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Bane
Bane
8:00 PM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, that's not it. Imagine not having the verb "have", and simply not being able to say certain things.
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That's probably a higher order impossibility. An Aleph-One in the bedroom.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
+1 Meta
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane You would just use some other verb to double as "have".
 
Bane
Bane
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 What if it had no pronouns except "me"? I think that you would change the language by doing that.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane pronouns are not required in a language.
 
Bane
Bane
8:03 PM
What if it had no tenses except present?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane Like Chinese?
 
Bane
Bane
For example, what if they could only reconstruct several cases and only the present tense, and declared that to be PIE?
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
@Mr. Shiny yes but at the end of this process you have at least a word that you cannot explain with other words.
 
Bane
Bane
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If Chinese is anything like Japanese, then you could rely on context. But then that wouldn't be a problem...
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
There is no language that is self consistent
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
8:05 PM
@Bane So, what if they only know part of the language and not the whole language? Then you cannot express certain ideas the way they would have been expressed at the time.
@Bane Well, for example, in Chinese you can use several words to express futurity or pastness but there aren't tenses per se.
@Carlo_R. You can always explain words with other words.
 
Bane
Bane
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, that's what I meant by "Turing-complete". In the current state of PIE, if anyone knows it, are there concepts your simply cannot express, that you, for example, can express in English?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane So what you mean by "turing complete" is "completely reconstructed"? Because as I said before, there are lots of languages that make certain kinds of ideas hard to express and others easier.
 
Bane
Bane
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Is it possible that some ideas/concepts simply cannot be completely, correctly and consistently expressed in a language?
 
KitFox
KitFox
By the way @Bane, I'm pretty sure your question is a duplicate of this one:
11
Q: "Which" vs. "what" — what's the difference and when should you use one or the other?

Korneel BoumanMost of the time one or the other feels better, but every so often, "which" vs. "what" trips me up. So, what's the exact difference and when should you use one or the other?

differences questions determiners
 
Bane
Bane
Hm, yes, that's true. I simply forgot to check, sorry.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
8:10 PM
@Bane I don't know. In a living language, I'd say no. When a new idea comes up that is difficult to describe, new words are coined for it. Or old words are given new meanings or new shades of meaning.
It's probably pretty hard to write documentation for the iPhone SDK in PIE, for example.
 
Bane
Bane
Yeah, but I was referring to grammatical constructs, not words. I still haven't thought all this out yet, for example, I'm not sure I'd consider a language in which you cannot directly say "tomorrow I will eat a zebra" "Turing-complete". If you say "tomorrow I eat a zebra", you are fully relying on context, not the grammar, to carry the information about the tense.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 How do you ask WH questions?
 
Bane
Bane
Hmm, English isn't a good example for this...
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Bane except that the word "tomorrow" effectively doubles as a tense marker.
We don't need tense.
if we have other ways of expressing when something happened or will happen.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@DavidWallace oh, because "who", "what", etc, are pronouns in questions? Okay, I suppose they are important.
But necessary? I'm not sure.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
8:16 PM
If you didn't have them, they'd develop.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane English is not a good example because "will" is not a tense.
 
Bane
Bane
Yeah, I realized that only after I posted the message...
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
I mean, you could perhaps say "Person is outside the house - identify person" instead of "Who is outside the house".
But if you say that enough times, "person" will become a pronoun.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@DavidWallace from a certain point of view, yes.
 
Bane
Bane
Hey, @DavidWallace, how would you say "Person is outside the house" in the past tense, without an actual past tense, and without specifying an actual point in time?
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
8:18 PM
"Person is outside the house when I look; I not look now".
I don't know.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane Well, you need either a past tense or a time marker of some sort. Some kind of indicator.
Anyway, @bane, you should maybe head over to the linguistics.stackexchange.com site and see what they have to say about PIE and how completely it is known. However, I disagree with your overloading of "turing completeness" to refer to languages that are only partially known.
 
Bane
Bane
Yeah, that's a very sloppy use of that term, I'll stop. It was just at the top of my head...
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Yeah, I don't like the use of "Turing complete" in this way either. The analogy seems a bit forced.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
lots of languages get by without an explicit tense distinction
often by being aspect-oriented rather than tense-oriented
 
Bane
Bane
@JSBձոգչ Which ones? I only know that Japanes has two tenses: past and "not past", and now I've learned of Chinese, that apparently doesn't have tenses.
>aspect-oriented rather than tense-oriented
Would you care to elaborate?
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm, will do, I didn't know there was a linguistics site.
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
8:22 PM
This has nothing to with Turing completeness.
I banish the Turing.
AÍ! A TURING HAS COME!
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Sorry, I'm going back several questions, but I think if there existed a language that was not rich enough to express all the things its speakers wanted to express, it would gradually grow in expressiveness until it WAS rich enough.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@MετάEd You just like typing that accented I character
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hëll yès I dô.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
I also think that the fact that we don't know how to express everything in PIE doesn't imply that speakers of PIE didn't know how to.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane Also you can read wikipedia about it
Proto-Indo-European language
The Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) is the reconstructed common ancestor of the Indo-European languages, spoken by the Proto-Indo-Europeans. The existence of such a language has been accepted by linguists for over a century, and reconstruction is advanced and detailed. Scholars estimate that PIE may have been spoken as a single language (before divergence began) around 3700 BC, though estimates by different authorities can vary by more than a millennium. The most popular hypothesis for the origin and spread of the language is the Kurgan hypothesis, which postulates an origin in the P...
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
8:23 PM
Here's something that I have difficulty expressing in English.
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@DavidWallace Actually I think you expressed that quite well.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
@Bane sure...
just a moment
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
What adjective can I use to qualify hair that is red? Where by "red" I mean the colour of a fire engine. If I say "red hair", that means some kind of gingery brown colour.
Tweeners!
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
@David I agree
with you.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@DavidWallace That's because English didn't used to have the word "orange" and so some orange-coloured things, like red hair, are called "red".
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
8:26 PM
@Bane i can't find a good reference right now, and google fails me. anyway, there are languages where the primary grammaticalized distinction is between "complete" and "incomplete", or between telic and atelic verbs
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
And so you have to qualify hair colour: Her hair was fire-engine red.
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@DavidWallace Since historically "red" was the word for that color of hair, you will have to qualify. "Fire engine red" or "f——k me red" for example.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
in these language "tense" is only marked optionally, and usually takes the form of an adverb
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
But what if I can't think of an object that's the same colour? So it's not EXACTLY the colour of a fire engine, but some nearby shade.
 
Bane
Bane
@JSBձոգչ "complete" and "incomplete"? You're talking about tenses?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
8:28 PM
@DavidWallace You'll need to specify a precise make and model of a fire-engine that DOES use that shade.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
@Bane no, i'm talking about aspect. do you know spanish or italian?
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@DavidWallace You can always use PANTONE. Or CMYK. Or RGB. :-p
 
Bane
Bane
Yep, I got it. Is Latin an example of a such language? For example, perfect is a complete past tense, and imperfect is incomplete?
@JSBձոգչ Sorry, I don't.
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 He can use the dropper tool.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
@Bane that's the right idea. Latin (and the Romance languages) generally indicate tense and aspect, but there are languages that indicate aspect but not tense
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
8:30 PM
@John Lawler Please John, come here; we need you.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
My darling, I love that 2003 Dennis Hydraulic Platform colour you've dyed your hair.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
so while Latin has past imperfect and past perfect, some languages just have "perfect" and "imperfect", without any particular tense marking
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@MετάEd And #FF2304 really brings out your eyes.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
so "perfect" could mean either "completed in the past" or "completed in the future" depending on context
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
(Considers the difference between "first future" and "future complete" in some Slavic languages).
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
8:32 PM
Oh! Or you could use a pantone colour. "Her hair was PANTONE Red 032 C"
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
the slavic languages in general are aspect-dominant, with only a sprinkling of tense to go with it
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
dammit, while I was getting a link @MετάEd jinxed me
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@JSBձոգչ Do you think that comment has some tense-dominant bias to it?
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I've got your color right here.
 
Bane
Bane
@JSBձոգչ Huh, are you sure about that? Because there's a hell of a lot tenses in Croatian... Perfect, imperfect, aorist, first future, second future...
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
8:33 PM
@DavidWallace which comment?
 
Bane
Bane
And lets not forget plusquamperfect...
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
I mean, I think that Slavic languages have a mix of aspect and tense; and the two complement each other well. It seems like you use both together. But as a speaker of a tense-dominant language, it's the aspects that stick out for me. If I were a speaker of a truly aspect-dominant language, I might feel that Slavic languages were tense-dominant (although obviously less so than English).
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
linguists generally codify slavic languages as aspect-dominant, so it's not just me.
anyway, most languages have some indication of both tense and aspect
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@Bane Or quasihemidemisemiquaver.
Or antepenultimate.
 
Bane
Bane
@MετάEd Oh god the horror, what is that?
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
8:37 PM
@Bane it's a sorta-1/8th quaver.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@JSBձոգչ I don't mean to imply it's just you. What about linguists whose first language is not a strongly tense-dominant one though?
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@Bane What part of ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn don't you understand?
10
 
KitFox
KitFox
No Lovecraft in chat.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Reg do you have an opinion?
(since you're here and Slavic)
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
@KitFox Shouldn't that be "There is no Lovecraft in this chat"?
Maybe it's "are"?
 
Bane
Bane
8:38 PM
shouldn't be?
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
Surely the tunnel of love has more than one Lovecraft.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@MετάEd It should be "No X in this chat" where X is, in this case, Lovecraft.
2
 
Bane
Bane
mustn't*
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
My Lovecraft is full of eels.
 
KitFox
KitFox
<—playing Lego Clone Wars, not paying attention
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
8:39 PM
If I said you had a Turing-incomplete natural language, would you hold it against me?
2
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
No, but I might sell it to you.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
@DavidWallace I always have an opinion, whether or not I'm here or anything else.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Would you like to come back to my place, *rebhājō, *rebhājō
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
Except it's a lot to catch up, so my opinion right now is that I'm lazy.
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@DavidWallace I vill not buy this David Wallace, it is scratched.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
8:42 PM
@RegDwighт Do first-language-Slavic speakers consider Slavic languages to be more strongly aspect-oriented than tense-oriented?
 
Bane
Bane
Anyway, it has been nice chatting to you all, but I've got work to do, so bye!
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
Can't speak for others, but I'd say that it's exactly 50/50 in Russian.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Bye
 
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
Mr. Shiny and New 安宇
@Bane bye. Good luck with Latin class.
I too must be heading off.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@RegDwighт That is my feeling about Bosnian. Possibly not 50/50 - we rely more on tense than aspect.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
8:44 PM
Obviously aspects are very important if your language has two forms of each verb.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Bye Mr
 
Bane
Bane
@DavidWallace "we"? You're Bosnian?
 
Jez
Jez
well, red dwarf was quite good
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@RegDwighт Tenses seem more important to me.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
But I wouldn't want to miss the tenses, either.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
8:44 PM
@Bane I speak Bosnian. I am not Bosnian.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
I could not life without tenses
 
Bane
Bane
Oh, that's great, we can understand each other on a non-English language :) Also, just one more thing before I go: why do you know Bosnian, if I may ask?
 
Jez
Jez
@Carlo_R. or verbs?
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
I tense without main verbs.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
@Jaz Hmmm
 
Mitch
Mitch
8:46 PM
@Bane If you're looking for complexity, Latin has it in a big list of tense/aspect/mood/action combinations, plus 4 sets of forms (conjugations) for each, plus a good number of irregular verbs (don't fit any pattern, for one verb you just have to memorize every form. Then there are nouns, 5 declensions, 5 cases (sometimes 6).
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Bane Moja zena je Sarajevka.
 
Mitch
Mitch
So if it is complexity you care about, Latin is pretty close to Slavic.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
@DavidWallace in Russian, you can only have what Barrie England would consider a true future tense in perfective aspect. In imperfective, it's composé.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Ours is composé both ways.
 
Bane
Bane
@Mitch I know, I'm forced to learn it. I'm just trying to find some motivation.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
8:47 PM
That bears repeating. Which tenses you have depends on the aspect. That's how much they are intertwined.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Bane, you seem to me a native of English language. I will believe you are bosnian only after having see your passport
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
Which is why I say 50/50.
 
Bane
Bane
@Carlo_R. I'm not Bosnian, I'm Croatian. Why don't you believe me? Do you want me to say a few sentences on my native language so @DavidWallace can confirm? ;)
(Btw Bosninan, Serbian and Croatian are pretty much the same.)
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Bane also, there is very little literature on 'learning' PIE or really anything about PIE, but you can find all sorts of vocabulary and grammar and original texts for Latin, even though nobody speaks it out loud. Actually that's not exactly true. I have heard that Latin is sometimes used as a lingua franca at the Vatican.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
No, you could know Bosnian as second language, but I'm sure you are native of English
 
Bane
Bane
8:51 PM
@Carlo_R. But why? I already said that I'm from Croatia, why don't you believe me?
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Bane Some can be motivated by practicality. No one speaks it but academic English (as well as academic French/Spanish/Italian) is mostly Latin derivatives. Learning Latin will increase your English vocabulary, especially in medicine and law, tremendously.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Your English is perfect.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Carlo_R - Bane made a minor grammatical error two English remarks ago. Not one that a native speaker would make. I am certain he/she is not a native English speaker.
 
Bane
Bane
@Carlo_R. I highly doubt it...
(Also, please do point out any mistakes I make, so I can correct myself. Thanks.)
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
Mkay, who's starring all that?
 
Mitch
Mitch
8:52 PM
Not I said the cat.
 
Bane
Bane
I am, well, some of it...
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
@David if you say that, I believe.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
@RegDwighт note how this is the opposite of Latin, in which your tense determines which aspects you have available
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
@JSBձոգչ I don't know the first thing about Latin, so I have trouble noting.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Bane You should say "in my native language", not "on my native language". Not a big deal. But "na" in Croatian doesn't always correspond to "on" in English.
 
Mitch
Mitch
8:53 PM
@Carlo_R. " on my native language " -> "in my native language"
jinx
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
@Reg well, i'll note it for you
 
Mitch
Mitch
donuts for everyone!
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
this is part of why we say that the slavic languages are aspect-dominant while Latin is tense dominant
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@JSBձոգչ How is that the opposite?
 
Bane
Bane
@DavidWallace Thanks, I always get that wrong...
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
8:53 PM
There are valid combinations of tense and aspect; and invalid ones.
 
Mahnax
Mahnax
Hi!
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
@Bane the stars only make sense as long as the messages are still on the wall on the right hand side. Starring a message pushes previously starred messages off of it, thus making it rather pointless to have starred them in the first place.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@DavidWallace what are some invalid ones?
 
Bane
Bane
If I'm not mistaking, in both Latin and some Slavic languages, the tense determines the aspect.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Mitch I couldn't use present tense with perfective aspect in the main clause of a sentence.
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
8:55 PM
and @Reg just said that in Russian the aspect controls the tense
 
Mitch
Mitch
@DavidWallace "I am done"?
 
Bane
Bane
@JSBձոգչ I'd say that they're tied together. But take imperfect in Latin, it defines its aspect, correct?
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Mitch Ugh! What does that even mean?
 
Bane
Bane
@RegDwighт Sorry, I didn't know that.
 
Mitch
Mitch
I just finished eating.
I mean "I just finished eating"
 
JSBձոգչ
JSBձոգչ
8:56 PM
@Bane correct. but it's the only simple tense that really specifies aspect
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
@Bane No prob. I'm just saying you only have 30 stars a day for a reason. Use them sparingly.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Mitch That's a past tense, modified by an adverb to give it an almost-present meaning.
 
Mitch
Mitch
"am" is past tense and "done" is an adverb?
 
Bane
Bane
@RegDwighт Will do.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
No, I mean "I just finished eating". "Finished" is past tense.
 
Mitch
Mitch
8:57 PM
@Bane also, you can uncheck things if it isn't too long since you checked them.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Oh, you mean, "I am done" means "I just finished eating"? Interesting!
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
How come we have two questions about the same sentence? wonders
 
Mitch
Mitch
@DavidWallace sure, but my given sentence that I care about is "I am done". "I just finished" is just to tell you closely what it means.
@DavidWallace yes.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
OK, if I HAD to translate "I am done" into Bosnian, I would probably say "Završio sam", which is past tense.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
Oh I see. One is a result of the comments on the other.
 
Mitch
Mitch
8:59 PM
@RegDwighт you mean on some Q&A site? how would we even know about that? Strange.
 
RegDwighт
RegDwighт
@Mitch you should ask that, you know, on a Q&A site.
 
Bane
Bane
@DavidWallace Maybe "Gotov sam" would be more specific? That isn't the past tense, but present.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
I would also translate "I finished" as "Završio sam" though.
 
Mitch
Mitch
@DavidWallace also, I am talking about the English. You may have been claiming no present perfect in Croatian.
@RegDwighт I will!
 
Bane
Bane
@DavidWallace I agree on that.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
9:01 PM
When I said "there are valid combinations of tense and aspect; and invalid ones" I meant in Slavic languages. Not English.
 
Mitch
Mitch
Or maybe I'll ask where to pick up the donuts instead. "May donuts be not yet begun to finish being eaten"
@DavidWallace Oh. Never mind.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Bane Yes, it would depend on context. I'm not really sure what "I am done" means. It's not an expression that I use.
 
Bane
Bane
@DavidWallace After finishing a test, for example, you could say "I am done", couldn't you?
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
I can imagine contexts in which "I am done" would be best translated as "gotov sam", and others in which it would be best translated as "završio sam".
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
@Mitch i dont know what you mean with lf but afaik latin is official vatican language
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
9:02 PM
@Bane I would say "I've finished". But that's just me.
 
Bane
Bane
Yeah, changing the tense wouldn't change the meaning there, I think. And I agree that saying "I've finished" is probably more correct, that's why I put "could" in there.
Anyway, now I really need to go. This chatroom is really great, I'll probably come back!
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Bye
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Vidimo se.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Se vedemo
 
Mitch
Mitch
@Carlo_R. I was saying less than you. I suspected that is true, but you know more than I do about the Vatican.
@Bane "I have finished" is more formal than "I am done"
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
9:06 PM
"I am done" seems almost like an Americanism to me.
Like "off of".
 
Mitch
Mitch
Ah...well, there it is.
Since those don't sound like anything to me, that must be what I am.
well...not an Americanism. That would be wrong.
how about 'spot on'? what kind of person says that?
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
"I am done" literally translated in Italian means "Io sono fatto", which one say after drugs assumption.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
Umm, I might say "spot on".
There used to be a New Zealand child's TV programme called "Spot On".
 
Mitch
Mitch
Was it Language Log (Geoff Pullum) who claimed that 'spot on' was a Bertie-Woosterism? I thought it was pretty common and um middle class if that's what you call it)
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Umm, "Spot On" in Italy is a programme for adult!
 
Mitch
Mitch
9:09 PM
That doesn't sound good..or rather maybe too good.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
It's probably not the same programme.
 
Mitch
Mitch
probably not. kept the kids attention though.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Yes, we are at the antipode of NZ, so it is normal.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Carlo_R. Have you moved to Spain?
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Spain, no I'm not precise.
There is only a little error
In sayng that Italy is at the antipode of NZ.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
9:12 PM
Hey, if you can consider New Zealand and Australia to be the same place, you can do likewise with Italy and Spain.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Incidentally Spain and Italy are like they are the same
Spain and France, no
Italy and France, no
Germany and Italy, absolutely no
But Spain and Italy are almost the same.
Same culture, same religion, similar language, ...
 
MετάEd
MετάEd
"I am done" is a bedroom term and usually you only hear it if you found the "spot on".
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Meta, haha ...
You are more like of it seems
Hey, this bane guy is an interesting user!
It seems his age is 16, but I do not believe it.
I think he is at least 23
He has some intersting crackpot theries
We will see. In my language we see "chi vivra', vedra'"
Literally "who will life, will see"
@David is it true that in NZ, contrary to what happen in Italy (and Spain), the cars go on the left of the road?
 
tchrist
tchrist
live
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Hello
 
tchrist
tchrist
9:25 PM
Yes, but they call it right.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
Tchrist, you have lost bane. Thank you.
Tchrist, please see the interesting backlog.
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
@Carlo_R. Yes.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
:)
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
:)
@tchrist bane is a new intersting user. We have tolk about "turing completeness" applied to language.
I feel you absence in that discussion
@David In Italy the most diffused car is FIAT, then Volkswagen. What is the situation in NZ. Do you have a lot of Japanese cars?
Honda, Toyota etc
 
David Wallace
David Wallace
9:31 PM
@Carlo_R. Yes. The huge majority of cars are Japanese. Mine is a Honda.
 
Carlo_R.
Carlo_R.
:)
We has become a new phenomenon of Chinese car. Todey they have 3% of the market. Is this pheonomenon in NZ too?
Obviosuly 3% in Italy, I mean.
Now the percentage has become 4%!
And probably if you do not answer early the percentage will growth both in Italy and in NZ.
 
 
2 hours later…
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
11:23 PM
@tchrist I used to listen to that too. It was always at bedtime and half the time I fell asleep before the end. Urgh!
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
11:47 PM
Hello.
Has my customer disappeared? Aww...
If you want to study European culture (which includes North and South-American culture), Latin has been the most important language to learn for the past two thousand+ years.
 
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
Who's your customer?
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Some guy complaining about his Latin class.
So Latin is very important in history, culture, literature, etc.
That is the most important aspect.
Then there are other, minor considerations.
 
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
It really takes me all my free time to catch up by reading the transcript. I hadn't gotten that far.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Latin is a great exercise for the mind.
It can help you a great deal in understanding many modern languages.
 
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
You won't be surprised to know that I don't know Latin.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
11:51 PM
Even Germanic languages often have lots of difficult-to-learn concepts and words based on Latin.
@SpareOom It's OK. I was just replying to that guy.
 
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
But I did take a class in college "Greek and Latin Roots of English Words"
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
Now I'm done.
@SpareOom That's a start.
 
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
ok. Sorry I interrupted.
You should have @ed the guy so he sees your reply.
@Cerberus But it was so long ago, and I've probably forgotten most of it.
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
@SpareOom Too lazy to look up his name.
@SpareOom But you probably subconsciously relearned many roots.
Like e-.
What do you think the prefix e- could mean?
 
Spare Oom
Spare Oom
@Hauser, maybe ^
 
Cerberus
Cerberus
11:55 PM
It doesn't mean "@Hauser, maybe ^", no.
 
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