well" to say "bene".

Cerberus

OK.

Yeah, that happens.

Carlo_R.

This happen especially in starting some sentences.

Cerberus

Si.

But I have to go.

Bonne nuit!

Carlo_R.

For example: "Well, then I tell you ..."

Cerberus

20:15

Yeah.

Bye!

Carlo_R.

Good night. I hope to see you later.

Cerberus

poof

JSBձոգչ

21:14

2

A: Regular vs. irregular verbs

It may be that your teacher was wrong, or it may be that one of you confused "regular" verbs with "strong" verbs. In English linguistics (and Germanic languages in general), there are two classes of verbs known as the "strong verbs" and the "weak verbs". The strong verbs are those whose past ten...

my answer is awesome. i deserve all of the reps.

Matt Эллен

@JSBձոգչ so you're suggesting the teacher is a time traveller?

JSBձոգչ

i'm suggesting that the teacher doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground, or strong from regular verbs

Matt Эллен

oh! right :D

Carlo_R.

+1 @JSB; I was not aware of that difference.

@Matt Is "opposite" a word?

Matt Эллен

yes

opposite

JSBձոգչ

21:22

@RegDwighт LOOK I MADE A TAG to-into

but perhaps i'm doing it wrong

Matt Эллен

in-tutu

Carlo_R.

Thank you, @Matt.

Matt Эллен

no trouble :)

Mitch

@JSBձոգչ I was going to answer like Barrie answered. Not so awesome.

@JSBձոգչ BUt yes, you are awesome (for that answer). maybe for other things too, but for now, that answer.

Carlo_R.

22:07

Wonderful:

7

Q: Can dead men have erections and ejaculation?

This may sounds funny but when I searched about the question over the Internet, I found an overall report which stated as a conclusion: When the heart stops forcing the blood around the body, it pools in whatever area is lowest. Sometimes people die standing up and sometimes people die lying ...

physiology death

Robusto

22:24

Is SE having DDOS attacks today? They are sooo intermittently unavailable.

@JSBձոգչ Did you advise the irregular verbs to start using a stool softener?

Nile

22:46

Is using a font to promote a Make-A-Wish Silent Auction considered commercial use?

MετάEd

@Nile "A commercial use is one which is undertaken for a business purpose, rather than hobby, recreational, educational, or other purposes. Such uses are usually attributed to a for-profit entity, rather than an individual, university or other educational institutions, or non-profit organizations (such as public libraries, charities, and other organizations created for the promotion of social welfare)." USLegal.com

Make-A-Wish is a nonprofit for tax purposes, probably as a social welfare organization.

Notice that I did not answer your question. IANAL.

Nile

Alright, thanks @MετάEd

RegDwighт

23:45

@JSBձոգչ wait, bring/brought is not an ablaut?

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