English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MετάEd

15:08

0

Q: "40-50 years old" vs. "40-50 year olds" when referring to a group

In formal research, which is more correct, and why: the group of 40-50 years old OR the group of 40-50 year olds In any case the phrase in bold is to be treated as a noun only, as in: The middle group of executives, ie. 40-50 years old is well balanced.... Without a range, the hyphena...

Don't we have a question somewhere that authoritatively deals with the problem of plurals, talks about headwords and so on?

Robusto

Also, since when has correctness been a relative quality? One is either correct or one is not. We must hold the line on this.

KitFox

@MετάEd 40 foot drop?

16

Q: Pluralization rule for "five-year-old children", "20 pound note", "10 mile run"

Why are year, pound and mile in the singular form in the phrases below? five-year-old children 20 pound note 10 mile run Is that because they're acting as adjectives, which are always invariable in English? Is it incorrect to say... five-years-old children? 20 pounds note? 10 miles run?

grammatical-number measuring-units

Maybe?

tchrist

You can have a forty-year-old man, or a fifty-year-old man, or forty-to-fifty-year-old men -- or even forty- to fifty-year-old men -- and who might be said to be forty to fifty years old.

KitFox

What's with the double dashes?

tchrist

Those are double hyphens.

To create a single em dash.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:17

@tchrist Who are you and what have you done with the real tchrist?

2

Robusto

But all it creates is an em dash that's broken in the middle.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Or maybe "What happened to your normal computer"

tchrist

This is not my computer.

@Kit knows, but she is not allowed to say because she is bound by the Moderator Agreement. She cannot even say that she knows.

RegDwighт

@Robusto all it creates is a vertical pipe that's horizontal.

Robusto

A busted vertical pipe that's horizontal.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:20

@Robusto depends on your phont.

RegDwighт

¦

Robusto

|

RegDwighт

I think it's called the broken bar.

Robusto

You call it broken; I call it busted.

Like you. You're busted, dude. Give it up.

RegDwighт

You will call anything busty if we let you.

tchrist

15:21

U+007C != U+00A6.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwighт hell, he even calls himself Ro-bust(y)-o

tchrist

busted

RegDwighт

@tchrist != ≠ ≠

That's Katakana for "Something Ki Ki". It also fell over a bit.

tchrist

use overload "≠" => \&not_num_eq;

Codepoints being of course numeric in nature.

You really cannot tell a C programmer he cannot use != for what he uses it for. It bothers him.

Unless he uses it on string. Then he is in trouble, because he is comparing addresses not contents.

awaits the kitscoriation

RegDwighт

tchrist

15:26

Someone has way too much time on their hands.

Or wrists.

RegDwighт

Commute.

tchrist

I see that nohat's 1/3 of the way closer to his Golden Ticky today. Perhaps Sunday shall be his Dancing Day.

Singorrado? Singorra? Hm. I see that the RAE offers up engorrarse if you ask for singorrar. But this has to do ni con gorros ni con gorras. Odd.

Oh right, it's desgorrarse. Hm. That seems different than just being without one. It requires an action.

KitFox

15:42

@RegDwighт I call it a broken pipe.

tchrist

SIGPIPE

tchrist

15:59

Wow, if this isn't licentious, I dunno what is.

KitFox

Disappointing.

tchrist

It doesn't seem as well-groomed as ours, but I haven't looked too hard.

There are a vigintillion tag wikis of ours that need descriptions, but I only feel like doing the ones that I can do without bugging others about. Is that so wrong?

MετάEd

16:17

@tchrist "Be bold."

Robusto

Another curiously timed Enlightened badge for Robusto.

10

A: What are the rules about using 'half of' with plural nouns?

You can use the "half of" with plural nouns most effectively when you add the definite article: Half of the users were women. Half of the men were Canadian. The reason for this is because you need to specify the group you are talking about. The definite article serves to limit the scop...

Not a bad answer, but why bump it over the top now?

Can it be that there is an Angel of Justice working tirelessly behind the scenes on my behalf?

KitFox

Someone who is upvoting 9s and 24s?

Robusto

Or, to take a more Calvinistic view, am I simply one of the elect?

@KitFox I've received a curious number of those bumps over the last couple of weeks or so.

KitFox

Like you need more badges.

Come to think of it, I've gotten a couple of those too.

Robusto

I don't need more badges. I need them all. gnashes teeth

KitFox

16:27

You can't get them all.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah. did you see the pic Reg posted the other day?

KitFox

Nope.

I just absorbed the thought through the ether.

Robusto

I expect the ripe badge-fruit to fall every couple of weeks or so, but not every day or every other day.

Matt Эллен

2 days ago, by RegDwighт

Robusto

Is there a date on that?

Matt Эллен

16:31

2012-10-24 10:01:23Z

he posted it when he took it AFAIK

Alenanno

Hello

Matt Эллен

Hello

KitFox

Hello

user19161

Hello! Fox and Orc.

KitFox

Together we are Forks.

Matt Эллен

16:36

Hiya @JasperLoy

Yeah! Forks are super

user19161

I prefer f*** to fork.

KitFox

Forks are more useful.

Matt Эллен

indeed

user19161

I use the spoon more.

user19161

Spoon and f*** actually go together, lol.

Matt Эллен

16:38

Forks are forxy

KitFox

tries to remember how to semi-join

Matt Эллен

I don't thik I've ever semi-joined. what is it?

tchrist

@Robusto Wow, the top page of badges is all silver and gold now, just like on SO. Somebody must be working really hard to make that happen.

Alenanno

@MattЭллен Looks like fun...

Matt Эллен

orly?

KitFox

16:43

Um. I join a table with a set of conditions...how do I explain it?

tchrist

reifies

KitFox

Join table on table.value = (other_table.value Or 6)

Or something like that.

So it includes the inner join plus part of possibly an outer join.

Matt Эллен

so it always joins?

KitFox

That's what I'm doing anyway. Not sure if that's an actual semi-join.

@MattЭллен Yes.

Probably.

tchrist

@Rob Oh never mind, I was looking at SO's, not ours. Drat.

Matt Эллен

16:45

hmmm, mabye I misread that

it joins if the other table == the table or the table == 6

Alenanno

@MattЭллен dunno lol

Robusto

@tchrist Pro Tip: You can tell you're on ELU when it says "English Language & Usage" at the top.

Also the colors change.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Returns all joined records plus all records with 6 regardless of joining.

So kind of like an outer join.

And kind of not.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox I see

tchrist

KitFox

16:47

@MattЭллен snaps fingers It should be an And and not Or.

No, wait. That's all joined 6s.

tchrist

When you mentioned badges, I flipped to my non-chat window and saw that. Forgot I wasn't "here".

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah

KitFox

It's not that important. I think I wiggled around it. It's just that I'm pretty sure I've done it before.

Alenanno

What are we talking about? I'm lost.

user19161

I'm always lost.

tchrist

16:49

@Robusto Somebody out there likes you. :) Whoda thunk?

user19161

@tchrist Must be someone who likes cigars or dreams.

tchrist

@JasperLoy You mean who dreams of liking cigars? A Clintonian!

user19161

@tchrist By the way, do you know why I mentioned cigars and dreams? I will tell you if you are not sure.

tchrist

Rob is always handing out cigars.

Mar 28 at 14:46, by Robusto

MOAR CIGARS!

KitFox

@MattЭллен OK, I got it. It was Table.PKey = OtherTable.FKey Or OtherTable.FKey = 0.

It either joins or returns all rows.

Matt Эллен

16:54

@KitFox oh right. I thought that's what you were doing already :D

KitFox

:D

user19161

@tchrist It is really because "Robusto" is a cigar brand and the red character you see means dream in Japanese and Chinese.

Matt Эллен

oh, no, I see, other table's key not the table's key

tchrist

Jul 28 '11 at 19:12, by Robusto

@JasperLoy — Ce n'est pas un cigare. C'est un rêve.

See, he can be as diacritical as anybody when he wants to be.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Yes. Right.

tchrist

16:57

The dog is going to Be Not Pleased.

user19161

@tchrist National Bank of Paris!

Mitch

@Carlo_R.: Hi Carlo!

tchrist

Now, that is unkind.

user19161

@Mitch First time I see you saying hi to Carlo.

tchrist

@JasperLoy He isn't. He's soliloquizing.

Mitch

16:59

@JasperLoy I've said Hi before to him.

@tchrist well, not on purpose. I just don't think Carlo is able to respond.

But we can include him in the conversation anyhow.

user19161

Anyway @carlo I see you have been suspended. Can you still chat?

tchrist

Tsk.

You are all very mean.

I shall have no part of it.

Mitch

@Jasper, apropos of nothing...where did you gt your new avatar? so small it looks nice though.

@tchrist ??

Alenanno

@JasperLoy He was?

Didn't know that.

user19161

@Mitch You must have not refreshed because it is now the default one! Anyway the previous one was from avatarsdb.com, I get them all there except the blue one which is handmade.

Matt Эллен

17:02

@Alenanno you don't hang out here like you used to sob

user19161

@tchrist No, I was not being mean, I really mean to ask him that.

Alenanno

@MattЭллен Eheh

user19161

Every time I type something that may seem mean, I ask myself "Am I being mean?" If the answer is no from the bottom of my heart, I type it. If it is, I avoid it.

Mitch

@JasperLoy oh. yeah. must be. the landscape is a nice change of pace. but so is the full on uniform color.

tchrist

@JasperLoy Jasper, if you keep that up, they're going to saint you on the wrong side of the grave.

Ice Box

17:04

@Mitch Why is the pronunciation of put and cut are so different???

user19161

If I want to be mean to someone who caused me great suffering, I will not use such words. I would say something like you mother f***er!

Mitch

@JasperLoy now when I see that you're not saying something, I think you're being mean.

@JasperLoy Yes. that is mean.

tchrist

Oh look, lots of new faces! Have you all already voted on this ne-plus-ultra fabulosity yet?

user19161

@Mitch Not really in another sense. Mean is only when you do something to hurt someone. If someone hurt you very badly, that is not considered hurting but a form of self-defence.

Noah

Hello

tchrist

17:06

@JasperLoy Mean means many meanie things.

Mitch

@IceBox Danged if I know. Probably some historical thing. I vaguely think I've read something about how they were at one time the same (or maybe I'm confusing that with 'great/grate' homonyms.

does anybody else know?

KitFox

@nohat would know.

user19161

@tchrist Yes, I was just pointing out various aspects of the matter. Very often I say something to add to the discussion and not to conflict with what has been said.

KitFox

If you said put like cut, it would be putt.

Ice Box

If any one knows then please suggest.

Mitch

17:07

@JasperLoy you can hurt somebody by -not- telling them something like "Hey, the rope holding up that anvil above your head is about to break."

it would be mean to not tell them that.

tchrist

@IceBox Do you mean the verbs?

user19161

@Mitch Or even better, hey your head is about to break!

Ice Box

@tchrist Whatever...

Mitch

@IceBox The best answer is that English spelling is chaotic and that there's no rule, so knowing -why- doesn't really help.

@tchrist there are non-verb 'cut' and 'put'?

@JasperLoy At that point it is too late.

tchrist

Of course there is.

Mitch

17:10

meanie

Matt Эллен

a cut of meat for example

Mitch

'put' as in a bet?

KitFox

Put is Germanic and cut is Scandinavian?

Mitch

oh

tchrist

No.

Both are from OE.

Mitch

17:10

but they'er all pronounced the same.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox scandinavian or french

according to EOL

tchrist

Which is both Germanic and Scandinavian, kinda.

There is actually some mystery here.

Mitch

not like 'bow' which is pronounced and spelled ten different ways for both the same and different meanings.

KitFox

Etymonline does not give O.E. for cut.

Mitch

@tchrist which 'which'?

tchrist

17:11

cut /kʌt/, v. Found in end of 13th c., and in common use since the 14th c., being the proper word for the action in question, for which OE. used sníðan, ceorfan. The phonology is doubtful; the early variants cutte, kitte, kette, with pa. pple. cut, kyt, kit, kett, are parallel to the early variants of shut, OE. scyttan, and point to *cyttan, kytten (from *cutian) as the original form, an earlier y /y/, having here, as in shut and other words, given later u now /ʌ/.
The word is not recorded in OE. (nor in any WGer. dialect), and there is no corresponding verb in Romanic. Mod. Norwegian kutte…

They are guessing on cut, as in fact, it is "not recorded in OE".

But if cutian is real, then it corresponds to *putian > put.

Mitch

but is it pronounced regularly? or is 'put' the odd one?

KitFox

@tchrist Where do you get that?

I've got late O.E. putung from Etymonline.

Mitch

He typed it off the top of his head.

@KitFox Oh..my pharmacist has something for that.

KitFox

Har har.

tchrist

put /pʊt/, v.1 Etymology: Late OE. putian (? pūtian), represented C. 1050 by the vbl. sb. putung (? pūt-), putting; thence early ME. pūten and ? puten, later putten, putt, put. Beside this, late OE. had potian (11th c.), ME. pōten (see pote v.), and potten; also, OE. pȳtan (repr. by pýtan út in the OE. Chron., MS. Fr. (12th c.), anno 796, and út ápýtan, put out, thrust out, Numbers xvi. 14), which app. gave southern ME. puiten, puyte (= pǖte), and may even have been the source of the late ME. pytten, pitten, pyt, pit.

user19161

17:14

When did ha ha become har har?

Ice Box

@KitFox Yes ofcourse he knew it.

Mitch

I was reading the 'notes from a field biologist'...lots of icky nature things that sounds just like that.

KitFox

@JasperLoy It is a different kind of "ha ha."

tchrist

@KitFox "Late OE. putian (? pūtian), represented C. 1050 by the vbl. sb. putung (? pūt-), putting"

Mitch

@JasperLoy those brits pronounce things funny. like 'lurve' for if you really like someone.

Matt Эллен

17:15

@Mitch cut, hut, tut, smut, shut. I would say put is irregular

KitFox

@tchrist Yes. I gathered that from your text wall.

tchrist

NB: "Prof. Sievers thinks that the stem-vowel in OE. pȳtan (:-*pūtjan) was certainly long, and in putian probably so, and suggests that the ME. shortening of the vowel was carried over from the pa. t. and pa. pple. pytte, putte from pȳt-te, pūt-te. "

It may have been a difference in vowel length.

Mitch

@MattЭллен smut/shut/hut are all germanic. cut we don't know.

KitFox

Not to mention putt.

Matt Эллен

@Mitch but the pronunciation is the same, unlike put. that's what I meant by irregular

KitFox

17:17

Put, foot.

Matt Эллен

soot

KitFox

Hmm.

Mitch

@MattЭллен oh..right.

Noah

@Mitch ORIGIN Middle English (probably existing, although not recorded, in Old English); probably of Germanic origin and related to Norwegian kutte and Icelandic kuta ‘cut with a small knife,’ kuti ‘small blunt knife.’

Mitch

@KitFox book roof.

user19161

17:18

Quiz time: what does RSTLNE remind you of?

Mitch

also putz has the vowel of cut.

KitFox

@Mitch Yes, except for roof.

@JasperLoy Wheel of Fortune.

Alenanno

@JasperLoy R. L. Stine

Mitch

@KitFox I meant those sound different (for some people)

user19161

@KitFox Ding!

user19161

17:20

@Alenanno No idea who that is.

KitFox

@Mitch Huh, really? Book with a long vowel?

Mitch

@JasperLoy Really? WofF? that doesn't even make a partial word.

KitFox

@Mitch Five most common consonants and the most common vowel.

Alenanno

@JasperLoy Ever read Goosebumps?

R. L. Stine

Robert Lawrence Stine (born October 8, 1943), known as R. L. Stine, and Jovial Bob Stine, is an American writer. Stine, who is called the "Stephen King of children's literature," is the author of hundreds of horror fiction novels, including the books in the Fear Street, Goosebumps, Rotten School, Mostly Ghostly, and The Nightmare Room series. Some of his other works include a Space Cadets trilogy, two Hark gamebooks, and dozens of joke books. R. L. Stine's books have sold over 400 million copies as of 2008. Biography Stine was born in Columbus, Ohio on October 8, 1943 to Jewish pare...

Mitch

@KitFox book and put have the same vowel for me, and not the same vowel as roof/root

RegDwighт

17:20

@tchrist you should switch to promoting this one now. If only to enrage @Kit.

KitFox

I thought you liked me, @Reg.

RegDwighт

Why stop now?

KitFox

Is this what you like? To see me all kerfuffled?

user19161

@Alenanno I stopped reading fiction after middle school.

Mitch

@KitFox not L. the usual order is etaonrishd or...oh without vowels. but L looks out of place.

Alenanno

17:21

@JasperLoy So?

RegDwighт

@KitFox that's the only Kit I know.

KitFox

miffed

Noah

@KitFox I like you

Mitch

classic

scene in star wars, in the millenium falcon.

RegDwighт

Okay okay. Let's settle for promoting this instead.

Friends again?

user19161

17:24

@Noah I like you too Noah.

Noah

@RegDwighт gonna give you -1 just to enrage you

RegDwighт

I would like to see that. On a deleted answer that's not mine.

KitFox

Jar of pineapple on my desk.

MετάEd

@Mitch etaoinshrdlu?

RegDwighт

Didn't know Kit was a cannibalian.

MετάEd

17:27

Canniballer?

RegDwighт

You've got some canniballs to say that.

MετάEd

Cannabite?

RegDwighт

No you can't bite.

MετάEd

@RegDwighт Round here we can whup ass.

RegDwighт

makes notes on map

KitFox

17:29

I'm not a pineapple.

I like them though. Maybe too much.

Alenanno

@KitFox You're not?? feels disappointed

KitFox

Sorry, honey.

Alenanno

I think I'll manage to sleep tonight though.

user19161

I am a banana.

user19161

I have probably eaten over 9000 bananas!

RegDwighт

17:31

In a way she is. Not pineapples are all rough, ready, and country-like.

KitFox

laughs I'm not sure what that would sound like.

RegDwighт

@KitFox english.stackexchange.com/questions/7469/…

KitFox

Rootin'-est tootin'-est

Alenanno

@RegDwighт lol

KitFox

Hawt. But I don't have international calling on my Skype.

RegDwighт

17:33

Make it an R call.

user19161

I don't even have skype.

user19161

I communicate only via email, my favourite form.

RegDwighт

It's on the Internet. You're on the Internet. Thus, you have it.

Oh sorry, forgot the QED.

Alenanno

@KitFox You could use Viber.

RegDwighт

I must be off for just a second to eat pizza.

KitFox

17:34

@Alenanno I don't think my husband would approve.

Alenanno

Pizzaaaaaaa.

@KitFox Approve of using an app?

KitFox

Uh.

dodges question

Alenanno

viber.com

KitFox

Look! Shiny things!

Alenanno

¬_¬

lol

KitFox

17:36

I was making a joke.

Alenanno

Uhm, ok... sceptical glance

@KitFox Ah by the way, that question... A user is going to fix it so it's on topic for Linguistics.

The one I asked about today.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Good idea, thanks.

Alenanno

Hello @simchona

KitFox

@Alenanno scratches head

That sorta rings a bell.

Alenanno

-1

Q: Word order "this is not so"

I am not a native speaker of English, but I study English and Dutch. I wrote down the following sentence: ... but this is not for everyone so. I realise that this might be translated to literally from Dutch: ... maar dit is niet voor iedereen zo. But, the thing is: in Dutch you can ch...

word-order

That one. :P

KitFox

17:39

Oh right.

The one we talked about for like an hour.

Alenanno

Yep.

KitFox

Gotta talk to the bossman. brb

Alenanno

Gotcha!

Robusto

17:51

Skype is actually useful for cooperative gaming.

tchrist

Wow. Did I just do that?

user19161

Non Sequitur strikes!

tchrist

@Sathya Thank you.

user19161

Wait, is there any reason for deleting the messages @sathya?

tchrist

I'd've done it myself if I had noticed. It was a wild mouse paste when focus shifted unnoticed by me.

@Jasper I requested it.

user19161

17:56

Oh OK.

Sathya

@tchrist welcome :-) @JasperLoy as requested by @Tch

user19161

@Sathya Oh OK. I thought someone got pissed.

tchrist

I need a better cat to heard my mice.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…