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00:04
@jlliagre Maybe they’re celebrating virility and control of the population in the original. Invaders often rape the women.
@Xanne Maybe. How would you interpret that one?
00:20
@jlliagre Oh dear. That must not count in the official count of 5 human penises. Plus a basketful already picked from the tree, or cut off from the tree. Did the conquerors castrate monks? Perhaps we don’t know.
@Xanne Oh, that one is not from the Bayeux tapestry but from the Roman de la rose.
Medieval dick pics.
Thi kind of migration of any grammar question to ELL is surely going to drive the number of questions from 5-20 a day to 5-10 a month within months:
3
Q: Are sentences like 'How odd that is!' SOV and can sentences like that be made with verbs besides 'to be'? What is 'how' exactly in these sentences?

ScellaToday while texting my friend, I decided to jocularly send 'How very queer you are!' To me, this sentence sounds correct, but I can't quite understand how it works. Is English not an SVO language? Why would the complement precede the subject and the verb? This looks like an OSV/SOV sentence to me...

@Araucaria-Him I maintain my position that the worst offenders among the close voters should get a stern warning from the mods, followed by a suspension if they don't stop. I see no other viable solution to the problem, other than outright banning migration.
4
@jlliagre Ad for a cruising spot, duh.
@alphabet Agreed.
@Araucaria-Him I still have that data about whose close votes get overturned most frequently. I could post a meta question literally naming them in the title, but I assume it'd get flagged and reported instantly.
I believe @tchrist has been somewhat receptive of ideas about how to violently murder deal with these users, but he can't see my chat messages. (Long story.)
00:38
@alphabet Very interesting, but also time-consuming (and I don't have any of that t-stuff right now now) However, it's life-affirming to have some fellow travellers on the basic issue!
@Araucaria-Him I have a table somewhere with those numbers; I can dig it up. It's just an insanely complicated SEDE query.
@alphabet I'll pass right now because you mentioned the word 'complicated'! Hope you have a very happy New Year! Am going to make like a headache and split!
:)
@Araucaria-Him Likewise! And hope your thesis is going well.
01:09
@jlliagre Maybe you already know, but googling led me to the illustration's commentary identifying the manuscript in its hi-def glory and the wife & husband illustrator & publisher duo Jeanne and Richard Montbaston. Guess I need to read the book to find out the passage context of the illustration.
@GratefulDisciple Thank you very much.
@Xanne Thank you very much.
01:21
How do you observe charged particles in the air?
You just keep an ion them.
01:35
I cannot focus, so I just sit and do nothing.
Connections
Puzzle #565
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I was kind of lucky, didn't really know the purple.
Connections
Puzzle #564
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Purple I would have never guessed.
Yellow I should have got right in the first instance.
Connections
Puzzle #563
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This was mainly luck, and I had no idea about purple.
01:52
@Araucaria-Him Yes, it certainly will. Crying shame it is too. Dark have been my dreams of late.
Meanwhile we have ELU users who don't believe in noun adjuncts only in nouns adjective from back when they were called nomina adjectiva. Sigh. I can't migrate users.
#563 I blew it, #564 The purple I would never have guessed also, #565 not available yet in my time zone.
Connections
Puzzle #564
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@alphabet Well, I think you are allowed to post public data?
@GratefulDisciple Hmm it is interesting how different green was for us.
@Cerberus I simply worked on the Yellow and the Blue first. The Green I tackled next but it's a category I'm not at all familiar.
@Araucaria-Him Unfortunately the asker has not returned to clarify his intended purpose, so I don't know that people are necessarily on the right track in answering him. I just know that only one of them is NOT on the wrong track automatically. If he's really asking for something simplistic, we must have hundreds of similar questions amongst which I sure wish one would stand out as canonical.
02:09
@GratefulDisciple Hmm I'm actually not sure any more what green was in 564.
02:19
@Cerberus What do you mean? Even after you are done with a puzzle, you can always go back to the archive and click the "Admire puzzle" button to show you each color's category. Link for #564.
@GratefulDisciple First, the archive is only is you pay.
Secondly, all I meant was that I just couldn't remember.
Sleep deprived.
@Cerberus After a holiday? Partying too hard?
Just not sleeping enough.
> I am sure there is matter for a broadcast-talk on the subject which you mention, as long as you and anybody who talks remember the fact, pointed out by Bernard Shaw, that odium philologicum is more bitter than odium theologicum, and that a murderous spirit may well be aroused by any controversy about English grammar or usage. All the more fun.
@Cerberus I hope at least it was time well spent.
02:23
Spent lying in bed trying to sleep.
@Cerberus With a book I hope? As long as I haven't slept for more than 8 hours the night before I can usually go to sleep while reading a book, even an interesting book.
No.
And I have no trouble falling asleep as the night begins.
Staying asleep is hard.
But it doesn't matter.
@Cerberus Sorry to hear that then, won't pry further :-).
Just wanted to lower any expectations of an intelligent conversation from my side.
It's not strange to sleep in two shifts separated by an interval spent doing something or other that isn't physically taxing.
It used to be considered normal.
During medieval times, for example.
02:27
I just don't have 14 hours' time for that.
And even then it would be hard.
I automatically fall asleep as night falls. But that doesn't mean I sleep 10 or 12 hours!
@tchrist I sometimes do that too. I usually wake up and do some web browsing or read news article for an hour or too, and then usually sleepiness will ensue.
Yes.
I might need to wait for 4 or 6 hours and then wake up again after another hour.
Sometimes eating a piece of fruit or especially a bit of muesli with milk makes me tired again.
02:28
@tchrist Would be interesting to know the medieval sleeping practice. I heard siesta is still a thing in Italy?
Sleeping pills are the best.
@Cerberus That's annoying.
@GratefulDisciple Everywhere in southern Europe. But it used to also be in the north! Moment....
That one.
Talks about how there normally used to be a "siesta" so to speak everywhere.
@tchrist Thanks, looks interesting, so does the Channel (Historia Civilis).
@Cerberus If you can get by with diphenhydramine or melatonin, then good. Things like benzodiazepines are a bad idea, and I'm not convinced zolpidem is any better. I also have elderly neighbors in their 80s who swear by these little pills with CBD and THC in them.
@GratefulDisciple It very much is so.
02:35
@tchrist Wow, employers provide 3-4 meals during the work hours! Sounds like Hobbit meal schedule.
@tchrist Why a bad idea? They work for me.
Melatonin is mainly a placebo.
02:46
@Cerberus Because you become physically dependent on them, and after a while they end up making you sleep too much. I believe the long half-life sorts like clonazepam are preferred for this but I'm not doctor nor even a fairly well-informed non-doctor. They also have dangerous interactions with many things, including alcohol. They just aren't as terrible as barbiturates in that regard.
@Cerberus Yes, it is. Diphenhydramine leaves me too fog-headed in the morning to be at my peak alertness but then so too did my neighbor's pills she lent me when I was having trouble sleeping.
They're probably ok to break the cycle, and better than spiralling down into worse conditions.
Even sub-therapeutic doses of SSRIs like escitalopram can help you sleep better. I'm not sure there's a model that explains that. Quiets the mind somehow.
Somebody once told me that that was cyclobenzaprine's trick, too, but that was so long ago I can't recall how it works.
@tchrist Why do you say I am dependent on them? I don't take them all the time, and I only take something the 1/6th or 1/4th of a pill.
And sleeping too much? I never get to sleep 8 hours.
@Cerberus Okay. It's taking the full dose every day for weeks that leads to sleeping 10 or 12 or 14 hours a day for many people.
@tchrist Is this like other antihistamines? Because I tried taking the antihistamine that I have, but it doesn't do anything whatsoever for my sleep or alertness or anything related to that.
@tchrist I have heard something of thus.
03:01
@Cerberus It's a very old one, and it's what they normally add to over-the-counter cocktail medications to call them "Blah PM" versions where the PM bit is their way of telling you that they make you sleep more.
@tchrist I normally never take one at the beginning of the night, only in the middle. But I once tried taking a whole pill when I went to bed the night before a funeral. I still woke up after 3 hours and couldn't sleep any more, nothing can keep me asleep for long if I go to bed early. It only works if I take it in the middle of the night.
You don't ever get tachycardia for no apparent reason lying in bed, do you?
@tchrist I doubt whether this would have any effect on me.
@tchrist Not sure I follow.
I have several distinct sleep issues. One is a breathing issue, but that is independent of the issue where I can only sleep 2/3/4 hours if I go to bed early.
@Cerberus It's Rx-only in the Netherlands.
@Cerberus Sometimes heart palpitations can wake you up. Whether they're a concern is something else; usually they are completely benign, not actual heart issues like from long QT syndrome.
I'm typing in the dark with my eyes half closed, it's so late here.
It doesn't feel like palpitations.
More like mild hyperventilation.
03:07
Okay good, not that those are likely anything bad, they just feel awful.
Yeah.
I have experience those, I think perhaps from Ibuprofen, but in the morning after cycling.
@Cerberus That's odd. I bet a good diagnostician could differential diagnose you into a better solution to whatever it is.
@Cerberus Exercising when hung over, too.
Yeah my nose/throat/ear doctor had me do a sleep test, but I only managed to sleep for 2 (4 awake) 1 hours before they woke me up at 7 in the night, while the technician said you needed at least 5 hours of uninterrupted sleep for the test to be useful.
So I should go back to my GP and try something else, but ugh...
@tchrist Hmm I don't remember that.
@Cerberus I deliberately went without enough sleep the night before mine long, long ago — and took a lot of diphenhydramine. I still slept like crap at the test, just like everybody else I know. Things have changed since then.
Well I never get enough sleep, so I was sleep-deprived enough at the test.
But I just can't sleep long when I go to bed early.
But it's OK.
03:14
It is not critical that you sleep the whole night solid. What's critical is that you get REM sleep.
I can manage with the pills as a back-up.
@tchrist What is also critical is that the doctor is actually looking for something. But he just told me, "congrats, you don't have apnoea", which I didn't expect to have anyway.
You have to get into stage 3 and stage 4 sleep for it to be restorative. You will cycle through all your stages every hour and a half or so.
Then sent me away.
@tchrist Well, the breathing issue doesn't seem to occur the first few hours of sleep.
So the test didn't help there.
@Cerberus Well good for you. If you had managed to sleep long enough, they can sometimes tease out other things in the data. And they'll know your cycling habits.
@tchrist Yes, that is what I would have wanted.
03:17
Do you get restless legs syndrome by chance?
I also think it is silly how they don't allow people who go there because they have sleep problems to sleep according to their own sleep cycles.
Bikers and runners can get that.
@tchrist Nope.
And I am not "a biker", I just bike normally.
03:18
I don't get it, although if I get too dehydrated after a hike I will get leg cramps at night because my metals are out of balance.
Hmm yeah, cramps can be annoying.
"electrolytes"
I get those when my legs are too cold, outside the blanket.
I do remember getting it before, though. Just not in recent decades.
That must be frustrating.
03:19
Cramps can be so bad they wake you up. Just yuck.
Foot cramps, too.
Yes, of course leg cramps will wake you up?
Not just calf or thigh or um, neck I think is the other common cramp I get sometimes. But foot craps are annoying.
Yes.
Foot are worse than calf?
Okay I'm going to go drink something to restore my fluids. Then go to sleep.
I think I only get calf in bed.
03:21
Yes, somehow they are.
Yes, all these are usually only in bed for me.
Hmm.
They aren't the source of insomnia, just an aggravation.
And it's always due to electrolyte imbalance brought on from "exercising".
OK.
But these don't trouble you much, nowadays?
04:27
@Cerberus Yes, but not to write a post criticizing other people in a way that might seem too personal. I dunno if it breaks any rules but it will make people pissed off.
 
3 hours later…
07:07
0
Q: What are the best advanced techniques to perfect pronunciation for subtle English phonemes in PTE Speaking?

Brijesh DhananiI'm struggling with precise sounds like /ɪ/ vs. /i:/ and connected speech. Any expert tips or resources for advanced learners?

Look at this guy's profile and try to figure out why he, of all people, is asking this question.
07:39
I was feeling so emotionally horrible yesterday. I wonder if venlafaxine 320 mg is actually making me worse.
08:14
@Cerberus oh yes. Much worse
@Cerberus if you want a crash course on pills that make you asleep, give me a ping. You guys talked about anything and everything, so I can't dump a whole chapter of a pharmacology textbook here, but if there's anything specific I might be able to help
Not outright medical advice though of course
@tchrist we don't really know what causes them, but sure, correcting your electrolytes helps
Magnesium is all the rage here because people think it alleviates cramps but the studies don't seem to support it.
@alphabet some ESL think any sound native speakers of English produce that isn't spelled out in the word is part of the wizardry involved in sounding fluent. It's like thinking that you can be considered rich if you take a selfie in front of a Lamborghini
So that post is from a fairly fluent ESL with very limited access to educated native speakers, who thinks about the whole thing the wrong way.
@CowperKettle did you initiate and titrate it properly? Or did you just (re)start taking it 320 mg per day?
08:51
Strands #299
“Back in style”
🔵🔵🟡🔵
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09:48
I got hired.
And I'm going to work next Monday.
@DannyuNDos Congrats!
 
3 hours later…
12:27
@M.A.R. I gradually increased it from 100 mg; I was taking 100mg for months, because previously, when I tried rising it above 200mg, I literally slept 12+ hours a day.
This time, with methylfolate and folinic acid, it does not cause somnolescence.
Maybe indeed folinic acid helps a person maintain the levels of neuromediators, as the hypothesis says.
But I feel stupor through the day, even though I chatted today with an old lady in a queue
Stupor and bad emotions.
Yesterday I wrote my only remaining translation client that I would no longer translate, because it takes me too long, and anyway that I would commit suicide eventually.
12:54
@Araucaria-Him New York Times obituary from Christmas Eve: William Labov, Who Studied How Society Shapes Language, Dies at 97.
3
@DannyuNDos Is it just me, or has your country's Constitution been written in a way that it's a bit buggy in that it has certain stability flaws that are being exploited by your legislature right now?
Of course, if it does have such, I wouldn't be surprised if the United States bears some responsibility for those bugs.
13:24
@M.A.R. Surely here the asker need only spend as many hours a day meditating upon that famousest of mystic mantras, The sixth sick sheik’s sixth sheep’s sick, as it takes for the necessary clarifying enlightenment to spontaneously appear.
@DannyuNDos As a new justice in your Supreme court? Congrats :-)
13:49
@tchrist Thanks for sharing. Reminds me of Josef Pieper's book Abuse of Language -- Abuse of Power which is very pertinent in the past decade due to you-know-who abusing the sacred word "Truth".
Beauty has already been relativized to "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". And now it's Truth's turn? What has the world come to.
14:17
@M.A.R. The issue I was thinking of is: he's asking how to prepare for a test when he runs a company that helps people to prepare for that very same test.
14:57
@Araucaria-Him the usual suspects who also vote to close as off-topic
Highly correlated users with answers that tend to be, how to euphemism this..., stupid.
#travle #744 +0 (Perfect)
✅✅✅
https://travle.earth

#WhenTaken #304 (27.12.2024)

I scored 911/1000👑

1️⃣📍64.2 m - 🗓️0 yrs - 🥇200/200
2️⃣📍300 km - 🗓️3 yrs - 🥇187/200
3️⃣📍341 km - 🗓️8 yrs - 🥇178/200
4️⃣📍823 m - 🗓️0 yrs - 🥇200/200
5️⃣📍1.1K km - 🗓️12 yrs - 🥈146/200

https://whentaken.com

Wordle 1,287 3/6

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@alphabet I mean he's not going to suggest some other company.
Connections
Puzzle #565
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@Mitch Yeah, I figured he was just gonna post an answer plugging the company he runs.
15:31
@Peterש Yes, that's right. Some of the many syntactic tests for nouns-vs-adjectives include: §1 A predicate test with a copula or other linking verb, which most nouns fail but most adjectives pass (e.g.: a simple character > a character is simple VS a wildcard character > a character is ❌ wildcard). §2 A morphology test where you see which of inflecting as a noun or as an adjective produces a grammatical result (e.g.: some characters are wildcards VS some characters are ❌ more wildcard than others). — tchrist ♦ 9 mins ago
@Peter §3 A noun-phrase–ordering test because any noun adjuncts must follow all adjectives in a noun phrase, so if you can swap two modifiers then both are of the same word-class not different ones (e.g.: a new wildcard character VS a ❌ wildcard new character). Other useful syntactic tests for this purpose include a substitution test, a coördination test, and testing for the semantic role. In all these tests most attributive nouns will all either pass or fail whereas most attributive adjectives will do exactly the opposite of that. Together the preponderance of evidence is dispositive. — tchrist ♦ 1 min ago
I sure wish people would use science not guesswork.
And I forgot the intensifier test.
There are so many, many tests for this.
#WhenTaken #304 (27.12.2024)

I scored 890/1000🏆

1️⃣📍85.9 m - 🗓️21 yrs - 🥈151/200
2️⃣📍920 km - 🗓️1 yrs - 🥈171/200
3️⃣📍439 m - 🗓️12 yrs - 🥇179/200
4️⃣📍711 m - 🗓️2 yrs - 🥇198/200
5️⃣📍1.7 km - 🗓️7 yrs - 🥇191/200

https://whentaken.com
@Peterש Another syntactic test is an intensifier test: most nouns don't like being modified by intensifiers or adverbs, but most adjectives are fine with that. In the same fashion, most nouns can be modified by an adjective but most adjectives cannot be and attempting to do so yields something ungrammatical. Do you see how this business of using syntactic tests works to figure out what something's word class is? There can be individual exceptions here and there, but the overwhelming results will always skew one way or the other. That's the scientific way to determine the answer. — tchrist ♦ 4 mins ago
Connections
Puzzle #565
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Wordle 1,287 3/6

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Daily Octordle #1068
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Score: 77
16:00
Strands #299
“Back in style”
🔵🔵🔵🔵
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And back in a while.
@alphabet that should tell how bent out of shape what they teach is
16:14
*you
@tchrist pretty heated argument in that thread but I dunno why it shouldn't be clear to everyone (given that it's clear to me)
I thought the distinction between syntactic and lexical categories was universally accepted? So the controversy is surprising to me.
I spent my whole day today working on personal stuff. Last time I did so was years ago.
@Vikas oh my god, how do you feel
Maybe people just wanna use the word "adjective" and don't like the word "modifier"
Or 1980s is too novel for the science of linguistics
16:46
@M.A.R. It's because it's how your high school English teacher explains things.
@M.A.R. I wonder what a "subtle English phoneme" is.
@M.A.R. Only in the actual field of linguistics, studied by nearly nobody. This is never taught to native speakers who are only taught parts of speech as very young children, and little to nothing ever any higher level than that. They have zero idea of what a "syntactic constituent" is or is not, and why these matter.
As we all know, English vowels are divided into two classes, subtle and not-so-subtle.
@M.A.R. Folk schooled before those years balk at taking timely mind updates coming out of the tongues worldken. You will see this bright as day showing up in several answers and snippets by such folk in those threads there.
17:02
@M.A.R. We should write some new questions that will generate professionally sound answers rooted in standard syntactic tests which can then become canonical close targets for a bunch of these perpetual confusions over lexical-vs-syntactic categories. Basically anything that involves "used at BLAH" leads to problems and contradictions with many misunderstandings and endless arguments, so we should provide solid canonicals for these (beatification optional).
@M.A.R. Unfortunately this is often hampered by folks who turn only to dictionaries as Holy Books that are by youthful naïveté or prescriptive fiat somehow considered inerrantly correct for anything and everything, whether it's for pronunciations or for grammatical information, and who then become confused by the contradictions between dictionaries in all this due to each of them using different underlying models.
@M.A.R. It's hit the Hot Network Questions list.
17:31
@tchrist The US Constitution used to have a similar ambiguity about the powers of the Vice President when he becomes "acting President" after the President's death; ultimately this was finally settled by a constitutional amendment.
We now have disagreement in this matter between the various Holy Books cited. Jihads have been fought over less than this.
Not to mention schisms in the clergy leading to having three popes for the price of one. It's all too brutally religious for me. Remember Tolkien père’s words to Tolkien fils:
15 hours ago, by tchrist
> I am sure there is matter for a broadcast-talk on the subject which you mention, as long as you and anybody who talks remember the fact, pointed out by Bernard Shaw, that odium philologicum is more bitter than odium theologicum, and that a murderous spirit may well be aroused by any controversy about English grammar or usage. All the more fun.
Who will set themselves up as judge as to which writs are apocryphal and which ones are holy? No thank you.
Vita brevis, tempus fugit.
 
2 hours later…
19:20
@tchrist I read through the debate on whether attributive nouns modifying other nouns become adjective or not. It's enlightening, thanks. Per original Tolkien quote, I now wonder, which one is more bitter / deadly: odium philologicum or odium grammaticum (sp?) 😊. A 2nd question I wonder in my mind is whether NLP programs have your "half dozen well-known syntactic test" coded, being answered by consulting its LLM citation data, instead of using simple statistical-based neural-net.
19:33
I meant: ... instead of using simple statistical-based neural-net without incorporating those syntactic test.
20:06
@tchrist I cannot say much, but yeah.
If there comes 3rd impeach request, South Korea is going into anarchy.
21:03
@tchrist Ars longa, fructus fugit.
Moscae fructae bananās amant.
Daily Octordle #1068
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Score: 63
21:25
Daily Sequence Octordle #1068
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Score: 68
Tightrope, a daily trivia game | Britannica

Dec. 27, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
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My Score: 2070
Daily Sequence Octordle #1068
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6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
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Score: 60
22:17
"Due to a shortage of devoted followers, the production of great leaders has been discontinued."
 
1 hour later…
23:25
@Mitch You're reasonably familiar with the history and applications of theoretical frameworks of structuralism and generative-transformational grammars in the modern science of linguistics, aren't you?

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