English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

01:03

Connections
Puzzle #566
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Blue was too American.

And purple you could only see if the others had been all aliminated.

Robusto

@Cerberus Blue required an intimate knowledge of English, not necessarily American.

Cerberus

Some of those are American expressions.

Robusto

Name one.

Look, I know you like to dump on America whenever you can, and a lot of time it deserves that, but Bugler, Africa, Unicorn and Car are universally understood in Mother English.

Cerberus

Oh, that's yesterday's game.

I was about to spoil your game!

Robusto

It's today's game where I live!

Cerberus

01:08

But do you live in the real world?

Robusto

And what are you still doing up?

Cerberus

Incidentally, the car thing does sound quite American to me.

I could be wrong.

Robusto

From Collins English Dictionary car 1. (Automotive Engineering) a. Also called: motorcar or automobile a self-propelled road vehicle designed to carry passengers, esp one with four wheels that is powered by an internal-combustion engine

Cerberus

No, no.

The other thing.

Which I cannot name.

Robusto

OH

Cerberus

01:23

youtube.com/shorts/x8LZSiK_O3o

Incidentally.

Part 2:

youtube.com/shorts/MndxkGfvZeY

Robusto

I take it you've never been to the US.

Cerberus

Why would you say that?

Robusto

I guess you haven't seen the images you just posted?

Cerberus

01:46

I asked a question.

Vikas

@M.A.R. I find it easy to sleep after that.

Mitch

@Cerberus I mean not -everybody- is like that.

Cerberus

@Mitch But almost everybody, right.

Mitch

There are a few weirdos that don't have flags for clothes

Robusto

@Mitch We call them Communists.

Mitch

01:55

But all that Bible reading makes everybody very literate

And very good at bar trivia which is all like 'who was born first, Esau or ... the other one.

Robusto

@Mitch Verily one doth say unto thee, thou hast not yet appeared on Jeopardy.

Cerberus

@Mitch Those must be Amish or worse.

Mitch

Worse.

The Amish are OK.

Mostly

Except for that one guy

That dude is really uncool.

Robusto

Except during 'Rumspringa.

Mitch

Jacob? It's Jacob, right?

Robusto

02:02

They're all named Jacob.

Except the women.

Most of the women.

Mitch

Thankfully.

Robusto

02:18

> Rest assured, actual plot and tension eventually work their way into the movie. (We gradually learn that Hirayama’s life is far from just zen, and that there are people who do want to engage with him.)
However, at its core, Perfect Days remains a refreshingly small movie about practically nothing, one that raises some very big questions: How are we to find meaning in everyday life? How do we square fear of the unknown with our knowledge that everything will change? For that matter, how much are we supposed to worry about the above truths versus simply waking up each day and living? Some o…

alphabet

@Mitch Of course every true patriot knows that the Flag Code explicitly forbids that.

@Cerberus ...you do realize that those videos are by an American mocking Europeans' crude stereotypes of Americans, right?

Cerberus

@alphabet How can you even ask that?

I know Americans are not very sensitive to irony, but it is even in the title.

youtube.com/shorts/N_MNi-KLtBg

Maybe this was supposed to be part 1.

alphabet

02:35

@Cerberus You seemed to be using it as a source of information.

Cerberus

Why would you think that?

That is pretty insane, sorry.

Robusto

Look up "kidding on the square".

Cerberus

Why would I?

Robusto

It describes what you are doing.

alphabet

@Cerberus You don't seem to have gotten the video's point, is all I'm saying.

Cerberus

02:41

This entire time, you are not talking straight but speaking in riddles.

I am not in a mood to solve riddles, if you want to say something, be clear about it.

@alphabet Be explicit.

Robusto

I said it clearly. I told you what you are doing and gave you a reference to that. But if you refuse to google it, let me spell it out for you: "kidding on the square" is making what appears to be a joke but actually meaning a critical assessment ...

alphabet

@Cerberus Sorry, but I'm not sensitive to irony enough to avoid it.

Cerberus

@Robusto No idea who you are talking to or what your point is.

@alphabet I don't follow.

Robusto

@Cerberus Now you're just being willful.

Cerberus

You are being impolite.

If someone asks for clarification and you refuse to be explicit.

I will continue making meringues now.

Robusto

02:49

I was being explicit.

5 mins ago, by Robusto

I said it clearly. I told you what you are doing and gave you a reference to that. But if you refuse to google it, let me spell it out for you: "kidding on the square" is making what appears to be a joke but actually meaning a critical assessment ...

But never mind, this game isn't worth the candle.

Cerberus

I don't know what you are referring to, I see no plain statement with clear references.

I was hoping you'd enjoy the video.

alphabet

A good sentence is like a trash can: containing much of value that only us wisest of mammals can locate and extract.

Cerberus

And it is pretty obvious whom the video really mocks.

Robusto

21 mins ago, by Cerberus

I know Americans are not very sensitive to irony, but it is even in the title.

That's you, day in, day out.

It gets a bit tiring, frankly.

alphabet

Full of bountiful layers of meaning, like discarded weeks-old baklava.

Mitch

02:56

@alphabet if you look at the subsections in that code, you'll notice that flag use is forbidden only in the seat and crotch of pants or dresses, or the breast area for women. So you can wear a flag -and- expose- yourself.

It's another reason why America is great.

Flag clothes with air conditioning.

alphabet

@Mitch So perfect for my assless crotchless fursuit?

Mitch

@Robusto wait...we could have won candles in that game?

Can we start over? If I knew I could win something I would have taken it seriously.

@alphabet also breast less.

Men cover yourself, women avert your eyes.

alphabet

@Mitch I'm sure "full compliance with the United States Flag Code" is the first thing people look for when shopping for fursuits.

Mitch

@alphabet stale baklava. Just as bad for your diabetes as fresh

alphabet

@Mitch Remember: anything that gives you immediate food poisoning has zero calories. Quite possibly negative.

Mitch

03:02

@alphabet I think the fursuit would be good for winter. And if it were US flag colored, it'd be highly visible in case of an avalanche

I'm always thing of safety

@alphabet quick way to lose weight

alphabet

@Mitch My other product idea is a backpack-sized self-contained fursuit HVAC system.

Mitch

But to be clear honey is antibacterial.

Or does it encourage botulism toxin production?

I can't remember

alphabet

Didn't someone once propose eating tapeworms as a weight-loss strategy?

Mitch

Mark Twain.

2

He also slept backwards, so consider that when judging his advice

alphabet

He also, in the words of Yogi Berra, didn't really say all the things he said.

Mitch

03:05

@alphabet so you're proposing a Fremen still suit but with fur? You know for the shade?

alphabet

Fursuits must be really hot.

(Please clap for that lazy and somewhat confusing double entendre.)

Cerberus

03:48

@Robusto In reply to an absurd message.

Vikas

@Mitch Slept backwards? Sleep on stomach?

Cerberus

@Vikas What do you think of this short video:

youtube.com/shorts/N_MNi-KLtBg

What genre is it?

Vikas

@Cerberus Genre I don't know. Comedy? What I think about Americans is totally opposite. I think they're very fit, healthy, hardworking and intelligent. BTW the video is funny.

Cerberus

@Vikas Exactly. And do you think the video is meant to be informative, to show people what real Americans are like?

Vikas

@Cerberus Doesn't look like informative. More like to entertain people. More like a meme.

Cerberus

03:55

@Vikas Exactly.

Do you think any sane person would interpret the video as being realistic?

Vikas

@Cerberus No.

Cerberus

@Vikas Agreed.

1 hour ago, by alphabet

@Cerberus You seemed to be using it as a source of information.

alphabet

Connections
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GratefulDisciple

04:29

@Cerberus The way you post questions to Vikas it sounds like you called him to testify as a witness in court, quite funny. To me, the video is obviously a satire, like an SNL skit though SNL is way funnier and more subtle. But there are morsels of truth in those 2 videos. Example: my Italian colleague who came to the USA for the first time, was truly amazed at the restaurant portion size, which is 3-4 times bigger than what he used to have.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple Yes, very obviously.

GratefulDisciple

Connections
Puzzle #565
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Cerberus

Both Robusto and Alphabet seemed to think that I believed it to be realistic (?) and not satire, which would be a very absurd thought; but, when I asked them to plainly state what their point was, they seemed to beat around the bush. I really don't get what they were thinking or trying to communicate.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus What Vikas said about Americans being "very fit, healthy, hardworking and intelligent" is true also. I guess the best explanation is that some states are VERY different than other states. There are 300+ million of us, ranging from barely literate to super educated and cultured. The people of the New England region is very different than the Midwestern people or the Southern people or the Californians.

M.A.R.

@Vikas uh, no, Americans aren't fit or healthy on average.

Unless you mean in the absolute sense. I suppose most people in any large population don't suffer from a chronic ailment

But some 80% of Americans have >25 BMI.

Cerberus

04:37

@GratefulDisciple The video is a mixture of extreme stereotypes and some kernels of truth, as all decent satire is.

M.A.R.

Some 45% have BMI > 30

Cerberus

@M.A.R. That is pretty high.

M.A.R.

Now, no shame in that, my BMI is also > 25

But I don't consider myself fit. Hard-working, definitely not. Intelligent, some of the time.

Cerberus

Haha.

I do think they are hard working.

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. Of course those that are "very fit and healthy" is now a small minority.

M.A.R.

04:43

@Cerberus I think being hard-working is a trait that skews right in most populations. So it's not exactly true for any population but we can think of plenty of examples, so it's uncommon to say people of X are lazy.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus This is one of the books I want to read: American Nations: A History of Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America, my evidence of how some states are very different than other states, and the lines of the regional cultures disregard the state boundaries, which is why Coastal Oregon is radically different than Mountainous Eastern Oregon, for example.

M.A.R.

I mean, if it has any correlation with education and money. And depending on how we categorize menial physical labor.

I think I'm over analyzing it

Cerberus

@M.A.R. What do you mean by "skews right"?

I kind of meant, hours worked per year.

@GratefulDisciple I will believe it.

M.A.R.

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. I don't think so. I think you barely just started. There are many factors to analyze. There is some truth of Protestant vs. Catholic influence too. Many who are "hardworking" maybe unconsciously holding what sociologists call the Protestant work ethic (following Weber).

M.A.R.

04:48

@GratefulDisciple yeah heard about that from the sociology mullah. Of course he phrased it as one side of ideological warfare instead of calling Protestants hard-working

BBL driving

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. Not surprising :-)

Cerberus

@M.A.R. It is a bit hard to parse in context.

@GratefulDisciple Yes, there is that.

There is also the East-Asian work ethic.

Vikas

@M.A.R. But that's better than poor countries.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Whether one agrees politically with J.D. Vance or not, and despite his book Hillbily Elegy has major issues from scholarly perspective, the book at least resonates with a neglected segment of Americans who have for decades feeling victimized by the political bureaucracy and certain cultural forces.

@Cerberus Yup, combined with the Confucian values that help maintain their family cohesion and predispose them to uphold law and order.

I heard in Netherlands, Geert Wilders has been increasingly popular for representing a frustrated segment of society too?

Getting late, time to sleep. Have a good weekend.

alphabet

05:09

@GratefulDisciple One case in which Americans definitely have the inverse stereotype of Europeans.

alphabet

05:27

@Cerberus Robusto and myself were criticizing you for seeming to defend a few of America that seems to extend fairly little beyond less extreme versions of those same stereotypes.

CowperKettle

@Mitch By the way, I found an audioversion of Twain's famous book on Jeanne D'arc

Mark Twain Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc Part 1 - FULL AudioBook

►

The Russian Wikipedia page about his book is large and has a featured status (a gold star)

Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc, by the Sieur Louis de Conte is an 1896 novel by Mark Twain which recounts the life of Joan of Arc. The novel is presented as a translation by "Jean Francois Alden" of memoirs by Sieur Louis de Conte, a fictionalized version of Joan of Arc's page Louis de Contes. He has the same initials as Samuel Langhorne Clemens, Mark Twain's real name. The novel is divided into three sections according to Joan of Arc's development: a youth in Domrémy, a commander of the army of Charles VII of France, and a defendant at trial in Rouen. They are entitled "In Domremy", "In...

> "Dear neighbors, please kill cockroaches!!!"

A sign I snapped in a flight of stairs in some apartment block

Vikas

06:10

> Image resolution of photos you share on Instagram
When you share a photo on Instagram, regardless of whether you're using Instagram for iPhone or Android, we make sure to upload it at the best quality resolution possible (up to a width of 1080 pixels).
When you share a photo that has a width between 320 and 1080 pixels, we keep that photo at its original resolution as long as the photo's aspect ratio is between 1.91:1 and 4:5 (a height between 566 and 1350 pixels with a width of 1080 pixels). If the aspect ratio of your photo isn't supported, it will be cropped to fit a supported ratio. I…

Does it mean if I upload an image with width more than 1080 pixels, it would be downscaled by Instagram? And would be a waste?

Cerberus

@Vikas Yes.

@GratefulDisciple Yes, right-wing populism.

@alphabet That is not what you said.

And, examples?

CowperKettle

MetaEd

06:27

Wordle 1,288 4/6

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CowperKettle

Very interesting drug, considering my consistently elevated cortisol and depression:

Emestedastat

Emestedastat (proposed brand name Xanamem; developmental code name UE-2343) is a steroidogenesis inhibitor which is under development for the treatment of major depressive disorder, Alzheimer's disease, and fragile X syndrome. It specifically acts as a centrally penetrant inhibitor of 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1 (11β-HSD1) and thereby inhibits the synthesis of the glucocorticoid steroid hormone cortisol. As of August 2024, emestedastat is in phase 2 clinical trials for major depressive disorder and Alzheimer's disease and is in the preclinical stage of development for fragile X syndrome...

But it's still under development.

It might also help in alcoholism, because I read that the same enzyme gets hyperactive in habitual drinkers.

MetaEd

Strands #300
“Just the essentials”
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🔵

Vikas

06:53

@M.A.R. is there any health concern if you drink water standing, rather than sit and drink?

Cerberus

You know people drink standing all the time, don't you?

Vikas

@Cerberus I know, I also drink.

Cerberus

What prompted your question?

Vikas

@Cerberus Lectures from some old people.

Cerberus

Such an odd superstition!

Vikas

07:02

@Cerberus You haven't heard the superstition yet.

> People also believe drinking water while standing can lead to knee pain or arthritis, as often advised by elders in our family.

So I'm curious.

alphabet

Surely, if the effect were substantial enough to be obvious, people in more countries would have noticed.

Cerberus

That is...oddly specific, and far removed from the digestive system.

alphabet

Apparently it's some sort of Ayurveda thing.

Vikas

> There are different schools of thought on this claim. Ayurveda says drinking water while standing affects the digestive system. The water enters the body with a great force and speed and falls in the stomach, several health reports have quoted Ayurveda experts. This disturbs the balance of fluids and causes indigestion. Ayurvedic experts say that the human body gets the benefits of water only when they drink it while sitting.

This is what Ayurveda experts say.

alphabet

"School of thought" might be too strong a word for Ayurveda.

CowperKettle

07:26

The vertical fall distance must be the same, if you sit with a straight back

Maybe it's better to drink water while in reclining position, or in space, because of the lack of gravity.

NASA's guidebook Ayurveda for Astronauts (AfA) can be consulted in this case.

Vikas

@CowperKettle Can sleep while in sleeping position. Horizontal speed would be slower.

CowperKettle

> “I got you an elephant for your room.”
“Thanks.”
“Don’t mention it.”

jlliagre

08:21

@Cerberus Finally, an accurate video about Unitedstatesians life! I'm looking forward to watch a similar one about French people. I'm sure it will be equally truthful ;-)

CowperKettle

08:38

Musical instrument of the day: Matryomin

Матремин -- японский музыкальный инструмент с русской душой

►

SmokeDetector

08:54

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user (163): Why Are Guns Called 'Biscuits' In America?‭ by Danger Problem‭ on english.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Blacklisted user (74): What is the name for the "strap wrapper thing" that is often used on the straps of bags to distribute weight more evenly on the shoulder?‭ by Danger Problem‭ on english.SE

M.A.R.

11:40

@Vikas not that I know of

Vikas

12:27

GPT / Copilot is pathetic. I said suggest 50 usernames with certain requirements. It generated. I said more. It generated. After a few more tries, it kept repeating old results. I said don't repeat. It said "they are completely new this time" and still repeated. After a few more repetitions, I can't use it as hourly limit expired.

Vikas

12:45

I made it in Blender.

CowperKettle

WOW

@Vikas Can one earn money through this?

@Vikas Thus far it's not true AI, it's a static network.

I"ve got totally normal ACTH and salivary midnight cortisol. So.. why is my urinary free cortisol elevated? It should not be. Maybe it's just from my anxiety. I wonder how to address this.

Shouldn't the salivary cortisol also increase from anxiety? I'm afraid endocrinologists would say nothing to this, and psychiatrists would not even care.

Vikas

@CowperKettle You can if you're talented and work regularly and most importantly have skills to earn money (which I don't have).

CowperKettle

@Vikas I wish I could concentrate attention even for a simple creation. I"ve spent hours today installing a front derailleur. I'm slow.

Vikas

@CowperKettle When I asked "generate usernames with 10 characters", it mixed 10 and 11 character words. And didn't improve even when I told it.

CowperKettle

My friend put on the Old Man Frost costume for today's ParkRun

I only put on a long red hat with its top reaching almost to my waist

Волонтёр means volunteer in Russian

Mitch

13:06

@Vikas I consider that it is able to get close to 10 very amazing/impressive/astounding.

That LLMs can put words together that make even the slightest sense is a huge amount of tech progress.

Vikas

@Mitch I asked for real words only.

Mitch

But yes, there are a lot of problems with it. You can't rely on it like you could with a program that searches a dictionary and selects words with exactly 10 letters.

Vikas

@Mitch Yes but it's pathetic. How can it be so hard for it to just count letters before posting.

Mitch

LLMs are not taking program specs and converting them into programs. They're just extending one set of words probabilistically.

@Vikas well, that's exactly it, it's not doing a strict counting.

Just because you say 'give me 10 letter words' doesn't mean it is going to take your sequence of letters as a command to search a dictionary and count the letters in each word and return those with exactly 10.

It sees 'give me X' and those two words are often followed by a description and a set of words that are described by the description.

And '10 letters long' is often associated in the training text with words that have ten letters (but the training text doesn't often mention the length of the word so the association isn't that strong and will get it close but not exactly a lot.

jlliagre

@Vikas Think of LLMs as brains with an "IQ" close or equal to zero (i.e. unable to any sensible reasoning) but with an almost infinite memory.

Mitch

13:20

@Vikas as to pathetic, yes, if you asked this of a person, they'd at least be able to count the letters exactly, and also know not to repeat. But the statistical associations of words won't be able to satisfy that exactly. Most likely they'll be distinct because most sequences of words are distinct, but the LLM is not checking for that.

Vikas

Before these GPT/Copilot/Gemini keep telling each other "I'm better" they need to fix it because it's common in all of them.

Mitch

@Vikas well ..yeah...there's been so much investment in all of them that they have to try to one up each other to make more profit than the other.

jlliagre

@Vikas Ranking idiots works too :-)

Mitch

@jlliagre actually that's not far off from one step of the technology.

CowperKettle

13:58

Dec 25, 2022 at 16:07, by Robusto

@CowperKettle Is волонтёр Russian for volunteer?

CowperKettle

15:07

Shockaholic

Shockaholic is a 2011 book by Carrie Fisher. == Reception == The Guardian's Peter Conrad said, "Carrie Fisher's wisecracks and waspish rants fail to mask her Hollywood self-regard." Martin Chilton of The Daily Telegraph said the book is "funny in patches but lacks overall the jaunty warmth that Fisher brings to her performances. Still, it does contain wisdom for a modern, mad world". Will Durst of the San Francisco Chronicle wrote, "Fisher's wordplay is wicked, relentless and as playful as a bouncy house full of polar bear cubs." The A.V. Club's Tasha Robinson wrote, "Shockaholic is often funny...

Turns out this actress who played Princess Leia received electric shock therapy

Robusto

15:24

#travle #745 +0 (Perfect)
✅✅✅✅
https://travle.earth

CowperKettle

15:38

I talked over a video-link with my long-term Internet friend. And basically we chatted fine. But I wonder how she instantly switched to giving a biology lesson over a video link to her pupils (after our talk), while I feel too anxiety-ridden to attempt teaching English or Russian. I mean, over a live chat, I can maintain a talk. Once I'm on my own, I do nothing and feel anxiety and a kind of rumination over the fact. I wonder if psychotherapy can ever address this.

Robusto

#WhenTaken #305 (28.12.2024)

I scored 754/1000🏅

1️⃣📍29.7 m - 🗓️4 yrs - 🥇196/200
2️⃣📍513 km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥇182/200
3️⃣📍446 km - 🗓️32 yrs - 🥉93/200
4️⃣📍2.0K km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥈148/200
5️⃣📍3.0K km - 🗓️5 yrs - 🥈135/200

https://whentaken.com

CowperKettle

I wonder if there's a way to somehow train myself into forcing myself to give some English lessons. To train myself into some mode of thinking that would allow me, now and then, pefrorm the sequence of actions (finding a pupil, organizing a meeting, etc) necessary for a lesson, even if this lesson fails. And attempting again. Instead of just avoiding human contact and feeling anxiety at the mere thought.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Yes, but I agree with @alphabet here that I wouldn't call those 2 videos "decent satire". They are very badly done: unrepresentative, not funny (to us), and not in good taste.

Compare to these movies: Borat, King Ralph, Coming to America or Gung Ho, movies that combine good humor and satire that pricks a needle to American self-image, making them much more informative to foreigners.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple I think it's pretty clear that those videos are intended to mock Europeans, not Americans.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet You mean to mock Europeans's sterotype of Americans?

Robusto

15:49

Wordle 1,288 4/6

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alphabet

@GratefulDisciple Yes, or for just generally being ignorant about America as it actually is.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet I'll buy that.

@alphabet BTW I don't quite follow you here. Care to elaborate?

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple I just mean that the usual American stereotype of Europeans is generally that they are...not hard-working.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet I see. When they clock out, they DO clock out. And they are protected by labor laws. I actually experience this with our Italian colleagues. In a sense, I like their work-life balance, but it can be frustrating when there's a truly urgent thing needing attention, or the bureaucracy I have to get through to get things done.

CowperKettle

I wonder if there are 12-hour shifts in the USA at such companies as Amazon, for instance for warehouse workers. There are here.

GratefulDisciple

15:58

@CowperKettle Definitely, especially in hospitals.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple But are you sure you got the point of the satire?

It mocks Europeans for having wildly exaggerated ideas about what Americans are like.

CowperKettle

I once took a 12-hour shift on bicycle, delivering food. Physically it was okay for me, but mentally it was very tiring. I think that for me, 10 hours is the top limit for delivering food on a bicycle.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Here we go (I'm your second witness). I do, but I still say it's a very bad satire, so it's like a satire on a satire :-).

Cerberus

@jlliagre I'm pretty sure those exist!

Robusto

Connections
Puzzle #566
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GratefulDisciple

16:01

@CowperKettle I don't think I can do it physically. I can do 12 hour IT work, in fact when I'm "in the zone" I love it. I heard there is movement for a 4 day x 10 hour work week.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple Well, of course you don't have to like it. I didn't say it was brilliant, just happened to come across it. What do you think is very bad about it?

@alphabet Yes, exactly.

CowperKettle

@GratefulDisciple I can't focus on mental work; haven't been able since November 2020.

I mean I can still translate, but maybe 20 times slower.

I don't know why.

tchrist

> Les Mouettes d’Arvor Mackerel in Mustard and Crème Fraiche, canned on the coast of Brittany, France, come packed in a thick, luscious sauce of mustard and crème fraîche. The appearance of the sauce—opaque, oily, and pale—was a little off-putting to some tasters, but the flavor was widely appreciated. The sauce is rich, with a nice tart Dijon flavor, and a bit of sweetness.

GratefulDisciple

@CowperKettle Yes, I read through your messages here. I wish I could help. Have you tried meditation / yoga?

CowperKettle

@GratefulDisciple I used to do meditation in the 2000s; I even have a Zazen symbol on my wardrobe in my room. I should try it again.

I was just sitting and focusing on my breath, as I remember. I read some instructions online and some Buddhist articles back then.

tchrist

16:07

And if that description sets unfastbroken tongues a-tingling and mouths a-watering, just wait till you get to their send up of the Mouettes d’Arvor Filets de Maquereaux au vin blanc Muscadet et aux aromates.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus 1) It exaggerates unnecessarily when it could have been done in a subtle way, like I once being offended when a church I go to (with contemporary worship band) would pound the bass drum for EVERY beat while singing "Joy to the world" as though you would have more joy with more forceful bass drum kickings? Oh please, the rhythm is obvious enough, why ruin a perfectly good Christmas carol which in itself can shine without drums?

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple But the exaggeration is the point of the video? It's a Youtube short anyway.

No time for subtlety.

GratefulDisciple

@CowperKettle I would pay attention to the hazards of using medicine (following @M.A.R. advice) and only take what's truly medically necessary as shown by lab results (that's my family's stance) while for mental phenomena (a few years ago I probably could have been diagnosed as depressed) I would aim for CBT + more in tune with one's mental chatter and talk them out with family members.

tchrist

> 6 Country of origin: Spain
4 Country of origin: Portugal
2 Country of origin: France
2 Country of origin: Japan
2 Country of origin: United States
1 Country of origin: China
1 Country of origin: Costa Rica
1 Country of origin: Denmark
1 Country of origin: Iceland
1 Country of origin: Italy

So much for Country of origin: Kazakhstan.

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus I just have an instinct that exaggeration could have been represented a lot more tastefully. When I come across a YouTube short that does better, that would be my evidence.

Cerberus

16:19

@GratefulDisciple Oh, it is the opposite of tasteful.

Do post it!

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus 2) If the actor would be more likable, act more rationally and naturally, like an everyday man, then the satire's message would be more convincing, which is why I like that SNL skit about Wells for Boys so much. The driving satire could have been replaced with going to a convenience store and 2 other places, all within 1 km, with car instead of walking.

@Cerberus Only when I can find it, and when I'm in the mood to look for it. I got many other things this American need to achieve for the day :-), i.e. the stereotype that an American is crazy about being able to check things off in one's todo list.

Cerberus

@GratefulDisciple But wouldn't that be a different type of sketch? And isn't this exaggeration exactly the point?

How can you mock Europeans by doing something closer to reality?

GratefulDisciple

@Cerberus Honestly, I haven't come across much satire of Europeans except in movies like Austin Powers. And I personally don't have stereotypes (yet) about them.

@Cerberus I don't follow. The Wells for Boys don't use overt exaggeration, but demonstrates a certain coddling, a mental habituation that exaggerates a boy's preoccupation with himself, that can be harmful and unhealthy. The sketch presents the scenario as totally plausible, which adds a force to the message. About the driving, what do you think is the point being stereotyped?

jlliagre

16:40

@Cerberus youtube.com/shorts/u7p6TEyjVf8

GratefulDisciple

@CowperKettle Buddhist texts is excellent for self-awareness (I want to read more Buddhism myself), but then, once self-aware, we need to direct our energies for actions which upon completion (doesn't matter whether we're 100%, 50%, or even 10% happy with it) will give us satisfaction that can then motivate us to "rinse and repeat".

So my personal strategy when I was feeling depressed is to force myself to DO even one little task, like completing one chunk of chores / IT work / helping my family members. It's like priming the pump. Of course if one is religious, one can appeal to God for help. At least one can be motivated by love to do one kind thing for another. Or even be motivated to do one kind thing for self, which is NOT selfishness, but self love (wanting the best for oneself).

Robusto

17:00

@jlliagre *Americans who have never been to Europe

M.A.R.

@GratefulDisciple the 5-minute thing? Like, do something for five minutes?

I think I should be medically diagnosed with laziness. Then at least I'll have a document for it.

@Vikas look. We know that most of modern medicine is based on verifiable observations and reproducible results of experiments. So I can be near certain what I say about acne applies to your skin, and my skin.

But we don't know what the medics composing Ayurvedic principles were seeing. So either their observations have to match ours, so we realize that, oh, the ayurvedic word for y is x, or their theories must be put to tests with reproducible results.

jlliagre

17:18

@Robusto Like the short video about Americans, that one is based on a few stereotypes that have some part of truth but so grossly exaggerated that it should be clear it's a joke. Whether the audience find it funny or not seems to vary.

M.A.R.

Since I can't be certain that there's anything verifiable about chi and chakra, I can't trust medicine based on maintaining their balance.

jlliagre

#WhenTaken #305 (28.12.2024)

I scored 856/1000🏆

1️⃣📍30.2 m - 🗓️0 yrs - 🥇200/200
2️⃣📍66.5 m - 🗓️2 yrs - 🥇198/200
3️⃣📍1.2K km - 🗓️11 yrs - 🥈147/200
4️⃣📍518 km - 🗓️2 yrs - 🥇182/200
5️⃣📍3.7K km - 🗓️4 yrs - 🥈129/200

https://whentaken.com

M.A.R.

Older people around you can't follow this simple logic, since people suck at admitting to being wrong, and old people especially so

jlliagre

Wordle 1,288 4/6

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Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Dec. 28, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
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My Score: 1940

Robusto

@jlliagre You probably didn't find that picture funny. Just kind of a head-scratcher.

@M.A.R. At first I agreed with this assessment, but then I realized I was wrong.

M.A.R.

17:23

@Robusto when I see captions like that my expectations plummet. Then I realize if I have to lower my expectations it's because they're never funny

@Robusto doesn't count, you haven't denounced traditional American medicine

Oh wait, you don't even have ancient America. Ooooooooh

I think in the Americas half of traditional medicine is about stimulants anyway

Robusto

@M.A.R. The thing that non-Americans don't understand about America is that we have no common ethnicity, nor any common attitudes, prejudices, appetites, interests, or, for that matter, pretty much anything else.

There is no national "character" ... so attempts to satirize America are like the seven blind men trying to describe an elephant.

M.A.R.

@Robusto everyone in America should carry an ID that mentions where they emigrated from and when.

Robusto

@M.A.R. I was born here.

M.A.R.

Well that just means your ID should probably say 1770, England

Robusto

@M.A.R. Nope. My ancestry is European, but from four separate countries. How do you put that on a driver's license? My ancestors moved here and married here.

Daily Octordle #1069
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GratefulDisciple

17:36

@M.A.R. Never heard about "the 5-minute thing". It's about completing a task (you choose the length, exertion, the type), but usually at least 30 minutes, something that you can feel proud of afterwards.

The key thing that is purely mental is what Thomists call the final 2 (out of 12) stages of a human act (contemplation and "fruition" / enjoyment of an accomplished act) (see rough illustration)

My personal theory is that by rewarding ourselves with #11 and #12, this motivates us to do more. The analysis is empirical psychology based on human nature, though certain stages are more philosophical and I don't think can be medically investigated.

M.A.R.

@GratefulDisciple when something resonates with a people, one possible reason is those people are being manipulated

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. Laziness, depression, and sloth are 3 very different things. Thomistic scheme has its own analysis, making use of these 12 stages, to integrate with the findings of modern psychology, modern medicine, and neurology.

@M.A.R. For sure. My interest in the past few years has been how people are being manipulated by various factors; plenty of data in the past decade. I support 100% double blind clinical trials.

M.A.R.

@GratefulDisciple oh I wasn't being serious up there but now I wonder what Aquinas has to do with laziness

> “Because of laziness, the rafters sag, when hands are slack, the house leaks.”

Don't have any rafters or houses so I should be fine

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. He analyzed the 7 capital sins, sloth being one of them. Unfortunately "sloth" has been understood as a synonym with "laziness", but in Aquinas time, the two were very different. One paper I read a while ago recovers the meaning of "sloth", which by googling I found a copy here.

The Latin term is acedia, and the author wrote another paper that I once read, acedia as "resistance to the demands of love" which is a much more accurate meaning of sloth rather than laziness.

M.A.R.

17:52

@GratefulDisciple TL;DRMtTP

@GratefulDisciple so, anhedonia?

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. What's "MtTP"?

M.A.R.

@GratefulDisciple More than Three Paragraphs

jlliagre

@Robusto Don't stereotype non-Americans either. There is no more stereotypical European, African, Asian, French, Italian, whatever than a stereotypical American, or I should say no more, no less. These videos are gross caricatures. Of course nobody likes being assimilated to their caricature.

M.A.R.

@GratefulDisciple this one is blocking me since I'm a sinner

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. Anhedionia is a new term for me. Thanks. But I don't think they are the same things.

M.A.R.

17:55

Or an Iranian

GratefulDisciple

@M.A.R. Wow, so that site is blocked by Iranian firewall? I'll find a copy at another site. Unfortunately, I have to go. TTYL.

jlliagre

Daily Octordle #1069
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Robusto

@jlliagre As a rule, I try to avoid stereotyping anybody.

jlliagre

Daily Sequence Octordle #1069
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M.A.R.

@jlliagre hey I don't mind being my caricature as long as it's not weilding a kalashnikov yelling "Allahuakbar"

@GratefulDisciple no, by the website themselves

Robusto

17:58

@M.A.R. I'm fine with that. You don't seem like the type.

Daily Sequence Octordle #1069
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Score: 72

jlliagre

18:39

@Robusto Agreed. I just wanted to point out that what you wrote: we have no common ethnicity, nor any common attitudes, prejudices, appetites, interests, or, for that matter, pretty much anything else can be said for most countries and definitely for France which is also quite extensively stereotyped all over the world.

On the other hand, 8 weeks of paid vacation was a fail in that video. They should have exaggerated more.

Connections
Puzzle #566
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tchrist

19:53

0

A: Suffix use in "materialality"?

Arrant catachresis Although instances of materialality (sic) can be found here and there on the internet, it does not occur anywhere in the Oxford English Dictionary, nor even in Google Ngram results. Like so many other such things on the uncurated internet, it should be considered a catachrestic...

But please don't look on the internet, or you'll get grossed out by Urban Dickshunery.

tchrist

20:05

@GratefulDisciple Yes, that translation of the Latin never seemed right to me.

SmokeDetector

20:36

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Potentially bad keyword in body (1): What does Markus Persson say in this clip?‭ by Xamar Itan‭ on english.SE

GratefulDisciple

21:34

@M.A.R. I did a little digging, it turns out ifl.web.baylor.edu is hosted by Cloudflare (a CDN service), so maybe they protect themselves from hacking activity from certain foreign countries. I found another place that posted that PDF, this one is hosted by Amazon AWS S3 storage, hopefully that works for you.

Turns out that version (2013) was Rebecca DeYoung's re-purporsing a longer journal article she wrote in 2004 (for The Thomist), which you can read here (also hosted by Amazon AWS S3).

Xanne

Now a poster wants something concise rather than exact or precise. Where do these people get these ideas? When I look into what I think is trolling, I discover that they’re only naïve.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple As I recall, often websites themselves ban Iranian users to comply with American sanctions.

Xanne

0

Q: What is a concise equivalent or synonym for the idiom "Shooting one/him/herself in the toe"?

I am, ideally, looking for concise phrases and terms that are equivalent in meaning (i.e., synonyms) for an English idiom. The English idiom is "Shooting oneself in the toe."

alphabet

Of course, sanctions (almost) never work and often backfire. But they make the politicians imposing them look tough without much effort. Expect Trump to raise them to show how "tough on Iran" he is.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet Didn't know that American sanctions extend to denying computing services or access to certain websites. It makes more sense that it's Cloudflare's initiative to protect its network rather than Baylor university.

alphabet

21:44

@GratefulDisciple Yes. I believe both GitHub and Stack Exchange block Iranian users. Of course VPNs make bypassing those trivial.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet I plead ignorance other than the fact that appearance of being tough is totally different than the planned effect, and still different, the actual impact on the parties involved.

@alphabet On order from American government? (i.e. GitHub services?) But obviously Stack Exchange is still accessible to M.A.R. (unless @M.A.R. had to resort to VPN to access it).

@tchrist The Wikipedia entry on Acedia says that the English cognate (?) accidie was declared by 1933 OED as "obsolete" (only used bet. 1520-1730) but since then has re-appeared.

alphabet

It certainly doesn't have anything to do with "Iranian hackers" since obviously they have no trouble using VPNs, Tor, etc and wouldn't want to risk giving their location away.

@GratefulDisciple Here's the thing: even if your product can be made to comply with sanctions, it's much easier to just block all Iranian IP addresses than to spend money ensuring that compliance.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet Ouch. One day (if I ever want to offer a cloud service), I hate to think of the political interference factor. If Cloudflare DID ban Iranian source IP access because of "exporting digital product sanction", it's still very unfair for their US customers (like Baylor University) who became an uninteded casualty. So even as a consumer of a public cloud, I now have to think which entity is safer to host my content on. AWS is too big to deny access to their customer's data.

@M.A.R. I would never do that. Living in Jakarta for 18 years as a minority, mingling among Moslems from all socio-economic stripes, including living in a neighborhood where I hear Adhan from the local mosque and where we both exchange greetings (and food!) on both religions' holy days (Eid al-Ftir and Christmas), help me see the people who do that kind of caricature very offensive or at best very ignorant.

alphabet

22:29

@M.A.R. Peyote's been used here since like 1000 BC.

tchrist

@GratefulDisciple The current version is given in the two screenshots above.

The notes are somewhat interesting.

> The post-classical Latin form accidia probably results either from folk-etymological association with accidere (see accident n.) or from a Greek sound change, or may partly reflect both causes. The rare form acidia probably reflects the (folk-etymological) association with classical Latin acidus sour (see acid adj.) recorded by Caesarius of Heisterbach (13th cent.).

alphabet

@M.A.R. 'course we do. They just got killed or relocated to ever-shrinking periods of land where they live in extreme poverty. Sure is good we don't have any countries doing that anymore /s

tchrist

All bold and italic theirs.

> In Middle English and early modern English the position of the main stress apparently varied between the first and second syllables.

> Etymons: French accidie, accide.

The odd accidents already happened occidentally of Rome in France.

I dunno, I feel like a fully evolved acedia might have collide homophonically with something like ácidy or áccidity.

áxiddy

alphabet

"Periods" was a typo it's too late to fix. Should have been "parcels" or something like that.

tchrist

All that -x- or -cc- silliness still being the aforementioned Volkskonfyoozhin.

I need to find rhymes for Latin acedia in Latin, then trace what happened to those words.

@GratefulDisciple Oh good, we can just use acedia as is.

Good.

> < (i) post-classical Latin acedia (see accidie n.), or its etymon (ii) ancient Greek ἀκηδία indifference, listlessness, apathy, literally ‘non-caring-state’ (as a Greek word in Cicero Ad Atticum 12. 45) < ἀκηδής careless, heedless (< ἀ- a- prefix⁶ + κῆδος care, concern < the same Indo-European base as hate n.) + ‑ία ‑ia suffix¹; compare ancient Greek ἀκήδεια carelessness, indifference.

There's that acedy thing, too.

CowperKettle

23:52

@GratefulDisciple Yes. This is approximately what I've been doing. I've been keeping a time use diary for 23 years, and when I feel especially bad, it might help to do tiny steps like memorizing some foreign words at least, or looking for new vacancies.

For some reason even the highest dose of venlafaxine does not work much against anxiety.

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