English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

19:00

raises roof

Alenanno

Uhm guys, gotta go, I'll catch y'all later. Have fun! :D

KitFox

Bye!

Robusto

Which IPA character is used to approximate the /o/ sound in the German word voll?

cornbread ninja

@KitFox 8 minutes? Aw, hell no.

KitFox

@cornbreadninja Oh, please don't. I was joshing.

cornbread ninja

19:01

@KitFox !

user19161

@cornbreadninja I only scrolled to the parts where I could see the guy in bed.

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy mmhmm that's right.

Robusto

Nobody knows? Where's @RegDwighт when you need him?

KitFox

@cornbreadninja I am pretty sure I'm not a Katy Perry fan.

cornbread ninja

@Robusto mightn't tchrist know?

Robusto

19:03

@tchrist seems to be sleeping. Or working. If there's a difference.

Matt Эллен

oops!

KitFox

Nobody saw that!

user19161

I saw it!

KitFox

shh

user19161

OK, don't worry I won't be stalking you!

Matt Эллен

19:04

nope. I didn't see a thing

nothing the FBI don't already know

cornbread ninja

dangit!

KitFox

I guess there's no point in hiding it any longer.

I've been impersonating a fox.

This has all been a clever ruse to convince you to trust me enough to elect me as a moderator.

Now I shall take over the world!

Robusto

Somebody has to. Make sure you clean up after yourself.

Matt Эллен

will you remain in foxy disguise when you take over?

KitFox

I haven't decided yet. But whomever your ruler is, that's me.

Even if I deny it when you confront me.

user19161

19:09

Wow, the use of whomever!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен come on. Kit's always foxy.

KitFox

The real me is neither foxy nor female.

user19161

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And Mr Shiny is always shiny.

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 true, but she's always impersonating a fox, so I can't be sure if it's natural...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Shiny like a cue-ball

KitFox

19:10

I don't even have children.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен She never steps out of character

KitFox

I just stole those pictures off the Internets.

user19161

@KitFox That sounds like a double lie which makes it a truth.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox and your voice?

KitFox

Shit.

Um.

Matt Эллен

19:10

:D

KitFox

I found that online too.

Robusto

@KitFox You have pictures of the Internets? Share.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You can't fool us. Your story's been too consistent for it to be a lie!

I bet I could even find you on Facebook!

KitFox

Ach, no! I stole everything from the Facebook profile of a friend of a friend!

user19161

You guys can find me on F***book!

cornbread ninja

19:12

Robusto

That's what I thought. Tubes.

KitFox

Whoa.

cornbread ninja

Sho nuff.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja THAT candy-cane belongs on my Christmas tree!

cornbread ninja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yum!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:13

bonus points if one of the corners is a teapot

user19161

@cornbreadninja What does that even mean?

Robusto

Jasper, stop whooshing the guests.

cornbread ninja

@JasperLoy a series of candy-striped tubes!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

btw @Cerberus I got two new android phones today for work: a Sony Xperia Arc S and an LG Optimus L7. Conclusion: Never ever buy anything but a Nexus.

(And I may have to strengthen my conclusion to "a Samsung Nexus"... we'll see)

Anyone who has an Android phone that's not a nexus and is disappointed by it? Do yourself a favour and try the real Google thing.

Robusto

Um, sounds like a statistically insignificant sampling if it only included two phones.

user19161

19:17

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I got a Sony Xperia Anroid phone now too!

user19161

I think it is not my type of phone.

cornbread ninja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I like my Atrix 2 just fine.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Well, essentially, of all the phones I've tried, I've hated many aspects of the build quality and/or vendor-software.

Robusto

Jun 7 at 20:22, by Robusto

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Playstations suck. Sony sucks. Everything Sony does is wrong.

user19161

For one, I can't figure out how not to store dialled numbers or sent messages. For two, I have to delete them one by one.

Robusto

19:18

Jun 7 at 20:23, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Yes! I so totally agree with this! It's what I tell all my friends!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja I will admit that the Atrix 4G I've tried didn't disappoint me too much - except that Moto has stopped supporting it for no good reason.

cornbread ninja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 It got ICS a few weeks ago.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja The Atrix 2, you mean

cornbread ninja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yes sir.

user19161

Nowadays everything stores everything by default. I want things which store nothing by default, be it phone or email.

cornbread ninja

19:19

@JasperLoy hear, hear.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja Well, that's better than the 4g, which is never getting it.

user19161

@cornbreadninja You mean I ain't the only crazy guy?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But the Nexus S got ICS in March. And got Jelly Bean in June or July.

cornbread ninja

►

Don't watch that.

@JasperLoy no way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway, Moto seems to be doing alright, build-wise, but not so great when it comes to delivering updates. Their customizations on the Atrix 4G don't appear too intrusive. I rarely swore at it in frustration when I was testing it.

Robusto

19:21

@JasperLoy A rock stores nothing by default. You could get a rock.

cornbread ninja

Just ask Charlie Brown.

Matt Эллен

Good Grief!

user19161

@cornbreadninja Those must be kit, corn, martha and spare.

KitFox

raises eyebrow

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Anyway, no android device has made me as happy about android as the Nexus S or the Galaxy Nexus.

@JasperLoy You didn't see me dancing in that video?

cornbread ninja

19:23

runs hand down thigh

KitFox

►

Matt Эллен

Kitcorn and the ninjabread fox

user19161

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Now I see Mr Shiny and Robusto dancing in there too!

Robusto

@cornbreadninja Stop teasing us.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox forgot about that one!

user19161

19:24

@cornbreadninja This is getting too XXX!

KitFox

Well now, living in a world of ghetto life...

cornbread ninja

:x

Robusto

Now look what you've done. You've got Jasper panting like a muskrat in heat.

user19161

Hey @mrs careful don't sprain your back doing that movement!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy That doesn't ping me anymore

And anyway that video is from 1992, when I was more muscular and also black.

5

user19161

19:25

What about @mr.?

Robusto

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So was Michael Jackson, IIRC.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Yeah that works

user19161

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Wonderful, now we only need to use the first three letters or whatever, including punctuation!

user19161

Now Mr Shiny can be a Mr. and not a Mrs.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy more precisely: the first three characters, excluding spaces, I guess. So you can ping people with non-ascii names

@JasperLoy I was only a mrs for you, jasper.

user19161

19:27

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Rather, Mahnax!

user19161

He started this Hiny thing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Relax, boys! There's enough of me to go around

Matt Эллен

:D

KitFox

►

Remember this one?

RegDwighт

@Robusto ɔ

Robusto

19:28

@RegDwighт Thanks. I knew you'd come and save the day.

RegDwighт

Day saved! Off to the hangoutmobile!

Robusto

Laters.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox yes he is!

Mitch

@MετάEd yeah, that's the other one.

KitFox

He's not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, he's a thiller.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:31

@KitFox That is a really silly song

Mitch

@KitFox put some -pants- on!

KitFox

sticks out tongue

►

That is a really silly song.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox ... "knocks me out with one shot for the rest of the night"...? um, contradiction!

Mitch

@cornbreadninja I got a rock.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox yeah, it's pretty silly too

cornbread ninja

19:33

@Mitch :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

believe it or not I have that album on a CD

I guess I ran out of other albums to buy and needed to fulfill a Columbia House contract or smth

KitFox

►

A gigantic black woman used to sing this at karaoke.

cornbread ninja

►

KitFox

Man, I want to go play San Andreas now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

sigh these songs are TWENTY YEARS OLD

There are people who will vote for the US President soon who weren't born when they were released

starts pouring rum into shot glasses

KitFox

19:36

I'll drink to that.

Matt Эллен

teenagers vote? hmmm... ;)

cornbread ninja

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 to steal from Alenanno, U_U

Matt Эллен

has a vodka coke at the ready

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hands out glasses

To the 90s!

drinks, pours another

Matt Эллен

The 90s!

cornbread ninja

19:38

Hip, hip!

hip-hop!

Matt Эллен

lol

cornbread ninja

I mean hooray!

KitFox

To the 90s.

To the hip.

To the B to the R the O the O-K L-Y-N is the place where I stay.

cornbread ninja

no sleep til / brooklyn

KitFox

►

cornbread ninja

19:39

woops, 80s.

Matt Эллен

To Radiohead and to Far and the birth of Emo

KitFox

Mos Def looks like a guy I used to have great sex with.

To the teeth! To the lees!

Matt Эллен

Looks like a guy one would have great sex with

KitFox

makes note to have great sex soon

cornbread ninja

@KitFox photocopies note

KitFox

19:42

Let's do it together!

I mean. Not like that.

I meant at the same time.

Oh. Not like that.

cornbread ninja

:D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

►

KitFox

THere is a video of my husband covering that song on YouTube.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> Don't you ever, ever, pull my liver

cornbread ninja

►

KitFox

19:45

Effing Ontario Provincial Police.

cornbread ninja

@KitFox the mountiest!

KitFox

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hahaha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

ah, I got it wrong, it's "never ever"

whoops

Mitch

FOPP and their brethren FRCMP

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@cornbreadninja Nah, that's the RCMP

Mitch

19:46

jinx

cornbread ninja

Speaking of the 90s... RHCP

Mitch

ahh, I just got the 'OPP' danged if I'm clicking on that link.

cornbread ninja

@Mitch that's the tamest of the videos that have been posted this afternoon.

Mitch

not the lyrics.

I -didn't- know what they mean so I looked it up.

They just mumble real good.

cornbread ninja

Here you go, Mitch

►

Mitch

19:52

@cornbreadninja I won't listen to your smut. all that ... twisting.

cornbread ninja

@Mitch :D

Mitch

da da da da, d' da da duh da

KitFox

Is that the Star Wars theme?

Mitch

so when they talk about sex in songs, what is it they're -really- talking about?

KitFox

A two-year-old humming Darth Vader's theme is pretty hilarious, by the way.

@Mitch God, I think.

Mitch

19:54

@KitFox no. what? vaders theme is - da da da, da d' dah, da d' dah.

KitFox

No, that's Star Wars.

Vader's is da da da dun da da.

Duh.

Mitch

@KitFox star wars is - da dah, da d'dah dah

duh.

jinx

KitFox

rofl

tchrist

When speaking of words, does etymology always mean origin and/or history? Does origin and/or history always mean etymology?

KitFox

No. Etymology is only origin.

Mitch

19:56

@tchrist yes?both?

@KitFox no, etymology is the whole chain.

KitFox

You just couldn't wait to contradict me, could you?

narrows eyes

Matt Эллен

it's OK, Mitch is wrong

tchrist

I find that people keep using etymology when I am pretty sure I would always use a simpler word.

Mitch

@MattЭллен what? really?

KitFox

I was told very firmly that word-history and etymology were different.

tchrist

19:57

is confused

Mitch

@tchrist yeah, I see that.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch I rushed to contradict you!

KitFox

Since history encompasses changes in usage and meaning while etymology does not.

Mitch

@MattЭллен That's not right.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch it's not wrong

Mitch

19:58

@KitFox Oh. but...

MετάEd

Go ahead, somebody. I dare you. Post the question. "What does etymology mean and what is the origin of the term."

KitFox

Yes! Yes! YES!

Mitch

@MattЭллен If it's wrong I don't want to be right. Are we talking about God again?

MετάEd

While you're at it, "what's another word for 'thesaurus'".

Mitch

classic!

KitFox

19:59

Beautiful.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch uh... we're talking about the meaning of meanings

KitFox

Need it. Want it.

Bring it.

Mitch

@MattЭллен OK...then sex it is.

cornbread ninja

prays for Omarion

MετάEd

Incidentally (in my best Cockney) wo' 'oes gu'ural mean?

Matt Эллен

19:59

"How do you spell 'dictionary'?"

MετάEd

"How do you use "dictionary" in a sentence?

Matt Эллен

gu'ural?

girl?

tchrist

This bothers me:

0

Q: What is the etymology of the phase "name on underwear"?

I've heard this term in pop culture many times, usually in reference to someone who is a geek/nerd. Back to the Future Marty McFly: Calvin? Wh... Why do you keep calling me Calvin? Lorraine Baines: Well, that is your name, isn't it? Calvin Klein? It's written all over your underwear. We...

MετάEd

@MattЭллен "guttural"

Matt Эллен

oh!

MετάEd

20:00

using a glottal stop.

KitFox

@tchrist That is not etymology.

MετάEd

Three glottal stops, actually.

Matt Эллен

the cockneys are a gutteral race

MετάEd

"Wo' 'oes glo'al mean?"

Mitch

'phase'?

tchrist

20:01

@KitFox There are a lot of questions like that. They bother me. What is the question they should be asking?

@MattЭллен No, just glottal.

KitFox

@tchrist Not sure. Phrase history? Cultural reference?

tchrist

"I do not think that that word means what you think it means."

Matt Эллен

sorry, that was classist of me

tchrist

> The process of tracing out and describing the elements of a word with their modifications of form and sense.

There are no form or sense changes going on here.

This is just a stupid pop-un-culturism.

Matt Эллен

etymology in Oxford Dictionaries Online

but anyway. Time to take on some inquest ne'er do wells

tchrist

20:05

I already cited you the OED. Don't make me do it again.

That's three points off your licence, son.

Matt Эллен

I cited the OED in a different form

since ODO is run by the OED

KitFox

I'm off. Laterz!

cornbread ninja

@KitFox toodles! wink

Robusto

@tchrist Relax, he's just going through a phase.

Mitch

20:49

Princess Leia: Your friend is quite the mercenary. I wonder if he really cares about anything. Or anybody.[she stalks out]

Luke: [calling after her] I care.

tchrist

The underwear bandit has returned.

-2

Q: What is the meaning and origin of "name on underwear" and its variations?

I've heard this term in pop culture many times, usually in reference to someone who is a geek/nerd. Back to the Future Marty McFly: Calvin? Wh... Why do you keep calling me Calvin? Lorraine Baines: Well, that is your name, isn't it? Calvin Klein? It's written all over your underwear. We...

meaning idioms cultural-phrases

user19161

@MattЭллен Actually ODO is approximately the ODE, not the OED.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy it's run by the OUP, who make the OED. It has access to all the same resources.

user19161

@MattЭллен Of course, but you know what I mean. I find it weird that they have so many dictionaries.

MετάEd

Dammit. I did not get to closevote the peeve question. You snooze, you lose, I guess.

Matt Эллен

20:55

not really, I don't know what ODE is meant to mean.

tchrist

There is a difference between a history of the change in meanings, and a history of the change in forms.

user19161

@MattЭллен ODE means Oxford Dictionary of English.

tchrist

Odo (Star Trek)

Odo (), played by René Auberjonois, is a major character on the science fiction television series Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. He is a member of a fictional shapeshifting race called Changelings and serves as the head of security for the space station Deep Space Nine on which the show is set. Overview One of "the hundred" sent out by The Founders long ago to explore the galaxy, Odo was found adrift in 2356 in the Denorios Belt by Bajorans. It is unclear how long he had been adrift. Since Odo had not yet learned how to morph into a humanoid appearance, he appeared in his natural gela...

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy OK.

tchrist

@nohat Californians have a bunch of mergers that confuse me. I can’t quite repro all of them, but the missing w thing was one I recently noticed.

user19161

21:00

@MattЭллен The ODE is the biggest one-volume Oxford dictionary.

tchrist

When "will" is used with the "if" clause? - (1) If you will/would kindly lend me your book, I will be thankful to you. (2) If you will not/would not mind lending me your book, I will be thankful to you. (3) If you will/would wait a while, I will check it for you. Are these sentences correct? Could you please tell me? — Tiny 10 mins ago

Mitch

@JasperLoy it doesn't mean to mean that. It means OED, it is meant to mean that you better shut the eff up and listen because the OED -is- the English language, not some lame-ass dictionary like mw or ahd.

tchrist

@Tiny I think you had best make that a new question. — tchrist 8 mins ago

nohat

@tchrist missing W?

tchrist

@nohat Technically, it is a lack of rounding on various sounds that I use rounded vowels for. I think rounding is no longer phonemic for them.

Mitch

21:02

@tchrist I fail to see the relevance of any of tiny's comments to underwear.

tchrist

I am wondering if your FOOT/STRUT thing isn’t part of that.

nohat

@tchrist yeah, my "back rounded" vowels are a lot more forward and unrounded

tchrist

@nohat They do not have /ɔ/ or /ɒ/. Maybe they do not have much /ʊ/ either.

We got into a classic "yes I can hear the difference if I work for it, but I really never notice that sort of thing" discussion.

I wonder whether this is going to force a compensating shift somewhere in the phoneme set.

nohat

@tchrist well the cot/caught merger is pretty widespread throughout the U.S.

MετάEd

Semper ubi sub ubi.

user19161

21:07

Eine kleine Nachtmusik.

tchrist

But they only have the unrounded one. They have no roundedness at all. Both of hot dog have the FATHER vowel.

user19161

That's my favourite line when someone starts to say non-English.

tchrist

It’s one thing to merge 3 into 2, but is the cot–cought merger actually 3 into 1?

I have a question on this somewhere.

The thing is, now I remember my conversation with the Californian, and it was not about an "o" word, but more of a "u" word like you were talking about.

9

Q: Looking for a minimal triple

I am looking for a minimal triple for a particular set of phonemes. By minimal triple, I mean three actual English words that differ in one and only one phoneme between them. Examples therefore include: phony, tony, pony swim, swam, swum bad, bat, bath The three phonemes that must appear on...

pronunciation phonology phonemes rhotic minimal-pairs

I have a very distinctive /ɔ/ in dog, but I have the merger in hot.

The Californians seem "more merged".

They don’t do much rounding at all. Is this just the merger, or is it something more?

KitFox

-2

Q: What does it mean if you tell someone they have their name on their underwear?

What does it mean if you say to someone that they have their name on their underwear? If this is an insult what are they implying?

meaning idioms cultural-phrases

He's changed the focus of his question. In case you want to reopen it.

tchrist

Did you want us to reopen it?

She ran away from my question again. :(

MετάEd

21:19

@JasperLoy Minute Waltz.

We all live in a yellow subroutine.

MετάEd

21:45

@tchrist Umbrellas are sunshades.

It's a parasol. If you want rain protection, use a parapluie.

Matt Эллен

22:07

there are many Shorter Oxford Dictionaries, or sods.

nohat

@tchrist it's not really 3 into 1. The FATHER-BOTHER merger is even more widespread in American English than the COT-CAUGHT merger. In fact, some major American dictionaries don't even have a separate symbol for the vowels in FATHER and BOTHER

Cerberus

22:52

@KitFox Who says nice is better?

What I said in that room should stay in that room...

I was never complaining.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So what's the problem with Sony? Their bloatware is too oppressive?

What does it do?

Isn't it also partly a matter of getting used to their weird ways?

Mahnax

Hi there.

Cerberus

I would certainly prefer stock Android, but I might be able to get over it for a truly better phone.

@Mahnax Yo.

Mahnax

@Cerberus How's things?

Cerberus

Good, just came back from a friend's.

Dinner.

And you?

> ... but this is not so for everyone.

Could you move so to a different position?

Without changing the sentence too much?

Mahnax

I'm pretty good. Going to a movie night later this evening.

Cerberus

22:57

Oh, great.

Which one?

Mahnax

And then tomorrow I'm having dinner with a friend.

@Cerberus No idea, but probably several.

Cerberus

Which friend?

Mahnax

A girl I know from school.

Cerberus

Several movies?

In a cinema?

Mahnax

Well, we'll be at my friend's house.

Cerberus

22:57

Ahh OK.

Mahnax

Sorry, I should have specified.

Cerberus

Make it a LotR marathon!

Mahnax

Been there, done that.

Cerberus

That's only, what, 10 hours?

Oh.

Mahnax

The Star Wars marathon is happening in a few weeks.

@Cerberus Something like that!

Cerberus

22:58

How many SW films are there?

Mahnax

Six.

Cerberus

Oops.

How long are they?

Mahnax

The total length is 13.5 hours.

Cerberus

Oh, my.

Is that even fun?

Mahnax

When you're with the right people, it is.

Cerberus

22:59

But it's so long!

Mahnax

That's the point!

Cerberus

But but.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…