English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

David Wallace

00:15

@Cerberus English is full of these, particularly in legal language. "Part and parcel". "Goods and chattels". "Will and testament". It dates back to the time when things had to be understandable and synonymous in both French and English.

Cerberus

00:29

@DavidWallace Yes, well, I'm not sure it all leads back to that: I'd rather say it is typical of international legalese to do so.

You can see it in Latin documents as well.

And in Dutch documents.

And "part" is French as well.

cornbread ninja

@DavidWallace fantastic!

Cerberus

In this document we have just translated, you see "ultima voluntas seu testamentum" all the time.

cornbread ninja

what's this about ultimate testicles, then?

Cerberus

Hi!

This was about David's "will and testament".

Your link doesn't work for me...

cornbread ninja

I see that!

cornbread ninja

00:46

It's funny to me, damnit.

Cerberus

Now I see it, haha.

tchrist

0

A: Why is "dingbat" used to refer to characters like "☺"?

The term dingbat refers to a idiot such as the bat that flew into a bell. When the bat hit the bell it made a ding sound, therefore, ding bat.

You can’t flag it as "not an answer". It is a stupid, wrong, and pathetic answer, but it is still an answer.

I guess you could flag it with "please make it go away".

But they would be within their rights to decline to do so.

cornbread ninja

01:24

You'd flags++ if you marked that as 'not an answer'.

I'm testing this theory for you on the house.

Carlo_R.

01:43

Hello @cornbread - "We're outnumbered" are you so nice to tell me what the meaning is? Thank you.

waiwai933

Actually, it isn't an answer to the question—he/she never addresses what the relationship the word "dingbat" has to those specific characters.

Which is annoying, because I was going to decline the flag just to spite you. :P

tchrist

Hah.

Whoa! Where did everybody go?

cornbread ninja

02:10

@waiwai933 ._.

@Carlo_R. Be more numerous than: "women outnumbered men by three to one".

As I sometimes say somewhat jokingly, your children shouldn't outnumber you (meaning the parents). So... more than two kids would outnumber the parents.

tchrist

@waiwai933 You know, quite a few things get closed as GR without there actually being a citable simple link to a public Internet source for that particular answer. I think people use it for more than that.

-5

Q: "Thank you" at end of a letter or email

Which is correct at the end of a letter or email? "Thank you!" "thank you!"

That was closed as GR. I cannot believe there is a link that explains it.

Carlo_R.

02:26

@cornbread thank you

tchrist

@simchona I think this answer my question:

1

A: Delete votes on 0-scored answers should count as a down-vote

I think this has been implemented, but I'm not sure if it's working as intended. When trolling the low quality posts queue on Arqade, I'm able to click a "delete" (not "recommend deletion") button on 0-scored answers. However, it doesn't register a downvote, and since the post is still at 0, the...

cornbread ninja

03:00

@Carlo_R. you're welcome

nighty nights

Mahnax

Good evening, folks.

Shyam K

04:09

If someone says "Goodnight"(cos its night for them) to you, how do you reply? It is still morning for you, so saying "Goodnight" won't be appropriate, right? Or is it appropriate to say "Goodnight" as you are wishing them a good night's rest/sleep?

Cerberus

@ShyamK You normally use whichever phrase fits the time of the addressee, because it is he that you are wishing a good day/night to. So in this case, the other person is mistaken in saying "goodnight" to you. You would normally wish him a good night back, because that's what it is for him.

However, all of this is completely trivial: it doesn't matter at all what you wish the other person.

Noöne should or would be annoyed if you wished him something that was not correct for his time zone.

If you want to be super correct, always use whatever time if appropriate for the other person; it doesn't matter what he said to you.

In practice, say whatever you want, because nobody thinks it matters.

Mahnax

1 hour ago, by Mahnax

Good evening, folks.

Chatkillah x2.

Cerberus

04:41

@Mahnax Yo!

Mahnax

@Cerberus Ohai!

Cerberus

I'm just going to bed, I am afraid.

Mahnax

I figured you would be.

Cerberus

I was going to immediately after posting that stuff above, but then I was answering a question by Yoichi all of a sudden.

And now it's 6:42...oh well!

Mahnax

Haha, time flies.

Cerberus

04:42

Good night!

Are you going to hand in your resignation tomorrow?

Mahnax

Yes.

Cerberus

OK, good luck.

I hope they won't get mad at you.

Shyam K

@Cerberus Alrighty then...

Mahnax

@Cerberus They'd better not :-)

Cerberus

You could say they can always call you if they need someone to fill in now and then.

So you can say yes or no if they ever call you, decide on the spot whether you feel like it.

But whatever.

@ShyamK Good something to you!

The problem is that we often don't know what time zone our interlocutors are in.

Like now.

And, if we know, we may be too lazy to calculate.

And we may forget.

So, bye both!

Mahnax

04:47

@Cerberus Nope, that won't happen, heh.

But yeah, good night!

Cerberus

OK.

Bye!

Shyam K

bye bye then...

Jez

07:19

@Cerberus you should change your answer that I commented on.

ЯegDwight

08:57

@Cerberus: why does your meta answer end in a but? Don't leave us hanging like that!

Or did you mean to end it in a butt?

Gigili

That's what I wanted to ask.

Perhaps he meant dot.

ЯegDwight

Perhaps he forgot to mean altogether?

Gigili

Yes, that must be it.

Jez

09:14

well, I've bitten the bullet: addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/…

hello SeaMonkey, fuck you Firefox devs.

:-)

Now I have weeks of fun mucking around with SeaMonkey's default theme to get it looking like Firefox 3

SeaMonkey is better in the long-term, though, because you don't get people like Ass Dotzler saying things like "most users don't use....."

it's actually for power users like me

ЯegDwight

10:16

Maldivian sure looks peculiar.

ދަމުއި

ދަމުއި()ނުވަތަ () އަކީ ދަމުއި އަކީ ދިވެހިބޭހަށް ބޭނުންކުރާ އެއްޗެކެވެ. ދަމުއިގެ ތަފާތު ދެބާވަތެއް ހުރެއެވެ. އެއީ ހިތި ދަމުއި އާއި އަދި ފަރިހި ދަމުއި އެވެ. ދަމުއި އަކީ ހަވާދުގެ ބާވަތެއްގެ ގޮތުގައި ބޭނުންކުރާ އެއްޗެއް ވެސް މެއެވެ. ދަމުއި އަޅާ ގަސް ބޮޑުވަނީ 60-40 ސެންޓި މީޓަރުވަރުގެ އުސްމިނަކަށެވެ. ދަމުއި ގަސް ވެސް ހުންނަނީ ކެރެޓް ގަހާއި ވައްތަރު ގޮތަކަށެވެ. ފަރިހި ދަމުއި އެކޭ އެއް ގޮތަށް ދަމުއި ގަހުގެ ފަތަކީ ވެސް ތަފާތު ވައްތަރުގެ ސުރުވާ، އަސާރަ އަދި އެހެނިހެން ކާތަކެތީގައި ރަހަ ޖެއްސުމަށް ބޭނުންކޮށް އުޅޭ އެއްޗެކެވެ. ދަމުއި އަކީ ފަރިހި ދަމުއި އެކޭ އެއް ގޮތަށް ހަވާދުގެ ބާވަތެއްގެ ގޮތުގައި ބ...

Matt Эллен

everything has a diacritic?

ЯegDwight

A diacritic the size of the letter, no less.

Looks like the language of choice for sewing machines.

Matt Эллен

:D

related to Sinhala. interesting

Shyam K

10:46

@ЯegDwight like a siren to me... I get dizzy from looking at it for some time... but I can't keep my eyes off it...

Jez

anyone ever heard of the word "verbier" being used in English?

Matt Эллен

as in "that sentence was verbier than expected"? nope. can't say that I have.

what would that mean? too many verbs?

too many words?

tchrist

0

A: How to configure VPN programatically?

Salut Paul! Tu ai mai gasit solutia cum sa configurezi VPN?

What language is that, and what does gasit mean?

ЯegDwight

Romanian?

tchrist

That's what I was wondering.

Google translate doesn't help.

The only word that I don't get -- with or without GT -- is gasit.

ЯegDwight

10:53

Ask @jsbձոգչ

Oh yeah, with a name like that he's gotta be Romanian.

tchrist

I was hoping that the off-word might have had a Slavic cognate you’d’ve recognized.

There are 103 Not-An-Answer flags this morning.

Of which that was one.

Matt Эллен

GT worked for me

ЯegDwight

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/g%C4%83sit

tchrist

@MattЭллен That pisses me off that it didn’t work for me.

ЯegDwight

So, "have you found".

The rest is self-explanatory without Google Translate.

tchrist

10:56

Right.

ЯegDwight

Actually, with the rest being self-explanatory we could have guessed that one word, too.

Matt Эллен

@tchrist how disappointing. I wonder what went wrong

tchrist

> From Slavic gasiti

ЯegDwight

That was my first hunch, but it didn't make sense.

Gasiti means to extinguish.

Matt Эллен

clearly it's from the latin gastro - because the way to find a man is through his stomach.

tchrist

10:58

@MattЭллен It bothers me that the same people can run the same thing through GT and get different answers. If I wanted that, I’d use people.

ЯegDwight

@MattЭллен And gastro is a combination of German "Gast", guest, and "Ro", the language code for Romanian. A Romanian guest. It all makes sense now!

Matt Эллен

:D

@tchrist true, true! I wonder what Mr. Norvig is up to

Is Google Translate just a Mechanical Turk?

ЯegDwight

A Digital Turk.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. I'm fairly sure "the number of poor" is acceptable. "The upliftment of poor" is somewhat different, it requires disambiguation, which is why the definite article is used.

tchrist

The number of poor isn’t too hot either.

ЯegDwight

11:06

A murder of poor.

tchrist

crows

ЯegDwight

Crows are rich. How else could they afford to hang out in crowbars?

Matt Эллен

the number of poor looks good to me

tchrist

Must be a naval port.

Matt Эллен

Yeah, all men get are manholes

tchrist

11:09

Any port in a storm.

Matt Эллен

lol

tchrist

@MattЭллен Try this one.

Matt Эллен

about equal. that's good.

so poor can be understood as "poor people"

tchrist

The poor shall be with you always.

--jc

Matt Эллен

11:27

I had to read "They all are fine vs They are all fine" over 9000 times before I saw the difference. I must be tired or something.

ЯegDwight

So he asks about the differences in meaning between different word orders, and guess what he does not tag his question with. That's right, difference, meaning, word-order.

Matt Эллен

11:47

I wonder if one were to tag a question on SO with the most popular tags, regardless of the appropriateness, would that improve the likelihood of a good answer?

ЯegDwight

Not sure. Why would people answer questions that illegally invade their tag?

I think downvotes and a quick retag is more likely.

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight because they can (if they can)

reps vs indignation

ЯegDwight

I dunno.

If I'm following the CSS tag and ignoring C# and ASP.NET, and you ask a C# question tagged CSS, I will not answer it.

And I will hate you forever.

Matt Эллен

lol

for ever?

ЯegDwight

And ever.

Matt Эллен

11:51

oh dear

I'll be sure not to do that then

ЯegDwight

You've been warned.

Matt Эллен

I have

Robusto

He can't keep it up forever.

Matt Эллен

can he keep it up for long enough?

Robusto

⧞

Matt Эллен

12:01

is that an infinity symbol with a line through the middle?

wikipedia doesn't recognise it

Robusto

It is "not infinity" according to my special-characters list.

Matt Эллен

then that is what shall go in the wikipedia article

Robusto

☀

ЯegDwight

No unicodes of chocolate starfishes in this chat.

Robusto

☀☀☀☀☀☀☀☀

ЯegDwight

12:05

I am very offended! Someone flag him already.

Robusto

⚠

Matt Эллен

I have to fill in a box if I want to flag something? That's just criminal.

KitFox

12:18

Shiver me timbers, we've no new pirate questions today.

Matt Эллен

Rrrrr, and not much time ta rite thum

KitFox

'tis me poor planning and foul mood what sullied the day.

brb coffee

Matt Эллен

Blast, 'ere I thaat TLAPD was the 23rd. I don't know where I be gettin such daft ideas

ЯegDwight

Okay, this XKCD is a huge time sink, I'll give him that.

2

Jez

interesting how we have the words "sarky" and "snarky", which mean much the same thing

KitFox

12:26

@ЯegDwight inorite i spent like ten minutes on it already.

ЯegDwight

@KitFox there's a PDF of it all

It was fun at first, but when I went underground and it just wouldn't stop, I started losing interest.

Vertical scrolling is a PITA.

Matt Эллен

true dirt

ЯegDwight

I mean, when it goes on like this for three minutes of constant clicking and dragging, you start to want your life back.

KitFox

Thanks for the pdf.

Now I guess I have no more excuses. Back to the datepickers.

ЯegDwight

@mr.shinyandnew安宇 It is possible. I told you.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

12:36

@ЯegDwight That's pretty frickin' awesome.

Jez

@ЯegDwight boy, i'd like to have the whole image of that

the server serves up tiles as you drag, you it appears you can't download it

ЯegDwight

Read on and you will find.

Jez

oh yeah

Gigili

Then I can assume it to be "Can I help X?" where "who's next"=X. Right? — Gigili 3 hours ago

Am I right?

Hellot, BTW.

Matt Эллен

Hellot to you too

ЯegDwight

12:46

I'm not sure what your question there is.

Gigili

I don't know how to explain it further.

ЯegDwight

Hm.

Gigili

Actually that's what the other answer is suggesting.

> I parse the "who is next" as its own inner clause that is all collectively the object of "Can I help"

ЯegDwight

Well yes. That's what the question is all about.

Gigili

Who's next = X, the one who is next in line=X, Can I help Mr.X?

ЯegDwight

12:52

Well yes. That's what the question is all about.

As in, that's not part of the answer. That's part of the question.

Matt Эллен

"can I make what is shown?" so, yes @Gigili, "Can I help who is next" can work like that

ЯegDwight

Careful, that's cheating.

Pullum expressly addresses that.

tchrist

Can I help whoever you told me you thought would be next?

Matt Эллен

@ЯegDwight who? He's wrong.

ЯegDwight

Who ≠ whoever.

Who ≠ what.

Who behaves differently.

tchrist

12:54

How?

Gigili

Sep 16 at 0:55, by David Wallace

@WillHunting Whenever Reg Dwight says anything, it's the second time he's said it.

Matt Эллен

it might do more, but it doesn't do less

Gigili

@MattЭллен Uhum, thank you.

ЯegDwight

Can you perhaps do me a favor and read my answer?

Because we are discussing my answer here.

Matt Эллен

all of it?

ЯegDwight

12:55

Without having read my answer we shouldn't be discussing my answer.

@MattЭллен preferrably more than all of it. All of Pullum's post.

tchrist

Can I help who you told me you thought would be next?

Gigili

I read your answer and asked a question which you may choose not to answer.

ЯegDwight

I am still not sure what your question is.

I fail to see how it's different from the original question.

Gigili

I don't know how to explain it further.

My question does not even have a character in common with that question.

tchrist

space

Gigili

12:58

The question is asking if "can I help who's next?" is correct.

Do me a favor and read the question.

ЯegDwight

I did. Several times, over the course of several years.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…