English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

CowperKettle

01:09

> Vladimir Putin has issued a pardon for Vladislav Kanyus, a Kemerovo native who was sentenced to 17 years in prison for the brutal murder of 23-year-old college student Vera Pekhteleva in 2020, according to human rights lawyer Alyona Popova.

"Russian-installed health officials in Crimea said Thursday that private clinics on the Moscow-annexed peninsula have “voluntarily” stopped providing abortions, which means that the procedure is now only available there in state-run medical facilities." apnews.com/article/…

tchrist

In neither of those can I tease out what's behind those actions.

Neither makes any sense to me.

CowperKettle

Vladislav was pardoned for spending 6 months at the frontlines

And abortions are kind of suppressed because Putin has called on to take steps to improve birth rates

It's just really an attempt of local officials to show off

I don't think abortions would be banned

tchrist

Thanks.

CowperKettle

Word of the morn: rotationplasty

Mitch

01:30

@MetaEd sorry, I'm gonna be busy that day

CowperKettle

02:43

Enthic slur of the day: taig

> Taig, and (primarily formerly) also Teague, are anglicisations of the Irish-language male given name Tadhg, used as ethnic slurs for a stage Irishman. Taig in Northern Ireland is most commonly used as a derogatory term by loyalists to refer to Irish Catholics.

Etymology of the day: sachet /ˈsaʃeɪ/ - French; from sac +‎ -et, with palatalization of c.

-et is a French suffix indicating diminution or affection

Only in French pronunciation, such words end in ɛ, without t: /sa.ʃɛ/

Kenn Sebesta

04:21

Hi, looking for some feedback about english.stackexchange.com/questions/614516/…. The question is about formal pedantic taxonomy, something likely a linguist would know. However, I feel like there's a hint that ELL might be a better place?

Comparing english.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic to ell.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic, it seems somewhat clear that, as a native English speaker who is looking for a non-lay answer, ELL is ostensibly an odd fit.

Dagnabbit. I should have guessed there would be an SE.Linguistics! There are so many SE now, it's crazy, and I love it.

What's the best way to get the Q migrated over there? Should I just delete it here and ask it there?

alphabet

04:45

@KennSebesta I think this question is on-topic, and I'll vote to reopen.

(Wait, never mind. I can answer this one as-is.)

As usual, the comments section include a certain someone who (falsely) thinks that questions that are "too easy" should be closed, and a certain other someone indirectly referencing terminology from a certain book without citing or explaining it.

And a close vote by a certain someone who likes to kill off questions for the hell of it.

alphabet

05:16

Anyway I recommend this be reopened.

Cerberus

05:31

Haha I know who you mean.

I'm not a huge fan of the question, though.

The example is not explained properly.

It is als unnecessarily complex.

A standard sentence would be better.

alphabet

05:45

Never gonna give you up
Never gonna le[t͡ʃ]ou down
Never gonna drop the yod and deser[t͡ʃ]ou
Never gonna say a "Y"
Never gonna say goodbye
Never gonna just elide and hur[t͡ʃ]ou

Those sounds've been together for so long
Their should make a [tj] but we don't try to say it
Instead, we both know what should happen here
It's all the same if we coalesce it

(The first verse:)
We're no strangers to sounds
You know the rules and so do I (do I)
Assimilation's what I'm thinking of
You wouldn't do this with any sound but "Y"

SmokeDetector

06:54

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Mostly punctuation marks in answer (36): Word for "drawing a decisive conclusion about a phenomenon according to specific personal experience"‭ by Late to the party‭ on english.SE

M.A.R.

08:08

@Mitch it kinda doesn't. Draw an axis through the center of the body. Anything closer to it is proximal, anything farther from it is distal. So your upper arm is proximal, and your forearm is distal.

CowperKettle

And anything that cuts the body in a plane from back to front is sagittal, from an ancient word meaning "arrow"

And if it cuts not strictly in the centerline, it's parasagittal

sagitta

Noun: sagitta (plural sagittas or (arrowworm) sagittae)

The keystone of an arch.
(geometry) The distance from a point in a curve to the chord; also, the versed sine of an arc; so called from its resemblance to an arrow resting on the bow and string.
(zootomy) The larger of the two otoliths, or earbones, found in most fishes.
Any arrowworm, of the genus Sagitta.
sagitta f (genitive sagittae); first declension

(5 more not shown…)

Latin sagitta (“an arrow, shaft, bolt”).

Came across three squirrels today

I took two walnuts along, so one squirrel did not get anything

CowperKettle

09:24

Too bad that many of Nature's pop science news are behind a paywall nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03400-z

> As the neon sign flickers a soft, sputtering glow,
Tom Waits takes the stage in a diner's late show.
With a voice steeped in gravel, and eyes sharp with wit,
He prepares for a patron whom he's slated to sit.

In a booth near the window, where the rain gently taps,
Bill Gates sits in silence, his mind perhaps wrapped
In the latest endeavors of philanthropic goals,
Or computing conundrums that perplex mortal souls.

With a notepad and pen tucked in apron’s tight crease,
Tom saunters to Gates with a smooth, silent ease.

Composed by an AI

Vikas

13:00

@CowperKettle Nice

Mitch

@M.A.R. Well, to be fair (to myself (which is really what you want (you know, fairness (for yourself)))), it -is- PoV but metaphorically, from the point of view of the 'start' of a structure. An arm extends from the trunk, so the hand is distal to the elbow, but the shoulder is proximal. The common sense PoV is from the trunk, so you don't say 'the elbow is distal to the wrist if you stick your finger in a light socket'.

So the proximal end of the catheter is what 'goes in' towards the kidneys (or heart? are there venous/arterial catheters? Hm probably of course stent placements are done with such catheters but for whatever reason I had a ministroke of just that one neuron that recorded that piece of the lexicon (note to @CowperKettle FYI that's not really how word meanings work but it's a fun metaphor).

jlliagre

13:40

#deluxewaffle76 4/5

🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩⭐🟩⬜🟩⭐🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩⬜🟩⬜🟩⬜🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩⭐🟩⬜🟩⭐🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

wafflegame.net

CowperKettle

13:56

My elevator has a couple of advertisement panels, and by this time they are full with AI-generated graphics and characters.

AI art generators have conquered the small-poster ad market.

Mitch

14:15

@CowperKettle my guess is that no graphic artist lost their job...a graphic artist just did the job much quicker because they had a tool to do it.

Same reasoning for programmers not gonna lose their job. No manager is gonna use copilot to write a program, you still need a programmer to put all the pieces together

In other non news, now I can sit down for the nights relaxing entertainment with my phone, a kindle, a physical book, my laptop, the TV with umpteen services, and end up looking at YouTube shorts of people falling down

Robusto

@CowperKettle Hence Sagiittarius, the zodiacal constellation.

BTW, your Siberian squirrels have weird ear tufts.

jlliagre

14:39

and they are fearless. Everytime I have the luck to see a French écureuil, the animal had already noticed me and vanishes in the trees within seconds.

M.A.R.

15:34

@Mitch are you referring to permcat for hemodialysis?

No catheter goes to the kidneys. The glomeruli are a few dozen micrometers thick. I don't think it'll fit.

Mitch

15:55

@M.A.R. the operative word is 'towards' as opposed to 'away from' . I wouldn't expect a urinary catheter to go even as far as the bladder, but it is definitely going upstream.

Robusto

@Mitch It does go to the bladder.

There, a little balloon is inflated, which holds it in place.

CowperKettle

Dietary restriction of isoleucine increases healthspan and lifespan of genetically heterogeneous mice

MetaEd

16:20

Wordle 874 4/6

🟨🟨🟩⬛⬛
⬛🟨🟩🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@CowperKettle thank goodness that's off my diet

jlliagre

I never ate a mouse either.

Robusto

16:36

@jlliagre My cats have. They seemed to enjoy it. Actually the prep more than the food, but you get the idea.

jlliagre

@Robusto Cats don't like ratatouille though.

Robusto

@jlliagre But they would eat the chef, no problem.

Ratatouille (film)

Ratatouille ( RAT-ə-TOO-ee) is a 2007 American animated comedy-drama film produced by Pixar Animation Studios for Walt Disney Pictures. The eighth film produced by Pixar, it was written and directed by Brad Bird and produced by Brad Lewis, from an original idea by Jan Pinkava, who was credited for conceiving the film's story with Bird and Jim Capobianco. The film stars the voices of Patton Oswalt, Lou Romano, Ian Holm, Janeane Garofalo, Peter O'Toole, Brian Dennehy, Peter Sohn and Brad Garrett. The title refers to the French dish ratatouille, which is served at the end of the film, and also...

> He's dying to become a chef (Movie Tag Line)

Cats are happy to oblige.

jlliagre

RAT-ə-TOO-ee ? Hmm: /rata'tuj/!

or even /ʁata'tuj/ if you want to show off :-)

Robusto

16:56

@jlliagre Theirs would be the conventional American misappropriation of French.

jlliagre

@Robusto Not specific to Americans pronouncing French. Whatever the languages, pronouncing a foreign word like it is in the original language is often weird if not impossible.

Robusto

@jlliagre Well, yeah. A better "sight-spelling" for English of ratatouille might be something like rah-tah-TWEE.

jlliagre

Right

Mitch

@Robusto Good to know

squirms a little

Robusto

@jlliagre That still doesn't capture the /r/ of French, but it's closer all-around.

@Mitch Squirming is an understandable response. I had one of those catheters in me after knee surgery, and an orderly accidentally (I hope) tripped over the tube while adjusting my sheets. I could feel the whole bladder get tugged toward the outside air.

Mitch

17:05

The French 'r' is elusive, like an prison escapee on the remote beaches of Tahiti

jlliagre

@Robusto I guess hah-tah-TWEE would be closer, but hard to swallow :-)

Mitch

@Robusto There's no good emoji for the empathy of clenching one's entire body in fear.

Robusto

@jlliagre If I had edit privileges on Wikipedia I'd change that pronunciation.

@jlliagre Close, but no cigar. The /h/ would be pronounced in the throat for English speakers instead of somewhere north of there.

@Mitch OK, so let's see it.

Mitch

@CowperKettle But of course I just ran across this:

Generative AI Already Taking White Collar Jobs and Wages in Online Freelancing World

Robusto

Nurse Jackie cateter

►

This explains the problem.

Mitch

17:08

but in trying to read the original article (not the Financial Times summary), I can't see where they say 'jobs being taken'

CowperKettle

Maybe the generation of eye-catching headlines is a white-collar job, and it's being taken by the AI

Robusto

still waiting for the emoji of "clenching one's entire body in fear".

Mitch

I do see a mention of the difficulties in expert graphic artists using genAI (not forwarding simpler genAI tasks to mentees, hereby giving apprentices less practice). There is a similar problem with learning to program, if beginner programmers rely on AI to get their programs right, they won't be practicing the mental habits that will get them to be expert programmers.

M.A.R.

@Mitch okay so which catheter are we talking about? Foley? Permcat?

Mitch

@M.A.R. You've already gone way past anything I know. I thought 'Foley' was one of the cops in 'Beverly Hills Cop'

Or a sound artist for movies that makes up sound effects.

Robusto

17:13

@Mitch No no no, Foley is the artist who does the sound effects for film.

Jinx.

Mitch

And a Permcat is cold weather mouse removal device.

Robusto

I thought it was a snowmobile.

Mitch

@Robusto gdmt

@Robusto or a backhoe

Robusto

Or a pet cat enshrined in Lucite.

Mitch

@CowperKettle Well, I'm sure the editor in charge of headlines will be the one pressing the one button rather than 20 to get that headline. So that guy's job is safe.

@Robusto You're just pandering to the mouse delegation now.

Robusto

17:15

Hey, I owe them for my cat's predations.

Mitch

@Robusto I said 'there's no good' one. So I'm still waiting too. While still clenching.

Robusto

@Mitch Hmm ... funny how one little word changes the meaning of a sentence diametrically.

jlliagre

@Robusto ( cha-ta-TWEE) with the 'ch' of 'loch'.

Robusto

@jlliagre No one will see that as anything but the ch in rich. I suggest kha.

jlliagre

@Robusto Less Scottish and more Arabic but fine.

Robusto

17:20

Still, Americans (and Brits) will fuck it up. It'll just become ka-ta-TWEE.

Mitch

@jlliagre In every language book for teaching English they always give that 'ch as in loch' as a possibility. And everyone of those language books is promulgating a statement that is barely true for .01% of the native English speaking population, and entirely unrecognizable for the 99.99% rest.

And to put it at the -beginning- of a word. Impossible.

@Robusto My turn for 'Jinkx'

jinkies?

Robusto

@Mitch I think that would be pronounced JING-kulls.

(jinkles)

But once again, @Mitch, you've managed to say in 50 words what I managed in 15. You, sir, are a word spendthrift.

Mitch

Oct 20 at 14:42, by Mitch

@M.A.R. I have more.

Robusto

@Mitch I am well aware.

CowperKettle

@Robusto I've asked ChatGPT

That's what it drew.

Robusto

17:33

@CowperKettle Well, shrink it down to the size of an em in Web fonts. I bet it looks like all the other emojis.

Seriously, whose idea was it to try to convey complex (and not-so-complex ones, even) emotions in that size?

Mitch

@Robusto Just like all the other emojis look like all the other emojis

@Robusto literally everybody

Robusto

@Mitch Thank you for explaining my point to me.

And thank you for adding even more words to my concision.

Mitch

@Robusto your point was that the one emoji looks like the others. I am adding the logically tautological but nevertheless nontrivial observation to most people that even without this new one, they all look alike.

jlliagre

> In Amsterdam und sogar Eindhoven kommt man mancherorts nicht mehr mit Niederländisch weiter. Das Englische rückt vor – zumal an den Hochschulen. Der Bildungsminister will dagegen vorgehen. Frankfurter Allgemeine

Mitch

There you go. I had a few spare so i threw those in for free

Robusto

17:36

@Mitch Which should have been inferred.

Mitch

@Robusto should ain't is

Robusto

@Mitch But it should be.

user 726941

it is what it is

Mitch

@Robusto We all should have inferred that

Robusto

@jlliagre OK, for the sake of my sanity, please don't quote Frankfurter Allgemeine in chat. I had to live there for six months and that's what the VPs at the company always read (religiously, one presumes).

M.A.R.

17:39

Mitch

@Robusto Better than the WSJ oped page

Robusto

Everyone is free to quote Bild or Die Welt here, though.

user 726941

can we quote trump?

Robusto

We all know what he says. No need.

M.A.R.

That's permcath BTW. Hemodialysis catheter.

Robusto

17:41

"Witch hunt" "I'm so persecuted" and yadayadayada.

M.A.R.

> That doesn't mean we want to talk about YouTube comments or hemorrhoids or other such topics.

I mean, the image is the Foley catheter. Permcath is the correct spelling of permcath, I mean

Mitch

I mean we have -some- principles of human decency

M.A.R.

Autocorrect is messing with me

Robusto

@M.A.R. 👍

Mitch

@M.A.R. it spellchecked 'Foley' into 'Permcath'?

M.A.R.

17:43

It spellchecked permcath into permcat

Ugh

Mitch

good eyes you must have

I can't tell the difference

Robusto

@M.A.R. I like Permcat better. We've already had some good chat involving that word.

M.A.R.

@Mitch puffs up chest We study for years to differentiate between 'Foley' and 'permcath'.

It must be confusing to the . . . uninitiated.

adjusts monocle

Robusto

We would call them all Foleys, just to annoy the cognoscenti.

M.A.R.

Sounds like a British boy band

Robusto

17:47

I thought all the boy bands were offshored to Korea.

M.A.R.

I wouldn't know. The only time I recognize music is when they play Call of Duty music over the Supreme leader's speech

Mitch

@M.A.R. That must be exciting

M.A.R.

And Vivaldi's four seasons over an ad for chandeliers, kitchen utensils, carpets take your pick

Mitch

@M.A.R. We get that here too

M.A.R.

@Mitch it used to be Pirates of the Caribbean. That was more exciting

Mitch

17:51

jewelry, cars, Axe body spray, North Face winter parkas

@M.A.R. Whatever works for patriotism

M.A.R.

@Mitch see, if only everyone was like advertisers

Mitch

Four seasons (of various seasons) used for monster trucks, moster truck exhibitions, monster truck sales, foley catheter exhibitions, Mount Everest body cleanup and reburial service, Campbell's soup, luxury watches.

M.A.R.

America, why do you want a trade war with America? Just sit down and have some coffee harvested with the blood and sweat of wage slaves and Mozart music

Mitch

OK I made up the one about Campbell soup to check if you were reading.

adds coffee to list

M.A.R.

If I drink his soup what will he have?

Mitch

17:56

He's too nervous to eat anything... he's not sure if she'll say yes.

Robusto

@M.A.R. Don't forget carrots and hemorrhoid creams.

M.A.R.

@Mitch This is just like the Cuban missile crisis

Mitch

@M.A.R. Good catch. That was my insipration.

Also 'When Harry Met Sally'

But I repeat myself

@M.A.R. at the fear of introducing complexity into the discussion, how is a Foley catheter different from your everyday urinary catheter? or is a Foley catheter just one of the kinds of everyday urethral-entry urinary catheter?

Robusto

@M.A.R. Nah, Rossini is more to the point.

Classic Commercials: Jeno's Pizza Roll & Lark Cigarettes ft The Lone Ranger William Tell Overture

►

Mitch

Or is a Foley catheter the only option for going up, I forget the technical term, the wee-wee?

Robusto

18:02

@Mitch If there is, please don't tell me about it.

Mitch

@Robusto Or the Marlboro man

NYO-USA Performs Copland’s “Hoe-Down” from Rodeo

►

alphabet

19:02

Someone needs to make urinary catheters the new wellness detox trend

"Reverse catheters" for "bladder steaming"

I sense a Goop product opportunity

Americans Explain How They Would End The Israel-Hamas War

Mitch

19:18

@alphabet squeezes eyes shut

MetaEd

@alphabet no. I don't read The Onion because it is too accurate

Mitch

@MetaEd Like The Daily Show, parody is more accurate than the news

alphabet

@Mitch Shh, just close your eyes and relax

MetaEd

@Mitch that's exactly what I mean

Mitch

@alphabet when I relax is when bad things happen

A constant vigilant low level anxiety is what keeps me alive

waits for red light to turn at a 3am empty intersection

@MetaEd I'm here to repeat what other people say but with more words

Actually sometimes with exactly the same words.

Repetition just makes sure everyone gets the message in case they couldnt hear right the first time.

1 hour ago, by Mitch

But I repeat myself

@alphabet I am outraged that you're not more outraged at all this.

alphabet

19:26

Cleanse your bladder with ionized water and hibiscus extract

Mitch

And if you happen to show more outrage than me, then you're a lunatic, blowing things out of proportion to all reason.

Laurel

@alphabet Mood: “I’m just going to keep saying ‘Hamas’ in an incredulous tone until the war ends.”

2

Mitch

@alphabet I misread that as 'carbonized water'

and made some logical inferences

and I'm thinking there's a product there

MetaEd

@Mitch New Instant Water! Just Add Water!

Mitch

@MetaEd I'd drink that

I wouldn't pay for it.

MetaEd

19:28

@Mitch you'd tap that, probably

Mitch

That's what hippies do

pay for their water

@MetaEd snort

snort snort

What I really came here to do was

tell you all that

for years I've been wondering

if the words pirate and privateer

were etymologically related

and having done some minimal internet research

of two google searches

one for each

the top search results show that

no, they're not

not related

not etymologically

and I'm pretty disappointed

as disappointments go

I mean it's not as disappointing as not winning a lottery that I didn't enter

which, now that I think of it, is if that's the worst disappointment one has,

then things can't be so bad

to be fair, I wasn't going to win a lottery I -did- enter

I would bet on it.

How much you ask?

Let me check the odds on the particular lottery we're making the wager on first.

privateer (n.) 1660s, "private man of war, armed vessel owned and officered by private persons, usually acting under commission from the state," from private (adj.), probably on model of volunteer (n.), buccaneer. From 1670s as "one commanding or serving on a privateer." As a verb, 1660s (implied in privateering) "to cruise on a privateer, to seize or annoy an enemy's ships and commerce."

pirate (n.) c. 1300 (mid-13c. as a surname), "a sea-robber, sea-plunderer, one who without authority and by violence seizes or interferes with the ship or property of another on the sea" ... from Old French pirate and directly from Medieval Latin pirata "sailor, corsair, sea robber"... from classical Latin, from Greek peiratēs "brigand, pirate," literally "one who attacks" (ships), from peiran "to attack, make a hostile attempt on, try,"

when in practice a pirate is really a privateer that hasn't been authorized or rather a privateer is an authorized pirate.

but presumably not authorized by the ship being pirated/privateered

alphabet

19:45

@Mitch Like one of those SodaStream machines

(No, you're the one making it weird.)

MetaEd

@Mitch well, given that property = theft, surely privacy = attack

and the common word is PEI root "per" which means of course an apple, or original sin

Mitch

22:19

@alphabet uh ... yeah...

wait

which direction?

@alphabet '...er'.

'weird...er'

@MetaEd How dare you slur the Canadian Maritimes like that.

alphabet

22:39

@Mitch Both?

CowperKettle

23:28

Albert Einstein's message left in a time capsule in NY in 1939

CowperKettle

23:44

US surgeons have transplanted a whole eye to a patient

smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/…

> When surgeons connected the donor eyeball, they injected adult stem cells from the donor’s bone marrow into James’ optic nerve. Their theory is that the adult stem cells will replace the damaged cells of the optic nerve and, possibly, help regenerate it.

Cerberus

23:58

That would be very interesting.

One wonders about rejection.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…