English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2023-07-08

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Robusto

00:20

@tchrist Thank you.

@jlliagre Did you mean Mordor?

jlliagre

@Robusto No, that's a literary quote meaning "Shit!" (I forgot the exclamation mark though)

Ubu roi: The first word of the play ("merdre", the French word for "shit", with an extra "r") may have been part of the reason for the response to the play in Paris. At the end of the performance a riot broke out, an incident which has since become "a stock element of Jarry biographia".[7] After this, Ubu Roi was outlawed from the stage, and Jarry moved it to a puppet theatre.

Robusto

@jlliagre I know.

Just joking with you. Again.

jlliagre

@Robusto Don't do it once more. I can't stand jokes!

Robusto

You might as well ask @Mitch to stop with the puns. This is how I roll.

jlliagre

@Robusto I can't stand puns either. I wonder what the hell I'm doing here...

Robusto

00:34

It's an occupational hazard.

jlliagre

Ah, les risques du métier.

Robusto

00:48

Oui.

jlliagre

Daily Jumble #493
Guesses: 37/37
1️⃣2️⃣ 1️⃣3️⃣ 1️⃣1️⃣ 1️⃣4️⃣
1️⃣5️⃣ 0️⃣4️⃣ 1️⃣6️⃣ 1️⃣7️⃣
2️⃣1️⃣ 2️⃣0️⃣ 1️⃣8️⃣ 1️⃣9️⃣
3️⃣7️⃣ 2️⃣2️⃣ 0️⃣6️⃣ 3️⃣6️⃣
3️⃣5️⃣ 2️⃣5️⃣ 2️⃣3️⃣ 2️⃣4️⃣
3️⃣1️⃣ 3️⃣4️⃣ 3️⃣2️⃣ 3️⃣3️⃣
2️⃣6️⃣ 2️⃣9️⃣ 3️⃣0️⃣ 2️⃣7️⃣
1️⃣0️⃣ 0️⃣7️⃣ 0️⃣8️⃣ 2️⃣8️⃣
https://duotrigordle.com/
Ah, finally, I cured my non-earworm.

Shite, thinking about it starts one.

Dave - Vanina (1975)

jlliagre

01:17

Let's see if solving anagrams while sleeping will cure it.

2 hours later…

MetaEd

03:26

@jlliagre what's an anagram of Alouette

Robusto

04:05

@MetaEd That would be out-elate, as in "I thought I was on Cloud 9, but she out-elated me."

Vikas

04:46

@M.A.R. Tough question lol

2 hours later…

M.A.R.

06:39

@Mitch it's "anti-anxiolytic"

@Mitch well they suck too!

1 hour later…

jlliagre

08:04

@MetaEd "Toualète"...

1 hour later…

CowperKettle

09:30

Word of the day: agnatic -- From French agnatique, from Latin agnātus (“paternal kinsman”).

CowperKettle

10:06

Confusing words of the day: quib, squib, squab

jlliagre

10:43

Cognates of the day: govern, kubernetes, cybernetics

Mitch

11:23

@M.A.R. did I misspell it?

alphabet

12:23

I have added yet another "linguistics term" to UD : Colonel American

(I know, I miscapitalized "general," but UD doesn't let you edit definitions after posting them.)

1 hour later…

Robusto

13:40

#Worldle #533 3/6 (100%)
🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟨⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

🌎 Jul 8, 2023 🌍
🔥 23 | Avg. Guesses: 4.44
🟧🟧🟥🟥🟩 = 5

globle-game.com
#globle

Wordle 749 5/6

⬛⬛⬛🟩⬛
⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

tchrist

@alphabet That's Mister Capital to you, sir!

Robusto

Daily Quordle 530
8️⃣4️⃣
6️⃣3️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

Daily Octordle #530
8️⃣7️⃣
9️⃣5️⃣
🔟🕚
4️⃣6️⃣
Score: 60

Robusto

14:19

Understanding Call Me Maybe

tchrist

14:50

Better sexing through mass spectrometry: A new study reveals that the composition of scent compounds on a person’s hand can accurately determine their sex. The analysis, using mass spectrometry, successfully predicted an individual’s sex with an impressive accuracy rate of 96.67%.

Cerberus

Oh, that's funny.

In case you meet someone you think might be transsexual.

tchrist

15:30

From the Department of Abominable Juntas:

1

Q: "de grandes dores" é termo acessório na frase "pequenas faltas são causas de grandes dores"?

A frase "pequenas faltas são causas de grandes dores" não me parece ter sentido completo sem a parte "de grandes dores". "Pequenas faltas são causas", causas do quê? Alguém pode confirmar se "de grandes dores" é adjunto adnominal de causas, portanto, um termo acessório apenas.

adjunto-adnominal termos-acessorios-da-oracao

MetaEd

Wordle 749 5/6

🟩⬛🟨⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟨⬛⬛🟨
🟩🟩⬛🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

Daily Quordle 530
6️⃣4️⃣
8️⃣3️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

Wordle 749 6/6

⬜🟩⬜⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟨⬜⬜
⬜🟩🟨🟨🟨
🟩🟩⬜🟩🟩
🟩🟩⬜🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Robusto

15:45

@tchrist There are less expensive ways to determine that.

tchrist

> 1. The scent compounds on a person’s hand can be analyzed to predict their sex, with a 96.67% accuracy rate.
2. The study suggests that scent evidence could be a valuable resource in criminal investigations, particularly when other forms of evidence are lacking.
3. Further development of these techniques could potentially identify other characteristics of an individual, such as age and racial or ethnic group.

Robusto

@tchrist I know, I know. I'm just funnin' ya.

jlliagre

Daily Octordle #530
5️⃣🕚
6️⃣🔟
7️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣3️⃣
Score: 59

Robusto

Daily Sequence Octordle #530
3️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 73

tchrist

@Robusto A proper gentleman would never show shock nor alter his intended course upon discovering an error in his initial sexing during his nocturnal pursuits, but would instead carry on through to the sticky end as though it were exactly what he had always intended.

Robusto

15:55

Quite so.

M.A.R.

16:06

@Mitch an anti-anxiety drug lyses anxiety and is an anxiolytic. An anti-anxiolytic drug counters the effects of a drug that lyses anxiety

Robusto

16:21

@tchrist Do you ever hear people say "heighth" instead of "height"? I wonder if that is a regionalism or just sloppiness.

tchrist

@Robusto Yes, you do hear it. There's a history there.

29

A: What's with the 'heigth' pandemic?

Heighth is no error It is a misunderstanding that the spelling or pronunciation of heighth is an illiterate and uneducated error. Although many wrongly consider it such, history is not on their side, nor are the better dictionaries. Despite how in particular over the last century the heighth s...

Robusto

@tchrist Wow, nice job.

user 858770

::clap clap::

👏👏

Robusto

16:42

@tchrist What I thought was that it was a carryover from "width," which has the /th/ ending. Glad to get to the width and breadth of this issue.

alphabet

@tchrist I'm looking forward to the study on whether different racial and ethnic groups have identifiably different smells. I'm sure that will be uncontroversial.

user 858770

14

Q: Spam attack on Academia Stack Exchange?

This is not related to Academia at all, however, I've noticed that in the past week or so, numerous questions pop up that are spam. I flagged around 30 of them so far (or more) but they keep popping up in the Questions section, shadowing proper questions users have that are indeed related to Acad...

discussion spam

tchrist

@alphabet Like how the Irish smell like potatoes in Idaho?

user 858770

The Academy is under attack!

alphabet

@Robusto Reminds me of the debate over "lesser"; it used to be that "to a lesser extent" was considered wrong since "less" is already comparative.

Except in this case "heighth" appears to be even older.

user 858770

16:53

Attacketh me not ye spammers.

tchrist

@user858770 Everyone is under attack.

user 858770

The best defense is a strong offense.

✊💪

We never retreat, we always attack.

LA Raiders - The Silver/Black Attack Music Video (1986) [4K] [FTD-1131]

MetaEd

@Mitch so based on the actual Wordle word list, I've changed my starting search words

I think the real question is, can I write a computer program that is substantially better at playing the game than I am.

Vikas

17:11

> So Kajol says we are governed by leaders who are uneducated and have no vision

Nobody outraging since its her opinion not necessarily a fact and also has named nobody but all Bhakts are outraged. Please don’t Yale your Entire Political Science knowledge.

What does "Yale" mean here?

alphabet

@Vikas That sentence doesn't really make sense. The "Nobody outraging" part is grammatically incorrect (unless it's part of some Indian dialect).

Vikas

@alphabet It's a tweet and I think the author didn't pay much attention to grammar.

Robusto

17:29

@Vikas Have you been reading tweets or YouTube comments or Reddit slop? Best course would be not to do that. Next best: ask the poster what "Yale" means as a verbe in that case.

alphabet

17:39

@Vikas It might be an odd pun on the words "Yale" and "yell," but I suspect that it's some sort of typo.

Robusto

@alphabet I thought this was more like "drouth" for "drought" in certain people. Then I looked it up (Etymonline) and here's what I found:

> Old English drugaþ, drugoþ "continuous dry weather injurious to vegetation, dryness," from Proto-Germanic *drugothaz, from Germanic root *dreug- "dry" with *-itho, Germanic suffix for forming abstract nouns. See dry (adj.) + -th (2), and compare high/height, etc. Drouth was a Middle English variant continued in Scottish and northern English dialect and in poetry.

Apparently if you unwind solecisms there's a good chance you find support for them in the end.

Vikas

17:53

@Robusto Actually Microsoft news on Edge redirected me there.

Kajol is an Indian actress and she said India is ruled by uneducated leaders and then this user posted about that.

@alphabet Oh.

It could be related to Yale University also. I also don't fully understand the context. Maybe the user targeted something indirectly.

Just checked the person who tweeted this is actually a leader.

Mitch

18:19

@M.A.R. OK, but...

yesterday, by Mitch

and anti-anxiolytics

12 hours ago, by M.A.R.

@Mitch it's "anti-anxiolytic"

You corrected me with the same thing.

Which is fine I suppose but, I would maintain, somewhat confusing.

@MetaEd It's Mastermind with an idiosyncratic code! Use the code!

@MetaEd I dare you!

@alphabet Before 1989, the Stasi (the East German secret police (that 1/6 of the country was an informant for (so it wasn't much of a secret))) kept a library of 'smell jars' on suspects - jars that had an article or substance from the suspect (everyone was a suspect) that carried an odor of that person, usually an article of clothing.

@Robusto And here I thought it was the violin punctuation that really made it pop.

@Robusto Stopped. They're awful.

jlliagre

18:55

Daily Sequence Octordle #530
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🕚🕛
Score: 62

M.A.R.

19:21

@Mitch I asked "coke?" because cocaine can be an anti-anxiolytic

alphabet

Never sure what to do about those "meaning in context" questions where the issue is just a simple typo. You can't really "research" them, and they aren't necessarily from non-native speakers, but they seem too easy for ELU.

M.A.R.

Otherwise I'm quite okay with having someone else in this chat confused for a change

alphabet

Also I propose we ban all questions about inventing new Greek-based "-phobia" words for everyday fears.

@M.A.R. Coke doesn't cause anxiety. But coke does.

M.A.R.

@alphabet cocaine does several things that are opposite the effects of benzodiazepines. Cocaine withdrawal probably causes anxiety itself instead

Vikas

Tomatoes have recently become very expensive here in India.

Is there a difference between Coke and coke? Other than the capital letter.

alphabet

19:40

@M.A.R. I was making a joke about capitalization, which changes the properties of Coke substantially.

M.A.R.

Well your brands and your slang are already confusing without the capitalization etiquette

Now I should confuse you about something and we can all be confused together

@Vikas one gives you diabetes, the other makes you a CEO

alphabet

20:12

@M.A.R. Then there's the kind used as fuel

Robusto

@alphabet I hereby dub this scandal "Phobiagate" ... a portmanteau of phobia and Watergate ...

tchrist

20:48

@alphabet The problem is that that's not what it's being used for. It's being used to mean opposition towards or even hatred of some particular thing. It has nothing to do with fear itself.

Cerberus

Using it to mean fear is better, though.

tchrist

Should that occur, yes.

Compare anti-Semitism with Islamophobia.

Cerberus

I think that can be considered a phobia.

People are against Muslims are usually that because they are afraid.

tchrist

Homophobes do not fear homosexual activity.

They just hate gay people.

Irrationally, I grant you, but it's hate not fear.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah that one is a bit more of a stretch.

So I think misomophilia is better.

tchrist

20:56

mi sol la :)

While misogyny is well established, only the learnèd can fully stem it.

Cerberus

21:09

Misandry?

Misanthropy?

tchrist

Yes.

user image

alphabet

@M.A.R. Confusingly, in parts of the South people use the word "coke" generically to refer to all kinds of soda

tchrist

Confusingly, in parts of the East people use the word "soda" generically to refer to all kinds of pop.

alphabet

@tchrist My problem is more that phobic disorder is a specific medical condition. "Homophobia" is indeed a misnomer (originally it referred to men with a sort of extreme revulsion for showing any intimacy towards other men, but got expanded to any sort of bigotry).

Unfortunately a better term has not arisen; "heterosexism" hasn't caught on.

@tchrist We also call em "soft drinks."

tchrist

Like root beer.

Laurel

21:16

@tchrist Somewhere in the English speaking world they split the difference and call it "soda pop"

tchrist

@Laurel It's the same as pop, just longer. It's used interchangeably. You'll see either one on the signage for roadside stores all over the heartland.

Specifically, I've seen soda pop instead of jost pop in both Colorado and Wisconsin. It somehow feels both more old fashioned and more formal at the same time.

alphabet

Strictly speaking, a "soft drink" is anything nonalcoholic.

So milk counts.

tchrist

I would but the countesses won't let me.

alphabet

The queen of beverages.

Cerberus

@alphabet Oh, really, in what language?

alphabet

21:19

@Cerberus Which part of my message are you asking about?

tchrist

Non-fizzy bevs lack pop.

Pop comes from a can; soda comes from a fountain, usually with a soda jerk in attendance.

alphabet

Gonna get one of those sodastream things so I can make carbonated milk

tchrist

A soda you make on the fly.

I grew up in a town with an old-fashioned soda fountain, except it wasn't old fashioned at the time. These still exist.

alphabet

Indeed. I hear they're still big in Utah as an alcohol substitute.

Cerberus

@alphabet You talked about the original meaning.

Laurel

21:23

I ended up with a soda stream, somehow

I use it as an egg replacement :3

tchrist

Dairy bars and diners often still have soda fountains.

The lunch kind more than the supper kind.

alphabet

@Cerberus This article covers it: herek.net/blog/…

> For instance, a great many men are withheld from embracing each other or kissing each other, or longing for each other’s company, as openly as women do. [...] Ramifications of this phobic fear extend even to parent-child relationships.

> Millions of fathers feel that it would not befit them to kiss their sons affectionately or embrace them [...] It is expected that men, even lifetime friends, will not sit as close together on a couch while talking earnestly as women may; they will not look into each other’s faces as steadily or as fondly.

Cerberus

This is true.

alphabet

From the person who coined the term originally

Cerberus

Did he, though?

alphabet

21:28

Indeed. In 1971

Cerberus

I don't mean to be rude, but I have seen American media assert that some American invented x a million times, when in fact it was merely the first time it was used in his country.

alphabet

He claims to have deliberately coined the term; I'm not aware of evidence to the contrary.

This is definitely a real phenomenon among men, but it isn't the same as the sort of prejudice now described by the term "homophobia."

Cerberus

I can't really find any alternative origins.

@alphabet Yeah, it is now often used inappropriately.

Laurel

This is what my poor person's OED says about the origin:

user image

So it's one of those dates

Cerberus

21:44

Hmm.

Right, let me consult the OED.

user image

It being a Latin word of Greek origin, I was thinking some other language might have used it earlier.

user image

These two senses were obviously not coined independently.

user image

Mitch

@Cerberus that was first said by someone Dutch, despite being said many times before by everybody else.

Only an American would say something as absurd as that

@Laurel carbonated eggs?

Laurel

21:59

@Mitch Instead of baking with eggs, I've been using fizzy water

@Cerberus What version is that

Cerberus

@Laurel I think the 2nd edition.

I use it through Golden Dictionary.

Laurel

For free or what

Cerberus

Yeah, I think Vitaly once sent me a lot of dictionary files to use with Golden Dictionary.

I don't remember exactly.

Laurel

22:30

I've been wondering if I could get Oxford itself to give me a free OED, like pull out my moderator card or something

I used to have access but that was because I was paying out the ass for college lol

alphabet

@Cerberus From the article I posted earlier:

> Drawing from their conversations with Weinberg, Nichols and Clarke wrote about homophobia in their May 23, 1969 column, to which Goldstein assigned the headline “He-Man Horse Shit.” They used homophobia to refer to heterosexuals’ fears that others might believe they are homosexual.

> Such fear, they wrote, limited men’s experiences by declaring off limits such “sissified” things as poetry, art, movement, and touching. Although the Screw column appears to have been the first time homophobia appeared in print, Nichols always credited Weinberg with originating the term.

So it did originate with Weinberg, as I mentioned above.

alphabet

22:55

@Laurel Too bad you can't pirate it. I've been able to get my hands on an illegal copy of Geoff Lindsey's Beyond RP.

Laurel

I need to petition my alumni association or something to get me access again

I kinda want the search

alphabet

Normally I just read whatever books I can fish out of the dumpster.

Laurel

@alphabet Trash panda lol

alphabet

23:11

@Laurel That's an offensive stereotype. The proper word is nonhuman sanitation worker.

Raccoons & milk diet & huddleston & pullum

MetaEd

@tchrist when did you have your last green river phosphate.

I am actually at a candy store with a root beer bar at this very minute.

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