English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

alphabet

00:42

So, is this guy who wrote to NYT's The Ethicist a troll, or is that just wishful thinking?

Cerberus

00:56

The starer?

Robusto

@alphabet Dunno, but as a card-carrying heterosexual, I can tell you that even at my age it's often hard not to look, especially if it's summer and the woman is dressed to kill. Hey, I'm human. Sue me.

Attraction and Ogling - Six Days and Seven Nights

►

alphabet

@Cerberus Yes.

I mean, how could this guy not know what the answer would be?

Cerberus

Maybe a fake letter.

Or a bit of autism.

Robusto

Maybe someone who wants some modicum of acknowledgment.

Cerberus

Most likely: a poorly written letter, and the answer failed to ask for the required specifics, to wit, the duration and circumstances of his inspections.

alphabet

01:01

How tf is it "unfair" that women in tight pants are sexy but men "aren't allowed" to look?

What notion of fairness is involved here?

Cerberus

Of course men are allowed to look at women's butts.

Just not for too long nor too intimidatingly.

The answerer says that, too.

Robusto

Drooling is frowned upon.

Cerberus

Yeah the wet spots get annoying.

Robusto

I was walking up a crowded 5th Avenue in Manhattan one day, with my wife, and an attractive woman wearing yoga pants maneuvered her way in front of me. To avoid temptation, I tacked to one side, but then she came right back, smack dab in my view. For the sake of my marriage I moved out of the sidewalk traffic and stopped to tie my shoe, which was not untied. If I'd been alone, I would probably have just continued to enjoy the view.

Cerberus

@Robusto What would your wife have done if you had continued behaving normally, then?

Robusto

01:11

If she saw me watching she would probably have frowned, and it would have annoyed her. She wouldn't have divorced me, if that's what you mean. But it would have soured the mood a bit.

alphabet

Maybe it's just me. Being attracted to random strangers in public always feels...deeply uncomfortable and perilous. I can't imagine not actively trying to look away.

Cerberus

But you wouldn't have been staring, you'd have been looking the where you normally look when you walk.

@alphabet That is a worded a bit strongly.

But I would never look in a way that I thought could be interpreted as more than a casual glance, unless I were sure he or she didn't notice.

Robusto

@Cerberus Women are aware of where their men are gazing.

Cerberus

But would you gaze?

Robusto

Let's just say there's an undeniable focus.

alphabet

01:16

@Cerberus Just that general "This ends badly, avoid it" feeling.

jlliagre

Wordle 1,318 4/6

⬛⬛⬛🟩🟩
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Daily Octordle #1099
7️⃣🟥
5️⃣3️⃣
🕐🔟
🕛8️⃣
Score: 72

Daily Sequence Octordle #1099
5️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 75

Daily Extreme Octordle #1099
5️⃣9️⃣
3️⃣🔟
6️⃣8️⃣
🕚7️⃣
Score: 59

Robusto

@jlliagre Took your sweet time. ;-)

jlliagre

@Robusto Chi va piano va sano.

Robusto

@jlliagre I can't go slow in the morning, even though I may need to.

CowperKettle

01:49

Sensory processing in humans and mice fluctuates between external and internal modes

tchrist

02:59

@Xanne The comment locks are always for the same reason: because people are giving answers in comments. What do you want me to do, suspend them?

In this instance, I strongly prefer not to reveal who all was doing this but any other site mod can confirm that this was so. I'm sure you can imagine from the usual suspects who are always doing this. Same old, same old.

Xanne

@tchrist Well I am certainly sometimes guilty. But I thought you just moved the comments.

tchrist

@Xanne Often I do do that. This time I did not.

alphabet

Usually the best way to punish such people is to repost their comments as answers yourself

You can make it a community wiki so that you aren't accruing their reputation for yourself

Or you can not do that and just decide to be evil

Because they're asking for it

Robusto

Draw an iceberg and see how it will float!

Xanne

03:17

@alphabet I’ve done that. And decided not to make it a wiki :-)

Vikas

alphabet

03:40

@Xanne Good!

@Vikas That a photo you took?

CowperKettle

03:59

Beautiful green field

Xanne

@alphabet Here’s my finest. I thought the overall discussion was quite funny and was surprised no one deleted anything, nor did anyone object except EA to suggest a wiki english.stackexchange.com/questions/628533/…

3

Q: Is there a more widespread term for Estuary English, the British English dialect?

A British English note-giver on a text of mine remarked that she was unaware of the term 'Estuary English'. It makes me wonder: is 'Estuary English' mainly used by language professionals? If so, would 'Cockneyfied RP' be more broadly understood by Brits?

Wordle 1,319 3/6

⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
🟩🟨⬜⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Connections
Puzzle #597
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟪🟪🟪🟪

Strands #331
“Stable supply”
💡🔵🔵💡
🔵🔵💡🔵
🟡🔵

That last one wasn’t perfect, even by my standards.

Vikas

04:37

@alphabet Yes

Yesterday evening.

alphabet

04:50

@Vikas Wow!

Anyway, regarding our conversation about the Maidan Revolution earlier, this is how one does the whole "overthrowing the government" thing:

Note to the DOJ: everything I say is a joke, and raccoons are outside your jurisdiction.

Cerberus

05:28

@alphabet Only if the government is weak enough.

Remember where else this was tried?

Xanne

Tiananmen Square

1989

Has anyone tried chat.deepseek.com? Apparently quite good without the latest chips, and supposedly open source. It really got to the U.S. stock market this morning, and probably will do so again today.

alphabet

05:52

@Cerberus Pessimism is everyone's favorite excuse for not even trying to solve things. Not that I'm endorsing this.

May I go on my regularly scheduled rant about the lengths people will go to to deny that they have agency so that they can excuse themselves for not doing anything?

Like all those people who spend their time complaining about how the system is irredeemably broken and corrupt--not because they plan to lift a finger to change it, but because an unfixable problem is one you can't be blamed for not helping try to solve.

Cerberus

@jlliagre I didn't see this earlier, it is a great answer!

jlliagre

08:57

@Cerberus Thanks. You definitely deserve a share of its merit because the comment The answer gives a valid bit of information, though it is only in a single sentence so I guess that could be expanded upon strongly motivated me to dig further. In addition to French ones, it was fun reading Occitan, Catalan, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian and German etymology books to find out clues.

Xanne

09:55

@Cerberus Are you feeling better?

It’s morning over there I believe.

SmokeDetector

10:12

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (64): Can you "wish something to someone"?‭ by Kara zoe‭ on english.SE

Vikas

10:51

> Due to large-scale malicious attacks on DeepSeek's services, registration may be busy. Please wait and try again. Registered users can log in normally. Thank you for your understanding and support.

GratefulDisciple

12:09

@MetaEd Yeah, along with 1989 Tiananmen Square, no amount of whitewashing can ever justify CCP from the imprisonment of Jimmy Lai as much as I loathe to restrict myself to demonstrations that are peaceful instead of the one that started well (Euromaidan protest) but descended into violence to Ukranian Revolution.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, bad keyword in title, bad phone number in body, bad phone number in title, potentially bad keyword in body, +1 more (394): Finlandia loan app CusTomer care helpline number//=9198418843=9198418843)‭ by Rahul kumar Rahulkumar‭ on english.SE

GratefulDisciple

12:26

@Cerberus Thanks. I understand your point better now, that "gradual constitutionalisation and democratisation" shouldn't be attributed to the cases I mentioned. I really need to study more European history to identify the factors leading to their downfall and see whether any of them can be linked to the political power and the aspiration of the Middle class.

Given the deep Confucianism of the vast majority of Chinese people (including myself, actually), short of the causes you identify, non-revolutionary means will depend on the majority of people themselves to both 1) obtain economic+political power and 2) to desire another form of government that is more democratic.

GratefulDisciple

12:38

This is an interesting 2023 blog article reporting a conference on how CCP is trying to integrate Confucianism (with its 1990s Confucianism revival) to CCP's political vision (which is going beyond pure Marxism), in contrast with the liberal democratic approach. @Cerberus This would represents one way to ameliorate CCP abuses that takes into account a typical Chinese sensibility.

CowperKettle

2

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus This possibly unauthorized download of Chapter 3: The CCP's Exploitation of Confucianism and Legalism from The Routledge Handbook on the Chinese Communist Party (2017) goes more in depth into CCP's fusing historic Confucianism and the Sinicizing of Marxism, also providing a good summary of core Confucian ideals.

My personal hope is that this ongoing synthesis also incorporates Thomism despite this year is only Aquinas's 800th birthday, but Jesus's (arguably) 2,029th birthday, Aristotle's 2,409th birthday, Confucius's 2,576th birthday, and Buddha's 2,588th birthday. There must be enough merit in those 5 men's ideas to steer a country in a better direction, IF the population is creative enough to make them relevant today.

CowperKettle

13:02

@GratefulDisciple I wonder how the Chinese people get to learn Confucianism. Is it taught in schools?

GratefulDisciple

@CowperKettle It's a family tradition mediated through annual family rituals. Even my dad who does NOT do the rituals and who has been decades under the sway of Western thinking (see my posts a few weeks ago on for how my dad was affected by Bertrand Russell) found it important to tell me in the last days of his life (part of his final message) about Confucianism after NEVER talking about it in my adult years. So I would say it's deeply ingrained in a Chinese person's cultural gene.

CowperKettle

@GratefulDisciple What are these rituals?

I thought Confucianism was about reading books, but it starts in childhood by seeing grown-ups performing rituals?

I feel myself part of the "Orthodox Christian" culture, even though we in our family never went to church or do any praying etc.

GratefulDisciple

@CowperKettle That's exactly right. Rituals embody the principles, and children learn by seeing the elders do them. A child can be Confucian without realizing it and without reading Confucian books.

@CowperKettle Maybe similar.

@CowperKettle One of the rituals is associated with Chinese New Year; children go to their parents and their grandparents to pay respect and receive blessing (part of it is envelope filled with money). Another ritual is maintaining altar to venerate one's deceased father, grandparent, and ancestors. It falls on the eldest son to carry out this tradition.

In South Korea it is very strongly enforced, even companies are obligated to provide holiday for an employee to do this, which is annual anniversary of death. The rituals involve leading family prayers with prescribed motions and words, and preparing banquet in honor of the deceased for all relatives to participate.

CowperKettle

Nice!

GratefulDisciple

Another ritual is one that I witnessed my dad do when I was about 10: funeral ritual in front of his dad's coffin, which was quite elaborate (I don't quite know the words and the meanings, only witness the utmost respect my dad gave him), fused with some Buddhist practices. But as the eldest son, my dad was expected to do this, witnessed by all his sisters & brother and their descendants.

I remember being confused and didn't know what to do, and my mom (who was a Protestant) just asked me to pray in a Christian manner for my dad's deceased father.

@CowperKettle Another signs of how deeply ingrained Confucian values are is when I witnessed going to a Chinese restaurant with my dad who by that time had to be on walker and walked very slowly from the car to the front door, while I'm standing next to him just in case he needs assistance. A Chinese family who arrived just after, holding the door open for us and waited about a full minute instead of just going in first, out of respect for my dad who was oldest in that impromptu group.

3

CowperKettle

13:22

@GratefulDisciple This is good!

Fukuyama tells of this, he contrasts it with the British medieval practices when a son could just throw out his elderly parent if the parent was not cautious enough to retain some property or make him sign a contract

GratefulDisciple

@CowperKettle Yes, it is good. Among Chinese, taking care of elderly parents is an imperative higher than most other obligations.

Robusto

14:09

#WhenTaken #336 (28.01.2025)

I scored 717/1000🎗️

1️⃣📍2.2 km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥇197/200
2️⃣📍6.5K km - 🗓️2 yrs - 🥉112/200
3️⃣📍1.3K km - 🗓️8 yrs - 🥈154/200
4️⃣📍244 km - 🗓️13 yrs - 🥈167/200
5️⃣📍522 km - 🗓️33 yrs - 🥉87/200

https://whentaken.com

jlliagre

14:24

#WhenTaken #336 (28.01.2025)

I scored 907/1000👑

1️⃣📍35.8 km - 🗓️16 yrs - 🥈165/200
2️⃣📍205 km - 🗓️1 yrs - 🥇191/200
3️⃣📍742 km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥇175/200
4️⃣📍151 km - 🗓️0 yrs - 🥇194/200
5️⃣📍94.6 km - 🗓️9 yrs - 🥇182/200

https://whentaken.com

Robusto

Wordle 1,319 5/6

⬛⬛⬛🟩⬛
⬛⬛🟨⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

Wordle 1,319 5/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟨🟨⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟩🟨🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Daily Octordle #1100
3️⃣4️⃣
7️⃣🕐
5️⃣🔟
🕛🟥
Score: 68

Daily Sequence Octordle #1100
3️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
Score: 66

jlliagre

15:01

Daily Extreme Octordle #1100
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣🕚
9️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣🔟
Score: 60

jlliagre

15:15

Connections
Puzzle #597
🟨🟨🟪🟩
🟪🟨🟦🟩
🟩🟦🟪🟦
🟨🟦🟩🟦
:-(

Robusto

Daily Octordle #1100
4️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣7️⃣
5️⃣🔟
🕛🕚
Score: 66

Daily Sequence Octordle #1100
4️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 74

Daily Extreme Octordle #1100
8️⃣🕚
5️⃣🔟
7️⃣6️⃣
9️⃣3️⃣
Score: 59

@jlliagre I think you do better on the Sequences than I do, probably because I try to get a lot of letters to work with at the beginning. I don't want to go into the later stages unequipped!

tchrist

15:38

We seem to have a lot of new questions on the main today.

Vikas

16:04

@CowperKettle IIRC, you can't integrate/derivate e^x. Something like that. Mathematical terms.

Robusto

@tchrist I did my bit. Now must ride.

MetaEd

16:59

@Cerberus The idea was stated as use AI to do the actual work. Smart surveillance cameras etc. Higher level bureaucrats don't do surveillance or other policing activities. They aren't the robocops. They won't be replaced. The people who will be replaced are the ones on the ground doing the actual work.

Cerberus

@MetaEd But that is only the beginning.

It will get really scary when the higher-ups are replaced.

MetaEd

@Cerberus The powerful upper level bureaucrats are absolutely the ones who will be kept. Those are the people that have close ties to the tyrant, that he trusts to put his will into action. He can't be the project manager of ten thousand projects. He needs ten thousand bureaucrats, he already has them, and he'll use them. They'll be the ones who make his AI plans a reality.

Cerberus

Why do you think he could not replace them with A.I.?

I need to take my nap now, btw.

GratefulDisciple

It's tricky today. I almost didn't get it
Connections
Puzzle #597
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟨🟦🟪🟨
🟪🟨🟨🟨
🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟪🟦🟪🟦
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟪🟪🟪🟪

@Cerberus Hope you feel better today.

jlliagre

17:40

@Vikas You can, and the result is still e^x. That's the joke.

M.A.R.

@Vikas math jokes are even nerdier than chemistry jokes

You're not missing out on much

alphabet

18:19

4

Q: Are rescind and resend homophones?

Rescind and resend are homophones and easily confused words. The following sentence uses both words correctly: Cilla was beside herself with anxiety: had Tyler rescinded his interest taking her to the dance, or did he merely need to resend a text message confirming that they definitely were goin...

verbs american-english pronunciation homophones

A rather contintious matter.

GratefulDisciple

18:33

@alphabet It's my turn now to excoriate a newspaper for misspelling (The Hill's interview with Bishop Budde), but this time I would think the Bishop said correctly but the article author transcribe the answer wrongly. "a pretty solid Christian spiritual tenet" instead of "tenant". Maybe they use automated tool, but should have reviewed it better.

On a similar topic, I'm glad that Christianity Today exposed the effects of the deeply un-Christian TCG's action against the vulnerable: Trump’s First Week Sends Shudders Through Immigrant Churches and Ministries

M.A.R.

18:49

@GratefulDisciple they have no use for Christianity if it doesn't help them hate people and instead says commie things like giving people bread and wine

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. Yes, and that's what deeply offensive to Christians (like me) who wants to stay true to the message of Jesus, and what makes me very disappointed in churches who stay silent when the message has been turned into a mere political tool.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer, username similar to website in answer (76): word usage Electricity charges or Electricity Rate‭ by electricityforum‭ on english.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in answer, potentially problematic ns configuration in answer, username similar to website in answer, blacklisted user (151): When to use "electricity" and when to use "power"?‭ by electricityforum‭ on english.SE

GratefulDisciple

19:06

The transcript of Bishop Budde's sermon is published by The Guardian. She proposes 3 "foundations of unity" that I completely agree: 1) inherent dignity of every human being, thus don't demonize; 2) honesty in private and public discourse; thus fact check; 3) humility as fallible human; thus acknowledge mistakes, blind spots and biases instead of speaking in absolutes.

MetaEd

20:26

Wordle 1,319 4/6

⬛🟨⬛⬛🟨
⬛⬛⬛🟩🟩
⬛⬛⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Robusto

0

Q: What is the antonym of "nuance"?

What I'm Searching For I refer to the uncountable noun (as opposed to the colloquial verb). It refers to "subtle distinction", according to Merriam-Webster. That is how I utilize it. Why I wanted to say the opposite of "this policy lacks nuance", in a discussion regarding account terminations at ...

single-word-requests antonyms

Another closure by The Usual Suspects ...

Connections
Puzzle #597
🟪🟪🟪🟪
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟨🟨🟨🟨

That took way longer than I like. I'm going back to the simple first-come, first-served strategy.

Robusto

20:47

Strands #331
“Stable supply”
🟡🔵🔵🔵
🔵🔵🔵

MetaEd

21:22

Connections
Puzzle #597
🟪🟪🟪🟪
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟨🟦🟨🟨
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟨🟨🟨🟨

@Robusto It got me.

Robusto

21:40

@MetaEd Not an easy one.

CowperKettle

> If no measurements can be made below the Planck scale, perhaps space-time as we know it doesn’t exist there.

Robusto

Anagram of the Day: red hat -> hatred and as of today dearth (Trump cuts funding for everything)

CowperKettle

quantamagazine.org/…

red rum → murder

Robusto

@CowperKettle Yes, a Shining example ...

Also thread, but that don't mean shit.

CowperKettle

Here, my mind broke.

They are probably trying to explain with words a concept that can only be understood with formulas

Cerberus

21:56

@CowperKettle Sure, why not.

@MetaEd OMG noo...here goes my faith.

MetaEd

@CowperKettle You can't spell murder without red and rum, but you also can't spell it without drum, rude, and emu.

(also Dürer, but that's a stretch)

Apropos of this, Thurber is a Hubert, a brute, a tuber, a burr, an herb, a rube -- and though it will hurt, it is all true.

Cerberus

22:41

@CowperKettle youtube.com/shorts/ztI1PCEAGcc

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…