English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-03-04 (page 1 of 3)

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12:18 AM

"We're all one thing, Lieutenant. That's what I've come to realize. Like cells in a body. 'Cept we can't see the body. The way fish can't see the ocean. And so we envy each other. Hurt each other. Hate each other. How silly is that? A heart cell hating a lung cell." - Cassie from THE THREE

@Kosmonaut: Check your mailbox, please.

12:56 AM

Didn't we just have this question?

0

Q: It isn't vs It's not

Is one stronger than the other? More correct? Just curious, one of the many abstract things to pop into my head on the drive home today...

1:08 AM

@Martha — So it would seem.

I can't seem to find the duplicate, though. "They aren't" vs. "They're not" is related, but not exactly the same.

Close enough for rock 'n' roll.

I don't want to vote to close a question as an "exact duplicate" when the duplication (if any) is patently not exact.

You are demonstrating admirable forbearance.

1:34 AM

Whoa, we have a gusher on our hands here.

15

Q: What is this an example of: "She looks as though she's been poured into her clothes, and forgot to say 'when"

Comedians seem to use phrases that employ this type of sentence structure - is there a name for it? Examples of Groucho Marx's one liners seem to fit this pattern - and if memory serves, Emo Philips. "One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas, I don't know." "I've...

sentence-patterns structure

D'ya think suggestive references build traffic here?

Now whatever makes you suggest that??

294 views in like 4 hours.

I was being facetious, dear.

I know. I pasted that before your reply.

But your question beat me to it.

Sure, anyone can say that.

:p

1:37 AM

I know: that that that that that. There, I said it.

Thwack!

I mean I said that.

Still 'thwack'.

Oh, and it's been favorited times! Someone is working the system.

I could have gone to sleep and made the daily rep cap off of that answer alone.

Apropos nothing, something on EL&U isn't loading properly. All the pages (well, tabs) I have open keep showing the "loading" animation.

1:39 AM

Seriously, every time I click the "Questions" link I get another 10 rep from that one answer.

Time to close some tabs, I think.

@Robusto I fail to see this as a bad thing. :)

@Robusto Doesn't help/matter.

I don't mind the rep, but geez, I've given much better answers for a lot less.

Ohhhhh ... it's a "hot question" in the SE dropdown.

Right now, the main page says "Transferring data from www.google-analytics.com...", but I've also seen "Waiting for pixel.quantserve.com" and "Waiting for www.gravatar.com".

@Robusto Well, that would explain it.

@Martha — I would try quitting your browser completely and then coming back on.

Well, yeah, perhaps I ought to take the drastic step of, oh, I dunno, going home.

1:45 AM

31 votes on that answer and counting. It's already my third highest-scoring answer. I think if it hits 50 I get a set of steak knives or something.

@Martha — What, are you still at work?

Ayup.

Not really working per se, but still here.

That sucks. It's almost 9:00.

When I go home, I do much the same thing, except on a much smaller screen.

Get a bigger screen.

You can get a 24" monitor for $200 these days.

Technically, I could - my laptop has all sorts of HDMI ports and such - but then I'd have to get like an actual desk and such, instead of plopping down in front of the TV.

1:50 AM

"The wish to be cured is itself a step toward health."

Yeah yeah yeah.

Is that a Beatles reference?

Probably not, except maybe an inadvertent one. I'm terrible at pop culture references - grew up without a TV.

Umm, The Beatles were not a TV show. That was The Monkees.

I know that, silly. I meant that I can't immediately identify a Beatles tune when I hear it, and I definitely can't quote their lyrics at the drop of a hat, because that sort of thing just wasn't part of my formative years.

Stupid webboggle doesn't take "enth".

2:01 AM

But I'm sure you can hum "Smells Like Teen Spirit" ...

Not sure if I can. I mean, I might recognize the tune if I heard it, and I know I've heard that title, but I can't go from title to tune.

Um, what color is the sky in your world, Martha?

I can't go a day without listening to music.

Blue, unless it's cloudy. Or dark.

I'm listening to music right now. Beethoven, if I'm not mistaken.

(It's the online feed of the local classical station.)

No, wait, (turning up the volume a bit), that's actually Mozart.

Mozart what?

Symphony? Concerto?

Sonata?

...checking program guide... ayup: Mozart's Jupiter Symphony (#41 in C).

2:08 AM

Not asking for the Köchel number, just a description of the piece.

Ah, that would be K.551 (Köchelverzeichnis 551).

Los Angeles Chamber Orchestra, conducted by Jeffrey Kahane.

Köchel catalogue

:This is a complete list of the works of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, listed chronologically. For a selective list of his works, grouped by genre, see List of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart. The Köchel-Verzeichnis is a complete, chronological catalogue of compositions by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1756–91) which was originally created by Ludwig von Köchel. It is abbreviated K or KV. For example, Mozart's Requiem in D minor was, according to Köchel's counting, the 626th piece Mozart composed. Thus, the piece is designated K. 626 or KV 626. Köchel catalogue numbers not only attem...

symphonycast.publicradio.org/programs/2011/02/28

See? I'ma go all @RegDwight on your ass.

Ok, I really should go home. See you later! (Probably not much later, I live less than 2 miles from the office.)

2:12 AM

Later.

7 hours later…

8:48 AM

Hi

Who knows what does it mean "to culture"

from "The Mexican" by J London

But to culture the Revolution thus far had exhausted the Junta

9:12 AM

verb [ trans. ] Biology
maintain (tissue cells, bacteria, etc.) in conditions suitable for growth.

so, I would say sustain or nurture

@Robusto Haha, that reminds me of a recent Wer wird Millionär? episode. The question was like, "What is KV551?", and the answers were like, Jupiter Symphony, Saturn Ring Romance, Mercury Opera, Moonlight Sonata. And it wasn't the stupidest candidate, she already had 64k, and this was her 125k question, and her parents were like music professors or something, and I'm not making this shit up.

So what she says is, "yeah, my parents are like music professors or something, and my dad listens to all these symphonies day in, day out, and I know that KV means Köchelverzeichnis, so yeah, this is such a stoopid question, of course it's the Moonlight Sonata!"

And so she went home with 500 €.

unterhaltung.t-online.de/…

1 hour later…

10:48 AM

Um, what?

0

Q: Is it common for English people to say "crap" instead of "crab"?

Hi, When you read "crab", do you think of "crap"? Thanks

11:00 AM

@RegDwight — That's why there's a show called "The Deadliest Catch": dsc.discovery.com/tv/deadliest-catch

Never heard of that one...

I'm continually amazed and appalled by people's lack of knowledge about classical music.

Or lack of it.

Lack of lack of knowledge? That would make for an excellent band name.

Don't judge me. I am yet coffeeless this morning.

or a good song name for TAFKATAFKAP :)

11:04 AM

And it's not like Der Mondscheinsonate isn't like the most obvious piece of piano music you could name. I mean, if there is one you should have heard before, and be able to eliminate from that list, it is that piece.

@Robusto No judging here. I actually thought that was on purpose.

Nah. Wake me up at 3:00 in the morning and you'll find I can't talk like a native speaker either.

But what if I wake you up by pouring some coffee over you?

If I get a caffeine drip IV, I should be fine.

<making notes>

11:07 AM

Hey, there's a movie sequel for you: Caffeine Drip IV — "This time it's personal."

Or Caffeine Drip IV: Wake Up and Smell The Coffee

♫ I'm a daaaaay dripper... ♫

Caffeine Drip IV: In Space, Noone Can Hear You Sleep

We already had Caffeine Drip II: Hey, Pour Me A Cup

@FX_ That one I will so steal from you.

Do I have to link Peter Noone's Wikipedia page again? When are you furreigners gonna learn to separate "no one" from "someone"?

11:10 AM

@RegDwight speaking of which, are chat transcripts under CC-BY-SA license?

42

Q: Have you dealt with space hardening?

I am very eager to study best practices when it comes to space hardening. For instance, I've read (though I can't find the article any longer) that some core parts of the Mars rovers did not use dynamic memory allocation, in fact it was forbidden. I've also read that old fashioned core memory may...

@FX_ No idea.

@Robusto well, I was to busy hitting the cap-locks key to make sure Every Damn Word Of This Stupid Language Was Capitalized to think about noone vs. no one

Wow, the paraprosdokian answer turned into an overnight bestseller. Top answer ever for me in less than a day. And all because of the sexual reference of the OP's question.

@FX_ It's the poor workman who curses his tools.

I have not cursed my tool in a long time, thank you

And @RegDwight made the mistake too.

11:14 AM

Oh come on, like you never make any typos.

@Robusto ah, tool*s*! I see...

Tool is an American progressive metal band from Los Angeles, California. Formed in 1990, the group's line-up has included drummer Danny Carey, guitarist Adam Jones, and vocalist Maynard James Keenan. Since 1995, Justin Chancellor has been the band's bassist, replacing their original bassist Paul D'Amour. Tool has won three Grammy Awards, performed worldwide tours, and produced albums topping the charts in several countries. Tool emerged with a heavy metal sound on their first studio album Undertow in 1993, and later became a dominant act in the alternative metal movement with the releas...

Next time I'll just write noöne, on purpose.

You do that.

@RegDwight you're overreäcting

11:15 AM

Anyhow, your bestseller generated a spin-off.

1

Q: what is funny in this sentence?

I was reading the wiki page about Paraprosdokian when I come across this sentence: "One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas, I don't know." Can someone please explain to me what is funny about it? Thank you.

@RegDwight — Is the second o pronounced like the ö in schön?

Yes, and that's on purpose, too. An umlaut. In your face!

@RegDwight — Haha, so her lawyers need to contact my lawyers about subsidiary rights and such.

And if you were throwing an umlaut at my face, you clearly missed.

Actually, it will generate yet another spin-off right here right now, because you will have to explain to me what's so funny about that original sentence.

I understand the "She looks as though she's been poured into her clothes" part, but not the rest.

@Robusto ¨ ⤴ ☺

11:19 AM

I never made any assertion that it was funny. I gave an example of one I thought was funny, but on later reading I realized the OP had included that one as well. That question was so planted, I'm convinced. I bet the OP had a bet going with someone at Fog Creek.

@FX_ You're clearly missing. It should be ¨ → ☺

Hahaha. Dammit! Good thing those umlauts are easy to wash off.

2 mins ago, by Robusto

And if you were throwing an umlaut at my face, you clearly missed.

this is what I drew

@Robusto Okay, forget funny. Explain the meaning. "Forgot to say 'when'" WHAT?

@FX_ — I got it. It's just that @RegDwight hit me that second time around.

The Hahaha was for you, FX_.

Anyway, about the question.

11:22 AM

@FX_ Okay, so now it's not just English that I don't understand, it's Unicode as a whole.

When a good-looking woman is wearing a dress, slavering, oversexed men will say "She looks like she's been poured into that dress." When you pour someone a beverage, like milk or wine, it is common in English to announce: "Say when." to the recipient, so they will indicate when you should stop pouring.

at least, Unicode has a standardisation body!

Most people will make a small, worn joke out of that as well, and say "When!"

@Robusto Well, that actually is funny.

"Say when" meaning "Say when to stop."

11:24 AM

Yup, got it. A million thanks.

It's the same in a lot of other languages, but I didn't draw the connection at all.

That's "Thanks a million," you non-native Commie.

@RegDwight please, no, we can't afford the bandwidth

13 hours ago, by RegDwight

I mean, now I can just write any rubbish that hapens my to come head first, know?

So in France les Internetz charge you by the word?

@RegDwight That never stopped you before.

How would you know?

11:26 AM

Well, as long as I've known you, anyway.

speaking of charging by the word, there's this nice geek company that bills offsite backups in picodollars per byte

My comments on Reddit are a pinnacle in achievement of excellence. Here on EL&U, I just write stuff.

Meantime, I must get coffee. And also meanwhile, the votes keep coming in for paraprosdokian.

tarsnap.com/picoUSD-why.html

43 and counting. Sheesh.

11:29 AM

@Robusto I'm so sad; I answered a Charlie Sheen question this morning, only from the hope that it might draw a few more views than the usual slow traffic

and you're casting your shadow all over my nice potentially popular question

It's a veritable juggernaut. You can't stop it, you can only hope to contain it!

I hit the rep cap from that question alone today. Now I have nothing to live for until tomorrow.

@Robusto I liked how someone tried to jump on that bandwagon by hijacking a comment. (Mixed metaphors FTW.)

I am still struggling to understand what makes a question popular on EL&U, but maybe I'll try a few in the future

I have had success on stackoverflow before:

134

Q: How to get users to read error messages?

If you program for a nontechnical audience, you find yourself at a high risk that users will not read your carefully worded and enlightening error messages, but just click on the first button available with a shrug of frustration. So, I'm wondering what good practices you can recommend to help u...

user-interface error-message information-display

@FX_ It just happens. Out of nowhere. Once in a blue moon. You can't really predict it.

ShreevatsaR, Robusto, ghoppe, myself, and a zillion others, we've all been there.

@FX_ Haha, just checked out that question, sure enough, the up arrow is orange for me.

gone for lunch, see you!

11:36 AM

I just wonder how long it will stay up. (Before being migrated to UI or Programmers or Psychology.)

CU. Bon appétit!

12:05 PM

Possible dupe:

0

Q: Multiple compound words

Hello, I'm a non-native english speaker and I'm writing a scientific paper about biometric identification based on heart sounds. In this context, is the following sentence correct? Comparison of recent articles on heart sounds-based biometrics I am using it as a caption for a table.

7

Q: How to connect a word and a phrase with a dash?

For example, "file system" and "related". Is it "file system-related"? It will appear as if it is a compound of "file" and "system-related", won't it?

phrases punctuation adjectives hyphen modifiers

What do the little numbers to the left of the question title in the "hot" box dropdown mean?

Arbitrarily awarded hotness points.

That's the official wording.

Just hover over the numbers at stackexchange.com/questions

4

A: How do the "arbitrary hotness points" work on the new Stack Exchange home page?

Basically what's documented here: http://meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/11602/what-formula-should-be-used-to-determine-hot-questions We have a few tweaks: Succeeding questions from the same site are penalized by increasing amounts. So, the first question from SO in the list gets multip...

I can only conclude that nerds outnumber sexually active men on these sites then, since the "poured into dress" question has recently bowed to a question about Microsoft Office.

Um, I'm looking really hard to find anything surprising in that statement, to no avail.

And this one, currently at #4, looks like bait and switch:

4

Q: Is is possible to filter the output of tail?

I'd like to tail a file but only output lines that have a certain string in them. Is this possible?

You understand the not-so-*kulturny* meaning of "tail"?

12:20 PM

Every time I visit Server Fault I get turned off by all the ads.

We have it so good here.

Tru dat.

Greetings.

@Robusto Schwanz.

Hola, Cerberus.

@Cerberus Hello, multiheader.

12:21 PM

A principled anti-adblocker, I presume?

@RegDwight Genau

@Cerberus Not at all. Not even at home.

Hello @weird Chinese character and @Owl.

That's dream.

And I wanted to change my avatar a few times already.

The character? OK good to know.

12:23 PM

夢

U+5922

That looks like you have just sneezed onto the page.

Or is that your owl and have you named it Dream?

Hi FX.

Feb 9 at 13:55, by RegDwight

I have actually seen that owl in person.

It looks cute, I congratulate you.

What is it about nocturnal mammals that makes them so attractive?

Feb 9 at 13:58, by RegDwight

He was so cute, wearing those fluffy pants and all.

12:25 PM

And it's Japanese, not Chinese. (Although it comes from Chinese originally, and still means the same thing and is written the same way in Chinese, I understand. But I got it at the Japanese Kanji Store.)

I mean, warm-blooded animals.

@Cerberus you find bats attractive?

Ah ok got it. @Robusto

@Cerberus I don't think them owls are attractive to mice, say.

Yes, bats are cute and funny—though perhaps not when they fly into your hair.

Neither are cats to mice...

12:26 PM

ゆめ yume is the Japanese reading of the kanji.

2 days ago, by Robusto

Kittens of the breed non sequitur.

Feb 25 at 2:11, by Robusto

@ina — Neither. I'm American. The character 夢　「ゆめ」(yume) that makes up my Gravatar means "dream" in Japanese.

Feb 19 at 16:52, by Robusto

Only I know it from Japanese: yume

secretlab.romulusetrem.us/kanji/?u=5922

See? If I wait long enough, @RegDwight will look up all this shit for me.

Wait how does it work again? Japanese has three sets of marks: 1. set of Chinese words, 2. regular Japanese "grammar" morphemes, 3. set for European loan words?

@Robusto This shit, and many more shits!

12:27 PM

I thought Kanji was no. 2?

@Cerberus Kanji, hiragana and katakana

@Cerberus Kanji are the Chinese-originated word/characters

Prepare to get educated.

Ahh...

(@Reg yeah I know...)

Thanks guys, now I am enlightened.

漢字、ひらがな、カタカナ。

12:29 PM

Those the words for 123?

Those are, in order, kanji, hiragana, katakana.

Each an example of itself.

0

Q: What does it mean "to pick someone's cherry"?

Does it strictly refer to taking someone's virginity, or does it express sexual intercourse in general?

And are they all 100% written in their respective letters?

Ah.

now who wants to bet how many views that will get? :)

Haha oh dear.

12:30 PM

@FX_ I'm willing to bet it won't be too successful.

No?

I thought sexual phrases usually got us attention?

at least it was properly tagged (which, for a newcomer, is nice!)

@Robusto I plugged them into Google Translate just for giggles, and was amazed.

Once in a blue moon, even GT gets it right.

Is it usually so bad? I rarely use it.

Nobody picks anybody's cherry. Read my reply to the question.

You pop someone's cherry.

12:33 PM

I have a question that is not so much about language as about etiquette and conversation: how do you respond to a stranger asking you after a minute or two: "what is love to you?".

@Cerberus Get off the bus at the next stop.

Hehe.

Okay it was in a bar.

@Robusto I thought that was obvious.

What kind of bar?

Well it wasn't too sleazy.

12:34 PM

@RegDwight The OP didn't think so

@Cerberus Are you quoting the opening scene from Matrix: Revolutions?

Me, film references? Nah...

**Neo**: You believe in karma?
**Rama-Kandra:** Karma's a word. Like "love." A way of saying "what I am here to do."

Dear God.

Actually, I was looking for this one:
Neo: I just have never...
Rama-Kandra: ...heard a program speak of love?
Neo: It's a... human emotion.
Rama-Kandra: No, it is a word. What matters is the connection the word implies. I see that you are in love. Can you tell me what you would give to hold on to that connection?
Neo: Anything.
Rama-Kandra: Then perhaps the reason you're here is not so different from the reason I'm here.

12:37 PM

@RegDwight @RegDwight: Now say that again in a Barry White voice.

I am just baffled at such questions. I believe the Japanese have a word "mu" that might be used to good effect?

Barry Eugene White ( – ) was an American record producer and singer-songwriter. A five-time Grammy Award-winner known for his distinctive bass voice and romantic image, White's greatest success came in the 1970s as a solo singer and with the Love Unlimited Orchestra, crafting many enduring soul, funk, and disco songs such as his two biggest hits, "You're the First, the Last, My Everything" and "Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe". Worldwide, White had many gold and platinum albums and singles, with combined sales of over 100 million, according to critics Ed Hogan and Wade Kergan. ...

@Robusto Snakes... Snakes... Snakes!

Incidentally, is "the Japanese" correct in this context?

As an alternative to simply "Japanese".

Which context?

12:38 PM

"I am just baffled at such questions. I believe the Japanese have a word "mu" that might be used to good effect?"

Eh I don't do fancy quoting.

As I said, snakes.

無 means "zero" or "nothing"

That is pretty funny.

Pronounced mu

Did I hear him say "hhonor"?

12:41 PM

Ah okay; and could "mu" be used as an answer like "n/a" to a question?

That will be Barry White in the background.

That's another great movie.

Elton John was in the background, too.

In my Top 5 comedies, for sho.

And a few others, too.

There was very little music in that film.

12:44 PM

But lots of songs.

One of the best scenes, btw.

Ever seen Clint Eastwood's True Crime? That had zero musical score until like the last 3 minutes.

Yeah. That, for me, was a James Woods movie punctuated by long, tedious intermissions of Clint Eastwood doing his schtick.

BTW, Robusto, speaking of revisiting former GFs: ever seen Broken Flowers by Jim Jarmusch with Bill Murray?

Nope.

Broken Flowers is a 2005 French/American comedy-drama film written and directed by Jim Jarmusch and produced by Jon Kilik and Stacey Smith. The film focuses on an aging "Don Juan" who embarks on a cross-country journey to track down four of his former lovers after receiving an anonymous letter stating that he has a son. The film stars Bill Murray, Jeffrey Wright, Sharon Stone, Frances Conroy, Jessica Lange, Tilda Swinton, Julie Delpy, Chloë Sevigny, and Mark Webber. Plot Don Johnston (Bill Murray), a former Don Juan having made a small fortune in the computer industry, wants to live in qu...

12:48 PM

@Cerberus Could be.

@RegDwight I will have to check it out.

Do it. I would like to hear your opinion.

Will do.

Meanwhile ...

It's a rather slow movie. I liked that a lot. Some commenters on IMDB didn't. Roger Ebert gave it the maximum number of stars IIRC.

Oh, aaaaand one last "ever seen" question: what about The Man Who Wasn't There?

The Man Who Wasn't There

The Man Who Wasn't There is a 2001 American neo-noir film written and directed by Joel and Ethan Coen. Billy Bob Thornton stars in the title role. Also featured are James Gandolfini, Tony Shalhoub, Scarlett Johansson, and Coen regulars Frances McDormand, Michael Badalucco, and Jon Polito. Plot Set in and around Santa Rosa, California in 1949, the film follows Ed Crane, a suburban barber, married to Doris, a bookkeeper with a drinking problem. Doris' boss at Nirdlinger's, the local department store, is "Big Dave" Brewster, a loud, boisterous man, who constantly brags about his combat adv...

We keep talking about the Coen brothers, but nobody's mentioned that one so far.

Yeah. I didn't see that one, strangely enough.

@Robusto: Okay, thanks.

12:53 PM

@Cerberus — The Japanese would not be likely to be so confrontational in an answer, however. Instead of making so emphatic a contradiction they would be more likely to hem and haw, say something like Eee, muzukashii desu ne. (Well, it's very dififcult, isn't it?")

Hehe yeah, that would be the politest way.

@Robusto I like it how oftentimes when they want to say "no", they start by saying "hai".

A lot of people think hai means "yes" in Japanese, and in a sense it does. But it can also be a negative reply. It just means "I heard you"

Jinx!

I tried that, by the way, but it didn't work, to the "what is love?" question. I said something like "well that is a difficult question; what do you mean exactly?".

Is that a jinx yet? Not that I'm running out of 7-gram rocks anytime soon, but still.

12:56 PM

Nice.

You owe me, buster. Cough it up.

Okay, okay, I'm in the process.

And get Charlie Sheen's end loader if you need to lug it.

user image

Epic fail!

I can tell you're a non-native speaker, btw.

12:57 PM

Yeah that can was pretty obvious.

Jan 4 at 17:45, by Kosmonaut

"You all want any coke?" -- "Sure, I'll have a 7up"

I mean, come on, whoever would still drink that in the US or UK...

But on the other hand, that may be how ex-Sov-bloc Commies pronounce "coke".

Hehe.

So, are you saying that Kosmonaut is a Commie Traitor?

12:59 PM

Kosmonaut's dotted map must have been pointing out all sorts of communist sects in the USA then...

@Robusto No, ex-Sov-bloc Commies pronounce it thusly:

4

Q: How to pronounce "Coke" so it is not mistaken for another word?

I always fear my conversation sounds like this: — What would you like to drink, sir? — I will take some cock, thanks. — ROFL. Any tips on how to pronounce Coke so it is not mistaken for anything? :)

Awww....

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Mar '114

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…

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