English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

alphabet

00:00

Obviously the basement is floor 4294967295

The only logical system

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos Are floor 4 and 14 missing in Korea?

Dannyu NDos

Technically no but sometimes, instead of the 4th floor, we have the floor "F".

And we don't care much about 14th floor.

Tetraphobia is quite a thing here. That's why most hospitals have funeral home on the floor "F".

jlliagre

French buildings do not care about floor 13 but they are missing in the US.

Cerberus

Really??

Wow, such funny superstition.

Dannyu NDos

In most east Asian languages, "4" sounds exactly like "death". That's why.

Cerberus

00:11

But who cares...

Dannyu NDos

You don't fear death?

Robusto

@jlliagre Well, nobody has a Year 0. They all started with 1 back then, so we're just keeping up the game with buildings.

alphabet

Answer: rooms on higher floor numbers sell better. Skipping the 13th floor lets them make more money on the higher ones, while having a plausible excuse for doing so.

Cerberus

@DannyuNDos It is irrelevant.

Dannyu NDos

Woah.

Robusto

00:13

@alphabet Skipping 13 means one less "higher" floor.

Cerberus

Sorry, I have no patience with superstition.

alphabet

@Robusto It means that the 13th story gets to be called "floor 14," the 14th story gets to be called "floor 15," etc.

They don't reduce the number of constructed floors by one; they just rename all the floors starting at 13 to be 1 higher

Robusto

@alphabet And in tall buildings those are low floors anyway. Whenever you stay in a real hotel, if your floor isn't >20 you ain't shit.

All the status means is that the higher the floor the longer you wait for an elevator, and the longer you wait on an elevator ride.

alphabet

It means you get to look down on all the peasants

Robusto

@jlliagre But nobody in Europe calls it Floor 0 anyway. In Germany they call it das Erdgeschoß.

jlliagre

00:19

@Robusto I was glad to be at the 36th floor in my NYC hotel, but when I looked through the window, I was disappointed to see I was only at the 34e étage ;-)

Robusto

Hey, I like zero-based arrays as well as the next programmer. But the math you have to do with buildings is just too simple to get all worked up about.

jlliagre

@Robusto We call it rez-de-chaussée but we might also call it le niveau 0.

Xander Henderson

ZERO IS NOT A NATURAL NUMBER!

jlliagre

Dannyu NDos

You don't have the close button??

jlliagre

00:22

Generally yes.

Robusto

@jlliagre In case you haven't noticed, we seem to be having an argument about literally nothing. ;-)

Xander Henderson

@jlliagre that building is cursed.

1, 2, 3, ...

Robusto

@XanderHenderson You got a problem with unnatural things?

Xander Henderson

For lower floors, B1, B2, B3, ...

Dannyu NDos

@XanderHenderson Yeah, but it's a finite cardinal.

Robusto

00:24

Apr 30, 2011 at 14:10, by Vitaly

There. Stalin the Owl.

That unnatural enough for you?

Xander Henderson

@Robusto Hell yes.

Robusto

I'll bet you use zeroes every damn day.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto NEVER!

Robusto

What about your checking account?

Xander Henderson

In other news, I just got some nerd cards in the mail. The folk at the game shop seem to have accidentally doubled my order.

Robusto

00:29

Tragic: The Gathering

Xander Henderson

@Robusto Tragic: The Affliction.

(But yes.)

Dannyu NDos

Pro-tip: Pay attention to whether mathematicians titlecased their words. For instances, a cat isn't in Cat, and a card isn't in Card.

Xander Henderson

@DannyuNDos duh?

Dannyu NDos

And a top isn't in Top.

Xander Henderson

Is there confusion about that?

Robusto

00:32

> Kristi Noeme is like a box of chocolates: she'll kill your dog.

Dannyu NDos

@XanderHenderson Amongst mathematicians, no; amongst laymen, yes.

Robusto

@DannyuNDos They're just case-sensitive is all.

Which is the only way to be if you're a coder.

CowperKettle

17 mins ago, by Robusto

There. Stalin the Owl.

alphabet

@Robusto Well, now she'll definitely be the VP pick.

CowperKettle

00:47

@jlliagre I recently delivered a pizza to the 35th floor of an apartment building

The growth of new buildings has been enormous

jlliagre

CowperKettle

Last time I bicycled in those parts of the city, it was full of construction yards and old wooden shacks

Cerberus

Are those half storeys entresols?

jlliagre

@CowperKettle Lucky that wasn't in that Swedish building.

CowperKettle

And they are high-standard, with rooms for washing dog's paws on the ground floors.

Robusto

00:49

The Rolling Stones - Get Off Of My Cloud (Official Lyric Video)

►

Cerberus

And why do some storeys not have lift access?

CowperKettle

> Dear dwellers! The subbotnik (communal bee aimed at clearing the premises together) is taking place on 20 and 21 April (last year nobody showed up). Administration.

jlliagre

@Cerberus They aren't, the left and right sides are shifted by an half-storey.

CowperKettle

Subbotnik

Subbotnik and voskresnik (from Russian: суббо́та, IPA: [sʊˈbotə] for "Saturday" and воскресе́нье, IPA: [vəskrʲɪˈsʲenʲjɪ] for "Sunday") were days of volunteer unpaid work on weekends after the October Revolution, though the word itself is derived from суббо́та (subbota for Saturday) and the common Russian suffix -ник (-nik). The tradition is continued in modern Russia and some other former Soviet Republics. Subbotniks are mostly organized for cleaning the streets of garbage, fixing public amenities, collecting recyclable material, and other community services. The first mass subbotnik was held on...

jlliagre

@Cerberus Possibly because you need to use a different elevator, or stairs maybe.

CowperKettle

00:53

> The first all-Russian subbotnik was held on May 1, 1920, and Vladimir Lenin participated in removing building rubble in the Moscow Kremlin, an episode portrayed in a famous painting by Vladimir Krikhatsky, Lenin at the First Subbotnik, of Lenin carrying a log.

In first years of school, we were taught about Lenin carrying a log on a subbotnik.

Cerberus

@jlliagre Hah odd!

@jlliagre An interesting building.

@CowperKettle Who even put up the note?

jlliagre

@Cerberus Probably a single elevator between two buildings in a sloped terrain.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto You know the difference between Mick Jagger and a scotsman, right?

Robusto

@alphabet Yes, and the contest is called ¿Quién es la más horrible?

Xander Henderson

Jagger sings "Hey you, get offa my cloud", while the scotsman yells "'Ey McCloud! Get offa mah ewe!"

CowperKettle

00:56

@Cerberus That's why I reposted this photo on Facebook, writing "I'm not sure whether this is from Bulgakov or Zoschenko" (known for their absurdist stories poking fun at Soviet practices and officialeze jargon), and people put laughing smilies

Robusto

@XanderHenderson Ewwwwww.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto No, "ewe".

It's a female sheep.

Robusto

Yeah, I got it. I was delivering a riposte to that.

CowperKettle

Mikhail Zoshchenko

Mikhail Mikhailovich Zoshchenko (Russian: Михаил Михайлович Зощенко; Ukrainian: Михайло Михайлович Зощенко;10 August [O.S. 29 July] 1894 – 22 July 1958) was a Soviet and Russian writer and satirist. == Biography == Zoshchenko was born in 1894, in Saint Petersburg, Russia, according to his 1953 autobiography. Other sources suggest that he was born in Poltava, in present-day Ukraine. His Ukrainian father was an artist and a mosaicist responsible for the exterior decoration of the Suvorov Museum in Saint Petersburg. His mother was Russian. The future writer attended the Faculty of Law at the Saint...

Xander Henderson

@Robusto And I'm just playing the straight man. ;D

CowperKettle

00:58

It's too bad that Soshchenko's stories are untranslatable, they are thick with that particular style of speech which you just can't transplant, like O.Henry's puns.

Robusto

@XanderHenderson OK, Mr. Laurel.

jlliagre

Ewe language

Ewe (Eʋe or Eʋegbe [ɛβɛɡ͡bɛ]) is a language spoken by approximately 5 million people in West Africa, mainly in Ghana and Togo. Ewe is part of a group of related languages commonly called the Gbe languages. The other major Gbe language is Fon, which is mainly spoken in Benin. Like many African languages, Ewe is tonal as well as a possible member of the Niger-Congo family. The German Africanist Diedrich Hermann Westermann published many dictionaries and grammars of Ewe and several other Gbe languages. Other linguists who have worked on Ewe and closely related languages include Gilbert Ansre (tone...

Cerberus

@jlliagre Or just an old building changed many times over the centuries?

CowperKettle

> Zoshchenko developed a simplified deadpan style of writing which simultaneously made him accessible to "the people" and mocked official demands for accessibility: "I write very compactly. My sentences are short. Accessible to the poor. Maybe that's the reason why I have so many readers."[4] Volkov compares this style to the nakedness of the Russian holy fool or yurodivy.

Cerberus

@CowperKettle I really wonder who decided to put up the note, but then didn't come himself.

jlliagre

00:59

@Cerberus The Tower of Pisa?

Hard to guess how to pronounce 'ewe' when you first see that word as a NNS.

alphabet

@XanderHenderson As long as the sheep is female, you're playing it well.

@jlliagre It rhymes with UwU, simple. /s

Cerberus

@jlliagre It doesn't look as though many annexes were added or floors changed?

jlliagre

Being John Malkovich (1/11) Movie CLIP - Welcome to the 7 1/2 Floor (1999) HD

►

Xander Henderson

@alphabet I am, for what it's worth, about a 0 on the Kinsey scale.

Michael Rybkin

youtube.com/watch?v=KNK-tmMz618#t=15m18s So, this has made me very happy indeed. I'll get on with playing with a bit of Solitaire and in a second we'll have _____ title. (what's he saying there in the blank?)

Cerberus

01:15

@MichaelRybkin I don't understand it either.

I possibly hear, "an end to the title" or "an ending title": maybe an ending title is the term for what is displayed after a video ends, the title of the video is displayed full screen?

I don't know.

alphabet

@XanderHenderson Nothing wrong with being a zero /s

Xander Henderson

@alphabet Nope. It just means that I am very, very boring.

Robusto

@jlliagre It is pronounced identically to you.

jlliagre

To me?

Robusto

Or u.

Or yew.

Or yoo as in yoohoo.

@jlliagre That's what I immediately thought of with the 1/2 floors.

alphabet

01:33

In today's news, a guy 40 years older than me has once again offered to pay me for sex.

Cerberus

Nice!!

Why don't they offer that to me??

jlliagre

@alphabet A zoophile!

alphabet

As usual, I responded "How much?" since I was curious to know my market value. Then I blocked him.

Apparently I'm in the $100-200 range.

Cerberus

I mean, it has happened, but it doesn't even happen once a year for me. And people have plenty of opportunity!!

@alphabet Wow that is a lot!

Or what did you have to do for it?

alphabet

@Cerberus I'm not sure there's a chat-appropriate way to say it, but you'd be surprised.

Cerberus

01:37

@alphabet By how little it is?

This could be good practice for your writing skills: describe it in such a way that it is non-sexual but we still understand what you mean.

At the moment, I am getting a message "hi" from a blank profile.

alphabet

No, by the fact that he's paying me.

Cerberus

Not sure I follow.

I'm sure you're a catch or he wouldn't pay you.

alphabet

Let me put it this way. He didn't even want me to reciprocate.

I'm not particularly attractive or anything, so I'm not sure why I get these every few months.

Cerberus

Apparently, you are.

Every three months!

Why don't I get that??

@alphabet Easy money, then.

I know that quite a few people are happy doing that.

Meanwhile, Mr blank profile has sent his face, but wants to move to Snapchat.

alphabet

I don't get this on Grindr, only on Sniffies, where the truly seedy people go.

Cerberus

01:45

Oh, I have never used that.

alphabet

@Cerberus It has the unique "feature" that you can have nude profile pics; it isn't on the App Store since that breaks Apple's rules. You have to use it through your phone's web browser.

Cerberus

Oh, how unique.

Browser would seem more convenient.

Then you can userscript it to remove annoying stuff.

And web pages generally work faster than stupid 'apps'.

alphabet

@Cerberus I've gotten those before. I think they're just afraid of having a pic somewhere visible to the public but I find it kinda sketchy.

@Cerberus Anyway, that's what that $100-200 valuation was based on.

Cerberus

@alphabet Is Snapchat less visible?

@alphabet So when will you do it?

alphabet

@Cerberus The pictures expire after a few seconds and it alerts you if the other person screenshots it.

Cerberus

01:52

But Grinder also has that function?

And he already sent his face anyway.

alphabet

@Cerberus I won't. I mean, it wouldn't cost me anything, but it doesn't seem appealing and I don't need the money. Also, y'know, super illegal here.

Cerberus

Oh hmm illegal, what could happen if you should be caught?

alphabet

@Cerberus I think you need a paid Grindr subscription to use the "expiring photos" feature.

Cerberus

But, yeah, I don't need the money either.

@alphabet Ohh I see.

But you could put it in an album and lock it, same effect.

I know that's free.

alphabet

@Cerberus I mean, I don't know what the prostitution laws are in Boston, but I'm guessing something unpleasant.

@Cerberus Just less convenient (and I'm not sure if it tells you if someone takes a screenshot).

Cerberus

01:57

It blocks screenshots.

Unless you circumvent that, which most people cannot do.

alphabet

Ah. But I've also gotten guys who prefer Snapchat because they see it as more "private"

Xander Henderson

@alphabet Just get a second camera and use that to take screenshots.

alphabet

For all I know, some of the guys offering money are undercover cops, but I doubt it

Cerberus

> they see it as more "private

alphabet

@XanderHenderson Well, yeah, there's no way to totally prevent it

Cerberus

01:59

That begs the question, though.

@XanderHenderson Or just use Scrcpy.

Xander Henderson

That seems to be what most of my students do when they want to show me their homework (despite the fact that I provide instructions for taking screenshots in Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android in the syllabus).

Cerberus

Assuming you use Android.

tchrist

We gave all our enemies coons: Russia, Germany, and Japan!

Let's Talk About American Raccoons

►

alphabet

Sniffies, of course, is just a map of various explicit photographs

I've mentioned earlier that it also lets you list "events," as in that conversation with Laurel about the orgy invitation

Cerberus

Wow.

The modern age.

alphabet

02:05

Also a map of local cruising spots. I'm surprised this app hasn't gotten banned for some reason or other.

Well, the app stores can't ban it, which I suppose is the point.

Xander Henderson

@tchrist Several years ago, I made a joke, suggesting that I would like to start a band called "Sky Daddy, Zombie J, and the Spook". I was told that I couldn't make that joke, because it was offensive.

"Yeah," I said, "I can see how some stuffy religious folk might find it offensive but, like, that's kind of the point, I think. I don't mind pissing off some close minded a-holes."

"No," my interlocutor responded. "The word 'spook' is a racial slur, and you shouldn't use it."

tchrist

@XanderHenderson Try the Lol Cat version.

Cerberus

@alphabet So why did you peruse it instead of Grinder?

Xander Henderson

I died a little that day. :(

tchrist

@XanderHenderson They're full of shit.

Xander Henderson

02:08

Which is all preamble for me saying that I am all for you using "coon" as a shortened form of "raccoon", but be aware that some pecksniff is likely to come along and tell you off at some point.

tchrist

@XanderHenderson That would be Ceiling Cat, Happy Cat, and Hover Cat.

alphabet

@Cerberus I've had better luck finding guys on it for whatever reason.

tchrist

@XanderHenderson Only dogs sniff your pecker.

Sometimes dogs may need a kicking.

Otherwise you'll just encourage them.

Xander Henderson

@tchrist Totally unrelated to the etymology of the word, but sure.

alphabet

Nov 24, 2023 at 4:30, by alphabet

I like my men the way I like my coffee: readily available through a smartphone app.

Xander Henderson

02:10

@alphabet I like my women like I like my coffee: packed in crates and shipped from Colombia.

Cerberus

@alphabet Hmm interesting.

Did you have any nice experience of late?

alphabet

@XanderHenderson Do you mean Colombia, or is that what they're doing with the protesters?

Cerberus

@XanderHenderson That is such a lovely image.

tchrist

@XanderHenderson A cleverer man than I he was he was.

Xander Henderson

@alphabet I have no idea what you are talking about.

<_<

>_>

<_<

alphabet

02:12

@Cerberus I mean, I found a guy I was gonna meet up with tonight, but he randomly stopped responding to me right after I gave him my address

Xander Henderson

Right. I made sourdough yesterday, specifically so that I could make french toast for dinner tonight. I'm off.

alphabet

@XanderHenderson I was joking about the protests at Columbia University; they've been cracking down on them today. My joke was that, instead of the country (Colombia), you were getting protesters from the university (Columbia).

Cerberus

@alphabet Ugh that is pretty crazy.

It happens.

alphabet

@Cerberus Well, another sketchy guy knows where I live, so that's cool

@XanderHenderson Oh wait, I misread your message; I'd thought you misspelled "Colombia" as "Columbia" and was making a joke based on that.

Cerberus

At least he doesn't want to go to your house, which makes stalking more complicated.

@alphabet He did misspell, he edited it.

alphabet

02:17

@Cerberus Ah. So my joke did make sense. I promise not to turn this into a debate regarding the character of the protestors, the topic of the protests, or the comments of a certain congresswoman about them.

Cerberus

Now that you have said that: too late!

alphabet

Apparently the protestors at Harvard took over a bunch of flagpoles and replaced the American flags with Palestinian ones.

tchrist

1

A: What's the difference between a fable and a parable?

'Fable' and 'parable' in reference works One early reference book on synonyms, George Crabb, English Synonymes Explained, in Alphabetical Order (1816) puts fable in one group of synonyms (with tale, novel, and romance) and parable in another (with allegory). Here is how Crabb treats each term: F...

alphabet

@Cerberus Imagine being one of those people who knows the name of everyone they've ever had sex with.

Cerberus

@alphabet What about it?

alphabet

02:34

@Cerberus Must be weird.

Dannyu NDos

South Korean government declares travel prohibition to Haiti tomorrow.

alphabet

Does anyone want to go to Haiti right now?

I seem to recall it being taken over by gangs.

@Cerberus Every once in a while I am suddenly hit with the realization that most guys are straight and have no exposure to this culture.

Cerberus

"Culture"!

Straight would have more sex if women were as easy as men, right?

alphabet

@Cerberus You got a better word for it?

Cerberus

Maybe if you describe what "it" is, exactly?

Having sex is not culture.

alphabet

02:41

I mean the system of (say) hookup apps, and weird sex parties, and obscure parts of public parks. (Not that I spend much time in the latter two.)

And getting people 40 years older than you offering to pay you for sex. I am willing to bet that this is not an experience many straight men have had.

Cerberus

But those are different things?

I mean, sex parties and public cruising belong together, probably, but few gays do that.

Straights use Tinder for sex dates just the same way.

Being offered money for sex: that probably happens more often to women and gay men. But it isn't really an activity, you just reject it and you spent a minute of your life thinking about it, hardly a culture.

alphabet

I dunno. But I do think the overall attitude is different.

Cerberus

I think arranging sex between straights is just harder. That explains why some things happen there far less often.

I wouldn't call that culture?

alphabet

It depends on your definition of "culture." I mean the definition "The set of predominating attitudes and behavior that characterize a group or organization."

Cerberus

03:01

And what is the group?

I don't think the things you described are "attitudes shared by a social group".

Also because I think "gays" are not a social group / community. They are just a group like brown-eyed people.

alphabet

They're certainly more common among gay men.

Cerberus

Culture means people do something because they learn it from each other, a thing that is not caused by basic biology or human nature, but which is somewhat random, cultural.

@alphabet Just as sunburn is more common among white people?

alphabet

@Cerberus I dunno. I don't remember hearing people discuss "the history of the brown-eyed community" or "the brown-eyed rights movement" or seeing any "brown-eyed pride parade" or whatever.

Cerberus

@alphabet There could be a brown-eyed parade if it were a group of people with a shared interest in protesting some injustice or prejudice.

Like a parade of people in wheelchairs to protest against stairs in city hall.

There is no "THE gay community". What those people mean by "the history of the gay community" is just the history of a small subgroup of them who talked to each other socially, interacted, shared values and experiences: activists in the movement.

alphabet

That is definitely not what those people mean.

Cerberus

03:13

If they think all gays together share a 'culture', then I think that is a bit deluded.

alphabet

Idk about gay history in the Netherlands, but at least here it certainly refers to the community as a whole, not just to the actions of a few activists.

Cerberus

They don't even speak the same language, have completely different lives.

alphabet

It doesn't imply that this group is particularly cohesive.

Cerberus

What does a young homeless gay man in New York have in common with an old rich gay man in Paris and an average gay man in Gabon?

It is not cohesive enough to deserve the name community.

alphabet

Why? I'm not sure what you mean by "community"; you seem to have an oddly restrictive definition of the term.

Cerberus

03:17

Oct 21, 2022 at 20:53, by Cerberus

A community is a fairly small group of people who are closely connected socially, normally because they live together.

How about this?

alphabet

One might also distinguish between homosexuality (a pattern of sexual behavior) and the term "gay" (an invented identity that is pretty clearly a contingent cultural phenomenon).

Cerberus

A community is not just any group of people who have something important in common. That is just a group.

@alphabet This I would not favour.

alphabet

@Cerberus I dunno. People apply the term "community" all the time to groups that have only a fairly small level of overall cohesion.

Cerberus

I have heard that.

And I wonder, why do they not just use the word "group" instead?

alphabet

E.g. "the mining community" or "the autism community."

Cerberus

03:20

I think it would be inflation of the word's meaning.

@alphabet Yeah that sounds like ugly American marketing-people speak, sorry.

alphabet

@Cerberus It's just how the word "community" is used and commonly understood.

Cerberus

It is bad language. Sloppy and unclear.

It makes the truth harder to see and communicate.

alphabet

Feel free to use it to mean something more restricted if you want. But I hope you don't mind my using terms like "the gay community," since this sort of usage of the term is incredibly common and (to my knowledge) uncontroversial.

Cerberus

Using clear terms also makes one's thinking clearer.

I do mind it!

It is only used by a few wishy-washy people.

Perhaps worst of all: people only use this because it is part of a hype, people follow trends. They don't think for themselves.

<stamps off sulking>

alphabet

The phrase "the gay community" is extremely widely used. But feel free to sulk about people not using words with the meanings you want them to have.

Cerberus

03:25

Use your own mind instead of trusting what other people say.

If most people jump off a bridge, will you jump, too?

alphabet

I think we're just arguing over definitions. This seems unproductive.

I think we can agree that "gays" form a group within society, that certain attitudes and behaviors are substantially more prevalent within that group than outside it, and that that group has a distinct history of some sort.

That said, here's how TFD defines "community": A group viewed as forming a distinct segment of society: the gay community; the community of color

Cerberus

@alphabet Agreed.

@alphabet That is sloppy language, incorrect.

26 mins ago, by Cerberus

Culture means people do something because they learn it from each other, a thing that is not caused by basic biology or human nature, but which is somewhat random, cultural.

So I think some behaviour you see among gays is caused mainly by human nature.

alphabet

Some of it, yeah. I don't dispute that.

Cerberus

And, importantly: much of this behaviour you mentioned is only displayed by a small proportion of gays.

alphabet

As I said, it's a difference in prevalence and general acceptability, not some sort of sharp distinction.

Cerberus

03:35

Right, and I think that is mostly enabled by circumstances and human nature?

Meanwhile, I was trying to make GPT create a bridge that we could jump off. "Create a photorealistic image: a tiny, low bridge over a little, sandy creek with crystal-clear water."

I even added "without rocks".

GPT sucks.

alphabet

@Cerberus A mixture of human nature and historical contingency, depending on exactly what aspect you're talking about.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus Good. Rocks just melt, diluting the drink. Also, when it is cold, the flavors are muted.

Cerberus

It refused to make one without rocks.

Xander Henderson

Take it neat.

Cerberus

And it refused to make one that is very low above the water.

Xander Henderson

03:37

Or with just a tiny quantity of water.

Cerberus

@XanderHenderson I don't know: somehow I prefer some beverages very cold, like beer and cocktails.

alphabet

And it says a lot about you that when your friends jump off a bridge en masse, your first thought is apparently 'my friends are all foolish and I won't be like them' and not 'are my friends ok?'.

Cerberus

@alphabet Not sure about this historical contingency.

It is the same around the world.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus IMO, beer is best at about 65 degrees Freedom.

Cerberus

@alphabet I was careful enough to say "most people" not "all your friends".

Xander Henderson

03:39

And I didn't drink a ton of cocktails.

Cerberus

@XanderHenderson Uhh I have no idea how cold that is.

But I really need my beer to be fridge cold, so 7 degrees or lower.

10 is ehh I'll still drink it.

alphabet

@Cerberus To choose a particularly blatant example: the association of gay people with rainbow-colored flags is clearly not rooted in biology.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus it's about 18 degrees Commie

Cerberus

@alphabet Neither is the association of a certain ribbon with a disease, I think it was cancer?

@XanderHenderson Umm that is room temperature, no thanks!

Are you English?

No foam?

So I think groups of gays may share some learned behaviour, yes.

alphabet

@Cerberus Yeah, that's my view.

Cerberus

03:44

But much of it I would say is less culture and more a logical consequence of their circumstances.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus exactly.

Cold kills the flavor.

Cerberus

My mother's friend's husband knew red wine must normally be served around room temperate.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus no...

Cerberus

So he insisted that it should be served at 30 degrees when we were in the south of France.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus that's a bit warm.

Cerberus

03:45

@XanderHenderson That is true. But still.

Xander Henderson

Put some ice in it.

Cerberus

Ughh!

Too watery.

Xander Henderson

Heh. That is exactly my point!

Cerberus

We are not Romans.

Xander Henderson

NO ROCKS!

Cerberus

03:46

So ice should only be put into beverages that can get away with the water.

Xander Henderson

21 year old Auchentoshan needs no ice.

alphabet

@Cerberus I mostly agree. That said, different societies have had vastly different views of sexual orientation and different ways of classifying people in that respect.

Cerberus

Auchenwhat?

@alphabet Indeed.

Xander Henderson

@Cerberus auchentoshan.com/distillery-tours/experiences

Cerberus

But I think "I want sex with this person, so I will use inventive ways to get it" is kind of human nature.

@XanderHenderson Ah, I have not heard of it.

But do people drink whiskey with ice?

I don't think I ever have.

But things like fruit juices and beer I like cold.

Xander Henderson

03:50

@Cerberus Yes, some people do.

Some terrible, terrible people.

Anywho, bedtime.

alphabet

@Cerberus Indeed. My point at the start of this debate was that (say) anonymous hookups are both much more prevalent and much more widely accepted among gay people (though I can't say I have exact numbers) creating a substantial gap between the groups in this respect.

Cerberus

@XanderHenderson Sleep well, have a glass in bed.

alphabet

Switch to milk.

Cerberus

@alphabet More common: yes. More accepted: not compared to straight men?

alphabet

@Cerberus A substantial percentage of straight men will shame women for being too promiscuous; this isn't something gay men usually do to each other.

Cerberus

03:59

But that is about women, not men.

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