English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Vikas

17:00

@CowperKettle When I remember Lenin, it reminds me of history. I was in 8th standard in school and exams were considered difficult for that standard. They were organised by state board of school education rather than school itself.

Robusto

@Vikas Are dalits a caste or of no caste?

Vikas

@Robusto I don't know much about it. But I think it's a category or class of people.

I don't think it's actually called a caste.

Robusto

I thought dalits were the untouchables.

Vikas

googles

@Robusto Something like that.

Robusto

Or some other racist bushwah.

Vikas

17:02

@Robusto Dalit (from Sanskrit: दलित, romanized: dalita meaning "broken/scattered"), also previously known as untouchable, is a name for people belonging to the lowest stratum of the castes in India.[1

So I guess it is a group of some castes.

That some people consider "low".

Or untouchables.

I remember my mother scolded me when I ate at some neighbor's home when I was maybe 5 years old LOL

CowperKettle

Can one pretend to be of a different caste? Change the surname?

Vikas

If I remind that to my mom now, maybe she would feel embarrassed. So I don't remind her.

@CowperKettle I think so.

CowperKettle

‘I’m Dalit but identify as a Brahmin’ — Dalit comedians in India

Robusto

Are the professions restricted to certain castes? Like what are doctors and other professionals?

Vikas

@Robusto I think that was the old tradition, not so common now.

If that were still prevalent, I would be doing this:

Kumhar

Kumhar is a caste or community in India, Nepal and Pakistan. Kumhar have historically been associated with art of pottery. == Etymology == The Kumhars derive their name from the Sanskrit word Kumbhakar meaning earthen-pot maker. Dravidian languages conform to the same meaning of the term Kumbhakar. The term Bhande, used to designate the Kumhar caste, also means pot. The potters of Amritsar are called Kulal or Kalal, the term used in Yajurveda to denote the potter class. == Mythological origin == A section of Hindu Kumhars honorifically call themselves Prajapati after Vedic Prajapati, the Lord...

parz

17:12

Pottery!

Yes, I am back from my lunch break, with a new knowledge of Ohio.

Vikas

I think Internet and social media will help improve caste related problems much quicker.

parz

Yeah. Contact with places without it is probably going to be the best thing that happened to Dalits in a long while.

Robusto

@Vikas Japan still has an "untouchable" caste. The ones who butcher cattle for wagyu and do other low types of work. They are the burakumin (部落民). Supposedly that was abolished in the Meiji Restoration, but I guess it didn't take.

Vikas

@Robusto Oh we also have this caste.

parz

@Robusto Japan had a caste system? Then again, I suppose I skipped Japan to focus on European history…

Robusto

17:17

@parz It certainly did. And does to some extent even today.

parz

I suppose once a caste system is in place, it can’t ever go away…

CowperKettle

Burakumin

Burakumin (部落民, "hamlet/village people", "those who live in hamlets/villages") is a name for a low-status social group in Japan. It is a term for ethnic Japanese people with occupations considered as being associated with kegare (穢れ, "defilement"), such as executioners, undertakers, slaughterhouse workers, butchers, or tanners. During Japan's feudal era, Burakumin acquired a hereditary status of untouchability, and became an unofficial caste of the Tokugawa class system during the Edo period. Burakumin were victims of severe discrimination and ostracism in Japanese society, and lived as outcasts...

parz

@Cowp are you just always on Wikipedia?

CowperKettle

No.

parz

It definitely feels like it…

Vikas

17:20

Wikipedia gives reliable definition in less time.

Mitch

@Robusto I'm hearing a lot of that. It's probably something that should happen for the flu too, if living conditions allow for it. (I'm hearing about a lot of student situations where everybody in a multiperson apartment gets it)

parz

@Mitch my apartment is having a bad bout of it after someone new moved in. It feels like everywhere is getting it.

Robusto

@Mitch I'm puzzled why I haven't gotten it. Surely some of the virus must have reached me by now.

parz

Crosswordle 318 (en) 4/∞
⬜🟨⬜⬜ 🟩🟨🟨⬜
⬜⬜🟩🟩 🟩⬜⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟩🟩⬜🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩 🟩🟩🟩🟩
https://crosswordle.serializer.ca/

CowperKettle

@Robusto Maybe you're untouchable to the viruses

Vikas

17:26

@Robusto People here gave this as justification for not caring about pandemic. They would say we were three people in a group and two of them got covid and I didn't. So we don't trust doctors and testing. It's all fake.

parz

Maybe the virii love you?

Robusto

@CowperKettle I would settle for that.

Mitch

@Vikas The fact that you had to look that up makes it seem like the word 'dalit' is somewhat new to you. To give you perspective, in the US and UK, they use the term 'untouchables' and then to sound more reliable, 'dalit' (which is not a native English word) which sounds like it is an Indian word. So US/UK people think 'dalit' is something that everyone in India knows about.

Robusto

@Vikas I take all precautions. But I don't have any explanations, or even any theories, about the coronavirus anymore.

Covid is like the weather. Everybody talks about it but nobody does anything about it.

@Mitch So ... Kevin Costner was a dalit?

Vikas

@Mitch I've heard it a lot I just wasn't sure about exact definition.

parz

17:29

@Mitch I just used “Dalit” because I didn’t know if “untouchables” was offensive.

Mitch

@Vikas What do you call the lowest caste? at the top is Brahmin (scholars), then warriors, then uh shopkeepers, then farmers, and then below that the untouchables, right? (that's the broad overview you get in US/UK)

Robusto

Wordle 543 5/6

🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨
🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
⬜🟨🟨⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Mitch

@Robusto How does she feel?

Robusto

@Mitch She feels fine, but she started coughing last night.

parz

@Robusto is it just a cough and the attendant headaches, or possibly something else?

Robusto

17:34

She felt stomach distress at first, then got really tired. I measured her temp at 100.6. She went to bed at 4:00 pm and slept till six the next morning, whereupon she said she felt fine. The cough developed the following evening. But she says she still doesn't feel bad.

She hasn't had a temp since Sunday evening.

Cerberus

Good.

Has she been sick with Corona before?

Robusto

No.

Mitch

What's the covid ameliorization medication called?

Robusto

And we are both quad-vaxxed and double-boosted.

Mitch

Paxil?

Robusto

17:39

Paxlovid.

Mitch

Paxlovid?

Robusto

jinx

Mitch

Do they have that available there?

Cerberus

Good, you should be safe enough.

Robusto

@Mitch She has a prescription in which I will pick up as soon as it's ready.

Cerberus

17:40

Unless you are in some grave risk group.

Robusto

Well, we're above the age threshold. But that's about it.

Mitch

@Robusto Yeah even if a mild case good to have that in your back pocket

Robusto

There are no contributing factors like diabetes, obesity, or immune issues.

Mitch

not out of pocket

@Robusto right after the invasion of Ukraine last year we bought some iodine pills.

really there's not going to be a need for them.

But

you never know

Robusto

Yes.

Mitch

17:43

Oh dang I gotta set up a 'go bag'

first aid kit, change of clothes, a lighter, some candy bars

Robusto

Don't forget silk stockings to give the ladies.

Mitch

because you never know if you'll get a knock on the door late at night

@Robusto hey man I got my ways

... some cash (dollars, euros, yuan)

... passports for two different countries from your own

Robusto

Don't forget C-rations. Those can be used as currency.

Mitch

... and a copy of 'A Hundred Years of Solitude'

Everybody seems to love that book

It sounds like it's long and boring though. I mean it's right there in the title.

parz

#Cerebrle #160
🟩 Sequence Memory: 14
https://www.cerebrle.io

Mitch

17:49

@Robusto MRE's are great... they have these tiny bottles of Tabasco sauce... -Those- you can use as a separate currency. Chef in a bottle.

@parz Dude. Are trying to blow @Robusto's mind? He already has a full time job doing those other ones!

parz

I will destroy @Robusto’s soul…

If Wordle doesn’t do it first with Bouvet Island.

worldle

Mitch

Bouvet Island???

Is that what that was?

parz

Maybe…

hehhehehehehhe

Mitch

no spoilers!

parz

gist.github.com/maxspero/0a2f536b9561d829caf6bd994a34193d

Robusto

17:53

@parz You might if I had one.

parz

ok, i see…

Robusto

But you won't beat my EL&U rep score.

parz

THEN I’LL DESTROY @COWP’S

HAHHAHAHAHHHAHAHA evil laugh noises

Robusto

Have at it.

Cerberus

@Robusto Yeah that hardly counts any more, what with the current variants, I believe.

parz

17:55

oh no cerberus is here hide the brain destroying machine!!!

Mitch

#Cerebrle #160
🟩 Sequence Memory: 2
https://www.cerebrle.io

parz

@Mitch so good

Robusto

@parz And nobody will beat my zero-to-legendary time.

Jul 15, 2011 at 22:20, by Robusto

Off to dinner momentarily, but just popped in to say ...
I
AM
LEGEND

parz

I

AM

HIM

Robusto

But I have put away such childish things.

parz

17:56

Now, I have, as well.

We must decide for sure.

Robusto

The trouble with winning is you have to keep doing it. Much easier to leave it to those who hunger for it.

parz

I hunger for Mike and Ike’s!

Robusto

I must go and get my wife's scrip. Ciao for now.

parz

Ciao.

Mitch

@Robusto to every thing there is a season

parz

17:58

For growing, and for reaping.

For answering questions, and for checkmarking them.

Mitch

@parz OK that's awful... how do you pronounce it? sair uh berl?

oh... suh ree brul

parz

@Mitch what?

Mitch

That's not very cerebral of them

parz

Cerebrle?

Suhr ee bruhl

Mitch

brl sounds out like berl, not brul

That's the way it is, I'm just the messenger

no cap

parz

18:01

it’s dotted schwa

for merriam webster dictionary

yes that is how i write prons now

CowperKettle

18:27

How to Pronounce Krakow? (CORRECTLY) Polish Vs English Pronunciation Guide

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Turns out the ow ending in Polish is pronounced as uv, not ov

parz

Crackoff, right?

Vikas

@Mitch Untouchables are separate topic I think. I don't think we consider farmers as low caste. Same with warriors. It might be true in ancient times. People would have immense respect for farmers and warriors.

farmers and warrirors are not caste I think. It might have been in past.

There was a caste who would join wars.

That was old system and there were mainly 3-4 caste systems.

How To Get Bullet Proof Car (Kuruma) in GTA 5 Online (2021)

►

This kid struggles to pronounce Kuruma.

CowperKettle

@parz Krakoov

Vikas

Anyone else also struggles?

CowperKettle

18:48

Kuruma seems easy to pronounce

In Russian, kurumy or kurumnik is the word for stone run.

A stone run, or stone river, is a kind of downsloping mountain alley filled with stones as with a river's stream.

The word kurumy is Turkic, but easily pronounced by Russians.

Vikas

19:02

There's a domain of websites ending with page.link. And every day hundreds of users share war related stuff and rumors on this link on Twitter. I checked when were those accounts created. Most are created in 2022 LOL. They are using it for website traffic apparently. I think all of them are bots promoting those links.

CowperKettle

I only take glimpses of the war news once a day. I wish I could restrain myself to once a week.

I'd better write some Wikipedia article than become an amateur war specialist, cause I would not be taking part in any war due to poor health anyway.

Vikas

Verbal clash between Indian ITBP officer and Chinese soldiers at the indo-tibetian border

►

😆

CowperKettle

I was never good at verbal clashes, my brain freezes over.

I wish there was a way to tweak one's brain.

Vikas

He said I have one word to say "go back now"

@CowperKettle We shall have eventually.

CowperKettle

19:18

Gut microbes can boost the motivation to exercise, research finds

Robusto

@CowperKettle There is. It's called meth. It will tweak your brain until, over time, your brain is gone.

In fact, tweaking is a slang term in the US for doing meth, I'm fairly sure.

CowperKettle

I would try out levomilnacipran first ))

@Robusto Ah!

> differences in running performance within a large group of lab mice were largely attributable to the presence of certain gut bacterial species in the higher-performing animals.

> "If we can confirm the presence of a similar pathway in humans, it could offer an effective way to boost people's levels of exercise to improve public health generally

Robusto

Hmm, not quite, apparently: urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tweaking

> Somone tripping on a meth high. They are paranoid about staying up for a week straight seeing shadow people and such.

Close enough for rock 'n' roll, though.

CowperKettle

Here, I sometimes see people who have taken too much "salts".

They walk and move weirdly.

Like zombies a little.

As if their limbs have minds of their own.

водитель и пассажиры под солью

►

A driver and his friend crashed into a truck. Survived, but both visibly "under the salt"

Оператор АЗС Лукойл под кайфом.

►

A cashier girl at the gas station cannot give the change to the customer, she is under salt or some drug.

She just keep saying "yes, right now; please"

The customer says she's under a butyrate drug.

Robusto

That's pretty pathetic.

@CowperKettle File it under the meme "You had one job to do."

Weed vs Salvia contest

►

CowperKettle

19:29

One commenter wrote: "I was just passing this gas station. The guy is still there and demanding his change. Judging by the girl, she might soon do that".

British Army on LSD (Acid) drugs

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Wszystko - Піду втоплюся (Андрій Миколайчук Cover)

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Ukrainian song "I'll go and drown myself".

"Pidu vtoplusia"

Pidu = I will go.

vtoplusia = I will drown myself.

The hero of the song discovers that the river is too dirty with industrial stuff, and goes in search of a cleaner river.

Robusto

The theme reminds me of this song:

Kingston Trio - Man who never returned (M.T.A.)

►

CowperKettle

Yes, I wish I could translate this song into Russian, it's brilliant

Maybe ChatGPT 4.5 will be able.

Robusto

Jun 8, 2021 at 13:51, by Robusto

Take some LSD and we'll talk.

CowperKettle

19:53

I'll never take LSD because I'm not sure that local drug dealers won't mix it with some additives. I'm not M.A.R. to be able to assess the purity of it ))

tchrist

Micrograms don't leave much room for impurities.

If it comes in a horse pill, something is wrong.

jlliagre

20:08

#Worldle #327 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
14th country missed.

Robusto

@jlliagre Yeah, me too. Not immediately obvious.

Mitch

@Vikas I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was repeating the way the caste system is usually presented in the US (namely the English Wikipedia version). with 4 castes brahmin, kshatriya, vaishya, and shudra. What @robusto was asking (and I also) was where do the dalits fit into this system. The wikipedia page makes it look like they are not part of that system at all.

But there is some logic to say that they must fit into a 5th kind of caste (so that one could account for Muslims (who are part of Indian society, yet not Hindus) and foreigners (who are neither Hindu nor part of Indian society at all).

Dalit

Dalit (from Sanskrit: दलित, romanized: dalita meaning "broken/scattered"), also previously known as untouchable, is a name for people belonging to the lowest stratum of the castes in India. Dalits were excluded from the four-fold varna system of Hinduism and were seen as forming a fifth varna, also known by the name of Panchama. Dalits now profess various religious beliefs, including Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Christianity, Islam and various other belief systems. Scheduled Castes is the official term for Dalits as per the Constitution of India. == History == The term Dalit is a self-applied...

Varna (Hinduism)

Varṇa (Sanskrit: वर्ण, romanized: varṇa), in the context of Hinduism, refers to a social class within a hierarchical caste system. The ideology is epitomized in texts like Manusmriti, which describes and ranks four varnas, and prescribes their occupations, requirements and duties, or Dharma. Brahmins: Vedic scholars, priests or teachers. Kshatriyas: Rulers, administrators or warriors. Vaishyas: Agriculturalists, farmers or merchants. Shudras: Artisans, laborers or servants.Communities which belong to one of the four varnas or classes are called savarna Hindus. The Dalits and tribals who do not...

So if you are not very familiar with the 'dalit' term, maybe that means it is some kind of artificial creation of the British (by using a Hindu word for it to fool everyone). I think that is something that @FaheemMitha has mentioned before.

Or maybe it is a real thing, but maybe you use different words for it (like 'Scheduled Caste' or presumably something less Anglo-formal).

But we don't know, that's why we're asking.

jlliagre

20:37

Petroeuros

Divizna

@CowperKettle Yes, ó is (either usually or always, I'm not sure) pronounced as u in Polish.

CowperKettle

@Divizna I got so used to pronouncing Krakov ))

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Probably the dalits (or whatever you want to call them), don't fall inside the "standard" caste system. Perhaps because caste implies status, and they have no status. But I don't really know. An expert on the topic would know.

It would be a reasonable question to ask on Hinduism SE, perhaps.

Divizna

@CowperKettle The Czech variant of the name is Krakov and pronounced exactly like that, so that's what I'm used to too.

Faheem Mitha

Actually, my cook and his family are (or were) Dalits. They did an end run around the system by becoming Buddhists, which is (or was) a popular option for getting out from under the stigma. But that (still) doesn't necessarily stop other Hindus from discriminating against. assuming they are aware of their background.

@Mitch Though I'm also wondering why you care.

hinduism.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/caste-system

1

Q: How many caste are there in Hinduism?

If one searches Caste on google images, the first few images they would be greeted with is this: However on wikipedia, the following is written: There are 3,000 castes and 25,000 sub-castes in India, each related to a specific occupation How does this number of Caste and the most popular divis...

caste-system

Possibly relevant. But with no answers.

Cerberus

21:12

@Robusto a.) to use methamphetamine, cocaine, or other stimulant drugs: He'll try to avoid taking a drug test if he's been tweaking and toking. --- b.) to engage in wildly excited or agitated behavior under the influence of such drugs (usually followed by out): If I'd seen someone else acting this way I would have thought they were tweaking on meth.

Cerberus

21:22

@Mitch Though I see it spelled outcaste sometimes, I think that is probably folk etymology: outcast is probably not from caste at all, but from cast.

> Foreigners not ruled by the Indian nobility in India and all foreigners were sometimes perceived as outcastes and untouchables. (Wikipedia on outcast.)

Mitch

21:47

@Cerberus yes, I never said anything like that but I was thinking about outcaste vs outcast and wondering about their derivations (possibly separate but also possibly commingled)

@FaheemMitha so you -do- use that term 'dalit' -in- India for people who are not in the top 4? Or do you more naturally call them avarna or untouchable or what?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I don't personally use dalit or any other term. I pretend the case system doesn't exist. But at least one person has used the term to me in the recent past.

Robusto

@Cerberus Thanks. I thought that might be too outré to be in a regular dictionary. Poor assumption, I guess.

Faheem Mitha

It's hard to say how much any of these terms are in common use. In the media, one doesn't see any of them. Sometimes the term SC, ST is used. Meaning Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes. Usually in a reservation context.

Robusto

Does the caste system involve Muslims at all?

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto No, it's a Hindu thing.

Mitch

21:54

@FaheemMitha Why does anybody care about anything? I'm not planning on creating a 'maze runner/divergent' game by labeling people with caste labels if that's what you're concerned about motivation-wise. This was all motivated (follow the links upwards) by a made up conversation (presumably based on something like reality) where someone (in India) asks what caste someone is. I don't understand cate so I pursued a bunch of questions about it.

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch I'm not concerned about anything. Just wondering.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha What is a 'reservation context'? I don't know what that means.

Robusto

@Mitch Lies. That's precisely why you want this information. You've been wanting to write a young adult novel about this stuff, in hopes it will get translated to screen/streaming/whatever-big-money.

You are so busted.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha So are dalits still sort of 'within Hinduism' but Muslims are 'outside Hinduism'?

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Yes, apparently people interrogating other people about their caste is a significant problem, and not just in India. I read an article saying it was an issue in the United States. They do it to determine status to decide how badly they can treat them, I suppose.

Mitch

21:57

@Robusto looks down in shame

Actually

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Reserving seats in colleges and government jobs for SC/ST people. That sort of stuff. Causes a lot of problems. Sort of similar to affirmative action.

@Mitch Yes, they're still counted as Hindus, AFAIK.

Like I said, my cook's family is in this category. And a lot of other people as well.

Typically if you do cleaning stuff, you are or were a dalit or SC/ST.

Anyway, going to sleep now. Good night, folks.

Mitch

I was thinking more of a school of magic, high in the remote mountains, where kids learn to use their true magical powers, but they're separated into different houses. People deny it is hereditary and that you can wish your way into one house or another. This myth is perpetuated by the sorting process which, I haven't figured it put exactly but it's some sort of magical selection procedure, maybe a talking cobra that hisses at the clan's herald... something like that,

I'm still working on the details

but I think it'll be popular

I envision a movie franchise.

but it'll also get a generation of kids to read.

Robusto

@Mitch Do the Dalits have to pledge to Slitherin?

Mitch

@FaheemMitha concern, wonder. Now I wonder why -you- wonder.

@Robusto If you buy my series of books you can find out

Robusto

@Mitch I'll wait for the movie.

Mitch

22:03

But as you can expect, the Dalits are more like the Elves

@Robusto The first movie won't be so great because it'll spend most of the viewing time going over things you already about the magical universe, and will quickly run through the plots elements in the last half of the movie.

Robusto

OK, I'll wait for the sequel.

Mitch

Good move

or plan

The movie will start at an English train station at an unnumbered track that you can only access if you're magical. Then all the students get on top of the train, there'll be a musical number where everyone is dancing on top, they go through a tunnel and when they come out they're in the Swiss Alps.

Robusto

European Girls tried to Pronounce The Hardest English Words! (UK, Spain, France, Germany)

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Some amusement here.

Mitch

Oct 26, 2020 at 18:49, by Mitch

@FaheemMitha there's a small problem in the US in a lot of places where Indians are common (like in engineering) that some caste divisions in India are being reproduced in the workplace in the US, and that lots of (former?) dalits are being discriminated against by non-dalit managers.

So we've had similar discussions before. But the one today was simply about the terminology and concept of 'dallit'.

Cerberus

22:37

@Mitch Interesting, I remember now.

How do Indians identify a dalit?

Isn't that hard, if it is somehow from a different culture, e.g. southern India versus the north-west?

Mitch

23:14

@Cerberus Today's conversation all started here:

10 hours ago, by CowperKettle

so I guess it's not obvious you have to ask

but I have heard from Indians that sometimes you can tell by last name.

eg Gupta is (often?) from the kshatriya/warrior caste

I don't think there's a direct correspondence (one last name can be in different castes)

Cerberus

23:31

@Mitch Ahh.

@Mitch Interesting.

But names, across all of India?

I mean, even in Holland, names are usually tied to a certain province, at least historically.

So yo could locate someone's ancestors within 50/100 km, often times.

But the status of a certain name within the hierarchy of a different province? That will be more difficult, unless it's nobility.

And a name from 1000 km away? We'd have absolutely no idea.

@Robusto Even I had vaguely heard of it, so I think it's fairly established!

@Mitch Yeah I know you didn't.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…