English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

19:01

@tchrist What's that now?

tchrist

Apropos of nothing, I see that Maine and Maryland, Colorado and Washington have voted to secede from Jesusland. Oh wait, we did that a long time ago, didn’t we?

@KitFox I’m teasing you. I have seen Google gobbling up ridiculous amounts of browser time and making everything ｒｅａｌｌｙｓｌｏｗ． I have no idea what the hell they’re doing. I think it tickles Javascript bugs or something; not sure.

Hm, I need a nobreak space there.

KitFox

Dumbfuckistan. I like it.

It's got a nice ring to it.

cornbread ninja

I have an unhealthy attraction to single-word-requests

KitFox

I can't figure out how to hitch my search form to my listview.

cornbread ninja

Denversterdam.

Coloradolands!

. . . Netherado. k, I'm finished.

KitFox

19:09

Nederado.

cornbread ninja

Yes!

Unsafe at any elevation.

Oh, that's Naderado.

KitFox

picolomini

cornbread ninja

gesundheit.

tchrist

@KitFox Nederando means chilling out at Nederlands’ Frozen Dead Guy Days — permanently.

KitFox

Good to know.

I'd rather know why my forms aren't talking to each other though.

tchrist

19:16

One of them lost the vote, and the other took too much pleasure in not having done so. Happens in the best of families.

Obviously under the tutelage of Dorothy Parker:

0

A: What is the word for a path that is made naturally by the action of people walking?

When I took horticulture, my professor called this a desire line.

Since even if you take horticulture, you can’t make her think.

> All I need is room enough to lay a hat and a few friends. —Dorothy Parker

> Brevity is the soul of lingerie. —Dorothy Parker

> The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. —Dorothy Parker

I like to have a martini,
Two at the very most.
After three I'm under the table,
after four I'm under my host.
          —Dorothy Parker

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist Geez tchrist, your answer to that question! It's a single word request! Not a thousand-words request!

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Moderation is a fatal thing... Nothing succeeds like excess. —Oscar Wilde

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist I guess not!

tchrist

separates the wheat from the chaff

> It is absurd to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious. — Oscar Wilde

> Men always want to be a woman's first love. That is their clumsy vanity. We women have a more subtle instinct about things. What (women) like is to be a man's last romance. —Oscar Wilde

> Between men and women there is no friendship possible. There is passion, enmity, worship, love, but no friendship. —Oscar Wilde

Not sure he was the best judge of that one.

> A man’s face is his autobiography. A woman’s face is her work of fiction. —Oscar Wilde

> In America the young are always ready to give to those who are older than themselves the full benefits of their inexperience. —Oscar Wilde

> Men marry because they are tired; women because they are curious. Both are disappointed. —Oscar Wilde

KitFox

19:44

FFS. punches codez

cornbread ninja

Can marriage really be so dreadful, so changing?

What if you don't have kids?

KitFox

Are you trying to decide whether to get engaged?

Robusto

@cornbreadninja "To give is better than to receive—for example, wedding presents." — H. L. Mencken

@cornbreadninja In spite of what all the wags say, marriage isn't dreadful, or at least doesn't have to be. I've been married to the same woman lo these many years, and raised two fine sons, and I've loved every minute of it.

KitFox

I am having a really weird problem.

Robusto

Same same.

cornbread ninja

19:50

@KitFox that's not my choice. Well, I haven't been asked.

It isn't up to me to ask.

Internets?

KitFox

It's this listview I'm working on. I am having a really something odd.

cornbread ninja

I think it might be enough to know he would marry me.

I had a tubes-related notification a minute ago.

KitFox

I like being married. I'm pretty sure my husband does too.

cornbread ninja

It seems to be what you make of it.

KitFox

He was the first person I wanted to marry.

I'd been engaged twice before that.

cornbread ninja

19:52

:O

KitFox

It just seemed like the thing to do.

cornbread ninja

:)

KitFox

Which is of course the wrong reason.

cornbread ninja

I have never been asked.

KitFox

There didn't seem to be much of a question with my husband. It wasn't a "should I? shouldn't I?" kind of thing. We both felt like it was sort of a given.

I remember telling my roommate that I wish he would just hurry up and ask so we could get it over with and get on with our lives.

cornbread ninja

19:54

Sometimes I think he has considered it. Other times I think it has yet to cross his mind because youth.

KitFox

How old are you if you don't mind me asking?

cornbread ninja

32

He'll be 25 on Friday. (!)

KitFox

And he is what 20?

JSBձոգչ

@KitFox really? O_o

KitFox

Oh. Well. Yeah. He probably won't much think about it until kids or thirty.

JSBձոգչ

19:55

@KitFox that is very much the wrong reason

KitFox

@JSBձոգչ Yeah. High school sweetheart and the big ex-.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox I don't think he wants those.

JSBձոգչ

@cornbreadninja well, i was 22 when i got married, so age is not an absolute disqualifier

i have friends who got married at 19

KitFox

@cornbreadninja Well that's awkward.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox I don't.

I don't think anyone wants thirty.

KitFox

19:56

Well, thirty really isn't anything to kill yourself over.

As well you know.

cornbread ninja

Easy to say after thirty!

Here's the thing:

KitFox

I've enjoyed my thirties. Way better than my twenties despite the relative dearth of sexual relations.

Hahaha. Funny tween.

cornbread ninja

We have our own places, but we haven't slept apart for I-don't-know how long.

KitFox

How long have you been together?

cornbread ninja

1.5 years

I asked him in passing if he ever would like to share a cave

Carlo_R.

19:59

Then 18 months.

cornbread ninja

(we call our places caves)

so... I don't know if he's old-fashioned or what

Carlo_R.

I have never heard "1.5 years"

KitFox

What did he tell you?

Matt Эллен

then you've not been listening at the right times

cornbread ninja

@KitFox yes

@Carlo_R. you have now.

but . . . this is his first cave of his own, and he's going on one year there.

KitFox

20:01

I remember it gave me pause when I moved in with one of my boyfriends and then realized that he'd waited so long because he was worried about what his parents would think. He was 27. I thought that was mega lame.

@cornbreadninja Was he in a relationship before?

Carlo_R.

Good, I hope it is right. @cornbr

cornbread ninja

@KitFox if I understand you correctly, he lived with his parents before.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja But has he had long term relationships before? Have you?

cornbread ninja

@KitFox I don't know. Yeah, my record is four years.

KitFox

I'm sorry. I'm being nosy. I'm just curious.

@cornbreadninja You don't know? That's peculiar.

cornbread ninja

20:04

@KitFox I have a handful of peculiarities. We've never really discussed our ex-persons.

Save for my extreme heartbreak.

I'm not worried. Except when I think about how old I am and how old I might be should he get tired of me at some point.

Carlo_R.

I agree, it is right not talking about our ex-persons.

KitFox

That is nonsense.

JSBձոգչ

oldness has nothing to do with getting tired of someone

cornbread ninja

@JSBձոգչ sure, but I'm bound to be older when and if that happens.

Matt Эллен

I blame the second law of thermodynamics

JSBձոգչ

20:08

well, that's tough. if you're going to get married or whatever, you should feel confident that he's nt going to "get tired of you"

Carlo_R.

I agree with JSB too, we can tired after the first second in some. Cases

cornbread ninja

@JSBձոգչ I have a handful of peculiarities.

JSBձոգչ

peculiarities are fine. they keep things interesting.

i have more than a handful.

getting married at 22 is itself a peculiarity these days

cornbread ninja

How do you feel about marriage?

JSBձոգչ

it's awesome. best idea ever.

cornbread ninja

20:11

spits coffee

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I got married at 22 too

but I turned 23 that same month

Carlo_R.

@JSB yes, marriage is good, especially when we are over 40.

JSBձոգչ

@cornbreadninja no, seriously. i am a better person since i got married.

cornbread ninja

@JSBձոգչ do tell!

RegDwighт

Arrrr, curse you, @alenanno. This is what I get:

-2

A: Usage patterns of "надо" vs. "нужно"

More simple: надо = must; нужно = need.

JSBձոգչ

20:12

@RegDwighт that doesn't look like ELU

Carlo_R.

Before 40 the risk of divorce is very high.

cornbread ninja

@JSBձոգչ nyet.

RegDwighт

I actually say, and I quote, "I know that entire PhD theses have been written on the subject. So while I'm not asking for that level of detail, a comprehensive overview would be nice." — and this is what I get.

JSBձոգչ

@cornbreadninja being married keeps you honest. it lays bare your own flaws and the flaws of the person you're married to. you have to learn to forgive. you have to be kind. you have to understand. you have to be more than just yourself.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBձոգչ I am a better person since I have children.

KitFox

20:15

Me too.

cornbread ninja

@JSBձոգչ I'm a better person since I met him.

JSBձոգչ

like all good things, marriage done badly is one of the worst and most destructive things you have have in your life. but done well, it will transform you.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 that, too :)

RegDwighт

@JSBձոգչ actually this is what ELU looks like early in the morning when I come here to tidy the place up. Then a couple hours later you bring your lazy buttocks to the party to go all oh and ah, how tidy this place is.

4

KitFox

I have a partner. That was how I knew it was a good choice.

Carlo_R.

@Mr.Schin yes, having children changes the life; I agree.

simchona

20:17

I see he turned German, if he weren't already.

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwighт well that's what you get for living all the way over there in Europe

RegDwighт

Anyway. People not reading questions is one reason why I don't like posting questions.

JSBձոգչ

why don't you just move to America like normal people

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Carlo_R. The first night after my daughter was born, we were in the hospital, and my daughter cried, and it hit me: nobody but us is going to take care of this girl. She is the first priority, now and forever. Get it right.

RegDwighт

@JSBձոգչ I have to keep this place warm and cozy in case Mitt gets expatriated. I love Mitt. USA! USA!

user19161

20:18

@Carlo_R. Who is Mr. Schin?

simchona

@WillHunting A new German, I presume.

user19161

HAHAHAHAHA

tchrist

@Carlo_R. That because in speech, people always say a year and a half, but on the Internet’s quick-like-a-bunny typing habits, the hunters and peckers would rather type 1.5 than ³⁄₂, let alone “a year and a half” or some playful sesquiënnial neologism.

KitFox

I don't hunt and peck, and I would write 1.5.

user19161

@JSBձոգչ Done badly, it can also transform you into a better person.

KitFox

20:20

Because why bother with that other nonsense?

Carlo_R.

@Mr.Shiny yes, I had experienced the same thing with my wife. It was beautiful.

Matt Эллен

decimals are ftw

cornbread ninja

I tested at 83 WPM.

tchrist

A year and a half is a little easier to type than 1.5. Some people can’t find their way to the numeric row and back without looking.

user19161

@cornbreadninja Is that fast or slow?

tchrist

20:21

@cornbreadninja He needs that in metric.

cornbread ninja

@WillHunting neither.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist that's why there's a numpad!

RegDwighт

@tchrist chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=%C2%BD&room=95

Nice, eh.

tchrist

@MattЭллен Evil.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

a year and a half. 1.5 years. the second is faster for me.

Robusto

20:21

@cornbreadninja There's a three-year rule. The first year is all passion. The second year is about finding what the rest of the relationship is going to be about. The third year is usually about deciding whether any of that still works.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1½ years

user19161

It has been raining here and getting colder which is good.

RegDwighт

I used ½ OVER 9000½ times in this room. 8000½ times today alone. And yet, zero results. Coincidence? I think not!

tchrist

@RegDwighт Don’t they do an NFKC bit on it? Or something?

cornbread ninja

@Robusto I like it.

Matt Эллен

20:22

@tchrist having spent many a day typing in countless credit card numbers, I find it a great blessing :D

Robusto

Starting to snow here. Damn.

Carlo_R.

@tchrist thank you for explaining that.

user19161

It's good to be single actually.

RegDwighт

@tchrist Not Fried Kentucky Chicken?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Love the numpad!

tchrist

20:23

Well, there’s ½, and then there’s ¹⁄₂.

user19161

@Robusto After that, start all over with someone else. QED.

KitFox

Oh user. How did you mess up your credentials so badly?

Matt Эллен

@KitFox it's why I stay away from laptops, most of the time. although some are coming with numpads these days

Carlo_R.

@Rob are you in NY, in television I see it was snowing 30 minutes ago.

RegDwighт

@tchrist I will leave searching for the alternative as an excercise to the reader.

Robusto

20:24

@WillHunting You might have to. But it worked for me (after a couple of false starts).

cornbread ninja

I prefer roughing the passer.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox free will. They don't know they have it.

user19161

@Robusto Good for you. I almost said bro, but I realised you are rob which is an anagram of bro.

Robusto

@Carlo_R. Nope. Massachusetts.

@WillHunting That's a kindergarten anagram.

KitFox

@MattЭллен It's the comic sans, I think.

user19161

20:25

@Robusto All my jokes and anagrams belong to kindergarten.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox lol

tchrist

@RegDwighт NFKD = Unicode Normalization Form KD: Compatibility Decomposition.

simchona

@Carlo_R. on

Matt Эллен

congrats on your word count, @Kit. I'm still catching up.

RegDwighт

6

Q: Verb confusion with "noun upon noun"?

I am copy editing a manuscript in which the author has written the following sentence: Rank upon rank of theologians has envisioned God the Father as the omniscient and omnipotent one. "Rank upon rank" suggests a plurality, so my instinct is to change "has" to "have". Am I right? Alternat...

This is a title?

user19161

20:26

@simchona He might take that to mean on NY, lol.

RegDwighт

I have a question?

Robusto

@RegDwighт This is a litotes?

KitFox

@MattЭллен Me too. You can do it!

tchrist

Oh you uptalking kid you?

Robusto

@RegDwighт Good. You kept it to yourself.

user19161

20:26

I never looked up litotes, still don't know what it means.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting small small bags

tchrist

@WillHunting It’s the diminutive of the VV form totes.

Matt Эллен

or small socks

user19161

@tchrist I thought that was a special W at first. Then I realised it is a double V.

RegDwighт

It's people from Lituania. Singular litote.

tchrist

20:28

@WillHunting Vulgar Vernacular.

user19161

@RegDwighт Lithuania.

tchrist

It means less than totally, like.

RegDwighт

@WillHunting whoosh.

user19161

@RegDwighт OMG!

user19161

I keep getting whooshed.

RegDwighт

20:29

People from Lithuania are called lithotes, with an H.

simchona

@WillHunting Should be used to it by now.

Robusto

I thought they were called Litwaks, or something like that.

tchrist

@WillHunting He doesn’t actually require the vocative, you know. The @ serves as vocative punctuation.

simchona

Technically, my family is from the Lithuania/Latvia region. We think. Until the borders moved.

tchrist

@simchona I thought you were Asian?

simchona

20:30

@tchrist Doesn't mean I'm only Asian

RegDwighт

@Robusto yes, short for Litfaßsäule. You see, most keyboards in Lithuania are Russian so they don't have the ß and the ä.

Ernst Litfaß

Ernst Amandus Theodor Litfaß (), (February 11, 1816 – December 27, 1874) was a German printer and publisher. His claim to fame rests on the invention of the free-standing cylindrical advertising column which bears his name. Biography Born in Berlin, Litfaß took over his stepfather's business in 1845 and became the editor of a number of newspapers and pamphlets. As publisher, he completed, in 1858, the edition of the Oekonomische Encyklopädie (in 242 volumes), which had been started by Johann Georg Krünitz in 1773. In 1854 Litfaß proposed putting up columns in the streets of Berli...

Haha that reads funny. As if he just put his name on one advertising column somewhere. I can do that, too!

tchrist

@simchona Oh, ok. Everybody is actually everything, you know. It’s just few of us are aware of just how and when that pans out. You’re fortunate.

@RegDwighт It worked for Trajan.

RegDwighт

@tchrist Yeah I liked him in Machete.

tchrist

I had to teach @Cerb about Trajans the other day. I think he was afraid I was trying to sneak Trojans into the convo.

user19161

I am sure the matress wasn't a whoosh though @reg. =)

tchrist

20:33

Maîtresse

Maîtresse is a 1976 French film directed by Barbet Schroeder, starring Bulle Ogier and, in one of his earliest leading roles, Gérard Depardieu. The film provoked controversy in the United Kingdom and the United States because of its graphic depictions of sado-masochism. Synopsis Olivier (Depardieu) is a small-time crook. He and a friend happen to meet a woman, Ariane (Ogier) whose plumbing needs to be fixed. They fix the pipes and learn that the landlord downstairs is away. They take the opportunity to burgle him. However they discover that in fact downstairs Ariane has a torture chambe...

Robusto

@tchrist How crept that widow Dido in?

RegDwighт

@WillHunting which matress? I didn't say matress. In fact you told me not to say matress.

Jan 13 at 15:43, by Will Hunting

You also must not say matress.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> Rank upon rank of theologians has envisioned God the Father as the omniscient and omnipotent one.

Is the subject "rank" or "theologians"?

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 > Wish upon wish upon day upon day

tchrist

@Robusto It’s all Æneas has left to him after he told her to get the L outta there.

RegDwighт

20:34

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 theologians.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

because I'd say "theologians" and yet the first two answers to that question say it's "rank".

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 they will always say that on all questions of this kind.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт So the verb should be "have" then, right?

Robusto

@tchrist Any ass would have left her on that island.

user19161

By the way, just to remind everyone, Mr. S should be pinged as at mr. now and not at mrs.

RegDwighт

20:35

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 it's a noun phrase that functions as a single unit with the meaning "many", just like "a lot of", "a number of", and the zillions others that have been beaten to death on this site.

Robusto

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

Not for the faint of heart or those easily triggered by Englis...

1

RegDwighт

Someone should just do a corpus search.

user19161

@Robusto What's that for?

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wave after wave of starry-eyed new recruits are ready to sashay to the sound of the very same fife-and-drum parade as had their grandfather’s grandfathers before them.

Carlo_R.

@sim thank you, prepositions are very difficult to use. Nortonn S docet.

Robusto

20:37

►

tchrist

“After” counts as “and”, forming a conjoined subject.

Robusto

@tchrist If they were conjoined, wouldn't there be two of them?

tchrist

Separated at birth.

RegDwighт

Well. COCA has a whopping 10 cites, and a whopping one of them actually has a verb that needs agreement. Still, it uses the plural.

> RANK UPON RANK OF 400-FOOT SANDSTONE TOWERS DOMINATE THE CENTRAL THIRD OF SAND TANK CANYON

KitFox

Rank is a collective noun, innit?

RegDwighт

20:42

How so? You can have many ranks.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Et habeas corpus? Me, I don’t know how to do a corpus search for /\b(\w+) \s+(?:after|upon|by)\s+\1\b/i. Ask @MετάEd.

Never imagined rank as a collective noun. How would that work? The rank and file, maybe?

KitFox

@RegDwighт Well, true.

@tchrist That's kind of what I was thinking.

tchrist

I had some property damage this morning from overnight ursine marauders.

KitFox

I must go. Later.

tchrist

I think the rank and file is just an extended simile or something.

Metanym.

RegDwighт

20:43

@tchrist why would I need to do that? I just go to COCA and type [n] upon [n] of.

Carlo_R.

I know that what I say is zero equivalent, but in my language after "rank upon rank" we use singular form for the verb.

RegDwighт

Now here's a game for y'all. Which noun is the most popular, by far?

tchrist

populus

Robusto

A parallel construction would be "Stone after stone was thrown at the witch." Not were thrown, mind you.

@RegDwighт Sex!

tchrist

As in Populus tremuloides, a most popular tree.

Carlo_R.

20:45

"Step upon step" is another.

tchrist

@Carlo_R. Use that as a subject.

RegDwighт

@Robusto yes, "sex upon sex" gets OVER 9000 hits, outdone only by "lesbian sex upon lesbian sex".

Robusto

@RegDwighт That's why we go over and over and over this stuff.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Sounds like too much of a good thing.

Carlo_R.

@tchrist I cannot think to an example of that kind.

Robusto

20:47

@tchrist No such thing. If it's good, someone will steal it or stop it or cancel it or forbid it.

RegDwighт

> Through the past century, layer upon layer of well-intentioned reforms have led to the promulgation and emendation of a gargantuan,

Whoa buddy, hold on with the big words.

Alenanno

@RegDwighт Ahah :D not my fault!

RegDwighт

There are extremely few cites with a verb. I'm almost through with the layers, and so far that's the only cite.

> Layer upon layer of thick gray cloud gradually piled up over the city, bearing ever lower

Note how it's plural even with a singular noun.

tchrist

@RegDwighт ?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт Is that a singular noun, or an uncountable mass noun? Not that it would matter for verb agreement

tchrist

20:53

I see no verb inflected according to number. What are you looking at?

RegDwighт

@tchrist oh right, past tense. Well scrap that.

Russian mode. Our verbs behave properly in the past.

tchrist

Some of ours were behaving properly in the past, but one was not. Or is that the other way around?

RegDwighт

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 never mind. You can use the first example, though, your query doesn't match it anyway.

tchrist

be wins again.

Why do people keep giving the same answer? If it adds nothing to what has been already said, why are they doing this?

Plus it isn’t even a possible candidate.

There’s a surfeit of desire there.

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…