English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

CowperKettle

00:54

Geology of the day: diapir - A diapir (/ˈdaɪ.əpɪər/;[1][2][3] from French diapir [djapiʁ], from Ancient Greek διαπειραίνω (diapeiraínō) 'to pierce through') is a type of intrusion in which a more mobile and ductily deformable material is forced into brittle overlying rocks.

Xander Henderson

@CowperKettle I changed a lot of those when my daughter was a baby.

CowperKettle

@XanderHenderson Cool! I wish I had children

But I changed my little sister's

> Waist size +1cm associated with same reduction in cerebral blood flow as +1year age. sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…

Would be cool to visit the green area

tchrist

01:43

@CowperKettle Yesterday I passed two different couples on a walk/hike in the park, each speaking Russian.

alphabet

02:21

Louie the raccoon named winner of 2024 Cadbury Bunny tryouts

He's the first raccoon to win. A rare sign of progress in the fight against anti-raccoon prejudice.

Xander Henderson

@alphabet That's a g-d damned shame. It is a terrible comment about the state of the world that a trash-panda is hocking chocolate.

alphabet

@XanderHenderson How dare you engage in such blatant hate speech.

We do not like the term "trash pandas." We prefer "uncompensated sanitation workers."

Xander Henderson

Snowflakes like you are ruining 'merika.

CowperKettle

03:06

@tchrist What a coincidence! So did I!

""What heart could have thought you?—
Past our devisal
(O filigree petal!)
Fashioned so purely,
Fragilely, surely,
From what Paradisal
Imagineless metal,
Too costly for cost?

Who hammered you, wrought you,
From argentine vapour?—
“God was my shaper.
Passing surmisal,
He hammered, He wrought me,
From curled silver vapour,
To lust of His mind;—
Thou could’st not have thought me!
So purely, so palely,
Tinily, surely,
Mightily, frailly,
Insculped and embossed,
With His hammer of wind,
And His graver of frost.”

tchrist

Tinily

CowperKettle

06:29

The 2008 financial crisis is reflected here jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2816956

Lambie

13:15

@tchrist The question and answer were for Spain. That thesis is from Spain, not from Venezuela or Cuba or any other Spanish-speaking country.

tchrist

@Lambie Thank heavens.

Xander Henderson

#WhenTaken #35 (02.04.2024)

I scored 876/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 490 km - 🗓️ 10 yrs - ⚡ 156 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 6 km - 🗓️ 8 yrs - ⚡ 188 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 164 km - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 183 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 879 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 154 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 33 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 195 / 200

https://whentaken.com

jlliagre

13:32

#WhenTaken #35 (02.04.2024)

I scored 843/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 100 km - 🗓️ 20 yrs - ⚡ 145 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 7 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 196 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 158 km - 🗓️ 11 yrs - ⚡ 169 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 1229 km - 🗓️ 6 yrs - ⚡ 142 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 5 km - 🗓️ 7 yrs - ⚡ 191 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Xander Henderson

@jlliagre 4 got you geographically too, eh?

I also took a completely wild stab in the dark for 2, and got very lucky.

jlliagre

@XanderHenderson Yes, no real clues outside the overall atmosphere.

@XanderHenderson That one, I recognized it, plus the car licenses.

Xander Henderson

@jlliagre I actually saw a bunch of clues in that one, but those clues didn't do a lot to narrow things down geographically (temporally, yes; geographically, no). I think you needed to just recognize the building.

It is all about the cars.

jlliagre

13:56

@XanderHenderson I was quite lucky with #1. I hesitated between two or three states without any confidence.

Xander Henderson

@jlliagre Yeah, I messed that one up. I should have known (technically, it is where my parents were married).

But I ended up picking the wrong tourist trap. :D

tchrist

Do Americans "chase down" people but Brits "chase up" people?

Xander Henderson

@tchrist I have never chased anyone up.

But I have chased people down.

So that gives you a partial answer.

tchrist

14:11

Bizarrely, the OED has only to chase up not to chase down.

They also fail to mark it as UK-only.

The word down doesn't even occur anywhere on the page for the verb chase. This collocation occurs in only three citations throughout, all illustrating other words.

I noticed it because one of our company Brits used the expression just now, and it sounded a bit odd/off to me.

> I chased up with GENERIC-NAME (our GENERIC-PLACE contact) on Friday but he was out. I'll chase up again mid this week.

Robusto

#WhenTaken #35 (02.04.2024)

I scored 802/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 30.7 metres - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 196 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 1753 km - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 146 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 88 km - 🗓️ 5 yrs - ⚡ 186 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 1230 km - 🗓️ 17 yrs - ⚡ 113 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 29 km - 🗓️ 17 yrs - ⚡ 161 / 200

https://whentaken.com
Meh. Shoulda done better on that.

tchrist

Doesn't that sound odd?

The American use is transitive, while this one is intransitive.

To chase someone down is transitive. To chase up with someone is intransitive.

Robusto

@XanderHenderson You've never been there? I had to take the kids way back when.

user 85795

80.2% is nothing to meh about

Robusto

@user85795 It's not stellar.

tchrist

14:21

Someone I chased down. Someone I chased up with.

which we shall not put.

user 85795

It's still an A.

Robusto

@user85795 What? It's at best a very low B.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto I have been there. I used to live pretty close, after all.

It has just been a long time.

Robusto

But it's a guessing game. Guesses are always problematic.

user 85795

in highschool an A started at 86%

tchrist

14:24

@user85795 whut?

user 85795

In university it is 80%

tchrist

Never heard of such a thing.

Robusto

@user85795 What high school did you go to? In mine an A was 92-100. B was 84-92.

Xander Henderson

@user85795 Most American institutions which use percentages for grades assign an A over 90%, a B over 80%, and a C over 70%.

tchrist

An A is at least 92, 93.

We had a middling grade of AB in college for 87-92, but there there weren't any pluses or minuses either.

Robusto

14:25

@XanderHenderson Yes, but my high school (a Catholic prep school) was stringent about grading.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto I don't understand your reply to me---I did say "most", which gives a lot of room for variation.

user 85795

Ok, ok. It all gets curved any how.

tchrist

baruch-undergraduate.catalog.cuny.edu/policies-and-procedures/…

Robusto

@XanderHenderson I understand that. I'm merely saying mine was different from most.

Xander Henderson

An A- is still an A.

tchrist

14:26

@user85795 Depends.

Xander Henderson

(Lot's of institutions don't even do plusses and minuses.)

(Mine doesn't.)

tchrist

@Robusto Mine worked the same way as yours.

And that was a public school over the border, not the parochial one.

user 85795

4 out of 5 questions right is good enough to move on.

Robusto

In grad school we had minuses. Not sure about pluses. I got an A- in one course and I was quite upset.

tchrist

@user85795 Call it a batting average and rejoice.

Grad school grades are weird. A is normal, B is nearly failing, C is failing.

user 85795

14:30

You got it.

tchrist

You don't get credit towards your degree if you get a C for a class in grad school. It really is failing the class.

Robusto

@tchrist Yes. People forget that the best hitters ever in MLB made an out three out of five at-bats.

tchrist

I know.

Xander Henderson

@tchrist I don't necessarily see that as "weird". It is an acknowledgement that someone in grad school has already demonstrated the ability to be academically successful, and a statement about the expectation that they will continue to be successful.

You don't get into grad school if you are getting Cs more than a handful of times.

tchrist

I'm not suggesting it's abnormal. But people who haven't been aren't expecting it.

user 85795

14:34

@Robusto did you see Houston's no hitter last night

A 62 year record high.

Robusto

Grad school is both easier and harder than people expect. More freedom, but more responsibility.

@user85795 I did not. The White Sox are having another shite year, so I'm not too interested.

tchrist

@XanderHenderson I remember when a "new" professor fresh out of one of the very top universities in the field taught a class that allowed both grads and undergrads into it, and stirred up a big stink because he had graded them equally.

Which means some slackers got Cs, no matter whether grad or undergrad.

And this was a problem. But they were still slackers.

Robusto

@tchrist Why the stink? If undergrads are good enough to get in, they should be good enough to do well.

Xander Henderson

@tchrist I don't have a problem with that. The typical way to distinguish graduates from undergraduates in such a course is to give more work to the graduates, not to grade them differently.

tchrist

@Robusto They did. It was some of the grads who didn't work hard enough.

Robusto

14:38

In high school we had a kid who was going to Northwestern for math in the afternoon. He was acing his courses there, but had to start his days in our school for all the other courses (which, btw, he also aced).

Xander Henderson

@tchrist Yeah, but that comports with my point above: graduate students should already be A/B students. The expectation is that they will do the work to get mostly As. I'm comfortable with them getting Cs in a mixed class if they aren't doing the work that wouldn't earn an undergraduate a B.

user 85795

Graduate students should be focused on research.

tchrist

@XanderHenderson Which is precisely what occurred. The professor held his ground, and no grades were rescinded at the end of the day.

Robusto

@user85795 That depends on the discipline.

Xander Henderson

@user85795 Depends on the program and the field.

Robusto

14:39

jinx

Xander Henderson

In mathematics, it typically takes two years to get yourself up to speed for research, even if you come from a strong undergraduate program.

There is some coursework you are going to have to do before you can start doing real work.

tchrist

Sometimes grads from different degree requirements for their undergrad need to take top-level undergrad classes in the degree as a form of catchup.

Xander Henderson

In other fields, it might be possible to start research earlier, but there will typically be some coursework that you need to do in order to get to the point where you can start intelligently talking about more specialized research.

tchrist

You see this from time to time with compsci grad students whose undergrad degrees were in math or physics or engineering rather than in computer science.

Robusto

My son wasn't interested in pursuing a doctorate, but got his Master's almost entirely on course work. He still had to do a thesis (Biology) and had to do research for that, but that's not the same kind of research.

Now all he does is research.

Well, except for meetings and all that crap.

user 85795

14:45

No more poker games?

Robusto

Different son.

user 85795

Ok

Robusto

My gambler son has cooled on poker since he became a father. But he's made enough money already to be easy about that. It really surprised me, the change that's come over him. But it makes me happy.

user 85795

Nice.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto At a lot of American institutions, a masters degree is a kind of "consolation prize" for not finishing a PhD. If you finish your coursework and pass your quals, you get a masters. Once you finish your thesis, you get a phd.

A few people in my phd program opted for this route every year, and it is how my mother got her masters (though I think she also did her orals, but dropped out to have kids).

Robusto

14:50

@XanderHenderson I can ask him about that, but at Harvard I believe a thesis gets you a masters and you need a dissertation for Ph.D.? I can ask him about that.

Xander Henderson

@Robusto In mathematics, "thesis" is a synonym for "dissertation". I don't know why.

Robusto

He said in his field a Ph.D. pigeonholes you too much, and that the Ph.D. has a shorter "sell-by date." But that's Biology. Perhaps Mathematics is more eternal?

user 85795

A desertion is defending your thesis.

Robusto

I would stand up and say, "My thesis needs no defending!" ;-)

user 85795

That would make you too vulnerable and defenseless pal.

Xander Henderson

14:58

@user85795 Perhaps originally, but that isn't typically the way in which the word is used in the US.

The dissertation is the document.

According to the University of California, the document I turned in at the end of my phd is a dissertation, not a thesis, despite the fact that everyone calls it a thesis.

user 85795

So you never had to answer questions about your research to a panel of professors?

Xander Henderson

@user85795 I did. That was the "dissertation defense".

user 85795

ok

Xander Henderson

I also had a masters thesis defense when I completed my masters degree.

(and there, the document was called a thesis, because theses are typically completed at the bachelors and masters level, and dissertations are completed at the phd level).

user 85795

That answer's @Robusto question about a thesis gets you a masters and you need a dissertation for Ph.D.

@tchrist wtf 93% for an A?

and no A+

Xander Henderson

15:16

@user85795 Yes, but I specifically chose to write a masters thesis. Most people in my program chose to take exams, instead.

I just didn't want to take more tests.

TaliesinMerlin

@user85795 That's how a couple of schools I've taught at did grading. Personally, I prefer having no - or + grades. It's simpler, and I get fewer students trying to bargain grades post-semester.

user 85795

Yeah, exams are stressful.

CowperKettle

I've been to a geneticist, and again this triple room-numbering system.

You can see Room 213 in three places here.

The use of electronic screens is everywhere.

They took blood samples for 5 dry blood spots on a paper sampler to test for the most prevalent metabolism defects, which I'm 99.99% sure I don't have. But at least I could exclude that, and it's free of charge.

user 85795

I only see two 213s

CowperKettle

@user85795 There's also one right on the door

Snow has mostly thawed off

user 85795

15:24

I see it now, thnx

CowperKettle

Car parts have been almost all stolen off

user 85795

What a ghetto

CowperKettle

No, it's a nice district.

I haven't seen cannibalized cars anywhere, this is a rare exception

user 85795

For thieves

tchrist

@user85795 That's normal — unless you go to one of those B-list schools. :)

CowperKettle

15:30

The geneticist said that having an area of gliosis suddenly appear in one's tectum is not things as usual for an age of 45, but she has no idea what the cause could be.

user 85795

The curve needs to be normalized for that to be normal pal

@CowperKettle have you gone to a neurologist yet.

CowperKettle

There are mounds of dirty snow skirting the sidewalks, but one could feel Spring in the air already - tomorrow it will reach a shirt-wearing temperature of 15°C

@user85795 Yes, and she also said "it's not a normal wear and tear presentation for a 45 yo man", but that I should "not delve deep into that and not overthink that", since what is the difference if I know the cause or not

user 85795

Sure, they know very little about the brain

CowperKettle

She also said she does not know the cause of the "minimally expressed hydrocephalus ex vacuo of the frontal and parietal lobes, GCA grade 1", but that I should not get that into my head, since my brain volume has reduced anyway, so there's no need of overcrowding it

user 85795

Are you in any pain.

CowperKettle

15:41

No

I only have weird sensations in the left side of the body when I stop injecting insulin, although I don't have diabetes. When I start on insulin, they diminish and vanish

I told all that to the geneticist, so she took some samples.

And I have "depression", and my translation speed decreased from 10-20 pages/day to 0.5-1 pages/day.

Xander Henderson

@CowperKettle I am kind of surprised to see that a street named Lenin is still called that.

jlliagre

16:01

There are several streets named Lenine in France, but only one named Staline. Some people complain about it.

The winner is:

Ah: allthatsinteresting.com/pickaway-ohio-hitlers

Mitch

16:37

"Do you have anything to declare?"
"I have nothing to declare except my genius!"

MetaEd

"Dear Lord: Please make my words sweet and tender, for tomorrow I may have to eat them."

Mitch

> Prayer is the key to Heaven
But faith unlocks the door
Words are so easily spoken
Prayer without faith
Is like a boat without an oar

But, and hear me out, a key is what unlocks a door, so faith is also the key? So prayer also unlocks the door? I just want to know where I should concentrate my energy.

Also, I'd rather have a boat without an oar instead of an oar without a boat.

I'm just trying to understand.

Xander Henderson

17:10

Okay, I think that the whole thing is nonsense, but perhaps one can argue that it is not actually the key which unlocks a door, but the action of turning the key in the lock. Prayer is the key, faith is the action of turning the key?

(Though this actually seems backward, since prayer is an action, and faith is not...)

Regarding the boat, if you are in a boat without an oar, you likely aren't going to get anywhere. The idea of an oar without a boat seems orthogonal to this silly little poem.

Mitch

18:39

@XanderHenderson If you're in the boat at least you have a chance.

Robusto

18:49

@Mitch Thank you, Mr. Wilde.

jlliagre

Wordle 1,018 6/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟨🟨⬛⬛
⬛🟨⬛⬛⬛
🟨🟨⬛🟨🟨
🟨🟩🟨🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Daily Octordle #799
9️⃣3️⃣
6️⃣🔟
8️⃣4️⃣
7️⃣🕚
Score: 58

Robusto

Wordle 1,018 4/6

⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
⬛⬛🟩⬛⬛
⬛🟨🟨⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

Daily Sequence Octordle #799
5️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 71

La palabra del día #817 6/6

⬛⬛⬛⬛🟨
🟨⬛⬛⬛🟩
⬛🟨⬛🟩🟩
🟨🟩⬛🟩🟩
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

https://lapalabradeldia.com/

Xander Henderson

@Mitch Sure, but you are the person who brought up the idea of an oar without a boat. I think that the poem is comparing the situation of being in a boat without a paddle to being in a boat with a paddle.

Robusto

19:06

Daily Octordle #799
4️⃣5️⃣
7️⃣🕚
🔟3️⃣
6️⃣9️⃣
Score: 55

Daily Sequence Octordle #799
3️⃣4️⃣
5️⃣6️⃣
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
Score: 52

@jlliagre Wow, did I get lucky on the sequence today.

All my 4/5 guesses hit the jackpot.

jlliagre

Le Mot (@WordleFR) #814 4/6

⬛🟩⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟩⬛⬛🟨
⬛🟩🟨🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

https://wordle.louan.me

Robusto

19:27

@jlliagre Le Mot -> motel

jlliagre

@Robusto That would be a good starting word for that one.

Robusto

Heh.

jlliagre

Ho indovinato questa parola italiana di 5 lettere in 3/6 tentativi.

⬛⬛🟨⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Riesci a indovinare questa parola?
https://wordlegame.org/it?challenge=YW5jaGU

#ElMot 823 5/6

⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
⬜🟨⬜⬜🟩
⬜🟨⬜🟨🟩
⬜🟨⬜🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

#WordleCAT
elmot.gelozp.com

Latin Wordle 92 6/6

⬜🟨🟨⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜🟨🟩
🟩⬜⬜🟩🟩
🟩⬜⬜🟩🟩
🟩⬜🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Phew!

Robusto

19:43

@jlliagre You're really going through the puzzles today. You should do a Blossom to round things out.

jlliagre

@Robusto I gave up on blossom. The wordles are quick and rewarding. I spent too much time on blossom for frustrating results.

Robusto

@jlliagre That's just because you got frustrated too quickly. I think you'd do great if you gave it a little more time.

jlliagre

No, I probably spent one hour or so on the last one I played. My English vocabulary is too limited. I can guess five letter words I don't really know, but that doesn't work with 12 letter words.

Robusto

If I start drawing blanks on any puzzle, I put it away and come back to it later. Let my subconscious mind do the work so I don't have to. ;-)

jlliagre

20:10

@Robusto Here you go:

Blossom Puzzle, April 2
Letters: D F N E O R U
My score: 296 points
My longest word: 9 letters
💐 🌻 🌹 🏵 💮 🌼 🌷 🌸 🌺

It told me I'm a genius, but I'm skeptical :-)

Robusto

@jlliagre Good job!

Just four more points and you'd be a "Blossom Boss"!

So ... > 200 = genius, > 300 = blossom boss

Mitch

@Robusto I left my inner child with my feminine side so my 13 year old self can wqtch my wild twenties do some adulting. The old man over my shoulder is shouting something.

Robusto

@Mitch Probably "Get off my lawn!"

Mitch

@XanderHenderson Look man if a guy can't make it clear if a prayer is a key or a lock or a latch or door stop then handing him an oar ain't gonna help.

@Robusto To be fair, he just raked it.

Robusto

Blossom Puzzle, April 2
Letters: D F N E O R U
My score: 315 points
My longest word: 11 letters
💮 🌺 🌹 🌷 💐 🏵 🌼 🌻 🌸 💮 🌺

@jlliagre I was only 19 points better. That's nothing.

Mitch

20:18

@user85795 Defense by retreat.

Robusto

@TaliesinMerlin When I got an A- in one class, so did the rest of the class—except for one woman who bargained with the prof over Christmas. By the time we knew such a thing was possible, it was after the holidays and the grades were already in.

Dannyu NDos

Getting an A- must give such an ambivalent feeling.

Robusto

@DannyuNDos It was my only "not-an-A" grade in grad school. I felt no ambivalence, only consternation.

Dannyu NDos

Wait, what about A+?

Robusto

I suggest you delete the picture, since it will draw attention away from the actual answer you're looking for. — Robusto 20 secs ago

@DannyuNDos I only ever got those in high school. I don't think they gave them in either of the universities I attended.

Dannyu NDos

20:34

Typically A+ is either 4.5/4.5 or 4.3/4.3 ― Do you mean you had "A"s for 4.0/4.0?

Robusto

@DannyuNDos Yes.

Mitch

I have a story about grades for which there are two twists.

I got an A+ on a test in French in 3rd grade (spelling elementary words from dictation?).

First twist: I bald-faced cheated because the teacher had beforehand given out the sheet of words that the test was based on.

In my (sort of, half-assed) defense, I remember thinking it was odd that we had the key to the words right with us while the test was being given.

So at the time I didn't think I was cheating, just that this was an unusually easy test.

Second twist: The teacher... I hesitate to say this because it is so strange... the teacher gave out... well, she announced to the class that two students got perfect scores on the test... me and someone else... and... this is the extra strange part... she gave the two of us -prizes-. Not an award or a gold star, but prizes. I remember a frisbee, some chocolate and maybe a couple other things.

Crazy, right?

MetaEd

21:06

Wordle 1,018 2/6

🟩⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

Rootl game #306

🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩⬛⬛⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Robusto

Dannyu NDos

21:21

CMQ: Are sarcasms counterfactuals?

Robusto

Rootl game #306

🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

⬛⬛🟩🟩⬛🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@Mitch For shame.

@Mitch ^

If there is a word for infinity, why don't we have a word for finity? Isn't that a much easier concept? Discuss.

Dannyu NDos

Uhh... finiteness?

Robusto

@DannyuNDos Well, that's just not as finite as finity would be.

Why do we say infinity and not infiniteness?

English just don't make no sense.

Mitch

Finition

Finitude

17

no, 18

Robusto

21:36

If you think zero isn't infinite, try dividing by it.

Mitch

OK

Robusto

But I rest my case: English just don't make no sense.

Mitch

What happens when you divide by zero on mechanical calculator

►

Wait for it...

Dannyu NDos

@Robusto Just curious, but ever created a conlang?

If English "doesn't make sense", conlanging would be a good exercise. Or an exorcism.

Robusto

@DannyuNDos Nope, never done that.

So who is the "Be kind to Earth" guy?

Mitch

21:41

David Attenborough?

I don't recognize him either.

Robusto

@Mitch Thank you. Yes, it must be so.

David Attenborough

Sir David Frederick Attenborough (; born 8 May 1926) is a British broadcaster, biologist, natural historian and author. He is best known for writing and presenting, in conjunction with the BBC Natural History Unit, the nine natural history documentary series forming the Life collection, a comprehensive survey of animal and plant life on Earth. Attenborough was a senior manager at the BBC, having served as controller of BBC Two and director of programming for BBC Television in the 1960s and 1970s. First becoming prominent as host of Zoo Quest in 1954, his filmography as writer, presenter and narrator...

Mitch

@Robusto If it's not right, it should be right.

I don't think I've ever seen his face.

Robusto

@Mitch Close enough for rock'n'roll.

Mitch

What will happen after he's gone?

Robusto

The Earth will perish.

Mitch

21:44

All the animals will shy away from the camera.

Robusto

@Mitch As well they should.

Mitch

Flowers will stop growing.

Robusto

"There should be 13 months in a year." —Magnus Carlsen

I rest my case.

Mitch

Make it so.

Dannyu NDos

This question suddenly popped up, but: There is a past form of English gerunds, namely "having V-ed". But is there a future (scheduled) form? "being going to V" maybe?

Mitch

21:51

What is this, the gerundocracy?

Dannyu NDos

?

Mitch

Present simples of the world, unite!

You have nothing to lose but aspect!

Robusto

@DannyuNDos Rhymes with gerontocracy, sort of.

Mitch

Speaking of which, should we bring back aspic or let it go?

Robusto

@Mitch Stop pecting your as.

Mitch

21:53

looks over shoulder

Jam that pectin, you fruit.

Oh man I am -so- relieved. I just finished youtube shorts. I saw -all- of them.

Now I'm moving on to this tiktok thing. No spoilers!

But really, does it end well?

Robusto

Not yet, unfortunately.

Xander Henderson

@Mitch this is why I don't read poetry.

Mitch

22:45

@XanderHenderson I know! All them fancy two dollar words and ambiguity and shit

And all that -feeling-.

Just too much

Just say what you mean. Then mean what you say. Say everything that is necessary but don't say more than that

Be concise but not too concise.

Don't be obscure, but don't insult my intelligence.

Know your audience yet don't leave anyone out.

Eat your vegetables but have dessert.

Keep your head in the clouds but your feet on the ground.

alphabet

@DannyuNDos It would be more accurate to say that the auxiliary have, which marks the perfect aspect, can be used as a gerund (or "gerund-participle" if you like H&P's terminology).

It marks aspect, not tense per se.

Mitch

We've been gerunding a lot lately, haven't we.

Cerberus

23:08

@alphabet Right, it means something happens before something else.

Actually, I rescind that.

The perfective aspect is in the past participle, not in have.

alphabet

23:22

@Cerberus On the one hand, past participles on their own are treated as perfective. On the other hand, have marks the perfective aspect even when its complement is missing: "I haven't seen the movie, but they have."

Cerberus

I don't think that proves anything?

"Have" does not mark the perfective aspect: it is just that, in this context, the second clause has an elliptical past participle.

alphabet

What's important is that "have" is the head of the verb phrase; it takes as a complement a past participial clause. Granted, past participle verb forms really only occur in situations where they're treated as perfective.

Cerberus

> It isn't she who has seen the film, but he. → The word "he" marks the perfective aspect.

Xander Henderson

@Mitch Gerunds were the one aspect of Russian grammar I never really got the hang of.

Cerberus

Many people don't get the hang of Latin gerunds either, nor gerundives.

alphabet

23:28

Ah, but there neither "he" nor "she" is the subject of "has seen."

Both "she" and "who has seen the film" are complements of the stative, non-perfective verb "isn't."

English doesn't really have a consistent distinction between gerunds and present participles; there was one historically but the distinction has become rather blurry.

Cerberus

@alphabet Still, "he" marks the perfective aspect, because the final, elliptical clause is clearly about something that happened before.

alphabet

And unlike with past participles, there's no aspect consistently associated with present participles.

So, if you maintain that the past participle itself carries an aspect, then this makes it quite different from a present participle.

Mitch

Single words don't have a monopoly on meaning.

Language isn't compositional. No need to shoehorn everything into single words.

Robusto

@Mitch Sure, and all those songs should be boiled down to "You. Me. Let's do it together."

Mitch

@Robusto all Madonna songs could just be the word 'yeah'

Robusto

23:44

@Mitch Are you railing against single-word-requests again? Good, because I despise them. They are the Anti-Question on our little site.

Mitch

@Robusto 1) I like swr's. I don't like other people's answers or comments on them.

2) again?

Robusto

OK, you still have about 1,329 more to go.

Mitch

C) some other third thing

IV) oh, no, I'm commenting on the aspect, elided have/he discussion by a dog and a raccoon

Also as usual it just ticked off a conversation I didn't have with someone else about compositionality so it gives me an excuse to say 'uh actually' at an inopportune and irrelevant moment.

Because of course a linguist stated that language is compositional and the needle scratched nails drew across a blackboard a pigeon dropped dead over perching on a ledge above a pot of stee

Robusto

@Mitch An' hows abou' a cup o' stee, luv?

Mitch

It's probably one of those things like 'There is no past tense in English' like it's missing a bunch of qualifiers that only linguists care about.

Robusto

23:56

Agreed.

Mitch

@Robusto more of a thin gruel

Robusto

Except future tense, which doesn't exist in English, and yet we do manage to make our appointments on time.

Mitch

@Robusto oh

Yeah

That's what I meant

Robusto

What did we do before there was Google calendar?

Mitch

Let's call it full word typo and also a day

Or a thinko

@Robusto I went on long walks.

That's about it though.

I remember books were a thing.

Robusto

23:59

Books? What are those?

Mitch

It's complicated

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…