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21:00
That's not a very scholarly term.
And it is no -kunde.
@Cerberus poly <-> wis?
mathematics?
@Mitch Noo.
You know what poly means.
@Mitch Ding!
wow I thought 'math' meant something else.
@Mitch It is a weird word, isn't it, mathematics?
yes.
21:01
What did you think it meant?
Very weird
I'm sure I looked it up long ago... there aren't any cognates that pop into mind.
Of math?
yes
Hmm.
Probably Prometheus, at least by folk etymology.
21:03
@Cerberus nice
that sounds very plausible.
for volk.
The idea is what he knew things beforehand, while his brother(?) Epimetheus knew them only after making a mistake.
In Greek mythology, Epimetheus (; Ancient Greek: Ἐπιμηθεύς, lit. 'afterthought') is the brother of Prometheus, the pair serving "as representatives of mankind". Both sons of the Titan Iapetus, while Prometheus ("foresight") is ingeniously clever, Epimetheus ("hindsight") is inept and foolish. In some accounts of the myth, Epimetheus unleashes the unforeseen troubles in Pandora's box. == Mythology == According to Plato's use of the old myth in his Protagoras (320d–322a), the two Titan brothers were entrusted with distributing the traits among the newly created animals. Epimetheus was responsible...
ok back to evenaar... -aar is agentive... so it is a 'even'-doer.
Correct!
Now Latin.
oh.
uh...
equator?
And the funny thing is that it should be a person in English and it Dutch, but isn't.
@Mitch Ding!
21:05
ok semantically not where my mind was going.
Understandable.
epimetheustically.
Good enough.
Now only driehoek en hoek van inval.
OK now hoek van inval... it's a hook of not 'val'
You need to know hoek.
Hook is cognate indeed.
21:06
oh, I need to know hook in latin?
@Mitch There are two in's in Indo-European.
cripes.
I ain't no italian fisherman?
@Mitch Yes, but it is not the kind of hook you're thinking of.
This 'hook' is not physical.
@Mitch Now you are getting close.
What's a fisherman?
In English.
@Cerberus but.. but.. the one I'm thinking of is the one I'm thinking of. How can it be any different?
You will get there.
21:08
@Cerberus fisherman, naturally.
Or?
Latinate.
piscator in latin?
English word.
uh...
fisher?
@Cerberus oh.
probably means 'in' then.
But Latinate.
This is a hint.
21:10
is 'v' voiced or unvoiced in Dutch?
@Cerberus oh...angler.
@Mitch Yes.
@Mitch Yes.
@Mitch Officially voiced. In practice, semi-unvoiced in standard Dutch (depending on the word/position?), fully unvoiced (f) in lower-class Dutch in the regions of Old Frisia.
wait, so how did angling get... is that cognate with 'angle'? is this another math one?
@Mitch Yes!
Triangle!
@jlliagre Correct!
That is driehoek.
In German, Dreieck.
> hoek van inval
21:13
@Cerberus interior angle?
@jlliagre nice
@Mitch Not quite.
Val needs to be translated into Latin.
@Mitch You did the hard part.
Also called invalshoek.
Bermuda triangle.
@Cerberus I think of 'val' as already latinate.
21:15
;-)
@jlliagre I have no idea what I'm doing.
@Mitch But that is entirely unrelated.
@Cerberus Yes. I suppose I'll find out.
@jlliagre Wellll quite literally, invalshoek could have means Bermuda Triangle! But that's not what it is.
What could val be?
full?
21:16
All the stuff I posted is Germanic.
@jlliagre Nope, that is vol.
Or vul-.
@Cerberus who knows with vowels
cripes.
I will give a few words with v: vullen, vals, vader.
well, its'a geometry term
Do you know what these are in English, and do you see a pattern?
@Cerberus to... turn?
No, I don't know what any of those are in English
21:18
These are three unrelated words, just to teach you the sound change between English and Dutch.
fall, ..., father?
@Mitch Can you guess?
OK... thinking...
@Arfrever Father is correct.
Fall is close, but the s?
to fill, ???, father.
21:19
Correct.
fall?
Vals is not Germanic btw, but Dutch still wanted a v there.
So you see the pattern?
@Mitch What does fall correspond to in Dutch?
v->f
Yes.
no math word's in Englosh seem right though.
21:21
Infall?
falling angle?
descending angle?
@jlliagre This would be a good translation from Dutch into English.
However, remember that all of these words are Germanic in Dutch but must be translated into Latin to get the corresponding term in English.
> hoek van inval
What is val in Latin?
From Latin falsus? (Similar to English false)
This reminds me of when I was in 3rd grade (~8 years old) and I heard the story of how Archimedes discovered the principle of buoyancy and shouted 'Eureka', and I claimed after that moment that I could count Greek as one of the languages I knew.
@Arfrever Yes, vals is false, from falsus! So that was about the pattern. Here we have val, which is English fall.
@Mitch You might still be understood by modern Greeks!
I think.
21:25
@Cerberus For that one very very particular situation.
Which, to be honest, may actually occur.
It's happened before so...
When you have your bath.
So what is Dutch val translated into Latin...
I was thining I'd prefer a shower, but I'm sure I could fit the word in there somewhere.
What is falling in Latin?
I think that Modern Greek is about as different from Ancient Greek, as Italian from Latin.
@Cerberus descent?
tombere?
21:27
@Arfrever Kind of, though I think the spelling is closer.
@Mitch Not quite.
Protecting against falling triangles
@Mitch Maybe in Vulgar Latin.
@jlliagre They're very sharp.
Do you know any German?
@Cerberus You know how I am.
21:28
@Mitch Scary.
@Mitch Racy.
@Cerberus haha no more like poop jokes.
OK OK no German, then.
You really need to find out what the root for fall is in Latin to proceed.
@Cerberus Dingue.
@Cerberus I'm sure I know this or knew this at some point, it's so basic...
c...
cadere, succidere?
21:30
Yes!
@Arfrever Correct!
cad-.
I'm doing the crossword puzzle strategy of trying every letter.
Of course the vowel will change when you add a praefix.
What was the praefix here?
incident angle?
@Arfrever And, yes, -cid- is how the vowel changes.
@Mitch Ding!
@Cerberus via French?
oh no
21:32
You got it!
I know about Old Latin vowel reduction...
Is it incident angle, or angle of incidence?
@Cerberus I don't know what an incident angle is, except maybe the angle a tangent makes with a curve.
@Cerberus Woohoo! Teamwork!
In optics, the angle between the incoming light ray and the 'normal' line.
oh...so optics.
21:33
And the uitvalshoek is...
Snell's law and such
Yes.
@Cerberus excident angle?
that's not a thing.
or word rather.
Accident angle :-)
occident angle.
they're disoriented.
21:34
Hah.
hah
Hold on, maybe this is not official Dutch.
We learn "hoek van inval = hoek van uitval".
But officially the latter will be the hoek van terugkaatsing, probably.
Angle réfléchi.
Reflected.
I'm having trouble with 'terugkaatsing'.
@jlliagre Exactly.
Kaatsen is what a billiards ball does when it hits the band/side.
21:37
@Cerberus bounces off?
but yeah 'reflects' might work though that's not how you say it in English.
hm...maybe you -do- say 'reflects'?
@Mitch Yes.
I don't know I just hit the ball with the cue and if the ball goes in, I get to go again.
And terug = zurück = back.
@Cerberus got it.
So the angle of back-bouncing.
21:39
German is kind of messed up.
Refraction or reflexion, probably?
I mean all languages are messed up in their own way.
@Mitch We call its script broken, literally.
This sounds like the beginning of a Russian novel...
about happy languages and unhappy languages
Fraktur (German: [fʁakˈtuːɐ̯] ) is a calligraphic hand of the Latin alphabet and any of several blackletter typefaces derived from this hand. It is designed such that the beginnings and ends of the individual strokes that make up each letter will be clearly visible, and often emphasized; in this way it is often contrasted with the curves of the Antiqua (common) typefaces where the letters are designed to flow and strokes connect together in a continuous fashion. The word "Fraktur" derives from Latin frāctūra ("a break"), built from frāctus, passive participle of frangere ("to break"), which is...
Fractured it is, Gothic letters.
21:40
haha, but yeah, German has a bunch of extra sound changes that the rest of Germanic languages don't have. Very annoying.
I know I can't really complain. The English Great Vowel shift is like only one vowel shift out of many for English.
@Cerberus They just had to be different.
wait...was that just the font style that Gutenberg made?
@Mitch Exactly, English vowels are the worst!
@Mitch Something like it was used in manuscript long before.
@Cerberus Oh.
Like what became 'italic' font was the font used by Italian monks?
Or just the standard script as opposed to Gothic/broken?
Latin short vowels in non-initial syllables and diphthongs were also heavily corrupted.
I'm not sure about all the developments or nomenclature.
21:45
Latin is a member of the broad family of Italic languages. Its alphabet, the Latin alphabet, emerged from the Old Italic alphabets, which in turn were derived from the Etruscan, Greek and Phoenician scripts. Historical Latin came from the prehistoric language of the Latium region, specifically around the River Tiber, where Roman civilization first developed. How and when Latin came to be spoken has long been debated. Various influences on Latin of Celtic speeches in northern Italy, the non-Indo-European Etruscan language in Central Italy, and the Greek in some Greek colonies of southern Italy have...
OK that was superfun but my brain is tired. I need to rest it up by solving some 2nd degree Groebner basis reductions to cimpute the monodromy group cohomolgies for a toriodal topological space.
@Arfrever Corrupted between when and when?
Yes, Latin also changed vowels.
Who didn't?
@Mitch Happy topologising.
Between e.g. Duenos inscription and Classical Latin.
@Cerberus 🫡
@Arfrever Lots of complex stuff happening, no doubt.
Also the rooting-out of dialectical vowels, except a few.
Like moenia v. murus.
But I'm sure -os → -us also happened around that time?
22:33
@Arfrever I’ve always wondered whether all those inflections were part of the spoken language, or just scholarly or bureaucratic shorthand to shorten the text.
@Xanne What do you mean exactly?
23:31
Exactly? Precisely?
Never mind.
It seems many people have a negative reaction to Elon Musk. Why would that be?
However the basic idea is that the spoken language is a lot less inflected than the written.
23:49
Here's to the state of Mississippi
French of the day: Pet-en-guele
== Français == === Étymologie === Étymologie manquante ou incomplète. Si vous la connaissez, vous pouvez l’ajouter en cliquant ici. === Nom commun === pet-en-gueule \pɛ.t‿ɑ̃.ɡœl\ féminin (Jeux) Ancien divertissement de cour de récréation, se jouant à 4. Un joueur tient l'autre par les pieds, la tête en bas, deux autres se tiennent derrière le premier, à quatre pattes, les deux premiers doivent rouler sur les deux autres de manière se retrouver dans la position inverse, celui qui avait la tête en bas se retrouve tenant l'autre. Ainsi nommé, parce que le derrière de celui qui est porté ...
@Xanne What do you think?
@CowperKettle Sounds like a fun idea.

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