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00:00
@Alexander The rule is: the longer the object is, the more likely it is that you put the "in" before the object. So "I let him in," but "I let in the cat that had been sitting outside the door for several hours." ("My cat" is short enough that I think "I let my cat in" is preferable.)
No, it stems to two primitive roots. The first root √ÑGOL is the same as in Noldor, the Gnomes or Deep Elves. It means deep knowledge or lore. The second one is √(N)DIL meaning friend or lover of someone or something, as in Elendil "Elf Friend" or his father Amandil "Lover of Aman=the Land of Blessed".
You have to run in rather rare circles for this to be self-evident. :)
But it was, and far easier to type that than the rest of it.
@Alexander The usual answer is to say that "God is omnipotent" does not mean "God can do X for any value of X."
> The son of Númenor's second King, Vardamir Nólimon, Nolondil was thus a grandson of Elros Tar-Minyatur the first King. He was the youngest of Vardamir's four children, and so was not in direct line for the Sceptre of Númenor. He had three children, Yávien, Oromendil and Axantur. Axantur's great-grandson Hallacar became consort to Queen Tar-Ancalimë, and so Nolondil's descendants eventually reconnected with the royal line of Númenor.
He was Elrond's grandnephew.
The royals always do intermarry within their own lines, don't they? :)
@CowperKettle Hate of coconuts??
@CowperKettle Is there any difference between a "mobilization" and a "draft"? Aren't both involuntary military service?
Or is mobilization just calling up the reserve forces?
The draft is for conscripts, so conscription of the untrained.
But the reserve is, in theory, trained already, just held back and perhaps not active.
American governors can mobilize their state's national guard and reserve in times of domestic emergency. And the American president can summon them for foreign use.
@M.A.R. Arise then, Sir Mar!
Sur-la-mer would make a fine name for a Persian knight, would it not? :)
00:38
@Criggie and you call yourself a ...
Wait..what do your call yourself?
I call myself 'me', but that's me. Literally.
@alphabet I could use some of that. I mean as a large language model I'm basically hallucinating all the time, and it's only by sheer luck (= stats) that my hallucinations.tend to match what normies often refer to as reality
I have some plans about learning tengwar (Elvish script) in the future, but it's probably simply too difficult for my brain. I know Latin, Cyrillic, Greek, Arabic (both Arabic and Persian), Hebrew (Hebrew and Yiddish), Georgian, Armenian, Devanagari (Hindi), Thai, Korean, Phoenician, Runic (elder Futhark) and Glagolitic scripts though...
01:26
okay, thanks. I've learned something.
Whether I remember it or not, is another question entirely.
@Mitch "I am a meat popsicle"
02:15
@Criggie oh pleased to meat you. I'm a bag of chemicals.
aren't we all?
70 % water by volume, I hear
@Mitch (it was a movie line, btw)
"They're Made Out of Meat" is a short story by American writer Terry Bisson. It was originally published in OMNI. It consists entirely of dialogue between two characters. Bisson's website hosts a theatrical adaptation. A film adaptation won the Grand Prize at the Seattle Science Fiction Museum's 2006 film festival. The story was collected in the 1993 anthology Bears Discover Fire and Other Stories, and has circulated widely on the Internet, which Bisson found "flattering". It has been quoted in cognitive, cosmological, and philosophical scholarship. == Plot == The two characters are intelligent...
yup - I got that reference too
@Mitch I took the Benadryl challenge and it opened my mind to the fact that all the walls are covered in angry spiders.
02:31
Benadryl? Cough syrup ?
That shit's nasty
Intentionally overdosing on diphenhydramine. Apparently "hallucinations of spiders" in particular is one of the common effects of this. No, I haven't actually tried it.
I like a nice serving of strong cheese for supper, on Friday or Saturday.
If I sleep in the next morning, I can have some pretty vivid and intense dreams which hang around a bit longer
If the alarm clock goes, its spoiled
and it drops in intensity if I do it too often
Just to be sure: you are joking, right? I refuse to believe this is real.
No I'm quite serious, this time.
Wut.
This has to be the placebo effect, no?
02:35
I dunno.
My mum's lasagne was the trigger - its basically cheese with a little meat
and I noticed the association. It has to be a natural wake-up though, but sunlight doesn't seem to stop the dreams.
The WOOOT WOOT of the alarm clock ruins it compeltely though
Apparently some people actually believe this, and one study claimed to back it up, but for obvious reasons it wasn't blinded: bbc.com/future/article/…
> There's no robust evidence that cheese causes nightmares – or, in fact, much that proves the theory wrong, either. But just the prevalence of this rumour could be enough to make it true, says Tore Nielson, professor of psychiatry at the University of Montreal and director of its dream and nightmare laboratory.
Though "milkthecow.com" might be biased
> "Just knowing that cheese affects nightmares could induce dreams, because people are suggestible," he says.
From the article both of us just linked.
02:38
"Dream and Nightmare Laboratory Director" <-- that's a job title and a half !
There's no way this is anything other than the power of suggestion. I can't imagine any possible mechanism for it.
shrug How come I noticed the effect before reading your links ?
Can't be a post-fact-suggestion, clearly
post-noticing-suggstion I suppose
Surely you heard about this phenomenon before you discovered it worked for you, no?
Either way, I cannot imagine this being real.
Not that I remember. I was probably a teenager, so well before the internet
@Alexander What is GT?
02:41
"GT" is Grand Touring
GT is a bike manufacturer
GT is Gin and Tonic, an alcoholic drink
-gt is Greater-Than, a parameter used in bash comparisons
.... that's all I got
Oh GT is Google Translate
Sometimes, I eat a bar of soap before bed to keep my dreams clean of any disturbing content.
Only Ivory soap, of course. It's gotta be as pure as possible.
@alphabet knowing you, that's eminently possible.
@Criggie This is the likely one.
GT is a Korean milk brand.
NVIDIA GT 1030 comes to my mind first.
02:46
@Criggie Aww thanks.
Also GT road.
The Grand Trunk Road (formerly known as Uttarapath, Sarak-e-Azam, Shah Rah-e-Azam, Badshahi Sarak, and Long Walk) is one of Asia's oldest and longest major roads. For at least 2,500 years it has linked Central Asia to the Indian subcontinent. It runs roughly 3,655 km (2,271 mi) from Teknaf, Bangladesh on the border with Myanmar west to Kabul, Afghanistan, passing through Chittagong and Dhaka in Bangladesh, Kolkata, Kanpur, Agra, Aligarh, Delhi, Amritsar in India, and Lahore, Rawalpindi, and Peshawar in Pakistan. The highway was built along an ancient route called Uttarapatha in the 3rd century...
Try eating a misbehaving gerbil if you want naughty dreams.
Definitely the second best use for those critters.
My dream last night featured dragons and math. I don't remember what they meant tho.
Spice up your dreams with a whole bottle of nutmeg.
02:51
AI generated submarine. This is so good!
Make them pain-free with 20 pills of Tylenol. If you don't like the taste, crush em up and mix em with vodka.
In the last few years, I have sometimes had dreams about the future, on the topic of futurology. If you dreamed about the future, it means it was a good night. The oculomotor nerve works. There is a chance to live at least a couple more years!

What have I not dreamed about! Lord, this is the topic of a separate novel! The richest palette of colors!

Nanorobots, teleporters... Chips implanted in the brain, when chess is played with the power of one's thoughts, using only neurons, the neural arc (I heard that as of 2024 this really happens: scientists have learned to implant chips in the bra
03:07
> scientists have learned to implant chips in the bra…
(see full text)
disappointment, right there....
One-armed versus one-legged is a form of cricket in which one team has cricketers with only one arm while the members of the other team only have one leg. There have been several matches of this sort, held for the annual benefit of the Greenwich pensioners – sailors pensioned off from the Royal Navy and resident at the Royal Hospital for Seamen at Greenwich. These sailors often lost limbs during naval service in the 18th century and so the teams were drawn from the ranks of the pensioners. In 1861, Charles Dickens reported a civilian match at Peckham Rye in his magazine, All the Year Round....
@Criggie I pack mine with potato chips. Looks realistic enough.
Mmmmm and you have snacks for later, too.
People might ask about the size change.
Of course, those scientists presumably mean Chips, i.e. clones of famed musician Chip Skylark.
03:24
Not the Skylark of Space?
THat book was old scifi
I think you have to have been born in the US within, like, a specific three-year time window to have any chance of getting that reference.
Its like the book version of schock movies
The Skylark of Space is a science fiction novel by American writer Edward E. "Doc" Smith, written between 1915 and 1921 while Smith was working on his doctorate. Though the original idea for the novel was Smith's, he co-wrote the first part of the novel with Lee Hawkins Garby, the wife of his college classmate and later neighbor Carl Garby. The novel starts as an edisonade, but turns into a space travel adventure when the characters go into deep space. The Skylark of Space is considered to be one of the earliest novels of interstellar travel and the first example of space opera. Originally serialized...
I'm sure it was written seriously
but now it reads really campy
huh Edisonade en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edisonade Another new word
03:39
There's a quantum physics notation called bra-ket notation.
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6 hours later…
09:58
Irreligion is the absence or rejection of religious beliefs or practices. It encompasses a wide range of viewpoints drawn from various philosophical and intellectual perspectives, including atheism, agnosticism, skepticism, rationalism, and secularism. These perspectives can vary, with individuals who identify as irreligious holding a diverse array of specific beliefs about religion or its role in their lives. According to the Pew Research Center's 2012 global study of 230 countries and territories, 16% of the world's population does not identify with any religion. A 2017 Worldwide Independent...
 
3 hours later…
12:42
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, mostly punctuation marks in body, repeating characters in title (185): Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ✏️‭ by Acf‭ on english.SE
@Criggie Anticholinergics can induce hallucinations in case of overdose. It's the same thing in nightshade and datura. Atropine, some drugs for benign prostatic hyperplasia, those patches for motion sickness, and those sprays for COPD patients are all anticholinergics.
@Alexander It's sad but ours is a generation of stagnation. No flying cars or chips, potato or otherwise. Ours is a time of realization that all those achievable 21st centuries inventions dreamt up back during Feynmann's time are actually much more difficult.
Well, flying cars are just impractical. And given the drivers in Tabriz, I wouldn't trust them to fly a unicycle.
@M.A.R. We may thank our lucky stars that there are no flying cars.
@Robusto You're back! What's up
@M.A.R. Not much. I was just off to ride by the ocean and visit family.
Got back last night.
12:58
Oh, I'm definitely not jealous.
Meanwhile I'm dealing with all sorts of shady people in the pharmacy
Shady how?
Makes an ocean trip sound inviting
@Robusto One is a war vet who is a "janbaz", i.e. has some lasting injuries from the war. That means he gets permanent perks from insurance companies and other parts of the government, and he's abusing those to buy the things he wants.
The other sort of shady character I'm dealing with comes with doctor prescriptions to buy a crapton of mixed insulin during a shortage
@M.A.R. As a proxy for the doctor?
Novomix is pretty scarce these days. They probably sell it to the desperate for several times its price outside
In the black market I mean.
Nothing new of course, but in this other pharmacy I work at, they're much more vicious since it's located in the city's sort of medical hub.
Nothing ever changes.
13:17
@user20458579510081670432 I always feel like "irreligion" was coined so its r could be trilled.
Irrrrrrrreligion!
13:37
@M.A.R. So pessimistic! The doctor could just be using it to secretly murder hospital patients.
14:10
@Criggie I did not get any reference.
But I vaguely remember the "Bears discover fire" story.
14:26
> The earliest example of the genre as expressed in young adult fiction is considered to be "The Steam Man of the Prairies" by Edward S. Ellis (1868), featuring fictional inventor Johnny Brainerd.
This is obviously, despite any actual corroborating evidence, the source of the word 'nerd'.
Brainerd -> brain-nerd -> nerd
@M.A.R. Just like personal jet packs, even with training, they're just way too dangerous. THere'd e more accidents than non-accidents.
Of course, once there are self - flying cars, anythig goes and they most likely will.
@M.A.R. Shady can cut the other way... hospitals are super-vigilant about pain meds (locking down the med closet, registering every single use) because they get stolen for home use or resale, or misused by patients who don't need it... but then there are patients in extreme long term pain who suffer because it is a struggle to get the possible relief from debilitating pain.
@Mitch I get that, but if you take extra opioids because the pain is intolerable, that would mean it will have less painkilling effect next time, until you would be in constant pain and entirely tolerant to opioids.
"Shade" as a two-way cutting sword is a dark analogue.
People develop tolerance towards the painkiller effect of opioids (including synthetic opioids like fentanyl) but no tolerance towards their respiratory depressive effects. If you're tolerant to opioids you risk shutting down your respiratory system without relief of pain.
Also no tolerance towards constipation . . .
What I'm saying is even draconian rules in hospitals usually have a reason.
@Robusto You were gone?
14:39
In healthcare, the restrictions that don't make sense / are abominable are usually from insurance providers.
@M.A.R. and couldn't poop.
Oh.
You said that.
Yes, a shitty jinx, if you will
Oh crap, I shit the bed.
Here, try some opioids
Diarrhea? I hardly knew her.
14:41
She's in the bathroom
OK changing the subject
If she can't get there in time then she's in continent.
I wanna rant about House of the Dragon
Is there a fentanyl epidemic going on in the middle east also @M.A.R.
@M.A.R. Or it's Code Brown, she's gotta shange her pants.
@M.A.R. Go on.
But thanks for the notice so I can plug my ears.
@user20458579510081670432 No, most of the world's junkies are in America. We've established that already
14:45
And eyes. Ha.. you thought you had me there, didn't you.
@Criggie But also reads eerily like Elon Musk's motivating story.
Here we're old-fashioned. Just good ol' opium from the American-tended fields in our war-ridden neighbor
@Mitch Well, I don't feel like ranting anymore. Thanks Obama
@alphabet "They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."
Gross.
Or is that just a shipping port.
15:00
@user20458579510081670432 Nah I gotta run ahead and set things up.
But no, Afghanistan.
It's like if Russia invaded Canada, and all the Canadian refugees came streaming over the border into Seattle, bringing their maple syrup, cnga health care crisis of diabetes a mong the naturally temperate Americans.
Well, at least that's what they say. I don't know who owns poppy farms in Afghanistan
The government, probably.
@user20458579510081670432 I'm not convinced the people in Kuwait are not made of crude oil.
What use would they have for poppy farms?
15:14
Yup, BIG OIL is the original sin.
I thought it was apples.
Seems kinda lame next to oil.
Once solar and nuclear fusion replace oil, what're they all gonna do? Go back to pistachios and dates?
To be sure, they have to keep -some- oil operations going to keep the world choked with plastic.
@Mitch Indeed.
15:31
Unless you're agnostic and believe that the afterlife is unknowable.
15:42
::crickets::
16:39
> Baihe (百合)
Dating-application Baihe takes looking for a date onto a whole new level. ... All users...are also encouraged to list assets like housing and cars with the proof that they really own them. Educational credentials such as diplomas and certificates as well as credit score are also common profile features.
@user20458579510081670432 What struck me about that article is the list of 29 (!) types of Irreligion (a.k.a 'nones' in the literature I often come across), quite a bewildering variety similar to the challenge one's facing in sorting out various Protestant groups. So now when I encounter a "none", I am obliged to ask them, what kind of "none" are you?
> Maohu
The app’s main feature is anonymous five-minute “dating sessions” between users via video chat during which faces are masked by the platform. ... Once the mask is removed, the app applies beauty filters that, for example, smooth the skin or make faces appear narrower.
@Mitch No those are ours, they can't take them away
@Cerberus According to my friend who is from there, it sounds like how flesh and blood matchmaker operates in China / East Asia as recent as last generation, acting as a trustworthy "broker" between the 2 families.
@GratefulDisciple Right, that kind of makes sense.
Pretty extreme.
I guess it used to be similar in Europe, centuries ago.
16:49
@Cerberus I was gonna say the straightforwardness is sorta refreshing
But who knows how people can scam each other on such platforms
@M.A.R. Refreshing like a punch to the face?
No pansy crap like meeting each other and learning about likes and dislikes and first date and second date and so on
Fair enough.
If you don't drive a . . . Toyota? Shove off
All you need for a match is comparing bank accounts.
And we think American culture is materialist...less developed cultures can be far worse than that!
16:54
@Cerberus Is that so? Which makes the kind of "sizing up your worth" in the period of Jane Austen novels less onerous. Guess if both sides have a lot of "goods" to bring to the marriage, you do want the alliance to be somewhat equal materially, or at least both parties need to make a decision with eyes open, like the heroines in Jane Austen's novels.
@GratefulDisciple Yeah, that period is a good comparison.
And you can see similar practices in contemporaneous French and Russian literature.
@alphabet Aircrafts, huh. Don't get me started on troop.
But you can see the culture is developing away from that, the book resists that practice, doesn't it?
@MetaEd Are Balrog aircrafts?
@Cerberus Fair.
It was just a question!
And, if so, are they wingèd aircrafts?
17:01
I think they're not allowed in no-fly zones so yeah
Hmm are you sure?
Are wingless aircrafts allowed in no-fly zones?
Gandalf's ground-to-air magic missiles shot one down
I suppose he can shoot up.
@M.A.R. I've heard that the Taliban, at least before the American invasion, was actually reasonably successful at reducing opium harvesting. America, of course, then empowered a bunch of local warlords who wanted to traffic drugs and/or children.
Oh, really?
Afterwards, I believe the Taliban earned a ton of money from the opium trade, which allowed them to take over the country again eventually.
17:06
It wouldn't be surprising. I mean, half a world away American military's morality has largely been determined by whether they can be found out. And even that's not deterred them sometimes.
I'm not a big follower of the news but it has been a blackhole in Afghanistan if we ignore the occasional bombs going off.
I wonder what they're up to that even our media is ashamed of broadcasting
I mean, one aspect definitely is that they say they rule by Sharia law and we say we rule by Sharia law but the Taliban is despised by our people so it might be a bit confusing, leading to conclusions like "maybe it's not so great"
@M.A.R. Repressing women.
@M.A.R. That is pretty interesting: is this what you see in Persian media? And those conclusions are in there, too?
This report based on satellite data says that the Taliban has reduced opium cultivation by 85% since its return to power.
They ban all cultivation for religious reasons and don't have to worry about pesky things like due process.
While the government America installed was a massively corrupt kleptocracy running on illegal drug sales and diverted aid money.
@Cerberus In the cities, yes. In parts of the country, the Taliban's implementation of Sharia law is actually better for women's rights than the warlords America had running those places: newyorker.com/culture/the-new-yorker-documentary/…
@Cerberus Yes, it's indubitable that the basic principles of our laws is "Shari'at". The repressive laws are hardcoded into the system: No female presidents, no female mullahs (mojtaheds, essentially graduate mullahs, the ones where the turban becomes a second protective organ to protect the brain) etc etc. They're not supposed to be questioned but kids invariably do in theology class when they see that inheritance laws involve male next of kin to get twice as much inheritance when it's divided
@alphabet Interesting. I wonder why the change isn't gradual: there is no decrease for a few years, then an almost 100% change between 2022 and 2023?
17:16
Theology classes always have several built-in awkward moments when kids question these laws and teachers mumble some incomprehensible things, drenched in sweat.
@alphabet I suspect that's just a small proportion of the population, then.
Though, for what it's worth, girls' education is not banned or something.
> the Taliban is despised by our people so it might be a bit confusing, leading to conclusions like "maybe it's not so great"
@M.A.R. I meant this part, is that really what you see in the media when reporting about Afghanistan?
@Cerberus Their interpretation is undoubtedly more extreme.
Especially those conclusions?
@M.A.R. I know.
I only wanted to know what your media reported about them.
17:18
@Cerberus As I recall, they raze whole fields to the ground. Also: if I lived there and started getting threats from the Taliban, I'd do what they say to avoid getting beheaded or whatever it is they do.
@alphabet But can they really have full crops of entirely different plants the next season, as on the map? Is that really possible, for the entire province all at once?
@Cerberus The media doesn't cover anything at all about Taliban. There was that bit during martyr Raisi's term when some clown was welcoming them as "our freedom fighter brothers" but they soon bared their teeth at us, killed a couple of border patrol guards and such, so that abruptly stopped.
I should think not?
@M.A.R. How wonderful. I'm guessing they even let women drive.
As far as I can tell, there's nothing in the news about Taliban, since they might be a potential ally in the future and there's nothing to gain by vilifying them.
17:20
@Cerberus No, they mostly fall into poverty and starve once they lose their only source of income.
But they're such dogged idiots that probably wouldn't happen
@M.A.R. OK so then who draws these conclusions that you mentioned? Just progressive people, in private?
> Suffering will increase among middling farm households as they exhaust what inventories they have of opium and are forced into more harmful coping mechanisms, as poorer households have already done in response to broader economic privation: selling livestock and other remaining assets, eschewing medical care and medicines, eating less and lower-quality food, sending family members out of the country, or even marrying off daughters prematurely.
@alphabet Do you understand my point here?
@Cerberus I was responding to your claim that they "have full crops of entirely different plants the next season"
17:22
@Cerberus People that peer out of their meerkat holes and watch news besides the garbage on state media (which is all media).
@alphabet That was to support my point.
No official numbers but it would definitely be a majority of the population in 2024 actually.
@M.A.R. Ah, OK, right.
Though I suppose those people had already drawn those same conclusions without considering the Taliban.
@Cerberus What was your point then? I believe Alcis is a pretty respected source and I'm not sure how you could fake that satellite data, given it follows the Taliban's stated policies and pre-war actions.
How can an entire province change its crops in all fertile areas within one season? Is that possible at all? If not, then how can the maps be correct?
Something seems not right there.
Especially considering that nothing at all on those maps changed for several years under Taliban rule until 2023 specifically.
17:26
@Cerberus They don't need to change crops by planting new ones, just raze all the fields containing opium poppies. Which isn't particularly difficult.
No, there are green dots.
@Cerberus America essentially supported the opium trade, or at least had a policy of deliberate ignorance.
Praesumably green is wheat.
@alphabet No, that is not it.
Not what I said.
@Cerberus Actually, their full report explains it: alcis.org/post/taliban-drugs-ban
> The campaign also began early in the season just after planting giving farmers the opportunity to replant their land with wheat, or to leave it fallow for a spring cultivar of cotton or groundnuts.
My question remains: can they really repopulate all the fertile lands in the entire province with wheat, in one season?
@alphabet And which season is this? 2022?
17:32
@Cerberus well, people are vaguely angry, but they don't exactly know what to be angry at. The just want a reboot button. And I don't like that option.
@M.A.R. Oh, I just meant about Sharia.
A lot of people that have no loyalty left towards the Supreme leader have already understood that foreign policy is the first thing to fix.
Hmm how do you mean?
@Cerberus I believe so.
No more hating Arabia and America?
17:33
Since he's been the most steadfast opponent of being friends with other countries in the recent years.
The UN says the drop was even steeper, a 95% decline: unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/…
Right.
@alphabet OK then my question remains.
@Cerberus I'm not an expert on wheat-replanting, but apparently Alcis thinks that that's what happened.
So they think it can be done, by a large number of poor farmers in the world's second-most isolated country.
Per the UN:
> A focused remote sensing analysis for Farah, Helmand, Kandahar and Nangahar, which together represented 74% of opium poppy cultivation in 2022, indicated that approximately 68% of the 2022 opium poppy fields had been replanted with wheat including other cereal crops.
> In 2023, there was an overall increase of 160,000 ha in cereal cultivation across the four provinces, a large part due to replacing opium poppy with wheat.
Apparently, since wheat and opium are planted around the same time, switching at the start of the growing season is relatively easy.
The BBC cites the Alcis data and other experts: bbc.com/news/world-asia-65787391.amp
The BBC actually sent reporters there and saw large opium fields replanted with wheat. Seems pretty conclusive.
17:42
@user20458579510081670432 agnosticism is treating mysticism as a scientifically questionable (ie confirmable or refutable), and as Hume noted mysticism is inherently non-scientific, ergo agnostics disappear in a poof of self-contradiction.
unless they're not thinking real hard about it and then everything is OK.
@Cerberus That's what most people want, well, America, they don't particularly care about rich fat princes (and if you dig a bit you'll find a lot of racism towards Arabs in general in non-Arab provinces).
@alphabet So it is indeed possible.
I didn't expect that to be so easy.
Also considering the type of soil and everything required for wheat.
Wordle 1,160 3/6

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And perhaps the Taliban distributed free wheat seeds to all farmers?
@M.A.R. It kind of makes sense: people rarely care enough about neighbouring countries to really hate them.
Except perhaps if their government has managed to make them believe that the countries are a severe threat to them, or that they really, really need to add the neighbouring territory to their own.
@Cerberus I don't think their wheat harvests are very high-yield.
17:47
Still, it is quite a feat to replant an entire province with an entirely different crop in one season.
Apparently some of them have switched to manufacturing meth: reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/…
@GratefulDisciple All those varieties of 'none' eerily sound like the taxonomy of ESP: telekinesis (including levitation), clairvoyance/prognostication (including astrology and palm reading), transmogrification (pulling a rabbit out of a hat), and mind-reading.
All varieties of things that aren't things.
> Afghanistan is home to the ephedra plant, which can be used to make methamphetamine, but the UNODC said the quantities needed to produce the drug and the risk of unreliable crops meant that Afghanistan's production did not depend on the plant alone.
"Common cold medications and industrial-grade chemicals are more efficient and cost effective for the manufacture of methamphetamine and thus pose a far bigger threat," the UNODC said.
Odd.
@Cerberus I think Republicans here do not have a high opinion of Mexico.
@alphabet So what are you saying?
17:49
@MetaEd DOn't get trapped in the troop trope.
@Cerberus What I just said?
I don't get why you replied to me, then. It doesn't seem to be about what I said.
@Mitch Could be.
@Mitch But in Types of Irreligion case, although not taxonomy, I can notice differences in philosophical positions with regards to various attitudes to God, religious institution, society, ontology (strict materialist or not), types of atheist movement (like "New Atheism") and morality. To me it's a good list with defensible labels that various 'none' could use.
@GratefulDisciple 1) It's given as a simple list, ie a flat taxonomy, but I'm sure more organization could be made
2) Yes it is defensible. I think I had a point to what I said, but now I'm not so sure.
maybe I should be applying my taxonomy of magic to a taxonomy of -theology- (actual beliefs in religions) as opposed to -varieties- of religions.
@Mitch I would think taxonomy of theology would be more objective (i.e. in terms of propositions) rather than magic that deals with subjective states and esoteric techniques. There are "techniques" in religion (Roger Olson coined a wonderful term: "spiritual technology") but because of its commnual practice, it is also objective.
18:04
They even made an update to Atheism? These software updates are getting out of hand.
But not all religious "techniques" (which I should call "practices", since they are theologically legitimate) should be called "spiritual technology" by Olson's definition.
@M.A.R. Not sure whether "New Atheism" is an ingroup / outgroup term, but that meaning is stable, indicating the new approach that Atheists have been defending their position, and to which Christian apologists respond with new books accordingly, most notably Catholic philosopher Ed Feser's 2010 book The Last Superstition: A Refutation of the New Atheism.
@M.A.R. Maybe I should anticipate Atheism 3.0 coming out soon, refuting Ed Feser's defense. 😊 Probably in the area of neuroscience & AI simulation of neural network refuting the existence of immaterial mind.
@GratefulDisciple One thing you don't like about theologians is their attitude.
@GratefulDisciple Hmm How is magic subjective and theology not?
Always talking about 1001 stories from around the hemisphere to hide an unjustified (to the outside observer) disdain towards their atheologian peers.
Which hemisphaere?
The globe can be halved in many ways.
18:14
Maybe I'm biased because I'm exposed to nonsense masquerading as philosophy non-stop.
@M.A.R. Speaking from North American 21st century context, I noticed a big change in a theologian's attitude compared to when Christianity was more established (say, mid 1950s). Nowadays, younger theologians are more listening to "nones"'s concerns and don't do "fire and brimstone" preaching. They are also less likely to do monologues with ivory tower attitude. I'm not sure what you're referring to.
Luckily, in Europe we don't really hear theologians at all any more, they are dying out.
It will also happen in America.
@GratefulDisciple Well, the description of that book on Amazon is already haughty.
Calling philosophies they disagree with "absurd" out of the blue.
Maybe I'm overreacting.
As I said, every time I turn the TV on, some moron somewhere is saying "Look into your heart! You know God is there somewhere!"
@M.A.R. Well, from what I heard, the title was meant to be provocative and matching the titles of the books written by the major figures of New Atheism such as "The God Delusion", "God is not great", etc. But I heard the book is well reasoned and although I haven't read the book, I heard Ed Feser speaks and read a few of his essays & books. Plus, he speaks as philosopher, not theologian, which is a very different breed.
The quote on the cover from this Roger Kimball fellow is already calling Dawkins "Village Atheist".
@GratefulDisciple I suppose theologians resort to ad hominem and atheologians to mockery. And I dislike the former more.
Dawkins mocks their arguments, they usually mock back the people.
I personally don't like Harris. He's just an Islamophobe. Hitchens is all right, though sometimes grumpy.
18:21
@M.A.R. Maybe we are referring to a different type of people. Those resorting to ad hominem are maybe amateur non-academic apologists, street preachers, social media influencers, or lay teachers in a church. By "theologian" I'm talking about scholars in Christian academia who publish peer reviewed theological books.
@M.A.R. That sounds like a street preacher / missionary / evangelist type, not a theologian.
@GratefulDisciple worse, a mullah. More often than not.
But rubs me up the wrong way nonetheless.
@M.A.R. That is a symptom of anti-intellectual attitude, that (I'm ashamed to admit) are unfortunately quite prevalent among today's evangelical Christians. Catholics are a lot more friendly to philosophy.
@M.A.R. Rubs me the wrong way too, BTW.
Bah just a few years ago I was still drinking the Kool aid. I've had a religious upbringing. Not too weird, mind.
@M.A.R. I'm not that familiar with the connotation of "mullah" you meant (since the definition given by Google, "a Muslim learned in Islamic theology and sacred law.") is too broad. The Christian equivalent I meant that rubs me the wrong way would probably be a "fundamentalist preacher".
But they also let me learn English.
18:26
@M.A.R. If I may ask, was it Islam / Christian / something else?
@GratefulDisciple They're supposed to graduates from "howzeh". Ultimately all-in-one preacher-philosopher-whatever else sorts. But in a theocracy, they gain undue status. Become politicians, orators and role models too.
@GratefulDisciple Islam
Maybe all the C- mullahs are ruining the scholarly visage of their more hardworking peers.
@Cerberus Maybe in Europe theologians are sequestered into their seminaries and churches, so unless you wade into their habitat, you wouldn't hear them. Although compared to America, large European universities still have their theology department but in America they separate into their own institutions. Even so, they probably would rather be called professors / scholars in Religious Studies.
@M.A.R. I think so too. Which is unfortunate, because Christianity's intellectual foundation is quite strong but unappreciated by the anti-intellectual factions, leading one religious scholar to write the book The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind.
I study Aquinas a lot and in his day Aquinas had high respect for Moslem scholars and engaged them well in his writings.
@M.A.R. The Western equivalent to "hawzah" / "madrasa" is probably Bible school.
"madraseh" is now just the term for "school" in Farsi.
@Cerberus There are various types of theology. Mystical theology / Christian spirituality is more subjective. But majority of Protestant theologians are well versed in Bible scholarship, so they would construct their theologies from first principles of a certain Bible interpretation, and cover the traditional topics like Trinity, Salvation, End Times, etc.
The latter may have subjective factors, but in their theology books they have to be spelled out, especially in this post-modern era, where one has to be upfront with all their biases, axioms, etc.
Then there is Philosophical Theology and Natural Theology that is even more explicit and objective, the kind that I personally like, since the theologians regularly engage professional philosophers who by definition only use sources amenable to reason.
@M.A.R. I see. So if you want to become a religious leader who takes care of a group of Moslems going to a local mosque, what's your education path?
In America, if you are aspiring to be a Protestant pastor, you usually need a 4 year degree (which can be anything, even in technology majors), then go to a school that offers a Master of Divinity degree (typically 2 years) or Master of Theology degree (typically 3 years). Having an M.Div. is usually a requirement by many churches to be employed as the main pastor.
18:48
@M.A.R. All I found was a little calcification on the aortic valve. Is that bad?
And if you want to be a Catholic priest, you go to your diocese's seminary which is at least 4 years (maybe more) and the curriculum covers at least 1-2 years of philosophy and then theology, along with learning the Biblical languages (Hebrew & Greek), which Protestant MDiv students also learn. That's why Catholic priests tend to be more well versed and less-combative in talking philosophically with atheists.
@Mitch snark
@Robusto snigger
"Experience is the worst teacher. It always gives the test first and the instruction afterward."
I couldn't find the apropos Charlie Brown comic.
@GratefulDisciple That's as much as an MD.
No wonder the evangelicals cut that out. Get straight to the preaching part.
18:51
@Cerberus I read Bored Of The Rings and learned yes he shot up a lot
22
A: Why does the incorrect plural "aircrafts" seem to be occurring more often?

RobustoWell, this is an example of why Google NGrams isn't a precise indicator. When we compare the two directly, aircrafts simply can't get off the ground: Now, this result is also flawed since it is impossible to separate uses of aircraft (singular) and aircraft (plural). It is also impossible to f...

@Cerberus I don't know. Some parts of the US, it's big business.
@Mitch Possibly. I heard the education of the Jesuit order priests are even longer. I'm glad that there is a growing faction in evangelicalism (which by definition are Protestants) who appreciates philosophy, such as Gavin Ortlund who had Philosophy undergraduate major.
@GratefulDisciple that's not how Islam works. There's no shepherd. Going to mosques is not a requirement, not even by social norms.
@Cerberus Yeah I'd read a book trying to explain that.
OK Yes I probably would not read the whole book.
Unless it had pictures.
and diagrams.
18:56
@Mitch If a diagram is in the initial stages of conception it's fun to call it a diapergram.
And maybe a description of its writing systems and a calendar and events in history.
That said, you study the same material until high school, then choose "Islamic teachings" in high school, instead of "math" or "experimental sciences". Then enroll in household
*Howzeh
I'm on mobile now
@M.A.R. Seriously? I heard Moslems need to go to Mosque every Friday around noon (which includes hearing a preaching) in addition to pray 5 times a day, if not at home, at the local Mosque?
If there are any typos, they are also autocorrect's fault
@GratefulDisciple yeah, the Friday noon prayer in Mosallah (the biggest mosque in the city, no longer exactly local). Well, around a thousand people participate in it every Friday. Tabriz has a population of a million and half.
@Robusto This room sure like wordplays and puns.
18:59
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