English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MetaEd

05:09

Wordle 756 4/6

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CowperKettle

06:05

My second day without insulin and sugar-lowering tablets. I woke up feeling a bit shell-shocked, like it was prior to starting on insulin back in 2011. When I stood up fast from the bed, my vision got dark, and I felt like losing balance.

I looked up the blood sugar scanner, and it indicated three episodes of hypoglycemia during my night sleep.

What gives?

What can cause nocturnal hypoglycemia in the absense of insulin and tablets?

And how could my starting on short-term insulin negate this negative effect starting from 2011?

This is too complex for me.

CowperKettle

06:34

Half an hour after breakfast, blood sugar jumped to 8.5, but then subsided to normal in the next 30 minutes.

alphabet

@CowperKettle Huh. You'd think insulin would make hypoglycemia worse.

CowperKettle

Yes

But I only used the ultra-fast insulin, Apidra, its action peters out within 3 hours.

So it should never have affected the sleep period.

CowperKettle

08:11

> The glucose level in CSF is proportional to the blood glucose level and corresponds to 60-70% of the concentration in blood.

I never knew that. I thought that glucose had the priority for delivery to the brain.

CSF glucose

CSF glucose or glycorrhachia is a measurement used to determine the concentration of glucose in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF). == Normal values in humans == The glucose level in CSF is proportional to the blood glucose level and corresponds to 60-70% of the concentration in blood. Therefore, normal CSF glucose levels lie between 2.5 and 4.4 mmol/L (45–80 mg/dL). == Abnormalities in CSF glucose concentration == === Low CSF glucose levels === Hypoglycorrhachia (low CSF glucose levels) can be caused by CNS infections, inflammatory conditions, subarachnoid hemorrhage, hypoglycemia (low blood...

CowperKettle

09:28

Amazing. Sometimes, antibodies against insulin can hamper insulin's action during the day, but due to "change in pH" become unlatched from the bound insulin during the night, causing episodes of hypoglycemia: ec.bioscientifica.com/view/journals/ec/7/1/EC-17-0309.xml

I never knew this.

It's so complicated.

Vikas

12:22

> Less than a month after the historic visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to the US, a Congressional Senatorial Committee has passed a resolution recognising Arunachal Pradesh as an integral part of India.

The resolution was introduced by Senators Jeff Merkley, Bill Hagerty, Tim Kaine and Chris Van Hollen on Thursday.

Oops. Not good for China.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle the general underlying principle applies to every compound in the blood. There's an equilibrium between the unbound state of a drug and the version bound (to albumin, usually, for small drugs, and to antibodies, usually, for biologic drugs). If the unbound concentration drops, some of the bound drug will dissociate and replenish its supply, though not wholly. Only the unbound portion is biologically active

If the endocrinologist doesn't know about some insulin doses you took, in light of this, I would mention them to him/her.

It's possible, I'm just spitballing here, that you have nonspecific immunologic antibodies in your blood, and one reason insulin helps you feel better is by merely clearing your blood of them for a while

Though antibody panels in routine lab tests should pick such things up I think

M.A.R.

12:52

@Vikas I feel like two centuries later India would still be in territorial disputes with one country or another

Robusto

#Worldle #540 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🏙️🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

🌎 Jul 15, 2023 🌍
🔥 30 | Avg. Guesses: 4.43
🟨🟩 = 2

globle-game.com
#globle

Wordle 756 5/6

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M.A.R.

13:26

Wordle 756 5/6

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M.A.R.

13:36

Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine, one of the most important textbooks for medical students, has dedicated an entire chapter to modern vaccine hesitancy

Robusto

13:50

Daily Quordle 537
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

alphabet

Ok so this has been bothering me.

I've been learning about L-vocalization

But I've noticed that, in a lot of words (like milk, valve, ball) I seem to have a weird sound that I can't transcribe

The tip of my tongue doesn't move, but the back of my tongue does. I don't think it's an an ordinary vowel sound, but it's not a typical /l/ either.

Anyway this makes my head hurt.

Robusto

Kind of a cross between /l/ and /w/ I think.

An /l/ with the tongue dropped back in the mouth.

Daily Octordle #537
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Score: 66

Crucial failing early.

tchrist

14:13

@Cerberus I just can't believe they shut down the Acropolis simply because it's over 100 degrees! Since when are the Greek gods made out of snow? If we did that out west here, nothing would ever be open in the summer. "No sorry, you aren't allowed to go to the Grand Canyon today. Please come back next winter."

alphabet

I suspect this sound is the voiced velar lateral approximant, which Wiki says occurs in Southern AmE (not my dialect, of course, but Wiki may be wrong about its distribution).

Vikas

@M.A.R. Of course. I was thinking of asking a question like: What are the political/economic/strategic benefits of prolonging such disputes even when you know the present reality is never going to change (unless there is a world war).

alphabet

Confusingly, if I try to make this sound word-initially, it sounds rather odd

One redditor reports the same thing, though they do it word-initially also

> I was arguing the other day precisely that the point of articulation for American English liquids was actually primarily velar/uvular and only secondarily (if at all) alveolar, which I believe your account confirms. This is well discussed for the so-called molar or “bunched” articulation of the American /r/, but for some reason it’s rarely even mentioned for /l/.

That makes perfect sense; it is somewhat like the molar/bunched /r/, which I also use very often

Cerberus

15:08

@tchrist Praesumably it is only shut for tourists?

tchrist

@Cerberus I've never before heard of a national park or monument being closed to tourists due to "excessive" heat. Here we just post signs warning tourists of the heat and directing them to carry and drink water at all times. But it's common for visiting Europeans to die in our national parks when they don't respect our signage. Maybe because it's in English. :)

Cerberus

It's common for people to die: perhaps that fact might have influenced the decision?

Just a thought.

tchrist

If you try to walk several miles under direct sun when it's 120 degrees without water, it's quite possible that you shall die. A 67-year-old man attempted to do that here recently at 123 degrees in the desert, and perished in the attempt.

But we still never close parks and monuments in the desert southwest just because it's hot out. Not even Death Valley is closed this weekend, and there they're predicting it may reach 130 degrees. But yes, the rangers are rather worried about tourists dying, and are doing everything they can to avoid letting that happen this side of forbidding entrance. You can't close the desert for being hot.

So there's extra signage and active duty personnel "intrusively" thrusting water upon the unwary and unprepared.

Much news coverage of this over the past three days here.

The Guardian: Death Valley threatens temperature records but tourists keep coming.

And that's much, much hotter than the Acropolis.

> “I was really noticing, you know, I didn’t feel so hot, but my body was working really hard to cool myself,” said Jusehus, an active runner who was visiting from Germany. His photo showed the thermometer reading at 120F (48.8C).

Okay, that shows that tourists from the wetlands don't understand how immeasurably low humidity alters one's perceptions.

"I didn't feel so hot."

Exactly.

Germany has no deserts.

So they just don't understand.

This is wrong:

> Death Valley is a narrow, 282ft (86-meter) basin that is below sea level but situated among high, steep mountain ranges, according to the park service’s website.

No, Death Valley is nearly 3,000 square miles.

It just happens to be almost 100 yards below sea level.

So you can't call it a 282-foot basin. That's just not right.

It's got the highest temperatures, but everything in the desert southwest is hot in the summer if it's at low elevation (read: under a mile).

Robusto

15:59

@tchrist I just walked for an hour in mid-80s temps (but direct sun) and I wouldn't even recommend that for someone who is not fit.

tchrist

Yes, probably not. I do do that quite regularly, but I also understand my environment.

Robusto

I should have ridden my bicycle, because at least there would have been some ventilation.

tchrist

You weren't walking fast enough then. :)

I think the wetlanders just can't understand how to operate in the drylands.

Robusto

No. The only really light sun shirt I have is an old blue-and-black silk number, and even that was too hot.

tchrist

I try to wear quick-dry garments.

Robusto

16:05

Silk is quick-dry. And the material on this shirt is so thin it dries while you're walking. But I do wish I had a white one.

I don't wear cotton anymore at all.

tchrist

I put one on this morning only because it was in the 50s when I got up. I'm ditching it now to go out.

Robusto

Heh, The lows here are in the 70s, just at daybreak.

tchrist

Our skies are immaculate this morning, wholly unblemished.

Robusto

Yeah, ours are too, and that's the problem.

tchrist

Indeed.

But I don't think people are worried about it being too hot here the way they are so many other places.

Robusto

16:08

We ate lunch with my brother on our patio yesterday, which is shaded, and at 95° it was not even uncomfortable.

tchrist

It's still only 65 here.

@Robusto Yes, that's how it works here.

It would be unthinkable to any European outside of say, Extremadura, to imagine that 95 could ever be anything but mortally uncomfortable. The wetlanders do not understand us.

Robusto

My friend who rode the Ride the Rockies event said it was a real shit-show. They had to deviate from the route due to snow.

tchrist

I was wondering about that.

Robusto

@tchrist Also indeed.

@tchrist Plus it rained nearly every day. Nothing will take the starch out of a cyclist like climbing in a cold rain.

tchrist

yuck

Looks like we're only expecting 80 or 82 today, tops.

Which is far below average for this date.

Robusto

16:12

Good on ya. We could use some 80s down here. Or at least some clouds.

Looks like our monsoon may come creeping back next week, tail between its legs.

tchrist

I had a touch of monsoon thunderstorm at nightfall last night.

But not much.

Robusto

Yeah. When the monsoon doesn't show, summer can be awful.

tchrist

We'll be back up to almost 100 by Monday. The weekend is a pleasant excursion from that.

Robusto

I'm just glad I'm in the High Desert, not the Low.

tchrist

omigod yes

You can visit the national parks and monuments of the Colorado Plateau in July, but choose wisely: make sure to only go to the high ones.

Robusto

16:16

I wouldn't want to visit the parks in southern Utah this time of year.

tchrist

That's downtown Boulder this past month, so a little lower than me. But you can see how weird it is for this time of year.

@Robusto Cedar Breaks is ok.

And the top of Zion, not the bottom.

Robusto

Yes.

tchrist

Bryce is pretty high.

North Rim, not South Rim.

Robusto

Yeah.

tchrist

Arches and Canyonlands would be too hot.

Robusto

16:18

But if you travel down whatever that highway is between Salinas and Las Vegas, in July you feel like you're descending into hell.

tchrist

Yes.

Even Monument Valley is rough right now.

Robusto

Yeah.

Speaking of which, how did Monument Valley ever get to be so iconic for a place to situate movie ranches? There's nothing for cattle to eat there!

Sure, it's striking, but anybody who's ever been there would think, "Hmm, not a great place for pasture land."

But I guess logic never appealed to art directors.

List of appearances of Monument Valley in the media

Monument Valley, located on the Navajo Nation within Arizona and Utah, has been featured in many forms of media since the 1930s. It is perhaps most famous for its use in many John Ford films, such as Stagecoach (1939) and The Searchers (1956). It has also been featured in such films as Easy Rider (1969), directed by and co-starring Dennis Hopper; Forrest Gump (1994), directed by Robert Zemeckis, and The Eiger Sanction (1975), directed by and starring Clint Eastwood; and in two episodes of the popular United Kingdom television show Doctor Who: "The Impossible Astronaut" (23 April 2011) and "Day...

Holy cow, it's even worse than I thought.

Looks like John Ford really liked that place.

tchrist

Utterly.

But not udderly, the poor cows.

Laurel

@Robusto I didn't realize this was a real place XD

:| who took my image

Robusto

16:33

Laurel

Robusto

Hmm.

It is clickable, though.

tchrist

Laurel

There we go

Robusto

You really didn't know Monument Valley is a real place?

Laurel

16:35

I only had to pretend to answer a MSE question to get this image lol

Robusto

Where in the hell (i.e., the USA) did you grow up?

Laurel

@Robusto It's a video game with impossible geometry

tchrist

I don't think people reared on the East Coast have any idea that anywhere else in the country even exists.

It's not very well covered by their press.

Laurel

@Robusto :/ East coast USA. Like I obviously saw it as a generic western background in movies but never connected that with the name

Robusto

@Laurel You mean like Portal?

Laurel

16:37

@Robusto Well I'm pretty sure the that's possible geometry but impossible teleportation.

There was a game 10 years ago called monument valley

Robusto

Unless geometry includes tesseraction.

@tchrist ^

Hmm, is divvy the only English word with a double V? I suspect not, but I don't really know.

Laurel

It's so weird seeing things priced 75¢. That's cheaper than a micro transaction if you don't account for inflation

Robusto

I mean, besides past tense and whatnot.

tchrist

@Laurel Everyone should take the Grand Circle road trip of the Colorado Plateau at least once in their life, and preferably many, many times. It's the Great American Roadtrip.

@Robusto savvy

Laurel

@Robusto You're not savvy

Robusto

16:47

@Laurel Right? That's the world I grew up in.

Laurel

Damn sniped

Robusto

Jinxed. Not sniped. Tell him jinx and he owes you a coke.

@tchrist Of course.

Laurel

Jinx lol

Robusto

@tchrist You owe Laurel a coke. Pay up.

Laurel

@Robusto I recently went to the mall (which was basically dead) and saw that most of the gumball machines cost 50¢ which made me sad

tchrist

16:48

skivvies, flivver, bivvy, navvy, chivvy, pavvy, civvy, muvver, luvvie.

sivvens

bruvver

Laurel

I see you just got back from regexing the *nix dictionary/wordlist

tchrist

bovver boy

@Laurel yes but no

It's from my public unilook program, which uses the OED wordlist instead of the normal Unix one.

You're welcome to install it yourself.

Robusto

@tchrist I knew you wouldn't fail me.

tchrist

It's like a Unicode-aware look program. In includes a UTF8-encoded word list sorted on secondary keys that contain only alphabetics, allowing thus a binary search per the original. But it has parts of speech.

Laurel

@tchrist Tussle?

tchrist

16:53

yes

Laurel

Well I'm at the Y on my phone so it probably wouldn't help me rn

tchrist

> › -belling, -boasting, -caring, -cleaning, -cockering, -deeming, -descanting, -drugging, -farming, -fasting, -judging, -liking, -meddling, -packaging, -packing, -padding, -pinching, -planning, -ploughing, -pruning, -revving, -soiling, -striving ← over-
ˈbevvied [adj.] ← bevvy
bevvy [n.]
bivvy [n.]
bivvy bag ← bivvy | bivy [n.]
bivvy sack ← bivvy | bivy [n.]
bovver [n.]
bovver bird ← bovver
bovver boot ← bovver
bovver boy ← bovver
bruvver [n.]
chavvy [adj.]
chiv(v)y [n.]
chivvy [v.1]
chivvy [v.2]

Laurel

Imma go back to the pool

tchrist

Don't bring your fonez.

Caveant improvvisatrici.

Robusto

@tchrist The OED makes their wordlist available online? If so, that's surprisingly big of them, considering what they charge for their online membership.

tchrist

17:02

@Robusto No, it's not "online".

Robusto

You have to buy it?

tchrist

Gosh.

They distributed the SGML to a number of universities during the 90s. I had an affiliation, and I used that to derive the wordlist.

Robusto

Ah. Before they were internet "savvy"?

tchrist

Yes.

Robusto

Hee-hee!

tchrist

17:03

I think Cerb has it on a CD, too.

That's technically the OED2E+, as it is data from later than the straight 2E. It includes various supplemental updates through something like 1989 or 1991. Can't recall details.

It was briefly something you could buy a CD for that ran on Windows.

Robusto

Much better than getting out a magnifying glass and poring through the cheap printed version, which I still have.

Laurel

17:34

@Robusto You can see their wordlist actually. Just go to a free page (I use "chopse") and browse the sidebar. Not in a friendly format unfortunately

jlliagre

19:20

🌎 Jul 15, 2023 🌍
🔥 2 | Avg. Guesses: 6.22
🟨🟥🟩 = 3

globle-game.com
#globle

#Worldle #540 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🏙️🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Wordle 756 5/6

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Daily Quordle 537
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m-w.com/games/quordle/

Daily Octordle #537
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Score: 67

Vikas

#Worldle #541 1/6 (100%)
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https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

Tom will have tough time with this.

alphabet

So I am extremely proud of this answer: english.stackexchange.com/a/610104/470858

My phonetic analysis of "cash me outside"

Feel free to leave comments listing any mistakes; I am not a phonetician.

jlliagre

19:40

Wordle (Andalûh) #555 6/6

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https://wordle.andaluh.es

tchrist

@alphabet It's nearly impossible for me to understand her without subtitles in the clip you posted.

I didn't listen to the whole thing; was the phrase in question actually contained within that clip?

And if so, could you kindly indicate at what time offset?

jlliagre

Latin Wordle 560 3/6

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https://wordle.latindictionary.io/

tchrist

@jlliagre Hurts my brain to see it written because my brain hearing it fills in the standard orthography but seeing it written I struggle. I'm trying to get Rob to visit down there, and I almost told him that except for Granada it's more like American/Canarian Spanish, but things like that remind me just how slight a statement that is.

I was explaining madrugá to him, because their words ending in -ada become -á like those ending -ado become -ao or -au.

But "everybody" drops the the -d- in -ado, depending on register, so that's not as distinctive.

You hear that constantly in rapid casual speech even in the North, so it's by no means uniquely an Andalusian trait.

jlliagre

@tchrist Yes, I was struggling to write the same but you are quicker than me :-)

Or than I, who knows.

tchrist

There's this thing that happens in fluent speakers listening to others where they predict what's going to be said and match that up to the formal written version even when what comes out is pretty seriously different. I think that's why learners have so hard of a time listening to actual speech. Their brains aren't processing it predictively, or fast enough.

This may be worse in English or Dutch or French or Portuguese than in Spanish or Italian or German, but really, it happens in any language.

They've learned how to say a word in isolation, in "citation form". But they've never really learned how it gets said in fluent connected speech, and that is a learning process that can occur only through endless listening so that the prediction model gets trained. It cannot be taught the way citation forms can. Maybe.

I've probably said nothing original here. I'm either completely wrong, or else this is completely obvious to any polyglot.

@alphabet Oh hell, now I understand what's wrong. Batch is to bash unlike catch is to cash.

But the real problem is that there exists one or more "dialects" heard in the speech of younger women in the rural or pre-higher-education Southeast that my ears treat as unparsable mumbles. It's a matter of elocution, and of articulation.

Mitch

20:00

@alphabet nice

But

tchrist

I still sometimes struggle to understand these women even when they get a PhD and are pushing up sixty, especially when they're tired.

Mitch

You didn't answer the OP's question, which is "Is how she talks AAE?"

alphabet

@Mitch My latest edits try to clarify that a bit

Her speech shows some AAVE-like aspects, but I don't think this can be answered conclusively

Mitch

To be quick about it... the phrase "Cash me outside, how bout dat?" is a set phrase in AAE.

tchrist

Your eye-dialect still misrepresents her speech, but if it didn't we probably woont know wacha sed.

Mitch

20:03

Her own accent, from listening to longer interviews with her, seems like nothing special beyond the common monphthongization of /ai/ to /a/ (and hers is very light).

Her mom has a sound slightly different from the daughter, but I can't quite quantify it.

tchrist

She has many, many speech characteristics that depart from those heard in typical broadcast English on national TV news channels.

Mitch

But neither of them speak anywhere near AAE. Both sound like GenAmE with a little southernism thrown in.

tchrist

@Mitch *speaks

alphabet

@Mitch To what extent was it a set phrase before her?

tchrist

It be clear English are losing their singulars but you don't gosta hurry these alongs.

alphabet

20:07

@Mitch I do think that her dropping and/or glottalizing of word-final /d/ is quite unusual.

Mitch

@alphabet We could do it quantitatively (go through all the lexical sets and possible sound differences) -or- we could just sort of say 'it feels lke to me like Liverpudlian or East LA or etc'

tchrist

@alphabet Is she just devoicing and not releasing?

Mitch

@alphabet In the separate interviews you linked, more than one (OK 2 people) said that it is a normal phrase in AAE to challenge someone to take the argument outside where they can possibly upgrade to a physical fight.

tchrist

Don't know that word-final /t/ is released in her much either.

alphabet

@tchrist To me it sounds like it's being either glottalized or dropped entirely.

Mitch

20:10

@alphabet I didn't hear that in any of her regular speech. But I may have missed it.

tchrist

She doesn't fully finish ANY of her words that end in consonants apart from |S|.

Mitch

I drop some things at the ends of words when speaking more vernacularly.

maybe a few at the front

and a lot in between

tchrist

She's even dropping her final nasals, which just assimilate regressively and themselves disappear.

Mitch

But anyway, she may -do- a number of things but on the whole if you close your eyes and try to place her... she doesn't seem placeable to me.

Her choice in fingernail artists though is very questionable.

tchrist

try from here

@Mitch I bet she was held prisoner at a Hot Topic for years.

Mitch

20:14

To compare, my pal Iggy Azalea 'sing's/raps with a strong AAE accent, but speaks in conversation like from her native Australia.

tchrist

Listen to her no. That tells you everything you need to know.

alphabet

Anyway I think my analysis is mostly accurate. Some AAVE features, but not enough to conclusively establish anything.

Mitch

20:49

But still a good answer

user223626865

21:50

The Science of Internet Trolls

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jlliagre

22:59

La palabra del día #555 3/6

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https://lapalabradeldia.com/

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…