English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

alphabet

00:12

@SmokeDetector A curious false positive.

Robusto

@alphabet Smokey has frequent false positives.

Vikas

02:04

@Mitch I didn't get that 🤣

Cerberus

@alphabet I cannot imagine ˌwɑːl.

Criggie

Question: What's more insulting between "grávl bike" or "gwabbel bike" or "gwabelle bike" ?

I'm being smart-arsed to a cow-orker who just bought a gravel bike.

...and are there any other variations ?

Cerberus

02:22

1.

Looks very similar to @Robusto.

alphabet

@Criggie I looked this up and...what is a gravel bike for? The target market seems to be urbanites who want to pretend that they go on off-road adventures by buying a bike that technically makes that possible.

Like how 90% of Jeep owners never actually go off-road with theirs.

Anyway I would respond by brutally mocking your coworker's obvious, and obviously unsuccessful, attempt to seem like a more interesting person.

Cerberus

02:37

2.

Mitch

@Vikas I was making nonsense out of the sounds b,d,n,g that you used and in the message you replied to.(I kind of thought that's what you were doing too though)

Also l.

Cerberus

3.

Baad!

I just had no idea about the place, I did also consider the correct place.

But the year...

I guess I misled myself about the year, I knew it couldn't be what I guessed, stupid.

alphabet

02:53

@Cerberus Are you feeling better?

Cerberus

Yes.

Only a little bit of residual coughing/mucus.

And maybe my smell isn't 100% yet.

alphabet

That's good.

Cerberus

Thank you.

4.

Criggie

It's a bike design that lies somewhere between a true road bike (speed on sealed roads at the cost of comfort) and a MTB (off road riding)
So its a bike with drop handlebars, and wider range gearing. Definitely has the space for larger/wider tyres for grip on loose surfaces like dirt and gravel.
Not intended for true off-road riding, more for paths and tracks.

The concept gets some ridicule for "being so task-specific"

But some people who are all about the speed would look down on anything that isn't speed

alphabet

@Criggie In six months, ask if he's used it for anything other than ordinary roads except during the first week after he bought it.

That's the right way of being smart-assed.

Criggie

03:03

and offer to buy it for $10 ?

I'm too tall for most bikes sadly - if I ride small bikes they tend to break in 6-24 months :-\

alphabet

Like with boats: the two happiest days of a gravel-biker's life are the day he bought the gravel bike and the day he sold it.

At least I assume that.

Really it pays for itself; it means you can sell your house on a paved road and buy a much cheaper one on a gravel road.

Cerberus

5.

#WhenTaken #190 (04.09.2024)

I scored 844/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 498 km - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 181 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 349.8 metres - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 1177 km - 🗓️ 25 yrs - ⚡ 101 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 54 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 195 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 11 km - 🗓️ 15 yrs - ⚡ 169 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Number 3 cost me dearly.

Criggie

@alphabet That's kinda the problem - gravel bikes are hecking expensive

alphabet

@Criggie Make a map of all the gravel roads in a 10-mile radius and ask which ones he's planning on visiting.

Criggie

03:20

I just want a sarky name for use on Slack :)

alphabet

Dirt roads, too. You know, the kind where you build a shed and write angsty things about industrialists and fake the return address on outgoing mail.

Alexander

04:00

@alphabet good morning or good afternoon. Nice to see you. Can we talk a bit if you don't mind?

Cerberus

I don't think it is good manners to ask to ask or ask to talk, in a chat room. If there is something you want to ask or tell someone, just do it.

2

Robusto

@alphabet That's not it at all. Gravel bikes are for riding the many backwoods and firebreak roads that exist in (mainly) rural areas. (Note: There are plenty of these in the more rural areas of New England as well.) A road bike is too unstable on these and a mountain bike is too slow (though it can handle severely rutted roads better than a gravel bike).

@Criggie Cycling is expensive these days. Almost everyone in my club has at least two bikes, and some more than that. I personally have two road bikes and a mountain bike. I've considered a gravel bike, but I like to go faster than that, and so I stick to roads. It's also easier to get a good long ride with others on the road.

Alexander

@Cerberus thanks. For instance, I have recently listened to a series of national anthems. However, I don't quite understand what "Thy choicest gifts in store" means. Maybe just a partial, but not a full comprehension. Hmm, do they change their anthem every time when they get a new monarch of a different sex? It seems British queens were rare (I just know five of them in total plus one suspicious/doubtful. Oh, probably illegitimate... that is I wanted to say).

Cerberus

Sure, you can ask that in chat.

CowperKettle

Gravel bikes. Never heard of them.

Robusto

04:08

There's a ride in my locale that goes up the pavement on one side of a mountain up to where the pavement ends, then continues on gravel and often rutted dirt around the back of the mountain, then emerges back on pavement and down and around the other side of the mountain and on back to the front where you started. About 84 miles.

Cerberus

And don't address a question to a specific person unless it is an extension of a conversation you had with him before, or if you know him well and know he will be interested.

As for your question, it could benefit from proving more context, a larger part of the song.

Robusto

The only way to do that ride is on a gravel bike, because you don't want to ride 45 of those miles on a mountain bike, and you can't do the dirt parts on a road bike.

Alexander

National Anthem of The United Kingdom - "God Save The Queen"

►

Thy choicest gifts in store on her be pleased to pour.

Cerberus

More context.

Alexander

A zillion of questions from me, of course.

Cerberus

04:11

Try to empathise with the other person. What would be nice for the answerer to read and know?

Alexander

God save our gracious King!
Long live our noble King!
God save the King!
Send him victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the King!

Thy choicest gifts in store,
On him be pleased to pour;
Long may he reign:
May he defend our laws,
And ever give us cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the King!

Cerberus

That is better.

Alexander

Personally I would address a respectable person in plural rather than in singular. That's my first observation.

Cerberus

Only kings, not gods.

Alexander

Secondly, I thought "choice" is a noun; thus, it shouldn't have any degrees of comparison. Maybe I am totally wrong!

Cerberus

04:13

Be pleased to = decide to.

Alexander

Thirdly, I always thought the UK has shops instead of stores.

Cerberus

"God, may you decide to poor your most exquisite gifts on our king."

alphabet

@Robusto Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling most of the people who buy gravel bikes don't live in those rural areas. Bikes aren't a very practical mode of transportation there.

Cerberus

In store = in stock, saved among your things

Choice can be an adjective, perhaps from "of choice". It means exquisite, special, precious.

Robusto

@alphabet That's a possibility, but what's to prevent someone from putting the gravel bike on a rack and heading for the trails, which aren't very far from Boston.

alphabet

04:18

@Alexander choice (adj.)

Robusto

Also, taking my son as an example, he finds a bike very convenient for commuting from his home in Watertown to east Cambridge every day. He gets there a lot faster than if he drove his car.

alphabet

@Alexander Definition of in store

Cerberus

@alphabet I think Dictionary.com's definitions are better, because they connect more to the broader sense of the word, and to its history.

dictionary.com/browse/%20choice

alphabet

@Robusto Indeed. But I'm guessing he doesn't travel on unpaved roads.

Dannyu NDos

(Sorry to interrupt, but) I don't get why most Americans hesitate to learn IPA.

CowperKettle

04:24

@Robusto How is a gravel bike different?

Cerberus

@Alexander Then why do you say this here?

Even Jews, huh?

Dannyu NDos

Is the Arpabet the best they can do?

Robusto

@alphabet No, but what does that have to do with it? Others who like to go off-road do.

CowperKettle

@DannyuNDos "The American Psychological Association recently published new research proving that mental exertion leads to negative feelings and irritation. The study was published Monday in the APA's monthly journal, Psychological Bulletin."

alphabet

"Every nation has good people, even Gypsies and especially Jews."

Yikes. I'm not even sure what to say about this.

Robusto

04:26

@CowperKettle They're similar to road bikes, but with room for wider tires. Also lower gearing, and sometimes only a single chain ring. My road bikes have 32mm tires (width), while a gravel bike will have 35 up to even 45 mm tires.

alphabet

@DannyuNDos Do they do so more than speakers of other dialects/languages? There are a couple American dictionaries that use non-IPA-based systems, mostly because they came into existence before the IPA did.

Robusto

And with that I'm off. G'night folks.

CowperKettle

@Alexander Romanians attacked you and cut your tonsils?

@Robusto Ah! So they are like fatbikes

Fatbikes also have 3 to 4 cm tires

Cerberus

@Alexander I don't want to see glorification of your own murder of civilians here, "we are happy we murdered a civilian" is not acceptable.

You will be suspended.

CowperKettle

Memorizing John Clare's "November" during work

Cerberus

04:34

Very nice.

Dannyu NDos

@CowperKettle Is that Samsung Galaxy?

The phone, I mean.

alphabet

@Cerberus I know your opinions about political correctness, but can we agree that openly stating your hatred for particular ethnicities crosses a line?

Cerberus

It is stupid.

It didn't seem worth taking seriously.

A totally random message.

CowperKettle

@DannyuNDos No, it's a POCO

Xiaomi POCO something

I bought it on the cheap from a schoolboy via Avito

Dannyu NDos

South Korea never imports Chinese smartphones, so I've never heard about them.

CowperKettle

04:41

On the cheap because the camera is not working

Dannyu NDos

If the camera isn't working, you might've bought a copycat.

CowperKettle

@DannyuNDos I have an oldish Samsung Galaxy

@DannyuNDos Wow. Are there such things?

Who would go for the hassle for as little as 4000 rubles

Dannyu NDos

I mean, remember when there was a copycat of iPhone 5 named "Goophone"? That's what's happening in China. Unsure whether they're sold outside of China tho.

Criggie

10:33

Cycling is cheap. Buying new bikes is expensive.
Thats why I ride shitty used bikes :) The most expensive one I own was $150 and is a 1980's steel road bike, rigged with mudguards etc for wet day rides.
My "nice" road bike is a 1994 specialised s-works, cost me $100 NZ.

I did once buy a tandem for $600, but it wasn't for me so I sold it again.

Mitch

12:53

@Alexander "do they change their anthem every time when they get a new monarch of a different sex?" - Yes.

God Save the King

"God Save the King" (alternatively "God Save the Queen" when the British monarch is female) is the national anthem of the United Kingdom and the royal anthem of each of the British Crown Dependencies, one of two national anthems of New Zealand, and the royal anthem of most Commonwealth realms. The author of the tune is unknown and it may originate in plainchant, but an attribution to the composer John Bull has sometimes been made. In countries not part of the British Empire, the tune of "God Save the King" has provided the basis for various patriotic songs, though still generally connected with...

Everything stays the same except for references to gender which change accordingly.

Mitch

13:08

I have no actual knowledge of this, but I highly suspect that, since the song was adopted in 1745, the gender was modified when Victoria acceded in 1837 , then Edward VII in 1901, then after a few males Elizabeth II in 1952. They were definitely modified to male in 2022 when Charles III acceded.

@Alexander In none of that song is any address made to the king/queen. It's all imperatives where there is no singular or plural.

But suppose there were second person addressing. In English there is no distinction in grammar between singular and plural second person (It is always 'you'). Most people think of 'you' as singular and that using 'you' for plural is just a general use. But historically, 'you' is both the plural and polite form, and over he years, people tended to be more polite in address and use the polite form 'you' for the singular also.

In the past, 'thou', 'thee', and 'thy' were the historical singular forms. Not impolite, but not -as- polite as 'you' back then. Nowadays, 'you' is neither polite nor impolite.

Most people nowadays think of 'thou/thee/thy' as hyperformal, hyperpolite, or religious because they only hear it in religious contexts (because the King James Version of the Bible, written back in the 1500's, used these and expressions from the Bible using them have become fixed.

474

Q: Did English ever have a formal version of "you"?

Off the top of my head, Danish "De" (practically never used), German "Sie", Chinese "您", French "vous", Spanish "usted" are formal ways of addressing someone, especially if one isn't familiar with the addressee. Did English ever have this? It sounds as though Proto-Indo-European might have had th...

(one of the highest voted ELU questions ever!)

@Alexander But you may well be asking an entirely different question. "I would address a respectable person in plural rather than in singular."

maybe you're saying instead of 'he' or 'she' out of respect you'd say 'they'.

Then it's sort of presumptuous to say 'he' vs 'she' and you should just simplify and use the 'singular' they'.

Robusto

13:25

@CowperKettle Not quite. Fat bikes have much huskier tires than gravel bikes.

Mitch

This avoids the error of ascribing the wrong sex (makes necessary the change in lyrics for every change in gender of the monarch).

which I personally prefer so as not to incur all the charges for changing stationary and printed song books and such. Such a hassle.

@Robusto I remember when there was just 'a bike'.

Robusto

@Mitch So do I.

I prefer today's bikes.

Mitch

Two wheels, no gears, braking by reversing.

Robusto

Would you still want to be driving a '58 Ford today? Or would you rather have all the great features of today's cars?

@Mitch Yep, that's what I grew up on.

Mitch

You could ride on gravel, on grass, on the street, through mud. The only thing stopping you was intelligence.

Robusto

13:30

Wordle 1,174 3/6

⬛🟨⬛🟩⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@Mitch Which we had precious little of at 8.

Well, maybe intelligence, but entirely lacking in wisdom.

Mitch

Making ramps to evel-knievel off of, visits to the ER, bigger ramps and a mattress, the concept of being grounded.

Robusto

Which is why I did my first 50-mile ride at age 11. I made it, but it took eight hours and made me and my friend sick.

Mitch

I mean the concept of being thrown to the ground repeatedly. Parents never found out.

Not after the cast was taken off.

Robusto

Feb 11, 2012 at 2:36, by Robusto

When I was eight I got up on the roof of our house with a sheet. I gathered the sheet at the corners and held it over my head and jumped off. I was fucking astonished that I didn't float to the ground with the sheet puffed out as my parachute.

Mitch

@Robusto It worked so well in imagination.

Robusto

13:34

It did. Unfortunately, that's the only place it worked.

Mitch

@Robusto Theres a tradeoff. Some of the features are nice... some are too expensive or break to early.

@Robusto I mean what exactly was the problem? We could probably figure out what to fix.

First, you probably need to separate out the corners of the sheet to get a better spread.

Robusto

@Mitch Well, I can remember driving from Houston to Chicago non-stop in a '64 VW that could only do about 65 mph. AM radio only. It was an ordeal.

Mitch

And then maybe you should start off higher, to give time for the air to fill it out.

alphabet

@Robusto Everyone knows you gotta have fallen for at least 50 feet before the parachute starts working.

Mitch

Also, mattress and bike helmet.

Robusto

13:38

@alphabet Everyone but an 8-year-old.

Mitch

@Robusto where did you grow up?

Robusto

@Mitch Lake County, IL

The northern suburbs of Chicago.

Mitch

Oh close to TC

alphabet

@Robusto Also you need to use the good percale sheets; with the cheap stuff, you might as well be holding damp cardboard.

Robusto

@Mitch TC?

Mitch

13:40

I have a relative who, as part of the Army, did low altitude parachute drops from planes.

It would nice to know what altitude is considered 'low'. I'm sure I've asked, but it's not as low as the roof of a house.

Robusto

BTW, the sheet parachute idea worked great for cartoon characters too.

Mitch

@Robusto Our local Tolkien and font expert.

Robusto

@Mitch I think the minimum for paratroopers in WWII was 800 ft.

Mitch

@Robusto That could be for the safety of the planes too.

Robusto

@Mitch Oh, yes. It's been mentioned in chat before. He was in Wisconsin, just across the border.

@Mitch Well, they wanted to release them at the minimum dropping height so they'd spend less time in the air. Their chutes were opened by straps linked to the plane.

Mitch

13:44

OK, maybe a more circular sheet? Would mom have noticed if you cut up a sheet? And try jumping off from the third story.

Robusto

@Mitch "Would mom have noticed ...?" Have you met your mother? Moms have a sixth sense about how you have fucked up.

Mitch

@Robusto Yeah, I \'m just saying that maybe that was the minimum height for the parachutists safety, or it could have been the minimum altitude for the plane. (ie maybe the parachutists could have been lower but it wouldn't have been good for the plane).

How high is 800 ft though?

4 stories?

Robusto

Four stories is about 40 ft.

Mitch

@Robusto OK so a little off.

Robusto

So 800 ft. is about 80 floors up.

Mitch

13:46

So you'll have to find a taller house.

Robusto

Yes.

Mitch

Do you think the mom at some really tall building would notice?

Robusto

It's possible she would.

Mitch

We'd have to do it when she's in the other room.

or on an errand.

Robusto

What if you can't get the window open?

Mitch

13:48

We should be prepared.

@Robusto Good question.

Breaking it would make a noise that might attract attention. So, no, not that.

We've come so far. Let's not back down now.

If you wrap a towel around your arm, I think that would do it quietly.

Robusto

@Mitch Maybe it would be fun to slide down the trash chute from the 80th floor.

Mitch

@Robusto That would be totally doable. But I've seen what people throw down those chutes. Gross.

Maybe if we get a lot of bubble wrap.

a lot.

Robusto

Bubble wrap would be fun. Also fun to pop it on the way down. A twofer!

Mitch

I've been saving up, but I only have enough for arms and legs.

@Robusto I got a GoPro! Let's do it!

Robusto

@Mitch You could wear heavier clothes on the middle. Like your confirmation or barmitzvah suit.

@Mitch Sweet. This is going to be awesome!

Mitch

13:57

Crap. Zoom meeting in 3 minutes. Maybe next week.

Robusto

Sure.

Mitch

But...

We can always just drop the gopro down the laundry chute first to see what it might look like.

total darkness for 2 minutes

ending with a splat and cracked lens

Robusto

@Mitch This is wisdom.

@Mitch Better try it first with one of mom's vases, just to make sure it won't break.

alphabet

14:13

@Robusto And then you get free trash at the end!

Robusto

@alphabet Spoken like a true raccoon.

alphabet

@Robusto How sad that some buildings don't take raccoon accessibility into consideration when designing their waste management systems. People even pay for that fancy urban composting when there are hungry raccoons right nearby.

Robusto

@alphabet On the other hand, those are right outside in the open.

alphabet

@Robusto Yes, but consider this: no municipality in the entire US mandates that trash receptacles be accessible to raccoons with disabilities.

Robusto

More's the pity.

Robusto

15:00

Daily Octordle #955
🕛3️⃣
6️⃣9️⃣
🕚8️⃣
4️⃣5️⃣
Score: 58

Daily Sequence Octordle #955
3️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 69

Robusto

15:17

Sep. 5, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ 💔 ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 1990

Vikas

16:36

What do we call a series like 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2?

Mitch

16:52

@Vikas It's OEIS A000034

Or 1 + (n mod 2)

I have a feeling that's not what you were looking for.

Vikas

@Mitch Yes I need to do this in Blender. Can't do it.

@Mitch n is multiplied by value of mod 2?

Mitch

@Vikas no it is the modulus of n, módulo 2. Or the remainder when divided by 2.

Vikas

@Mitch Oh

Mitch

Or in C/C++ it's "1 + n%2"

Vikas

17:12

@Mitch Even if I'm not looking for it, it's not a waste. Someone could star it.

Robusto

17:53

The On-Line Encyclopedia of Integer Sequences

2

@Vikas Correct.

I've pinned that information for future reference, because it is valuable.

And a tip of the hat to @Mitch.

Robusto

18:44

> Yesterday, December 7, 1941—a date which will live in infamy—the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan. —Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Can you imagine Trump doing this speech?

Conrado

I have to imagine that the speech lasts much longer, and, perhaps, says much less.

Robusto

> They got me out of bed this morning ... I mean early ... this afternoon actually ... I'm an early riser, but sometimes I take naps, you know ... and they told me the Japanese were bombing ... the Japanese had bombed one of our islands ... it's a beautiful island, I think I may have a golf course there ... I only have the best properties, only the best ... but now my golf course and the rest of the island is probably wrecked ... lotta damage, lotta damage ... and nobody knew it was coming.
They flew planes and ships ... off of ships ... nobody knew you could fly planes off of ships ... nob…

^ FDR Dec 7 1941 speech as given by Trump

jlliagre

@Robusto Nob indeed. Great speech!

Robusto

Merci.

jlliagre

Eloquentia perfecta

Sep. 5, 2024

T I G H T R O P E
✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ ✅ 🎉

My Score: 2350
I was lucky on a couple of questions.

alphabet

18:58

@Robusto He'd have bragged about how he "knew there was going to be an attack long before anyone called it an attack."

Robusto

He'd probably get around to that ... eventually. But I got tired of writing his speech.

alphabet

Then he'd talk about how he was going to "make a big beautiful deal" that "puts America first, just like the Germans are going to put Germany first."

Conrado

Also, "If I had been president, they never would've dared..."

When I was president, they never did anything like that...

jlliagre

19:17

Wordle 1,174 6/6

⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
⬛⬛🟨⬛🟨
🟨🟨🟨🟨⬛
🟨🟨🟩🟩⬛
🟨🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Daily Octordle #955
7️⃣6️⃣
🕐🕚
5️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
Score: 69

Daily Sequence Octordle #955
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 66

Mitch

19:39

@Robusto Nice, thanks! It looks great now. That's exactly what my hat was missing!

I have a feeling that's not what you were talking about.

My hat, that is.

Robusto

It isn't polite to talk about people's hats in chat, unless it's a metaphorical hat.

Strands #186
“Going underground”
🔵🟡🔵🔵
🔵🔵🔵

jlliagre

21:00

#WhenTaken #191 (05.09.2024)

I scored 911/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 1869 km - 🗓️ 5 yrs - ⚡ 148 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 3 km - 🗓️ 5 yrs - ⚡ 195 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 465 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 184 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 1 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 51 km - 🗓️ 9 yrs - ⚡ 184 / 200

https://whentaken.com

jlliagre

21:50

Strands #186
“Going underground”
🔵🔵🔵🟡
🔵🔵🔵

CowperKettle

23:37

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36618547

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…