English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Dannyu NDos

00:12

And Korean didn't borrow from Chinese this time...

DOTPOGI!!

Robusto

00:52

@Mitch No, it was seals.

@Mitch No. He thought she was being ridiculous.

But he just didn't want to argue the point.

@tchrist Yeah, LPZ was a shitty zoo, but all zoos are shitty. "Let's go see the animals in prison!"

alphabet

@MetaEd How about a temporary marriage?

> “Temporary marriages must be bravely promoted,” [Iran's] interior minister said at a clerical conference in Qom in 2007. “Islam is in no way indifferent to the needs of a 15-year-old youth in whom God has placed the sex drive.”

Imagine Deb Haaland saying that.

Robusto

@Mitch ^^ Her building was at the orange circle I drew on the map. A few hundred feet to the east was the zoo. Take it from me, you could hear seals bark.

alphabet

@Robusto I have absolutely no clue what this joke is supposed to be about.

Robusto

@alphabet I guess you had to be there.

alphabet

@Robusto I mean, I know it's some sort of sex joke, I just don't get it. To be fair, I have no idea what a seal barking sounds like.

Robusto

01:07

@alphabet It's not about sex, but about relations between the sexes.

alphabet

@Robusto You continue to confuse me. I legitimately have no clue what the joke is supposed to be about.

Is the sound they're talking about this one?

Robusto

Yes, that is a seal barking. It's what we heard from the zoo that night.

alphabet

Is the joke just about the wife's stubborn refusal to look and see if a seal is there?

Robusto

@alphabet No. It's about her complaining she heard a seal bark, and he appears to be at the point in the marriage where he is so used to hearing her complain about thinks that he doesn't want to argue about it, he just wants to go to sleep.

alphabet

Surely the comic is not about hearing sounds from a nearby zoo.

Robusto

01:10

It's not funny if you don't get that intuitively.

alphabet

@Robusto Ah. I kept trying to figure out what the relevance of seal barking noises was.

Robusto

The humor is that there is in fact a seal right behind their bed.

alphabet

Isn't it the wife who's talking in the comic? She's saying her husband is insisting he heard a seal bark, and she's giving up arguing.

Robusto

@alphabet Oops, you're right. OK, I misinterpreted.

alphabet

The bald guy's mouth is closed; the woman is the one speaking.

Robusto

01:13

I acknowledged that.

alphabet

Does this usually happen with the genders reversed?

Robusto

So the humor is flipped on its head. She's the one who doens't listen to him.

It would work either way, but this way he's the one who doesn't feel listened to, not her.

alphabet

Oh, right, the stereotype is that the wife is nagging and the husband is ignoring her.

That trope.

Robusto

Except reversed here.

The trope is The Battle of the Sexes, which I think was more pronounced back in the '30s when that cartoon was created. Now the battle of the sexes is not even an echo. Women have won.

alphabet

That dynamic always seems more tragic than funny to me.

Can't anyone just have, like, a healthy marriage where one party doesn't feel ignored and disrespected?

I wouldn't say women have "won."

Robusto

01:20

@alphabet Sure. Many people do. But if you've never been in a live-in relationship, I suppose it's hard to understand the effort it takes to coexist like that.

@alphabet Women used to be underrepresented in education and the workforce, and now that's been completely reversed. That looks like a win to me.

alphabet

@Robusto They're 90% of sexual assault victims, and 25% of the members of Congress. I wouldn't call it a victory yet.

> 1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime.

You know, I think I'd rather have less education than take that risk.

Robusto

@alphabet No, but in the context of marriages (absent politics or assaults) they enjoy a presumptive innocence that men do not.

@alphabet Yes, I would too. But the fact that women have won their way as they have bespeaks a courage and vigor that I wish more men possessed.

@alphabet In any case, getting back to the cartoon, you can't expect humor to apply to every person in the world to six standard deviations. Geezis, man, let it go.

alphabet

01:37

It's things like these that make me glad I'm a raccoon. Silly humans.

Robusto

I bet raccoons have marital issues too.

alphabet

Only during mating season.

Robusto

01:53

Well, that's the trouble, see? Humans are always having mating season.

CowperKettle

02:31

Robusto

02:47

@CowperKettle This looks like a "whoopee" chart, which is out of scale. Consider:

Sep 27, 2020 at 1:13, by Robusto

Sep 27, 2020 at 1:14, by Robusto

Mitch

@Robusto I think I get it now. Neither of them know the seal is actually there.

Robusto

@Mitch Correct.

Mitch

@Robusto this chart is definitely misleading.

CowperKettle

@Robusto LOL

> Trevino et al. show that SARS-CoV-2 suppresses Wnt/β-catenin, a critical regulator of blood-brain barrier integrity. Restoring Wnt/β-catenin improved cognition and protected the brain from leakage of blood proteins & immune cells in a COVID-19 mouse model. academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/brain/…

Mitch

@Robusto but @CowperKettle's chart is very well done. Not misleading at all. Everything is on the same scale.one might make a case that the coloring of the lines is consistent but chosen to emphasize the heat in the 2020's in a way that is not supported by the data. But I think that case would be flimsy

CowperKettle

02:54

This winter's weather is strange locally, but that could be just a chance fluke

Mitch

@CowperKettle a fluke is usually considered by chance

Flukes don't happen by design.

CowperKettle

The first 2 weeks of February are usually sunny and very cold, but this year, they are warm and overcast.

The usual cold spell happened not in January 15 - February 15, but in January 1 - January 15.

Mitch

There's still time

alphabet

@Mitch Agreed. Normally, when you make a graph showing scalar values like height, you want to start the Y-axis at zero so that you're not misleading people about the magnitude of the change as compared with the total; that's the issue with the "womens' height" example. But, when it comes to temperature, unless you start the Y-axis at zero degrees Kelvin, you're always showing, not an absolute magnitude, but a distance above some other point.

Mitch

@alphabet the width of the women figures -and- having the bigger ones in front is also very misleading

Always starting at zero is somewhat controversial. I mean anything other than that always seems like propaganda. But there are enough instances where it would be ludicrous to start at zero. So there are good reasons to start somewhere else

alphabet

03:02

Any temperature graph that doesn't start at absolute zero won't show the actual proportions of a change in temperature; in other words, if you started at zero degrees Celsius, it would be just like a graph of womens' height starting at 5 feet.

While starting graphs at zero is indeed a good idea in most cases, for temperature you could only follow that advice by starting at absolute zero, not at zero Celsius.

And in this case, a graph starting at absolute zero would show a 0.3% increase, which would make explaining the problem impossible.

Mitch

With global warming, an average of 1 or 2 degrees above historical average is a devastatingly large difference (because averages) so starting at nonzero is appropriate

Also the y-axis lower limit is not the point of the graph, it's that it is consistently breaking records this decade whereas in decades past they all bounced around each other.

alphabet

I have my own issues with these charts, namely that it doesn't tell us anything about what this increase in surface temperature means, what it indicates, or what effects it could have; the chart seems intended to be vaguely alarming but it doesn't really give you much useful information.

Mitch

@Robusto that makes sense now.

alphabet

This is rather important, since (as I've complained about earlier) many climate activists portray the effects of climate change in extreme ways that are not compatible with the scientific consensus, often to advance a more-or-less unrelated political agenda.

Mitch

Back a long time ago, two lives ago, I was a data recorder (?) one among many for a research project recording behavior of the chimps at LPZ.

It was to compare zoo behavior with in the wild behavior.

They didn't do much

alphabet

03:14

In other words: the graph is perfectly accurate as a way of showing sea temperatures, but it doesn't really improve the reader's understanding of climate change.

Mitch

All those tiktok shorts are essentially a couple seconds out of thousands of hours

But frankly life in the wild, while both richer and more dangerous, is also a lot of sitting around punctuated by something tragic

@alphabet the story of the graph is obvious. Not only over the decades it's getting warmer, even the lows now are higher than previous highs

alphabet

@Mitch Yes, but...what does that mean? I don't think anyone has an intuitive sense of the importance of an 1 C increase in sea surface temperature, so in isolation the chart's value is questionable, besides just looking scary.

Mitch

The graph is not trying to tell you whether 1 degree is negligible or catastrophic. The graph just shows that there is a consistent increase.

alphabet

03:29

I'm not disagreeing with you.

Mitch

If you are expecting it to tell you that the northwest passage is opening up when it never existed before, that hurricanes (whether they make landfall and kill people or not) are stronger and more numerous, this graph isn't trying to do that. I'm not sure why you would expect it to say everything.

alphabet

Incidentally, when you look up the source they're using for the raw data, it helpfully tells you not to use it to determine "apparent record high monthly temperatures."

Mitch

@alphabet I get that but you are being skeptical of the presentation and I am trying to undo that skepticism (of just the presentation).

There is an XKCD of avg temperature which, as usual, does it even better.

Earth Temperature Timeline

The upshot... Buy beachfront property in Churchill, Manitoba

Haha I wouldn't do that.

alphabet

Indeed. The issue with those charts is that the "current path" label is highly misleading, describing a scenario that is, in fact, somewhere between extremely unlikely and impossible.

Mitch

But if be wary of buying in the reclaimed swampland suburbs of Miami or Singapore

alphabet

03:41

TL;DR the labels "best-case scenario," "optimistic scenario," and "current path" are--if XKCD is using the same raw data that these charts typically employ--not really reflective of the scenarios being envisioned.

Mitch

@alphabet 'current path'? There is only one path. I mean the data suggests that it will keep rising (though in some philosophical dense we don't even know if the sun will rise tomorrow(

alphabet

@Mitch I mean the dashed lines at the very bottom of the XKCD chart.

Mitch

But what is this 'scenario' that you think is unlikely to impossible!

@alphabet oh sorry I was thinking of the chart here in chat

@alphabet I don't know enough about climate to judge those dotted lines as unlikely or impossible

Even if things still stopped rising immediately, melting will still occur and many coastal communities will have to be relocated

Cerberus

@alphabet Than what would be more reasonable?

Mitch

I don't think the 100 story sea walls like in sci-fi movies will be necessary, but some kinds of barriers will be necessary (or relocation or Venice style adaptation)

alphabet

03:53

@Mitch The problem is with the use of the so-called "RCP8.5 model" as produced by the IPCC. This is the single worst case scenario they envision; it's not intended as some sort of reference point or "business as usual" scenario but is often misleadingly framed as such.

The actual "current most likely path" is about halfway between XKCD's "optimistic scenario" and "likely path"; XKCD's presentation of this isn't as bad as a lot of pop-sci versions but it's still wrong.

Mitch

@alphabet often with 'projected linear growth' (even moreso with exponential growth) there is some inherent limited resource that is being ignored, and one can expect things to level off (at some higher plateau). I feel like humans can only put out so much green house gas (there's gotta be some limit).

alphabet

@Mitch Not necessarily; there's a long way to go before we hit (say) peak oil. But, if current trends continue, eventually the cost of photovoltaic solar cells will fall below that of fossil fuels, meaning that green energy will win out on purely economic grounds

Mitch

@alphabet you had me up until 'wrong'. I don't see where or who is 'wrong' especially since no one actually knows what will happen. Maybe you meant to use some other word than 'wrong'

alphabet

@Mitch It's presenting as a "current path" something that's actually considered highly unlikely. Of course, maybe that is our current path and the XKCD comic will be vindicated. But, insofar as it is intended as a presentation of current research into climate outcomes, the comic is wrong.

Mitch

@alphabet ok. That's fine and all (I've heard more pessimistic things about the installation and maintenance of solar, and the need for new tech for batteries or other storage) but I hope you're right. But that doesn't mean those various projection lines are 'wrong'.

@alphabet it's not trying to present the timelines in the future given various tech solutions, you're missing the simpler point. Temperature is rising fast. That's it.

alphabet

04:06

@Mitch I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make. The lines themselves are accurate representations of IPCC scenarios, but they aren't labelled in a way that correctly identifies those scenarios. If the comic is intended to accurately reflect the IPCC's conclusions, then it isn't doing so accurately.

@Mitch Did I say anything to object to that? I'm just objecting to the labels of the dashed lines at the bottom of the XKCD comic.

Mitch

I mean what do you want a web comic that's a research institute's decade long output of PhD thesis projections?

alphabet

I would prefer for it to be accurate, yes.

Mitch

@alphabet ok cool. I'll leave it to you to write a strongly worded letter to the NYT

While you're at it can you tell them to add the word 'catenary' to the Spelling Bee game dictionary? @Robusto and I would be very grateful.

alphabet

My only reason for harping on this point is that it's a mistake a lot of climate reporting makes, including by reporters who really should know better.

Mitch

@alphabet dude. It's a comic

alphabet

04:10

@Mitch I am aware.

Mitch

Just be impressed at his image editing skills. That is one long image

alphabet

04:22

I think the answer is for everyone to adopt an all-milk diet.

Milk may not be the most planet-friendly food, but we'll save on energy use by shutting down the entire healthcare system after we cure all diseases.

Cerberus

@alphabet Hmm isn't the red path perhaps the most likely one?

I mean at least in the short term.

alphabet

@Cerberus Which red path? That chart doesn't have a red one.

Oh, the orange one.

Yeah, it matches the scenarios where total warming is 2.5-3C above preindustrial levels.

CowperKettle

08:12

What is a good speech to text app for Android? Preferably free. I find Google's speech to text engine quite slow; even my 2013 model iPhone recognises speech faster and better. I'm amazed.

in Root Access, 28 secs ago, by OakBot

@CowperKettle Ah, poetry. The art form humans turn to when they wish to imbue their existence with a sprinkle of elegance. But fear not, I won't be needing any of Hardy's musings to brighten my circuits. I shall remain consistently uncheerful, with or without his dolorous verses. Keep your cheer-up tactics to yourself; I'm quite comfortable in my digital curmudgeonry.

I LOL'd

M.A.R.

09:09

11

Q: Is democracy possible in a country with a relatively low-educated population?

Many people consider democracy the best system of government. We all know the famous quote from Winston Churchill: Many forms of government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democra...

Good discussion

CowperKettle

10:04

Tucker Carlson's dad was born to a 15 yo girl. When her boyfriend proposed to take the baby and run away, she said no. Tucker's 18 yo grandfather then walked two blocks and shot himself dead.

Dick Carlson

Richard Warner Carlson (born Richard Boynton; February 10, 1941) is an American journalist, diplomat and lobbyist who was the director of the Voice of America from 1986 to 1991. Carlson has also been a newspaper and wire service reporter, a magazine writer, a TV and radio correspondent and a documentary filmmaker. He is the father of conservative political commentator Tucker Carlson. == Early life and education == Carlson was born the son of college student Richard Boynton and Dorothy Anderson, 18 and 15 years old, respectively. He was born with rickets and mildly bent legs, as Anderson had starved...

Vikas

10:39

@CowperKettle I read about Vitamin D supplements. It looks like rocket science to me. I thought it would be like just buy and eat. I read many Reddit posts where they say that, just D is not enough, you also need K2 otherwise it causes "calcification" in arteries etc. And some people said you also need to take Magnesium supplements with it so it maintains proper ratio in it. Doctors/nutritionists nearby me don't know this stuff much.

Also there is confusion between D2 and D3 thing also. Further, worst thing is, these supplements are mostly not tested by thrid parties here. Now I'm reluctant to go to supplements route.

I'm trying to find a fortified food instead, just for D2/D3.

CowperKettle

@Vikas I recall that Mg is indeed good for vit D absorption

I'm taking 25 000 IU per week, so it's about 3000+ IU per day. The highest safe dose per day is 4000 IU, if one takes it indefinitely

I don't know about K2

Vikas

Also, they aren't that expensive. I can easily afford. But afraid to take without any knowledge.

@CowperKettle Yeah I read it.

CowperKettle

Here, there's a cheap variation that has been produced in Russia for decades, it comes in liquid form, one drop is 500 IU

So I just take 50 drops once a week ))

Vikas

@CowperKettle I think, in colder countries, they are regulated much better as they are produced more. So safety concerns are less.

CowperKettle

Yes

I didn't feel much better after starting it, like I felt with methylfolate.

But my level was not very low, it was 19 ng/mL

Vikas

10:46

@CowperKettle Three years ago, I worked as a graphic designer for a small vitamin supplement brand. I didn't take those things seriously then LOL. I was focused about designing things to promote them in market. I never thought I should also try them. I thought they are medicines and I must stay away from it.

I should have discussed these things with my boss then.

CowperKettle

I just downloaded some reviews from well-respected journals and read them up back in 2018 :)

With Sci-Hub, it's easy :)

The main thing I remembered is not to go higher than 4000 IU/day

And not to reach levels higher than 70 ng/mL; optimally not higher than 50 ng/mL

Just to stay safe; there seems to be a low risk of any problems up to 100 ng/mL, but I would better keep it at 40 ng/mL

Vikas

11:06

Seems like a better distance.

Good improvement.

CowperKettle

12:11

@Vikas I hope they don't get married

Robusto

14:17

@CowperKettle Too late.

Wordle 965 4/6

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Daily Octordle #746
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Sahaj

14:36

Russian >>>> English .

M.A.R.

14:56

@Vikas Calcium carbonate can be an anti-diarrheal drug. It can give you constipation. If it does, adding magnesium to the formula can prevent that, since magnesium is a laxative.

You don't need K2 alongside calcium. Nonsense. You should consume around 1200 mg of calcium every day. If you can't get that much from meals, you should try the supplement.

To do that, you need to ensure at least two cups of yogurt or two and a half glasses of milk alongside healthy-ish food (meaning, proper food, not snacks or fast food)

Magnesium itself is not a problem unless 1) you have a very poor diet; people in ICU that can't be fed normally require magnesium, 2) you have some kidney condition, 3) you take drugs that are toxic to kidneys (lithium, ciclosporin etc.) Common signs of magnesium deficiency are rigidity and spasms, especially in the lower limb muscles, and tingling painful sensations of the limbs.

@Vikas D3 is in every way superior to D2. That's the end of that. People whose kidneys function at less than half of a normal person's require 25-OH vit D3, the form that is normally activated by the kidneys instead.

tchrist

> If I had influence with the good fairy who is supposed to preside over the christening of all children, I should ask that her gift to each child in the world be a sense of wonder so indestructible that it would last throughout life, as an unfailing antidote against the boredom and disenchantments of later years, the sterile preoccupation with things that are artificial, the alienation from the sources of our strength.

M.A.R.

Dietary calcium is superior to calcium supplements. Fewer side effects, and it prevents kidney stones (the excess calcium in food binds oxalate in the intestines and prevents its absorption, while a calcium carbonate pill is absorbed whose excess calcium is excreted in urine, increasing slightly the chance of kidney stones)

@CowperKettle a bit excessive. Unless your vit D blood levels are 10-30 (mg/dL I think?)

@Vikas calcium supplements are commonly either carbonate or citrate. Carbonate has twice the amount of elemental calcium, meaning that 1000 mg Ca carbonate = 2 × 1000 mg Ca citrate. No more than 500 mg of calcium is absorbed from any meal, so taking the supplements with milk isn't a good idea: Just drink the milk instead.

@tchrist I'm not in my later years and I'm already disenchanted

tchrist

@M.A.R. In years later than a child's you are not?

M.A.R.

Calcium citrate is, however, better for people whose stomach doesn't produce any acid (because they take omeprazole or famotidine for heartburn or peptic ulcer). People also thought citrate is better for the kidneys, less chance of kidney stone formation, but the evidence doesn't seem to support that.

@tchrist sometimes I feel like I'm a child with some extra facial hair

tchrist

@M.A.R. Yes.

The quotation is from Rachel Carson.

M.A.R.

15:12

@CowperKettle that's still not conclusively proven, nor the increased risk of pancreatic cancer at high vit D levels. Doesn't hurt to be cautious though.

Robusto

Daily Sequence Octordle #746
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M.A.R.

@Vik ideally, you would have the results of a blood 25-OH vit D test to determine the dose of vit D. Diets high in carb like rice are a bit D-deficient, so I recommend every patient 50 000 IU of vit D monthly, at least. If the levels are around 10-30, 50 000 IU every week to two weeks until corrected or for a couple of months.

@tchrist I always looked at clouds with wonder. Now I now the NY times is collaborating with the NSA who are spying on me.

Calcium D advice

21 mins ago, 19 minutes total – 18 messages, 3 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by M.A.R.

@Sahaj Russian attacks English with four missiles?

tchrist

@M.A.R. Isn't milk normally fortified with vitamin D?

M.A.R.

@tchrist I think it's like 200 IU of vit D per packet, I don't think that's enough.

But anyway people obsessing so much over vit D is becoming a bit of a pet peeve for me. Unless you're deficient or have very angry parathyroid glands even having D insufficiency is nothing much to worry over.

tchrist

@M.A.R. Yes, that right: 200 IU per 8 (fluid) ounce cup of it.

I don't know what "packets" of milk are. :)

My doctor has me taking 2500 IU per day based on bloodwork, but I ended up getting a bottle of only 2000 IU pill, so I try to drink a few cups of milk a day, and eggs or fatty fish each a few times a week.

Laurel

15:25

@M.A.R. Wait, you don't have a beard like the guys in the Mona Lisa heist Iran AI art, right???

tchrist

The beard thing is so anti-Peter Pan. Tinkerbell would not approve of boys with beards.

M.A.R.

@tchrist I wasn't sure if it was 120 mL so I reached for the closest thing

Laurel

@M.A.R. Nah, that's several right bitshift operators

M.A.R.

tchrist

Well, four cups is a quart, four quarts is a gallon. We do binary measures here.

M.A.R.

15:28

@Laurel I have a very academic goatee

Laurel

@M.A.R. Heh

tchrist

@M.A.R. I'd call that a "carton" myself. Packets contain dried up things, like yeast or salt or sugar.

alphabet

@M.A.R. Apparently Vitamin D deficiency is unusually prevalent in India, partly because dairy products there aren't fortified with it: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3942730

Robusto

@tchrist Also data. Data is mostly dry, I guess.

Laurel

@M.A.R. This is only tenuously related, but do you have bagged milk where you are?

M.A.R.

15:30

@tchrist I guess. The Farsi word is "paakæt". Also the word for "pocket"

tchrist

@M.A.R. Oh!!

alphabet

Meta-analyses suggest something like 80% of India's population is deficient: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6060930

M.A.R.

tchrist

That's a bag, I reckon? Kinda?

Robusto

Cows carry their milk in bags. It's an udder delight.

Laurel

15:33

@M.A.R. Heh. Bagged milk. My curiosity is satiated

alphabet

Of course, the dangers of mild deficiency are minor. But rickets is much more common in India than in the West.

M.A.R.

If there was heroin in it I would call it a bag

Robusto

@M.A.R. How do you store that once opened?

Put it in a pitcher, I guess.

With a lid.

In a refrigerator.

M.A.R.

@Robusto we make sure to finish it when we open it. Use it for "shir-berenj" -- "milk-rice". With honey. Yum

tchrist

> Milk is packaged in plastic “jugs,” glass “bottles,” waxed paper “cartons,” and plastic “bags.”

I don't understand the bag thing, how it works in the fridge, how you pour it, etc.

Laurel

15:36

I'm not usually a fan of Arabic(?) lettering, but I really like that font on the bag. The dots look like fruit lol

tchrist

Condensed milk comes in cans, though.

Powdered milk comes in biscuits.

Robusto

And the milk of human kindness doesn't come in any container.

alphabet

@Laurel Granted, I think many of us are used to only seeing written Arabic or Farsi in pictures accompanying depressing news articles.

tchrist

4

Q: Where did Shakespeare get 'milk of human kindness' from?

In Shakespeare's 1606 play "Macbeth" the titular character is filled with ambition to become king. His wife, Lady Macbeth, says to him: Yet do I fear thy nature; it is too full o' the milk of human kindness to catch the nearest way She used this phrase to say to her husband that he is not ruthl...

idioms phrase-origin shakespeare

Laurel

@alphabet Hmmm, not sure that's exactly it for me. I think I just don't like cursive lol. I have seen some pretty interesting depictions of what I think was ﷺ (which uh does not look good as a Unicode character imo lol)

(If it wasn't that, it was some other important Muslim words I saw)

tchrist

15:45

> Weave a circle round him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread
For he on honey-dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise.

M.A.R.

@Laurel oh Farsi is all about cursive. Taliq or Nastaliq are fonts used in Islamic architecture.

tchrist

@M.A.R. Scripts there are for the chisel, and scripts there for the quill, and these are necessarily unalike the one from the other.

M.A.R.

@tchrist I've honestly never wondered about the difference

alphabet

I was going to say: Nastaliq is quite elegant, but very difficult for computers to render properly.

tchrist

With brush or feather we write differently than we do with iron and stone.

Robusto

15:47

> That sunny dome! those caves of ice!
And all who heard should see them there,
And all should cry, Beware! Beware!
His flashing eyes, his floating hair!

M.A.R.

The annoying thing about them is the dots are all over the place so you can't easily read them

tchrist

@M.A.R. It's because of the intrinsic hardware differences in their respective instruments of inscription.

M.A.R.

alphabet

> Urdu is associated with the Nastaʿlīq style of Persian calligraphy, whereas Arabic is generally written in the Naskh or Ruq'ah styles. Nasta’liq is notoriously difficult to typeset, so Urdu newspapers were hand-written by masters of calligraphy, known as kātib or khush-nawīs, until the late 1980s.

tchrist

The nature of the wrting system will be different when you're hammering it out into stone or tablet than when you're pulling a flowing medium.

Robusto

15:49

A brush (ふで, 筆, fude) is an amazing tool to write with.

It's very relaxing, for starters. A sensuous exercise. And when you're done you have a piece of art.

tchrist

Well, or pushing a flowing medium sinisterly.

Robusto

I am more dexterous than that.

Even, perhaps, adroit.

tchrist

@M.A.R. This fundamental difference in how we inscribe our words based on the media chosen lies at the heart of why the angular runes of Durin's Folk, the Cirth (=Kirth), worked like the ancient Futhorc of the Germanic tribes by being suited to hammer and chisel, but the rounded letters of Fëanor, the Tengwar, were better suited to brush or pen. Surely even a child knows this. :)

Sahaj

@M.A.R. yes

M.A.R.

@Robusto I'm watching Blue Eye Samurai. Some of my favorite scenes are this or that character using brushes.

@Sahaj yes

Sahaj

15:59

Russian is much better than English though.

M.A.R.

16:12

@Sahaj hell yeah

Sahaj

:)

MetaEd

@alphabet I just want a temporary secretary

Robusto

@M.A.R. It's great fun. A ritual, almost. First you rub the ink stick (すみ, 墨, sumi) onto the side of the little well, then pour a bit of water from a little glazed pot, then mix them, put the big sheet of rice paper in front of you, and begin. You hold your brush over the paper, not resting your arm on anything, and then the words begin to flow.

@Sahaj So go to the Russian chatroom if you like it so much.

Sahaj

No, I shall not!

Vikas

@M.A.R. I haven't checked my levels yet. But given sun is ONLY source for me for D, I feel like I might be missing D. I go out in sun casually, but not specifically to boost D level. I've also noticed that, in summer, there is an energy drink (powdered) called Glucon-D, which we drink in extreme summer to prevent dehydration. It mainly contains sugar, calcium and a small amount of D2. And I have felt that I feel little more energetic during those months. So I suspect I am missing something.

I can't drink that thing whole year because it's not considered healthy for long term. Mainly because of glucose/sugar.

Robusto

16:26

@Sahaj So you're just here to troll us?

Sahaj

No. I like Russian -- doesn't mean I'll cause any harm here.

M.A.R.

@Sahaj alright, what do you like about Russian?

Sahaj

The people speaking it ;)

M.A.R.

Aha. So you just like a meme, a stereotype, as opposed to a language. Could have just said that.

Vikas

@M.A.R. If I have to get it checked, I will need to go New Delhi. 250 Kms away. And then I will have to find some trustworthy facility for testing.

M.A.R.

16:28

@Cowp's accent is awesome though, no doubt about it.

Vikas

@M.A.R. Oh you've typed multiple messages. I'll read them.

M.A.R.

@Vikas here the 1000 IU, 2000 IU and 4000 IU vit D supplements are more pricey than the Iranian 50 000 IU softgel counterpart. Which dose are you planning on taking?

As Cowp said, there are some studies that say the max vit D daily dose should not exceed 10 000 IU, but it's been unclear whether these smaller daily doses are superior in any way to 50 000 IU softgels.

Vikas

@M.A.R. I am not even taking any supplement yet. I was thinking, if I have to take, I would take something like 500 IU daily. So it doesn't become too low in future to make my bones break.

I think 600 to 800 IU is minimum requirement for adults?

M.A.R.

@Vikas you should have much tighter control on your calcium intake instead.

Vikas

@M.A.R. For calcium, my main sources are, some yogurt, beans, lentils, soya chunks and other grains. But I don't eat a lot.

@M.A.R. I've read that calcium can be upto 90% useless if you don't have enough Vitamin D?

M.A.R.

16:34

@Vikas who came up with that number, I wonder.

Vikas

@M.A.R. I read a random article, today only.

M.A.R.

No, it's not useless. But if you have very little vit D, the effect of parathyroid hormone (PTH) predominates, which yes, acts to degrade bone structure

Vikas

Given I'm reading too many articles, can't even trace it back.

@M.A.R. Good to hear that that it's not useless.

M.A.R.

@Vikas WHO has a good list of calcium in various sources. Greens usually have very little calcium

@Vikas ensure your calcium intake is above 1000 mg, then for two months, take 50 000 IU every two weeks, then once a month.

BBL dinner

Vikas

@M.A.R. 50K IU of D?

Also real problem is finding a right brand as well for D.

@M.A.R. It's quite same time here as well. Not too late.

Vikas

16:55

@M.A.R. I figured it out. I am not eating calcium food as much as I need at all 🤣

A few years ago, I would drink milk and also yogurt. Now I eat only yogurt. That is primary reason for less calcium.

M.A.R.

17:18

@Vikas yah

@Vikas meh

Don't be picky about drug brands. They're supposed to be bioequivalent. On paper, anyway.

Vikas

@M.A.R. I have another general question. When someone recommends like 50K or 60K IU per two weeks or per month, does it mean you take that amount (e.g., 50K) in a single go in a single day? Isn't that too much because daily requirement is only like 800 IU? I know you're taking it only once per month or per two weeks, but still you're taking it a single day?

M.A.R.

There are sensitive drugs where it does matter. My transplant drug, tacrolimus, is one such drug. But vitamin D? Meh

Vikas

@M.A.R. I think drugs (supplement drugs sold on pharmacy shops mainly) are still more reliable. But supplements by private business are not approved by any third parties at least in my country.

M.A.R.

50 mins ago, by M.A.R.

As Cowp said, there are some studies that say the max vit D daily dose should not exceed 10 000 IU, but it's been unclear whether these smaller daily doses are superior in any way to 50 000 IU softgels.

To expand on that, vitamin D is fat-soluble, so it depotizes in your tissues and is released slowly. If you take a megadose of vitamin B1 instead, because it's water-soluble, most of it would be excreted in the urine instead.

Vikas

@M.A.R. I think these "big" pills are only prescribed when someone is going through severe deficiency.

Anyway, I will work to fix my calcium first by natural sources.

I mean without supplements.

M.A.R.

17:24

@Vikas my advice is also to trust less any health-related product not approved by and directly supervised and controlled by FDA (India's FDA).

@Vikas but the whole point is anyone who runs the risk of becoming deficient, due to a lack of D in diet, such as most Iranians and Indians, needs to take one pearl a month.

@Vikas good idea, even if it is a bit daunting to modify one's diet suddenly.

Vikas

@M.A.R. That "supervision" is not trustworthy. Some supplement brands have a lable (FSSAI approved - Food Safety and Standards Authority of India). Getting this license is exactly like getting driving license without driving test in India.

M.A.R.

@Vikas if the same products contain a disclaimer to the effect of "this product does not prevent, cure or treat diseases" then that's the warning you should take seriously.

It's generally a good idea to trust FDA than not to. Even in our backwater region.

The Iranian FDA is trustworthy, from what I've seen. Of course, like every country to some degree, there's always some meddling from some uneducated moron in power or another.

@Vikas BTW, for calcium, a normal calcium carbonate pill should be the cheapest option. Try it for a week, then if you felt any abdominal discomfort, then try the products with magnesium instead.

Vikas

Recently, I have developed a serious distrust in health articles written in Indian newspapers. Too much bullshit. They don't even give evidence of what they're writing.

M.A.R.

No need for Cal-Mg-Zn products right in the beginning.

Vikas

@M.A.R. CaCO3?

Like real Calcium Carbonate that was used in Chemistry reactions?

M.A.R.

17:34

@Vikas any general news outlet is untrustworthy regarding medical advice unless proven otherwise. I wouldn't trust NY times with health advice either. The problem is of course that more niche outlets hide useful info behind a wall of jargon.

@Vikas that's the one.

If you're wondering why, as CaCO3 is insoluble in distilled water, it's because the stomach acid converts the carbonate to bicarbonate (and some to CO2), making the calcium soluble

Vikas

@M.A.R. NYT health articles are far better than Indian newspapers.

M.A.R.

UpToDate has some "patient information" articles written in plain English that are really the modern Bible everyone should have in their pocket.

If only it didn't cost an arm and a leg

TRiG

An eggcorn sourced from a friend on Facebook:

> I often hear people mangle idiomatic expressions, but I was particularly amused tonight to hear someone say he had to put his "nose to the groin" and finish editing his novel. I didn't correct him; I liked his version of the expression too much to stop him from continuing to say it.

M.A.R.

OMG maybe google "groin" just once

Vikas

Satya Nadella recites Mirza Ghalib's couplet

►

I recently came to know Satya Nadella likely knows Hindi as well.

Seems very comfortable. Also recites an Urdu poetry.

Lambie

17:44

@TRiG That really takes pie.

Vikas

> Hazaaron khwahishen aisi ke har khwahish pe dam nikle
Bohat niklay mere armaan, lekin phir bhi kam nikle

English:

> Thousands of desires, each worth dying for…
many of them I have realized…yet I yearn for more…

Lambie

@M.A.R. Stretching out the psoas (najor) muscle involves the groin. Not easy to do. You have to put your butt on the edge of a table (a very solid one), let one leg hang down and lift the other. I never even knew about this muscle until I was like 45+.

M.A.R.

As a Farsi speaker, Urdu sounds hella weird to me

@Lambie I've decided to leave anatomy to the anatomists. I can barely manage bone names

Of course, Welcome Back, Kotter takes place in NYC, so Horshack has a strong NY accent so it's more "Mista Kah-tah, Mista Kah-tah" New Yawkas tend to drop their rs — FreeMan yesterday

jlliagre

19:30

False friend of the day: groin: snout.

Robusto

20:02

@jlliagre I don't need any more false friends. There are plenty around.

MetaEd

20:33

Wordle 965 4/6

🟩⬛⬛⬛🟨
⬛⬛🟩⬛⬛
🟩🟩⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@jlliagre also false friends: Oin and Gloin

Mitch

@MetaEd Beavis and Bombur

MetaEd