« first day (5171 days earlier)      last day (45 days later) » 

Robusto
Robusto
00:09
How did cheddar ever get to mean dough? Discuss.
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@tchrist If I'm at my desktop computer, I "type them". If I'm using my smartphone, I "tap them". If I'm using a speech synthesizer, I "say them".
handan_toddler
handan_toddler
> Derived from the fact Americans on welfare used to receive cheese as part of their benefits.
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@tchrist Couldn't resist to write my own answer.
handan_toddler
handan_toddler
With GPT, "Discuss" questions need to be re-thought.
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@tchrist Haven't watched much ST Original Series. Was Sulu pushing buttons on the console to enter the coordinates similar to how we used to "punch phone number" in the newer push-button telephone, rather than using the rotary dial phone? Boy do those phones bring back memories.
Mitch
Mitch
00:18
@jlliagre *le case
jlliagre
jlliagre
@Mitch C'est le cas de le dire.
/se.lka.dlə.diʁ/
Robusto
Robusto
00:47
@handan_toddler ding
handan_toddler
handan_toddler
:D
Robusto
Robusto
@handan_toddler There are other avenues to that answer besides GPT. AI be damned.
handan_toddler
handan_toddler
Sure, but speed is the main selling point.
11 hours ago, by handan_toddler
Yup, time is money.
Anybody who expects garbage in, gospel out is living in a dreamland.
Robusto
Robusto
@handan_toddler It was in Breaking Bad.
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
Strange Molecular Structures Inside Our Cells Hint at Origins of Life
►
Cerberus
Cerberus
01:09
@CowperKettle Hmm so what is this speculated origin?
Can't watch the video at the moment.
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
@Cerberus RNA world, with RNA forming 'condensates'
Condensates have been found in human cells
They are structures that serve specialized functions, but strangely they are not enveloped in a membrane, like other structures (organelles).
Since this is a 'simpler' form than being enveloped, they may be linked to the earliest 'alive' molecules.
Or maybe not. Who knows
Cerberus
Cerberus
Hmm so 'loose' RNA might be the oldest form of life?
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
Yes
RNA world
The RNA world is a hypothetical stage in the evolutionary history of life on Earth in which self-replicating RNA molecules proliferated before the evolution of DNA and proteins. The term also refers to the hypothesis that posits the existence of this stage. Alexander Rich first proposed the concept of the RNA world in 1962, and Walter Gilbert coined the term in 1986. Among the characteristics of RNA that suggest its original prominence are that: Like DNA, RNA can store and replicate genetic information. Although RNA is considerably more fragile than DNA, some ancient RNAs may have evolved the...
Cerberus
Cerberus
OK makes sense.
handan_toddler
handan_toddler
01:25
that's why virus's are not considered as "life"
Mitch
Mitch
02:06
@jlliagre that's what I keep typing but autocorrect (for English) happens just when I submit
jlliagre
jlliagre
@Mitch Je comprends. Il m'arrive aussi souvent la même chose.
Mitch
Mitch
@GratefulDisciple I've been watching that lately. They all just lightly press the desk in front of them. No such thing as punching.
Re that series, I have very fond memories of the entire TOS... but rewatching it is ... hard to watch. The acting, the things they say, the way they treat each other is all awful
The stories are all great though.
 
3 hours later…
alphabet
alphabet
05:20
@Araucaria-Him So: CGEL claims that sentences like "That's who I meant" contain an interrogative clause, not a fused relative (p. 1077). They justify this assertion by noting that, unlike in pseudo-cleft sentences, you can't reverse them--and that does seem to apply here: "Who we know about is that" doesn't make any sense, unlike with the fused relatives found in pseudo-cleft sentences.
Not, of course, that CGEL has to be right about everything. They go on to claim that the sentence "That is exactly against what we should be fighting now" is grammatical--marking another difference from a fused relative--but surely it sounds more than a bit off.
Vikas
Vikas
05:35
@Mitch In the age of AI, autocorrect shouldn't create such frustrating issues. It needs to be much smarter.
alphabet
alphabet
On a much more important note:
2
Q: Conditional sentence in the song "What Makes You Beautiful"

KaidenA small part of the lyrics in the song "What Makes You Beautiful" is If only you saw what I can see, you'll understand why I want you so desperately. But according to the second conditional sentence structure (If + Past Simple, Would + infinitive), should this sentence not be as follows? If on...

conditionals lyrics songs
Can someone please come up with an answer that will exculpate that band's members?
I coulda sworn that the lyric was "you'd"--the band's official website lists it as such in one instance--but it's pretty a "you'll," as is particularly obvious in other performances of it you can find on YouTube. (Why yes, I spent too much time on this.)
CGEL, notational conventions, p. xii: a '♥️' is used to mark examples said by Harry Styles. All such examples are assumed to be grammatical. (Yes, he was only six when that book was written. They were quite prophetic, no?)
(Also: another good example of Standard Pop Song English. Absolutely nobody speaks with that accent, least of all them.)
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
06:07
What is so interesting about Swahili? I feel like whenever a linguist mentions Swahili you can't dispute him
@handan_toddler in the near future we will probably encounter viruses that carry a bit more 'reproductive machinery'. That would certainly make this discussion more interesting.
alphabet
alphabet
user image
How wonderful the magic of AI can be.
Cerberus
Cerberus
It does look quite AI.
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
The guy's hairline is like a checkmark
But what gives it away for me is that their features are too smooth. Feels like amateur picture editing
Cerberus
Cerberus
06:32
@M.A.R. Checkmark?
Yes, too smooth.
And also weird details here and there that look like Photoshop automation.
alphabet
alphabet
@Cerberus Alas, ours was a forbidden love.
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Cerberus it's asymmetrical. Very
Cerberus
Cerberus
It could be symmetrical below the lock on the left?
alphabet
alphabet
Yes, it's not too different from his actual hairstyle (or at least his past one).
Cerberus
Cerberus
He is a real person?
alphabet
alphabet
06:37
See the messages right before that post.
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
@Cerberus that lowermost lock of hair looks out of place. Come on
@alphabet oh the Dunkirk guy
alphabet
alphabet
user image
Same level of asymmetry, more or less, no?
Cerberus
Cerberus
@M.A.R. It does look a bit odd.
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
Huh, I guess. Maybe I'm too unfamiliar with thousand-dollar haircuts
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
07:27
> Nvidia unveiled Project Digits, a “personal AI supercomputer” that provides access to the company’s Grace Blackwell hardware platform in a compact form factor.
An AI system with up to 200 billion parameters, in a desktop factor, for $3000
Vikas
Vikas
07:48
Let's wait for AI generated GPU by NVIDIA.
Xanne
Xanne
08:09
Wordle 1,298 3/6

🟩🟨⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
08:56
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in body, potentially bad asn for hostname in body, potentially bad keyword in body, potentially bad keyword in title (97): 100 Free PSN Codes 100 Working PSN Codes Give PSNZone a chance‭ by Adminn Vai‭ on english.SE
jlliagre
jlliagre
09:25
@M.A.R. An expensive hairy style.
2
Xanne
Xanne
Strands #310
“Front women”
🔵🔵🟡🔵
🔵🔵🔵🔵
 
4 hours later…
Araucaria - Him
Araucaria - Him
13:18
@alphabet Yes, they're right about that. And it explains the data just as well, I think. "Whom" is vanishingly rare in interrogatives unless they have a pied-piped preposition. When did you last hear someone ask "Whom is she?", for example. (So you could still write an answer there!)
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
13:41
user image
Yolklahoma
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@Robusto Didn't miss my connection today, the flights were on time
Connections
Puzzle #576
🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟪🟦🟪🟦
🟦🟪🟪🟦
🟪🟪🟦🟦
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟪🟪🟪🟪
@Mitch So "punch something in" (phrasal transitive verb) in the mid 1960s must have meant "to put information into a computer by pressing the keys". Is it possible that since punch cards were still used, the other meaning was analogously borrowed from entering info into computers via punch cards input method?
Or I am guilty of making my own etymology like Gus did in My Big Fat Greek Wedding? We just saw My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2 and was shown how his grandsons (still at primary school) are already adept in doing what their grandpa did, making him proud :-).
MetaEd
MetaEd
14:19
Wordle 1,298 4/6

🟩⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟨⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟨⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Strands #310
“Front women”
🟡🔵🔵🔵
🔵🔵🔵🔵
Connections
Puzzle #576
🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟩🟪🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟪🟪🟪🟪
Robusto
Robusto
14:44
#WhenTaken #315 (07.01.2025)

I scored 839/1000🏅

1️⃣📍1.2K km - 🗓️5 yrs - 🥈161/200
2️⃣📍634 km - 🗓️10 yrs - 🥈166/200
3️⃣📍1.5 km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥇197/200
4️⃣📍647 km - 🗓️14 yrs - 🥈154/200
5️⃣📍1.3K km - 🗓️2 yrs - 🥈161/200

https://whentaken.com
tchrist
tchrist
@Araucaria-Him While interrogative whom is comparatively rare, Whom is she calling? seems unimpeachable syntactically albeït perhaps not socially.
That hearkens back to my comment yesterday.
@Araucaria-Him Consider: I've been getting strange looks from Jeremy lately. Wasn't it him you called that night? Surely this is unremarkable, no? No one would say he there anymore, right? So given how awful he sounds there, I wonder why people would hesitate to use whom instead of him in the corresponding response of Yes, that's whom I called that night. Puzzling. — tchrist ♦ 12 hours ago
I don't think one word can do double duty. Whenever I find an example where people are saying this is happening, they've misanalysed the underlying syntactic constituents, usually by assuming that a single word is somehow part of two constituents when in fact it's merely that that word is part of the second constituent, and it is the second constituent (rather than its first word) that has a syntactic relationship with the first constituent.
> Give it to whoever wants it.
Give it to whomever you see.
He is the person who is going.
That is who is going.
He is who is going.
He is the person they named.
He is the person whom they named.
He is whom they named.
That is whom they named.
> They thought he was going.
That is whom they sent.
That is who they thought was going.
You are not allowed to have one word be part of two distinct constituents. That won't work.
> To whoever wants this, I wish you the best of luck!
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
15:17
@tchrist Sounds like a data modeling exercise to come up with the best normalized table relationships for a relational database like Oracle, where it's hard to find a "pure" schema that works for all real-world usage.
jlliagre
jlliagre
15:32
#WhenTaken #315 (07.01.2025)

I scored 910/1000👑

1️⃣📍744 km - 🗓️10 yrs - 🥈163/200
2️⃣📍1.6 km - 🗓️4 yrs - 🥇196/200
3️⃣📍2.7 km - 🗓️0 yrs - 🥇200/200
4️⃣📍410 km - 🗓️7 yrs - 🥇178/200
5️⃣📍789 km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥈173/200

https://whentaken.com
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
15:45
@tchrist But the formulaic "To whom it may concern" where sometimes I see "," or ":" right after, implying that the first sentence continues that phrase, is still acceptable, right? Example:
> To whom it may concern,
> (blank line)
> Please accept this letter as notification that ....
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (94): Between the words "throw up," "vomit," and "puke," is there a difference in connotations of how gross each word is?‭ by TheTecheez‭ on english.SE
Robusto
Robusto
Wordle 1,298 4/6

⬛⬛🟨⬛🟨
🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩⬛⬛🟨🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Mitch
Mitch
@GratefulDisciple I'm pretty sure that when punch cards were all the rage, the consoles that one used to type in letters to transfer to a card were very mechanical, in that your action of pressing a key had a direct physical connection (by little levers) to the metal arm that 'punched' out the little chads from the card. So the metaphor of punching = hitting with the fist, transferred to the action of using a metal tool to punch out a hole in paper or cloth, which then transferred to pressing a key...
Robusto
Robusto
Connections
Puzzle #576
🟨🟨🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟦🟦🟦🟦
🟪🟪🟪🟪
Mitch
Mitch
... or button that did the action for you. Also many machines (not involved with punch cards) had buttons that were very mechanical and needed weight to press them down which metaphorically might be called punching. ie before punch cards for computers were so popular (punch cards invented in late 1800's) there were typewriters (invented mid 1800's) where you might call it 'punching' the key)
There was also teletype (with a keyboard entry) which was also popular in the early/mid 1900's. punch cards were limited to computers.
@M.A.R. That's an old linguistics observation... most deep interesting linguistics theories work really really well on lesser known languages.
Robusto
Robusto
16:09
@Mitch This was, in fact, the case.
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@Mitch It's quite interesting that there appeared to be two different streams over the same time period (since 1870s): punch card console and typewriters, resulting in "punch" and "type" verbs respectively (with teletype was a much later invention). Before the like of DOS word processors like WordStar or WordPerfect, I also learned typing using my mom's mechanical typewriter similar to Underwood Typewriter. And later I tried (forgot where) the famous IBM Selectric typewriters (with a ball).
It's like the transition between a car without power steering to the now ubiquitous power steering! Like the transition between tracker organ to Electro-pneumatic action organ console, the verb doesn't change: "play" (not "punch" / "type"). So the decreasing force doesn't appear to change the verb, with the exception of virtual keyboard on a smartphone where we say "tap".
Robusto
Robusto
Strands #310
“Front women”
🔵🔵🔵🔵
🔵🟡🔵🔵
Daily Octordle #1079
9️⃣7️⃣
🔟5️⃣
4️⃣🕛
6️⃣🟥
Score: 67
Daily Sequence Octordle #1079
5️⃣6️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
🕐⓮
Score: 80
Not my best day for Octordle
CowperKettle
CowperKettle
@GratefulDisciple I only tried out typing on a typewriter a couple times at mom's and dad's workplaces. People were not allwed to have typewriters at home easily. Each typewriter was registered and its specific typing style was recorded, in case you would like to spread some forbidden literature.
I never saw typewriters being sold in the USSR.
Mom was allowed to take a huge electric calculator, the size of a laptop but heavier, to our home to do some calculations, but never a typewriter
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
16:25
@CowperKettle Yeah, not surprising. I also heard that in wartime the government (at least the Japanese in Indonesia during WW2) placed sealed locks on the radio tuning dial as well. It testifies to the power of information and ideas.
@Mitch But I seem to be wrong about the parallel development between "punch" and "type". If much older typewriters' instruction manual says "punch" I wonder how exactly the verb turned to "type" for later models that don't require much force.
Robusto
Robusto
Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Jan. 7, 2025

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ 💔 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 1700
Robusto
Robusto
16:56
> "It's amazing how well our democracy can work ... when you don't act like a little bitch when you lose" (Jon Stewart on the certification of election results presided over by Kamala Harris)
Mitch
Mitch
@GratefulDisciple It's all a bit vague to use NGrams to research. Or if it is in fact not vague, it is beyond my confusion/nebulosity horizon (the horizon within which everything is a blooming buzzing confusion and outside there is clear light that illuminate everything so you can see what is exactly what.
It's still on my (vague, non-actionable, nice-to-have) todo list to do the actual p research on that ELU question about the grammatical transition from 'to make' to 'to have' as a sign of the protestant work ethic (or something like that). I mean to show that it is not the case. It may well be the case but it seems far fetched to me (even though it is a plausible metaphor).
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@Mitch Just to cloud your horizon further, consider the 1855 Italian prototype the maker called Cembalo scrivano o macchina da scrivere a tasti ("Scribe harpsichord, or machine for writing with keys"), in the history section called "From 1829 to 1870, many printing or typing machines were patented by inventors in Europe and America, but none went into commercial production."
Mitch
Mitch
oh duh the idea of a keyboard goes back to the musical instruments. Is the organ the oldest one? How old is the oldest musical instrument with a keyboard?
GratefulDisciple
GratefulDisciple
@Mitch From the shreds I remember of music history, that honor definitely belonged to the pipe organ, which according to Wikipedia, went back to Ancient Greece in the 3rd century BC. So we may want to know the Greek word for the keys, which Gus probably knows :-).
@Mitch That sounds quite interesting. Yes, I also have a long list of "non-actionable nice-to-have todo list" of my own for Christianity.SE, that if I go there I probably cannot finish any of the more important things I want to do for 2025. It's a source of temptation for me. With that said, I need to go back to work :-).
Mitch
Mitch
17:13
5
Q: Is Erich Fromm's claim that the extended use of "have" corresponds to the rise of the market economy and Protestantism accurate?

user488608In the book To Have or to Be Erich Fromm claims using "have" in English increased due to the rise of the market economy and Protestantism. Where one is alone in the market, with their personal relationship to God, rather than being part of a feudal economy and church where they are taken care of....

word-choice word-usage verbs historical-change
basically an attempt at a connection between social trends and grammar, sounds plausible in a 'this is an obvious pattern' kind of way but very woo-woo sounding (like there's so much going on that there's no way there could be a cause and effect.
@GratefulDisciple In Greek, if you translate back to English, the word is...punch.
hahahhah
tchrist
tchrist
17:52
@GratefulDisciple Yes, and correct, no less, because it's all about whom it concerns. The human agent is the direct object, as in This concerns him. Although particularly with a dummy-it subject there is a dual possible interpretation because some people could read that as saying that he's worried about this while others could read it as saying that this is about him.
English is no longer very strong on its former datives of interest etc.
> 1970 My only query for now concerns Ray Price, Nixon's speechwriter. Is he still there? —H. S. Thompson, Letter 9 July in Fear & Loathing in America (2000) 317
> 2008 Better get out of here, my friend, this doesn't concern you. — A. Furst, Spies of Warsaw (2009) 111
vs
> 1970 This report concerns me deeply. —Irish Times 5 October 9/3
2004 The Bush camp is concerned by the lurking presence of a series of well-funded outside groups. —U.S. News & World Report 12 April 273
The first pair are from these two senses:

I.1.a. c1400– transitive. To refer or relate to; to be about. Cf. as concerns at Phrases P.2b. With complementary uses of concerning cf. concerning prep. 2.

I.3.a. a1475– transitive. To be of importance to; to be the concern or business of; to involve; to affect.
The second pair are this sense:
> I.4.a. c1592– transitive. To cause (a person) anxiety or worry; to trouble. Chiefly in passive: to be anxious, worried, or troubled by something.
> < (i) Anglo-Norman and Middle French, French concerner, Middle French conserner to refer or relate to (something) (1385),
and its etymon (ii) post-classical Latin concernere to mix, mingle (things) together (c400 in Augustine), to observe (things) together (4th or 5th cent. in Jerome), to observe, regard, consider (frequently from 13th cent. in British sources; from c1300 in continental sources), to relate to, to affect, involve (frequently from 13th cent. in British sources; from 14th cent. in continental sources) < classical Latin con- con- prefix + cernere cern v.1
blames Augustine of Hippo
 
1 hour later…
MetaEd
MetaEd
19:24
"If a man loses his reverence for any part of life, he will lose his reverence for all of life." ---Albert Schweitzer
M.A.R.
M.A.R.
19:58
@MetaEd that doesn't make any sense
@Mitch well I'm just jealous because they could have chosen Turkish. Or Farsi.
 
1 hour later…
Xanne
Xanne
21:04
@Mitch Let’s see, God made Eve, and men have been making women, as well as having them, for a good long time. But consider the Renaissance, characterized by people having ideas. I think an interesting paper might be “Expressions of hostility to capitalism among Western intellectuals as revealed in research topics.”
Xanne
Xanne
21:53
Thorsten Veblen would fit.
Robusto
Robusto
> No one travelling on a business trip would be missed if he failed to arrive.
> The possession of wealth confers honor; it is an invidious distinction.
> Labor wants pride and joy in doing good work, a sense of making or doing something beautiful or useful - to be treated with dignity and respect as brother and sister.
All of the above are quotes by Thorstein Veblen.
> A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
—Alexander Pope
Feb 11, 2021 at 1:55, by Robusto
My grandfather was a coal miner, died in a mine accident, and is buried in the same cemetery as Mother Jones. How's that for ironic?
So to hell with arch-capitalists and plutocracies.
Mar 25, 2020 at 14:33, by Robusto
"Eat the rich!" I say.
Mother Jones
Mary G. Harris Jones (1837 (baptized) – November 30, 1930), known as Mother Jones from 1897 onward, was an Irish-born American labor organizer, former schoolteacher, and dressmaker who became a prominent union organizer, community organizer, and activist. She helped coordinate major strikes, secure bans on child labor, and co-founded the Labor unionist trade union, the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW). After Jones's husband and four children all died of yellow fever in 1867 and her dress shop was destroyed in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, she became an organizer for the Knights of Labor...
Mitch
Mitch
22:47
@Robusto Geez man I just was asking what time it was
tchrist
tchrist
@Xanne There's just a few more where that came from. :) — tchrist ♦ 41 mins ago
NB: That's public access.
Apparently we aren't supposed to say spew around polite company anymore. Who knew?
> spew Old English– intransitive. To bring up and discharge the contents of the stomach through the mouth; to vomit. Not now in polite use.
Robusto
Robusto
@Mitch Keep the change.
tchrist
tchrist
That's not the logorrhea version of spewing.

« first day (5171 days earlier)      last day (45 days later) »