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01:35
This is just sad.
It seems that in many places teachers could get a raise by working at McDonald's.
The worst part is that I've seen it treated as a feel-good story instead of another example of the system failing and literal children doing more about it than politicians
Yes.
Well, not the worst part, but it's bad
Why can't we just treat people right?
Because unbridled capitalism.
And because Americans don't seem to value education.
Not enough, anyway.
I remember in 2006 North Andover, MA raised the price of transfer-station stickers to $200. There was a collective cry of outrage, and so that decision was rescinded. Where did they take the money from? Why, the schools, of course.
It backfired. Teachers were fired and class sizes grew from ~24 to ~36. Overnight the value of the homes there dropped over $100,000.
I work in education (previously doing more tech support stuff) so I get to see how screwed up things are up close
01:48
Yeah, it has to be frustrating for the teachers. They are faced with an impossible job.
During the pandemic I had teachers coming to me telling me they were resigning, even though I was just there to take their laptops for updates lol
Yeah, that's awful.
I also had some who said they were getting their wills done which was just as bad
The prevailing wisdom seems to be to teach to the standardized test, as if you could bore children into learning.
They actually canceled a lot of standardized tests in 2020 (and others were given a longer period that they could be administered in). I wonder what that was like
Probably would have been better if there wasn't a pandemic happening
02:02
The pandemic was bad in so many ways. Especially for teachers & students.
I'm very glad I was out of school before it happened. Well technically I was in schools but I was working there not a student
We were giving a lot of support to different schools and Zoom trainings and such
02:20
@Mitch Good question
02:42
@Robusto Maybe the answer is.. multi-story block houses? An apartment may be cheaper than a house
Under Khruschev, specialized "house-producing factories" were set up, making unified interchangeable parts for 5-storey buildings.
A khrushchevka (Russian: хрущёвка, tr. khrushchyovka, IPA: [xrʊˈɕːɵfkə]), also known by the derogatory nickname khrushchoba (Russian: хрущоба, tr. khrushchoba, lit. 'khru-slum'), is a type of low-cost, concrete-paneled or brick three- to five-storied apartment building which was developed in the Soviet Union during the early 1960s, during the time its namesake Nikita Khrushchev directed the Soviet government. Khrushchevkas are sometimes compared to the Japanese danchi, similar (often government-sponsored) housing projects from the same period, which by some accounts were directly inspired by them...
Real talk, does me using an exclamation point in comments sometimes make the message seem more casual (and therefore making me seem more approachable or friendly) or does it have some sort of negative effect?
I was forced to remove all the user-facing exclamation points from my one website before, and I don't even remember the reason why other than I must work for spoilsports lol
03:00
@alphabet I got 16 points
@CowperKettle Sorry to hear that. (I got like 19 points last year, but I'm all better now. So there is hope.)
I've been on venlafaxine 225 mg/day for a year
> July 1942. "Dunklin County, Missouri. Children leaving school." Acetate negative by Arthur Rothstein for the Office of War Information.
I wonder why some kids are without any boots
Was it allowed to go to school barefoot?
@Laurel I think it depends on context. "Good job!" and "Motherfucker!" both use one. It is quite informal though.
@CowperKettle Huh. Have they tried other medications? Often you have to cycle through different ones.
No, I don't want to go to the local psych clinic.
Hmm. Presumably going to a psych clinic couldn't hurt?
03:10
They love to prescribe antipsychotics for everything, starting from cough
A modern Finnish school were all pupils go without any boots dzen.ru/media/id/5d7a0ec686c4a900b2be295e/…
I still don't believe it that in the US people actually wear shoes inside their homes
Antipsychotics are a fairly common second-line treatment for depression, as I recall. But there are plenty of others.
I think that one must avoid antipsychotics, maybe even with hallucinations
@CowperKettle You typically keep your shoes on when you're a guest in someone else's home, or when you have guests in your home. If only the residents are home you take them off.
If they're sufficiently good friends they get promoted to taking-their-shoes-off status.
@CowperKettle The newer ones are fairly safe. Certainly better than being severely depressed.
There's also bupropion and mirtazapine and such. And ketamine, though I'm guessing that's less available in Russia.
Lamotrigine worked for me, but that's because I'm Special Sad. I think it works less well for Regular Sad.
03:31
@alphabet I would never…! Wait, no, I did
But usually when I'm leaving comments it's to try to encourage someone to do better in their post (yeah, I guess even putting it like that, it's criticism)
@CowperKettle What if they're cool hallucinations?
@Laurel I would leave the exclamation marks out. They're too easily misinterpreted.
I wish I could help with the medical stuff but alas internet (not that I'm a doctor in person either)
@alphabet aw
@Laurel Try the Benadryl challenge so you can experience it for yourself!
Oh wait I just used an exclamation mark
Hrm
@alphabet Also, you should be Special Happy. I think this is perhaps some of the most solid advice I've ever thought of
@alphabet Benadryl makes me unable to filter out sounds from different sources, but I don't think I had hallucinations on it. Typically I get them when I'm pretty tired and in the right environment (something with white noise, and maybe music on two rooms down where I can't hear it too well)
At least that's how to get cool hallucinations. Uncool hallucinations just require some annoying alarm left on a little too long
@Laurel You need to take like 500mg to hallucinate, i.e. ten times the usual dose. I hear it's rather unpleasant. Mostly things like the walls being covered in spiders.
@Laurel "Special Happy" in my case would be (hypo)mania, which isn't ideal either. I prefer Specially Mentally Stable.
03:44
@alphabet Ah well I only took enough to try to prevent my arms from breaking out in hives any further, so that's why
@alphabet dammit
@Laurel I haven't technically had a hypomanic episode that met all the diagnostic criteria yet, hence lack of a definitive diagnosis. But I did have this one week where...it's a long story. It was a strange experience.
04:05
@alphabet Strange things intrigue me
But considering this is a public chat, don't feel pressured lol
04:18
I should probably get to sleep instead of remembering that I can read about all this cool crap on Wikipedia
 
2 hours later…
06:33
@Laurel Wikipedia is often not very reliable on medical issues
You have the odd article that's surprising. Probably written by @Cowp. Other than that, especially on issues where there is a lot of noise mixed in with the signal, such as cardiovascular diseases, it's pretty hit or miss
06:55
LOL, thank you!
Doom of the day.
07:15
@CowperKettle haha I'm not near any seas burns some crude and some polite oil
07:32
Wordle 820 4/6

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09:08
Wordle 820 6/6

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@M.A.R. I have nothing to fear until water rises by 240 meters
 
2 hours later…
11:13
Word of the day: instellation
Noun: instellation (uncountable)
  1. (astronomy) A generalization of insolation to stars other than the sun.
  2. (archaic, rare) The placing of something among the stars.
> Pioneering work related to Venus's atmosphere (Simpson 1929; Komabayasi 1967; Ingersoll 1969; Nakajima et al. 1992) established a maximum instellation above which a planet can no longer increase its infrared cooling into space.
Related term: hycean planet (A hycean planet (portmanteau of hydrogen and ocean)[1] is a hypothetical type of planet, described as a hot, water-covered planet with a hydrogen atmosphere)
I wonder if any land animal has returned to water habitation and developed gills anew, through repeat evolution.
11:44
Japanese of the day: okiagari-koboshi
Okiagari-koboshi or Okiagari-kobōshi (起き上がり小法師, getting-up little boy) is a Japanese traditional doll. The toy is made from papier-mâché and is a roly-poly toy, designed so that its weight causes it to return to an upright position if it is knocked over. Okiagari-kobōshi is considered a good-luck charm and a symbol of perseverance and resilience. == History == The makers of the earliest okiagari-kobōshi likely modeled them after a Chinese toy called Budaoweng (不倒翁; not-falling-down old man) that is similarly weighted. Okiagari-kobōshi has long been popular among Japanese children. It is mentioned...
 
1 hour later…
13:11
Word of the day: walking marriage
> In a walking marriage, both partners live under the roof of their respective extended families during the day; however, at night it is common for the man to visit and stay at the woman's house (if given permission) until sunrise. Therefore, they do not technically live in the same household, but they are free to visit when granted permission. Children of parents in a walking marriage are not raised by their father.
> The brothers of the mother (maternal uncles) in the marriage take on the responsibilities of the father since the father is not typically around during the daytime.
The Mosuo (Chinese: 摩梭; pinyin: Mósuō; also spelled Moso, Mosso or Musuo), often called the Naxi among themselves, are a small ethnic group living in China's Yunnan and Sichuan provinces. Consisting of a population of approximately 40,000, many of them live in the Yongning region, around Lugu Lake, in Labai, in Muli, and in Yanyuan. Although the Mosuo are culturally distinct from the Nashi, the Chinese government places them as members of the Nashi minority. The Nashi are about 320,000 people spread throughout different provinces in China. Their culture has been documented by indigenous scholars...
@CowperKettle Or pay teachers a living wage.
3
And that too
#Worldle #604 1/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
🌎 Sep 17, 2023 🌍
🔥 33 | Avg. Guesses: 4.31
🟧🟨🟩 = 3

globle-game.com
#globle
Wordle 820 3/6

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Daily Quordle 601
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m-w.com/games/quordle/
13:38
@CowperKettle that's just weird
@alphabet uh, no?
@M.A.R. I mean, usually they have you try a few different antidepressants to see if they can find one that works, assuming the first one they give you doesn't help.
13:57
@M.A.R. People are strange, when you're a stranger.
14:09
From CNN:
> A state-owned railway in this country told women not to put on makeup on trains
I think they meant "on on."
@alphabet lipstick graffiti is no laughing matter
> Blaine the Mono was a sentient monorail that went insane over the course of its long lifetime.
> It had a top speed of over 900 miles per hour and produced a sonic boom. Even though he existed in Mid-World, it knew of other worlds, including New York City. It enjoyed doing John Wayne, Humphrey Bogart and Jimmy Stewart impressions.
@CowperKettle the archnemesis of Thomas the train
Tank engine. Whatever.
There's a Skyrim mod that replaces dragons with Thomas
14:35
Wait, I misread the CNN headline. It actually is correct
I need sleep
@alphabet ideally it's not "usually". Most of the window shopping the patients do themselves, and often not even giving the drug enough time before moving on to the next
15:01
@M.A.R. Yeah, I'm not sure what the statistics are. But I think that if, after a few months on a medication, your condition hasn't changed, you usually end up getting put on something else, or at least a much higher dose (I went through this a couple times). If you have depression for long enough you end up going through this quite a lot (based on my experience and what I've heard from others).
Maybe it's just an American thing. I think it's because reactions to different antidepressants vary so widely between patients.
 
2 hours later…
16:33
@Robusto That would be too easy.
3 hours ago, by Robusto
@CowperKettle Or pay teachers a living wage.
The internet has made it a bit easier for the tech savvy to find some quality materials that have been generously made available.
@CowperKettle Faces look ugly, when you're alone.
The inner face 😈
Not to be confused with an inner facial :-/
17:31
"It's dead out here, yo/ Tip on out". In The Wire, Omar is doing some surveillance in a truck and he says this and that seems to mean to "leave/go". Is that Baltimore slang or do you recognize this phrasal verb?
18:01
Cheers
18:46
@alphabet no you're right. But your crappy experience is a bit special. Usually people get some sort of response, even with the first drug
19:06
@M.A.R. IIRC, the real issue is: the majority of depressive episodes end after 6-12 months with no treatment. Assuming you try your first drug somewhere in the middle of the episode, there's a good chance that you'll get better even if the drug does nothing.
19:33
@M.A.R. About 30% don't get any response
And 15% of depressed people don't get any response to all current methods of depression treatment. Including electric shocks, etc.
@CowperKettle After a year without much response, I'd recommend seeing a doctor to figure out what else they can try. Worst thing that happens, you get some freaky side effects and have to switch back.
In Russia, in a state-operated clinic... I will visit, but when they recommend an antipsychotic, I'll run away :)
@CowperKettle I mean, there's a decent chance a doctor here would try aripiprazole or what have you. But yeah I'm guessing that those clinics are not exactly world-class.
Here there were endless advertisements on TV when Abilify got approved as an adjunct therapy for depression. Only in America...
Daily Octordle #601
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If your antidepressant pill gains arms and legs and starts following you around, you definitely need an antipsychotic.
19:51
R.L. Stevenson of the day.
@alphabet Wow
In Russia, there are some ads too, but they are usually about some stuff for sore throat
Probably there are laws against "real" drugs being promoted on TV
Yeah, in most countries these sorts of ads are illegal.
The weirdest part is where they show fun cartoons to distract you from the audio listing all the side effects.
Kadyrov emerged from the box, alive.
There were rumors.
Modi-Meloni meeting posts still trending on Twitter.
Allegedly Kadyrov had his personal doctor buried alive
Rootl game #108

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20:03
@Mitch Women seem wicked when you're unwanted.
@CowperKettle Schrödinger's despot?
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t 1) I don't recognize 'tip on out' as anything, but if I heard it in context I might (It's possible for someone to put a few random OK sounding things together as an entirely new slang phrasing without it sounding too weird). I'm not from Baltimore but I have seen the Wire (a couple years ago). The Baltimore accent people keep raving about is only spoken by white people there and only by lower-middle class (like the school secretary if I remember correctly).
So tip on out' is probably some AAE (African American English) or could be just idiosyncratic for Omar.
@alphabet He does look like he can. Maybe his dad was more sane, but Ramzan is like Elon Musk of the Caucasus
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t 2) You should give a youtbue link so we can hear the particular phrasing and context.
@Mitch Strange. I look wonderful when I'm alone.
@Vikas Because you haven't been to Club 27.
20:06
@Robusto Streets have more potholes after the snow melts
@Mitch Faces look out of the potholes.
@Vikas snort
@Robusto That song is a lot creepier than I thought
Pennywise the Dancing Clown looks out of the potholes when you're alone.
@alphabet Those cartoons are awesome
@Mitch Well, Ol' Jim's been dead for over 50 years now, innit?
20:09
He would have been a great president of the USA now.
At the sprightly young age of 77.
people are complaining about a gerontocracy.
@Mitch I remember them showing people flying because they're taking "the purple pill" (prilosec?) ... and I don't think they ever once mentioned the product.
Stop complaining. Choose better
@Mitch I choose Putin.
When you're in Russia, you'll always choose Putin,
Cause streets are uneven, if you don't
@CowperKettle You don't have to. That part's been done for you already.
20:11
@Robusto Most of the Pharma ads I see (like during news shows or Jeopardy! (because that's where the old people at), just show a lot of happy people, whether it's diabetes, end stage renal disease, or psoriasis.
I used to see ads for Claritin for years before it was available, and it was all blue skies and bunnies
@Mitch The best are the erectile dysfunction ads. Those couples always seem so happy together.
@CowperKettle Do the trains run on time?
And then half the ad is a litany of warnings: "May cause rectal bleeding, ulcerated eyeballs, heart attack, stroke, erectile disfunction in women, hot flashes in men" and so on.
> Metro trains are running smoothly in Moscow, as usual, but getting around the city center by car has become more complicated, and annoying, because anti-drone radar interferes with navigation apps.
20:13
@Robusto exploding nose hairs, leaky toe jam, vague unease at toll booths.
Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, large CPI rises ...
Toast
I'm using a VPN, and today many sites assume I'm from France, so I get these.
huh
20:20
I mean, Reddit offers me French-language meme subs
@CowperKettle Wait, you're not from France? @jlliagre is going to be very disappointed.
@Mitch Thanks. It's s04e09, the segment can't be found on youtube. The context is Renaldo and Omar are in a car (Renaldo in the driver's seat) scoping Andre's corner store, after the quote, Renaldo drives away with Omar: "R: You told the man you not gonna kill no one./ O: I gave my word on that./ R: Fuck we doing back here then, Papa? / O: I can still put a gun in Andre's face, right? That man got some explaining to do. It's dead out here, yo. Tip on out.". They roll away, scene change.
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t That seems like just a part of Omar's idiolect.
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t SUre, it probably means 'Let's go'
20:24
Verb: tip out (third-person singular simple present tips out, present participle tipping out, simple past and past participle tipped out)
  1. (transitive) To extract (something) by tipping over the container that contains it.
  2. tip out (third-person singular simple present tips out, present participle tipping out, simple past and past participle tipped out)
  3. (of a person who receives tips for their work) To provide a percentage of tips to certain co-workers who support the work done by the waiter.
  4. It was my first day on the job, so when I tipped out the bus boy but didn't tip out the bartender, my shift supervisor let me know that bartenders should be tipped out too, and to make sure that my tip outs were at least 5% of my day's total tips."You...
Noun: tip out (plural tip outs)
  1. An amount or percentage of a server's tips that the server shares, either voluntarily or as mandated in a tip sharing or tip pooling agreement, with other employees such as bussers, bartenders, back waiters and host/hostesses whose job duties indirectly assist the server.
With the "on" as an intensifier
Like "move on"
Yeah, what @Robusto said. He just made it up and it is within normal parlance to accept it as a new way to say it.
> To extract (something) by tipping over the container that contains it.
After baking and cooling, tip the cake out of its pan.
Tip it out of the jar.
@CowperKettle Yeah none of that is relevant
Thanks, all useful.
@CowperKettle No, that's not it.
20:27
The wiktionary entries don't involve 'on' at all.
@CowperKettle Probably Sharon Stone, not the funniest meme.
@Mitch Well, I think that's just an intensifier: "get on out" or "get on up" or "go on along" and so on.
The way I would parse it (it sounds both totally new and entirely natural to me) that the verb 'tip' is mostly meaningless or with 'out' describes a general direction away, and the 'on' means something like 'start to' or 'continuing'.
Most of these phrasal verbs are really hard to extract meaning compositionally (ie out of the meaning of the constituent words). They just mean what they mean.
@Robusto Get down!
Then get back up again.
20:31
To get down you gotta get on up first.
OK you start down there and I'll start from up here.
And we'll switch back and forth.
@Robusto Like the rest of us, I know @CowperKettle is from Delft, the Netherlands.
creating a energy production process.
Reddit's Ask the Doctor sub is great.
20:32
Also 4x11, "Now go ahead and write my ticket so I can tip on out." when Omar brought his clock to Proposition Joe for repair etc.
I wonder what he means by "ticket"
@jlliagre ?? I'm from Hoboken
@CowperKettle Joe has a repair shop. He gives you a ticket when you bring something in.
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Again, Omar's idiolect. It don't change nothin'.
Joe gives a ticket so he can come back later and claim the clock. Joe repairs stuff.
So he knows what object you brought in when you go pick it up later.
Jinx!
20:34
Double jinx!
Damn
You owe a lotta cokes, buster.
wait... let me talk to my lawyer
We already paid him off with Pepsi.
There's your mistake mister
20:35
@Mitch Nobody's perfect.
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Maybe a screenwriter's impression of a Baltimor AAvE accent.
Not to say the writer is wrong. On a quality show like The Wire you would favor giving them the benefit of the doubt.
@Mitch Jack Lemmon is from Hoboken too?
@Robusto https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/ef38e9b9-55c6-4671-9e44-6e76414c63a7
Archer.
20:40
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t We here on ELU chat don't know but the internet seems to have discussed this already: google for tip on out
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t That postdates The Wire, so it sounds influenced by same.
> Lemmon was born on February 8, 1925, in an elevator at Newton-Wellesley Hospital in Newton, Massachusetts.
I think it's time the US sued Russia for using our red, white and blue flag colors. Hmm, probably also France. Who do these countries think they are, anyway?
Anyways, thanks all. Cheers!
@jlliagre Jack Lemmon?
20:42
@s.H.a.R.p.R.i.F.t Salut!
@Mitch Who are you calling a slut?
@Robusto Salut Salaud!
Is that better?
@Robusto Colors are in the mind. They don't exist objectively.
@Mitch moderately
@CowperKettle Sir Isaac Newton would beg to disagree with you.
20:44
@CowperKettle Sure they do. retina cells react to different frequencies different;y
Ah!
> And many standing round a waterfall
See one bow each, yet not the same to all,
But each a hand's breadth further than the next.
The sun on falling waters writes the text
Which yet is in the eye or in the thought.
It was a hard thing to undo this knot.
also there is a layer of neurons, I forget if it is before the optic chiasm or after, that converts those three into red-green, blue-yellow, and ... some other third pair. the 'opponent process'
Opponent-process theory is a psychological and neurological model that accounts for a wide range of behaviors, including color vision. This model was first proposed in 1878 by Ewald Hering, a German physiologist, and later expanded by Richard Solomon, a 20th-century psychologist. == Visual perception == The opponent-process theory was first developed by Ewald Hering. He noted that there are color combinations that we never see, such as reddish-green or bluish-yellow. Opponent-process theory suggests that color perception is controlled by the activity of three opponent systems. In the theory, he...
hm... it goes on to say that the theory has been challenged.
well anyway color is measurable objectively.
so there's color in reality or we're all hallucinating exactly the same way.
Someone could have a set of genetic mutations that swaps green detecting cells and red detecting ones so that they'd perceive redness as greeness (and vice versa)...
I never heard about the Opponent-process theory. I should read it.
20:50
but it'd make absolutely no difference externally because they'd associate the word 'green' with exactly the same things as those without the mutations do, even though internall the wiring is different.
@CowperKettle Don't trust it too much. or sorry don't rely on it too much.
the authors/editors of wikipedia are intentionally trying to mislead you (usually!)
I mean think of yourself.
and then project on to other people, their motivations and...
uh oh
If I do that then other people are awful awful human beings
They gave some colorblind monkeys a retrovirus to give them color vision. Here's whow they tested if they were successful:
May 1, 2020 at 1:08, by Robusto
They let the monkeys play with a panel that had a number of squares. If they pressed the right square, they would get a treat. The right square was always a pale red, the same value in grayscale as the other squares. Eventually the treated monkeys could always get the right square first time. Kinda brilliant.
You don't know what they're thinking about anything else though.
Because they didn't -ask-!
-Always- ask the monkeys.
What, about investment strategies?
Well... couldn't hurt?
Yekaterinburg
21:09
Daily Sequence Octordle #601
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Score: 54
@jlliagre ^ My best ever score for a Sequence.
Everything just clicked.
Maybe it's just the consequences of recoil, from using the rifle in this position.
Doctors should always carefully collect patient history. Anamnesis is king.
(from Greek: ἀνά, aná, "open", and μνήσις, mnesis, "memory")
21:30
If you want to go down a rabbit hole, read this extended series of articles about color vision: handprint.com/HP/WCL/color1.html
@Robusto Bien ouèj!
Thank you!
Daily Sequence Octordle #601
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Score: 65
But I should read this first: sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/…
About genetics.
@Mitch There are no red-detecting and green-detecting cells; there are three kinds of cone cells which all respond to differing degrees at different points along the color spectrum (not really centered at red/green/blue). Your brain then does the math to convert the these responses and the differences between them (along with data from rod cells) into lightness, red/green, and yellow/blue.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
21:39
@alphabet You mean this one?
DALL-E seems to have trouble generating images of a racoon giving a TED talk
It seems to have trouble creating realistic raccoon eyes
22:43
Far-right politician installed by the US as President of Guatemala in a coup in 1954. Ruled until 1957, was killed by a leftist guard.
They should have told him to shave off the moustache

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