English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

jlliagre

00:43

Blossom Puzzle, January 2
Letters: A D E I L N T
My score: 283 points
My longest word: 9 letters
🌻 🌼 🌹 🌷 💮 💐 🌸 🌺 🏵
Never been so close to your score. Exhausting.

Robusto

@jlliagre Good job!

jlliagre

@Robusto After reviewing my words, I see that could have reach 286. Flûte !

Robusto

@jlliagre Bonne chance la prochaine fois.

jlliagre

Thx

Robusto

00:59

@jlliagre Is Flûte ! an expletive?

jlliagre

@Robusto Yes, an old fashioned one only used joculary.

HippoSawrUs

I'm in the top 18% this week with only 18 pts… We had a Peanuts dance part with the kids, for 2 hours, whew. Others musta had a drinkin' party…all week long.

Robusto

@jlliagre Is it a minced oath for fout?

jlliagre

foutre?

Robusto

@jlliagre Yes.

Va t'en faire foutre ! That kind of foutre.

jlliagre

01:06

searching...

tchrist

01:21

> Les formes euphémisées doivent être proches des locutions taboues pour pouvoir fonctionner, c’est leur contrainte, et tout nom répondant à ce critère est pertinent, ce qui rend ces items interchangeables (comme « flûte » ou « fichtre » pour « foutre » en français). Le terme de substitution, avec plus ou moins d’ingéniosité créative, remplit l’espace du terme tabou, en reprenant le son initial et parfois même le nombre de syllabes.

jlliagre

Yes, I was there too.

@Robusto Va te faire foutre ! by the way. I mean, the expression is [...] ;-)

tchrist

Quote is from Jurons et blasphèmes dans quelques textes des XIVᵉ et XVᵉ siècles : représentations de l’oralité et transgression for Rob's sake.

jlliagre

Ceci n'est pas une flûte.

tchrist

01:37

câlisse

jolín

concha

alphabet

03:55

Tricking my pet raccoons with cotton candy

►

Why must the humans play such games

This is why I stick to my fellow raccoons

Vikas

07:50

Do "outside the pale" and "beyond the pale" mean same thing? Are both grammatically correct?

jlliagre

12:50

Where Does 'Beyond the Pale' Come From?

►

MetaEd

Wordle 928 2/6

⬛🟨⬛🟩🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

tchrist

13:27

@jlliagre OED says that's folk etymology: “The theory that the origin of the phrase relates to any of several specific regions, such as the area of Ireland formerly called the Pale (see sense I.4b) or the Pale of Settlement in Russia (see sense I.4c), is not supported by the early historical evidence and is likely to be a later rationalization.”

M.A.R.

14:13

@Vikas someone's been playing Disco: Elysium

Vikas

14:29

@M.A.R. Uhm no. Someone found it in a book and they used word "outside" instead of "beyond". And I can't find any such reference anywhere else.

Robusto

15:07

@Vikas The "pale" refers to a stick or stake or pole that marked the boundary between outside the camp and inside it. Beyond (or outside) that was not a place of safety and convenience. Now the term just means something is in some way outrageous. Grammaticality has no bearing here, since and adjectival phrase's grammaticality depends on how you use it.

> A pale (from Latin palus meaning ‘a stake’) is a pointed wooden post used with others to form a fence; from this it came to refer to any fenced enclosure. So, in literal use, beyond the pale meant the area beyond a fence. The term Pale was applied to various territories under English control and especially to the area of Ireland under English jurisdiction before the 16th century.
The earliest reference ( 1547 ) to the Pale in Ireland as such draws the contrast between the English Pale and the ‘wyld Irysh’: the area beyond the pale would have been regarded as dangerous and uncivilized by t…

TFD Online

Laurel

Apparently pale is etymologically related to pole, but "beyond the pole" just sounds dumb

Robusto

It sounds dumb because you're not used to hearing it.

Mitch

15:28

@Vikas 'beyond the pale' is the usual phrasing/collocation. 'outside the pale' sounds fine to me (and identical in meaning) but because it is not the usual way of saying it may sound weird to some.

@Laurel 'Outside the pole' sounds like a sports term for out of bounds. 'Inside the pole' it's too dark to read.

hah ah aha

What the elephant was doing in my pajamas I don't know

snortle

Please!

ha aha ahhaa

I'm just going to list the punch lines of mangled Karl Marx and Henny Youngman jokes.

Is the bar tender here?

snirkle

And God said 'God dammit I missed'

That's a good one for bible camp

Oh have I told the joke about Jesus Christ up on the cross? Also a great one for kids.

Laurel

@Robusto I mean, I don't think that's the reason… Lemme just scroll back to literally the last English sentence that tchrist said lol: "hybernacles of life". Nobody talks like that (well, bar one I suppose) but it doesn't sound awful like substituting pole for pale

Mitch

@Vikas so I finally got a chance to see 'Phas gaye re Obama'. It started off a little slow (I didn't know what to expect), but eventually became very interesting and complicated. Good recommendation.

tchrist

@Laurel It's written English, not spoken English.

And it's from 1822.

Do not confuse speech with writing.

Robusto

@Laurel Well, you think @tchrist's verbal confections don't sound weird because you are accustomed to his wordplay in chat. Were you to encounter them in a new coworker you wouldn't know what to make of them.

tchrist

Lest we condemn all literature to the rubbish bin.

Beyond the poll sounds silly.

But so does everything the first time out of the gate.

alphabet

15:48

@Mitch Sounds like the result of running "tetherball" through Google Translate into some language and then back into English.

Mitch

@tchrist Outside the pail is where you don't get wet

@tchrist My first time out of the gait I stumbled

@alphabet Of all the games our parent's gave us to keep us off the streets, Tetherball is only matched by Monopoly in creating white hot anger against siblings and now-former friends.

Somehow I don't have the same feelings about Risk, even though that should have been equally demoralizing when you lose.

Because it actually gives you some hope of coming from behind for a long time (while you don't realize that loss was inevitable)

Lambie

16:25

I'm pretty sure Irish people don't much like to hear the expression "beyond the pale".

Laurel

@tchrist Nobody writes like that either :p "talk" was intended as a hypernym for any means of conveying language

@Robusto I used to think tchrist was always angry but he's actually just over the age of 45 and therefore uses periods in casual messaging :p

tchrist

I don't know what casual messaging is.

I simply type sentences.

@Laurel No, it's not that. There are people younger than me who type actual written English here.

When I read stuff without terminal punctuation, it leaves me out of breath because I keep waiting for the rest of the sentence. It's exhausting.

--over

Mitch

@tchrist like what r u referring to

tchrist

16:40

Yes, I'll always interpret that as an insult.

Mitch

I just learned that hyaluronic is an actual word so why not the Mormon Hybernacle Chorus?

tchrist

Too cold.

Mitch

Hyaluronic acide is considered both skin care and a dietary supplement.

tchrist

Deliberately misspelling things just to be cutesy-cutes always seems like you're sticking up your middle finger and telling your composition teacher that you think that you're more important than standard written English.

Mitch

Also a hurniture polish and dessert topping

tchrist

16:44

Please don't put whip cream on your polish.

Nor catsup, either.

Just mustard.

Mitch

Yeah way too much fat

Laurel

@tchrist I have been known to sometimes do that too

tchrist

A polish is a kind of dog served on Maxwell Street.

Mitch

eye no write

tchrist

Don't forget the sport peppers, sport.

Mitch

16:48

As you might be able to tell by my demeanor, I am distrustful of the efficacy of hyaluronic acid.

@tchrist mmm Chicago

A Chicago dog is great because it's kind of like a Korean meal or a tropical drink. You get your main thing, but then oh wow thanks you get all these little extras. Are they appetizers? Sides to the main course? part of the main course? No matter, it's all awesome.

But I don't care for the tomatoes to be on a Chicago dog. That's just one extra thing too much and it adds nothing (for me).

Laurel

@tchrist You have to do some strenuous physical activity, what with being over 45 and all. It's for your health :p

@tchrist Oh, and I almost failed English in middle school and had a reading teacher tell me I had the third worst handwriting in the class. I don't owe them anything lol

tchrist

@Mitch You know that using mashing tomatoes into catsup for Chicago red hots is a capital offence, don't you?

Mitch

When I get past the threshold of not being able to remembering what happened more than 5 minutes ago (and here's no transcript), please remind me that Premagen (or is it Prevagen? I can never remember. Sort of like 'kerfluffle' if that's not right then it's what should be made right) anyway please remind me that Prevagen is just the biggest crock of shit. It don't do nothing for you.

Probably not toxic though

Lambie

French-style hot dog, like in cafés etc. [Don't blame the messenger. It is imply not my fault. haha] ptitchef.com/imgupl/recipe/…

Mitch

So might as well take vitamins...it's super hard to get toxic doses of vitamins, and a vitamin pill just gets you to 100% for all of them.

Why isn't @CowperKettle or @M.A.R. opining on my dietary exegeses?

Probably snowed in.

Lambie

16:56

There's a variation on that French hotdog. They hollow out a baguette and stuff the hotdog in the hole. Just add mustard.

tchrist

A Chicago polish is not the same as a Chicago red hot.

Mitch

@Lambie Not very kosher but shit what ain't amiright!

tchrist

Chicago-style hot dog

A Chicago-style hot dog, Chicago Dog, or Chicago Red Hot is an all-beef frankfurter on a poppy seed bun, originating from the city of Chicago, Illinois. The hot dog is topped with yellow mustard, chopped white onions, bright green sweet pickle relish, a dill pickle spear, tomato slices or wedges, pickled sport peppers (a variety of Capsicum annuum), and a dash of celery salt. The complete assembly of a Chicago hot dog is said to be "dragged through the garden" due to the many toppings. The method for cooking the hot dog itself varies depending on the vendor's preference. Most often they are steamed...

Mitch

@tchrist Oh also (thanks for reminding me in my dotage) poppy seed buns are overrated

tchrist

@Mitch Failed a drug test, eh?

Robusto

16:58

@Laurel I don't know what you're talking about. Where is it written that this chat is all about casual messaging.

Lambie

@Mitch [LA accent in English]: Jeware Am I in trouble?

Mitch

they add no taste whatsoever, they're basically a vecor for poppy seeds to be crumbs -everywhere in the worst places and, if this is of concern to you, they make you not pass some varieties of drug test.

But the first two problems are the most salient

@tchrist potential

also the penny in your mouth thing doesn't always work

tchrist

Silver spoon.

Mitch

@tchrist an actual silver spoon? Or are you implying that cops will let a rich person go easily?

Laurel

@Robusto So you're trying to tell me this allegedly "multi-layered" chat doesn't have a casual layer??

Mitch

17:01

@Lambie I am blind (or is it deaf) to LA accents. They did a few SNL skits making fun of them, but all I heard is people talking stupid

@Laurel quickly changes room subtitle

Vikas

@Robusto 👍🏽

Lambie

Amiright? You are. Becomes "Dju are" for some pronouncers [yep, I know]. More PC, right?

Vikas

@Mitch 👍🏽

Mitch

@Lambie At Tous les Jours, they have a hotdog croissant, with cheese and tomatoes.

But they also have shrimp flavored icecream

so

Lambie

All this talk of hotdogs is pushing me over the edge. I will take myself down to the local convenience store and get one.

Mitch

17:05

@Vikas 🙏

Robusto

@Laurel Well, I suppose every pool has a shallow end and a deep end. I thought our shallow end was more about wittiness than sloppiness. Historically, it's been that way. But time does have the effect on things.

Mitch

@Lambie That's -some- edge

@Robusto for some of us

Vikas

@Mitch Yeah and also that guy (Rajat Kapoor) is very good actor.

Lambie

@Mitch I was in Saratoga Springs a while back, which has become a mecca for upper-class and nouveaux riches, the streets full of fancy stores. So, I go into a English bakery (Mrs. London's Bakery), and see a chocolate croissant. Without cheating by googling, guess the price...

Robusto

@Mitch Well, you have your own style, like e. e. cummings, and we've grown used to it.

Mitch

17:07

@Vikas Which one was he? The ... cripes I can't remember... the local 'animal safety' director?

Vikas

@Mitch The most misunderstood emoji in India.

Mitch

@Robusto I don't think that guy used periods

@Vikas OMG it's not an insult ever is it? or used sarcastically?

I may have flipped off a taxi driver accidentally

@Lambie a dollar

Lambie

Injust-winter Mitch and Vikas when the fields are full of snow...

Vikas

@Mitch I also don't remember the story now 🤣 BTW this guy:

Lambie

@Mitch Six dollars and fifty frigging cents.

Mitch

17:10

@Lambie Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra

Vikas

Mitch

@Lambie That's not right

not morally right that is

Lambie

Is there Indian dancing too?//When I complained, the counter guy told me she imported her butter from France. Really? How about all organic etc. butter in NY state?

Mitch

@Vikas Oh he was the hostage/NRI American

@Lambie yeah add French to anything and sounds fancy

Vikas

@Mitch Not insult or sarcastic. It just has two meanings. It also looks like Indian way of greeting when you combine your both hands.

Mitch

17:13

The real estate agent: "And now in the back garden we have an open air French cistern' (= the septic tank overflowed and now poson ivy and tarantulas are growing rampant)

Vikas

@Mitch He is also a very good director. Made some very nice movies which don't earn much money but they are well made.

Mitch

That'd be some great heraldry: 'Taranatula gules or rampant'

@Vikas what are the two meanings?

greeting and ... something else?

@Lambie It's not a Bollywood melodrama which has lots of dance scenes. It does have a post-movie staged dance/song with all the actors

Vikas

@Mitch Which one you meant when you used the emoji?

I guess it's called high five?

Laurel

@Robusto Shrug, I find myself struggling to care what people think about me anymore. But "casual" doesn't mean "stupid" and if you look beneath the surface you'll find that I'm pretty deep in what would usually be considered academic pursuits

Mitch

@Vikas Which ones are those?

Laurel

17:21

@Vikas Wow yeah people who don't know Indians very well just think you're all acting very religious lol. That's a completely different tone

Mitch

@Vikas It's used in the US as 'Many Thanks'

high five is more of congratulations or 'Yes,you did well'

Is there a high five emoji?

I see the hand emoji a lot which i think is sometimes used for clapping?

Laurel

There's a fist bump emoji, which you can also use if you want to punch someone through the screen

Mitch

@Laurel emojis are hard to read

as in 1) they are so smal and the color contrast is usually so bad, it's hard to tell what exactly the shape of the emoji is just to identify it literally...

Lambie

We are truly lost: emojipedia.org

Mitch

and 2) what does it -mean-?

@Lambie That's a crime. But the lowly American donut is also getting pretty steep. Sprinkle some bacon bits and maple syrup over one and it's also $6

Laurel

17:27

I can't count the number of times I've misread the facial expression on a friggen emoji lol

Mitch

I'm not trying to be patriotic or nothing but Dunkin Donuts is pretty good, much better than a local bakery.

Vikas

@Mitch I have seen only this one and you might enjoy it m.imdb.com/title/tt3614516

Title means something like "Seen by my own eyes".

Mitch

OK that was a bit strong. Just as good as a local bakery and I support local businesses and stuff so if you have a local bakery etc etc etc... but Dunking Donuts is awesome

Vikas

You'd understand the title while watching the movie.

Cerberus

@Mitch I assume this is satire...

Mitch

17:30

@Vikas nice. added to my list

Vikas

@Mitch Oh. So it has at least three meanings.

Mitch

@Cerberus Cripes...it should have been 'Dunkin Donuts' does that make a difference?

Cerberus

Huge.

Mitch

No it's not satire. I can label the years of my life according to which donut from Dunkin Donut was my favorite at the time

So the story begins: I really wasn't a donut person as a child. All I knew of was Krispy Kreme and as you know how kids are I didn't like them for slightly irrelevant reasons like the dough is too soft and the frosting is too sticky.

Vikas

@Laurel I probably gained my knowledge about this emoji here: google.com/amp/s/www.thequint.com/amp/story/neon/social-buzz/…

> In India, as you know, the interpretations are endless! Folded hands can mean a person extending a greeting (namaste), a person seeking forgiveness, a person praying, or a person high-fiving! Phew.

What a terrible website. Too many ads.

@Mitch You can see trailer first you'd get idea.

Unfortunately I can't see subtitles on YouTube.

Mitch

17:42

So I really didn't think much of donuts until I came to Chicago. One late evening, after ordering a meal at a middling Chinese restaurant with a bunch of new friends, someone needed to go to a drugstore real bad. You know. It was an emergency? I'm sure it could have waited but 20 somethings are 20 somethings so it was an emergency. And somehow I half volunteered to go with. I mean all big cities are anonymous and do bad things really happen, but why not just in case.

While the others were waiting for dinner to arrive, we'd just pop out and be back in a sec. We walked and walked and there are signs but everything is closed and the places that are open are closing, and none of them are pharmacies or convenience stores or nothing. I feel like we were walking a half hour and we're both starving and finally finally we get to a corner.

Drug store and Dunkin Donuts, right next to each other. They go in to take care of their emergency, and I go into DD to take care of mine.

Like I said, donuts weren't my thing, so DD was nothing special to me. I don't think I had even been in one since arriving. The menu, you know how it is, is too much, so you just scan the donuts themselves. Sprinkles are for kids, plain is too plain, Boston cream sounds like a lot (in years since I have confirmed that many times).

So the first part of my adult life was defined by 'strawberry filled'

Not strawberry frosting (I've never cared for that). Not strawberry 'jam' (which is like when you take a sip of tea and discover it's coffee). But strawberry -filled-.

I don't know how that could possibly be different from strawberry jam but that's what it is.

Anyway, other things happen that night, but the thing that really happened was strawberry filled.

@Vikas When I was a young kid it was what we used for prayer.

Vikas

18:15

@Mitch Same here. We used it in school prayer. With closed eyes as well.

Robusto

@Laurel Hey, disagreement is normal in conversations and doesn't mean you're being demeaned. You don't have to be defensive, and I don't need your résumé. Hell, I voted for you for mod, fercrissakes.

alphabet

@Mitch May I recommend the Boston Creme Donut at Dunkin?

It is the only good food product associated with Boston.

MetaEd

@Mitch Krispy Kreme was your early memory of donuts? Oh, you sweet, summer child.

alphabet

Now, now, let's not get into debates about age again. Some of us younger people use periods that aren't passive-aggressive. On the other hand, judging people for not doing so is nonsensical; people can write in different registers.

(The amount of punctuation in my messages mainly depends on whether I'm on my laptop or my phone.)

I'd like to find a corpus of writing from children in a non-self-selected sample (e.g. handwritten letters to the president from everyone in the same teacher's 7th grade class every year)--and score the kids today versus the kids 20 years ago on various objective measures of writing quality. I've heard the idea that exposure to all this amateur peer practice is hurting us, but I'd bet on the generation that conducts the bulk of their social lives via the written word over the generation that occasionally wrote book reports and letters to grandma once a year, any day.

(How old must one be to stop referring to oneself as a "younger person" in this chat? I'm 27; I have no clue what the age distribution in this room is.)

(If I were a human, of course. As a raccoon, I am merely 11 months old.)

MetaEd

18:42

@alphabet The amount of punctuation in my messages has jumped up quite a bit on my new phone, which uses AI to correct my sentences including auto-punctuating

Laurel

19:02

@alphabet Yeah, that's exactly it. Not using periods isn't sloppiness but rather just people using language differently

Mitch

@Vikas Exactly. Eyes shut tight.

What did they not want us to see?

Laurel

@alphabet Everyone else has been here since the dawn of time, so they're either older than us or else joined SE at the tender age of too young to have an account under the TOS :p

Mitch

I won't have a chapter on that one, not because it's not awesome (it is awesome) but because it was never a deining donut of any period of my life. Practically speaking, I just can't eat one of those in one sitting.

Laurel

Btw did you recently have a birthday if you're 27?

Robusto

@MetaEd If my phone has AI, then it (the phone) certainly has shit for brains. It is constantly taking normal words and building an edifice of horror out of them. Example: "Gonna meet you at Starbucks in 15 mins" becomes "Gonna make you at Sarajevo in 15 mini"

alphabet

19:06

@Laurel At some point.

Mitch

@alphabet What about... nope not that... but then there's... nope not that either...bu... oh my god no.

Fried clam roll?

Robusto

@alphabet Still time for the 27 club then. (j/k)

alphabet

@Robusto It must be a great club; everyone who joins never leaves.

Mitch

@MetaEd If you're gonna say that kinda stuff you're gonna have to witness yourself.

Robusto

@alphabet Yeah, but you have to give up a lot to remain in it.

Mitch

19:07

What is your earliest donut memory?

@alphabet .

And I mean it to sting

alphabet

@Mitch I don't keep track of those.

Laurel

@alphabet Hmmm, I wonder if I'm required to report you as underage :p There was a guy once upon a time whose account got deleted because he was joking in chat that he was like 12 years old. He was fortunately able to get staff to restore his account lol

Robusto

@Mitch Mine is of my first donut at the neighborhood bakery, hot out of the fryer. It was crisp and the frosting was melting down the sides.

Mitch

@alphabet ew is right

Laurel

I'm not sure when my first donut would have been. I do know that church always had donut Sunday as long as I can remember

alphabet

19:09

Though I do carve tally marks on the side of my freezer for every pint of ice cream I eat.

Mitch

@Laurel To be honest, yes, I did give my not actual DOB

Or maybe that was Facebook?

I remember in middle school all the kids being so hyped up about 1) getting a phone 2) getting an FB account

and now who in their right mind wants to be their, it's just your parents telling you how good your would look if you'd just cut your hair

or comment on wearing flipflops and pajamas outside during winter

@Robusto Yes. Yes. That's -exactly what happens to me. All those errors? Not me.

@Robusto It may be cliche but I love the aoole cinnamon donuts at the orchard in the fall.

put your own accent aigu on that one.

Robusto

@Mitch aioli?

Mitch

@Robusto My first taste of Brunswick stew was when I was omg really young, 6?, and we were at a parade (the Tobacco Bowl?) and I burned my tongue on it on the first spoonful, so I couldn't taste the rest. So I'm not sure why I like it so much.

@alphabet Back to imaginary world, so that you might relate, I have hundreds of 'tally' marks on my big trash bin where raccoons have tried to claw the top open (and also claw marks on the inside trying to get out).

5 mins ago, by Mitch

@Robusto Yes. Yes. That's -exactly what happens to me. All those errors? Not me.

apple

Laurel

@Mitch SE doesn't ask for birth date, but I think it did in the past as an optional field

MetaEd

19:26

@Mitch I don't know what that means, can you please use idioms from decades between 1970 and 2000

2

Mitch

20:07

@Laurel I feel like you just said I'm old

@MetaEd What is your first donut memory?

Laurel

@Mitch Did you notice how I didn't even threaten to report you as underage???

MetaEd

@Mitch my formative donut memory is late night bakery runs in college -- going in the Danish Maid Bakery by the back alley door at 2:00 am, and picking warm donuts and other pastries off the cooling racks

digital.grinnell.edu/islandora/object/grinnell:5245

Mitch

20:24

@Laurel It's like that first time you go into a 7-11 to buy apple cider and they don't card you.

For context

There's no context

OK there's context but the chat editing action is messing me up with the newlines

For context
1) Apple cider in the states is entirely non-alcoholic
2) 7-11 doesn't sell anything alcoholic
3) Yes, one time I was carded for trying to buy apple cider at a 7-11

I'm still angry to this day

Holy shit, there's something else that happened when I was younger that I am still angry about to this day.

But that's for another day

@MetaEd Nice

Are those cheap day old donuts or the donuts they're baking for the morning in a few hours?

MetaEd

@Mitch the brand new still warm from the oven donuts

Mitch

Also, how did you know that I am a summer child, and also very sweet?

@MetaEd mmm

MetaEd

@Mitch tasted you earlier

Mitch

@MetaEd Weirdo

MetaEd

@Mitch ask a silly question ...

Mitch

20:29

snort

vulpes vulpem, fus furem recognitur

or something like that

Is there honor among thieves or is it -no- honor among thieves?

Forgot to take my Prevagen

MetaEd

@Mitch we were just talking about that yesterday. "Hang the Code, and hang the rules! They're more like guidelines anyway."

Mitch

Well yeah do bad people have bad morals overall even to each other or do they have morals as a group and are just against us?

MetaEd

20:57

@Mitch sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both. a person's ethic might be to honor rules of their ingroup, and victimize their outgroup for example. So their ethic isn't about the wrongness of victimizing as such, but instead the wrongness of victimizing "their people". Once a person diminishes another person or another creature generally into a "thing", the rules that apply to people simply don't apply anymore.

It's hard to write about this without using words like "dehumanize" or "depersonalize" which are human-centric. But this diminishment followed by abuse is done with non-human animals too.

i.e. I love my dog, lavish attention on my dog like it's human. but my pig is a meat puppet, I eat my pig.

Mitch

@MetaEd That took a turn I wasn't expecting

MetaEd

@Mitch that's why the pig has that little curly tale

it takes an unexpected turn

Mitch

right before you eat them

Dannyu NDos

22:35

This question was from a Korean test: "What are animals that are raised to get meat, milk, or eggs called?"

Correct answer: A livestock. A kid wrote: A puppy.

MetaEd

22:47

@DannyuNDos Don't eat the puppy eggs.

M.A.R.

@alphabet either I or skullpatrol are the youngest regulars of chat I think

alphabet

@DannyuNDos Well here's a Wikipedia article I wish I hadn't read:

Dog meat consumption in South Korea

The consumption of dog meat is now heavily restricted but legal in South Korea. It is the subject of ongoing and significant controversy. In a 2020 survey of South Koreans, 83.8% of respondents reported never having consumed dog meat nor having plans to ever do so. In June 2018, a South Korean municipal court ruled that killing dogs for their meat was illegal, though this law did not make it illegal to consume dog meat.While most scholars believe there is no evidence that dog meat has ever been a key part of the Korean diet, the rate of consumption, legislation, and cultural practices surrounding...

M.A.R.

Maybe Danny? We haven't dug up all his little secrets yet

alphabet

I sort of assume Cerberus is around my age

M.A.R.

Cerb is thousands of years old

alphabet

22:57

Ah right.

> The primary dog breed raised for meat is a non-specific landrace commonly named as Nureongi (누렁이), or Hwanggu (황구). Nureongi are not the only type of dog currently slaughtered for their meat in South Korea. In 2015, The Korea Observer reported that many different pet breeds of dog are bred to be eaten, including, for example, labradors, retrievers, and cocker spaniels, and that the dogs slaughtered for their meat often include former pets.

M.A.R.

@alphabet to be totally fair, this is yet another . . . Uh, cultural? . . . thing some sort of world council has seen fit to disapprove

alphabet

@M.A.R. Yeah, it only sounds weird to us Americans. To be clear: I'm stating my reaction, not saying it's justified.

M.A.R.

@Mitch I am conserving energy

alphabet

I wonder if you can taste the difference between breeds.

M.A.R.

@alphabet I mean, something equivalent comes up about middle East like every couple of weeks

alphabet

23:00

Like Wagyu beef.

> Gaesoju (개소주; 개燒酒) – Mixed drink containing dog meat and other Chinese medicine ingredients such as ginger, chestnut, and jujube to invigorate one's health.

You see, this is why Americans are in such bad health. No dog meat drinks.

Laurel

@alphabet "labradors, retrievers" I thought these were the same type of dog

alphabet

> Asian Americans, including Korean Americans, have for many decades been subjected to racist stereotypes of Koreans and other Asians as dog eaters. An example is TV host Jay Leno, who had repeatedly recycled stereotypes of Koreans eating dog meat in his jokes.

Ok, I think I should stop joking about this.

@Laurel Presumably they mean golden retrievers.

Laurel

I would find it hard to believe that any Asian Americans are any different from other Americans on the subject

alphabet

> 83.8% of South Koreans stated that they have never consumed dog meat and had no plans to consume it in the future. 58.6% supported the ban on dog meat, and 57% said that consumption of dog meat had an effect on creating negative perceptions of South Korea.

It's a very uncommon practice in Korea itself.

(And of course Western criticism of it is bizarrely hypocritical; it's not like America is known for its humane livestock practices.)

Mitch

@M.A.R. If you had a shitload of vitamins you wouldn't have to

Laurel

23:10

@alphabet I think in the US, it's just extremely hard to cut unethical livestock out of your diet, unless you become a vegetarian or maybe even vegan

And it's hard to be a vegetarian or vegan in the US too

alphabet

@Laurel May I suggest a very easy and healthful vegetarian diet?

Definitely not vegan though.

Laurel

I think I would just die

At least if I tried the diet; you can suggest it and I'll merely groan

tchrist

@DannyuNDos Livestock is a mass noun, not a count noun. So you cannot have "a" livestock.

> a1687– Domestic animals kept on a farm for use or profit; esp. cattle, sheep, and pigs.

jlliagre

23:25

tchrist

And it's normally a plural mass noun, no less.

alphabet

It can be either.

Ngram suggests both are common, though you end up with a lot of false positives.

jlliagre

alphabet

There's an ELU question about it, but the top answer is wrong: english.stackexchange.com/questions/411662

But some do use it as an (always plural) count noun: theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/feb/12/food-saturated-fats

> Now many livestock are shut up in sheds and raised on grains and imported soya.

It seems that some sources use it as a plural noncount noun, some as a singular noncount noun, and a few as a plural count noun. But nobody accepts it as a singular count noun.

(Ah, right, I can't respond to tchrist.)

Laurel

23:51

On another subject:

0

A: Thank you, Professor Lawler and Rest in Peace!

John Lawler's lost answers In the question I said he posted almost 2000 answers, but this isn't exactly true. Those are just the answers that are not deleted. If we include his deleted answers, it's more than 2000. Currently he has 63 deleted answers on ELU (excluding migrated and one accidental ...

(In case you missed it, this is an answer I wrote to the question.)

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