English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

22:01

BRB

FumbleFingers

@RegDwight: Why do you post the dup link, but not actually close (or at least vote to close)

simchona

@FumbleFingers Because if a mod votes, it's binding.

tchrist

@FumbleFingers You cannot ping him that way.

ЯegDwight

@FumbleFingers why do you try to ping me and fail?

tchrist

xnij

Whence the blue swarm?

ЯegDwight

22:02

I have no particular reason. Perhaps my sixth sense told me that it would result in a hilarious exchange.

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight I guess. I thot you'd be here anyway

ЯegDwight

@ЯegDwight: That's my question ? — Praveen 3 mins ago

simchona

Thoth

:For other meanings of "Thoth", or of "Djehuti" and similar, see Thoth (disambiguation). Thoth ( or ; from Greek, from Egyptian , perhaps pronounced ) was considered one of the more important deities of the Egyptian pantheon. In art, he was often depicted as a man with the head of an ibis or a baboon, animals sacred to him. As in the main picture, Thoth is almost always shown holding a Was (a wand or rod symbolizing power) in one hand and an Ankh (the key of the Nile symbolizing life) in the other hand. His feminine counterpart was Seshat, and his wife was Ma'at. Thoth's chief temple w...

tchrist

@ЯegDwight Perhaps you are trailing the chat in a non-logged-in window.

@simchona That was my customary screen name the last time I did chat.

ЯegDwight

@tchrist I have better stuff to do with my life than Grace Note.

FumbleFingers

22:03

@ЯegDwight but it is a dup

ЯegDwight

I know.

tchrist

@ЯegDwight You prefer I should believe in sixth senses?

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight run that by me again. you thot leaving that q open was potentially going to be diverting?

ЯegDwight

Why do people always insist that I think? I'm not Descartes.

tchrist

Poofter!

Frankly, I am amazed that @Sim has let it run as long as she has.

FumbleFingers

22:05

@ЯegDwight I insist you think! You think, therefore I'm allowed not to bother!

simchona

@tchrist Let what run.

tchrist

@simchona The spelling-peever question.

Its comments are . . . getting there.

And now we have XVH whingeing at FF about lack of refs.

Silliness.

FumbleFingers

I think it was wrongly closed, obviously

ЯegDwight

Perhaps I'm running a little social experiment? Whether the OP will delete it, how long it will stay open, who ignores it all and posts an answer, and what will it be? Something like that or nothing of that kind? Perhaps?

I, for one, have no idea.

It's Sunday.

tchrist

Amen.

FumbleFingers

22:07

@ЯegDwight you'd rightfully tick the rest of us off for such tomfoolery!

tchrist

Hey, that’s my job!

simchona

@tchrist As much as I dislike XVH, I don't think he's always wrong

FumbleFingers

@tchrist gimmie a break. I got enough grief being ticked off by XVH who thinks I lack authority

tchrist

@simchona People can be right but be superdicks about it. XVH falls into that category even when he is right.

@FumbleFingers For what? When? I’m not ragging on you.

I’m just mindlessly nattering about XVH’s pomposity.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist amen. losing to xvh as almost as bad as losing to you!

tchrist

22:09

What me to fix that for you?

ЯegDwight

There! Lo and behold, the experiment ended up summoning nohat.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist haha no thanx! I'll stay wrong on my own way!

ЯegDwight

Now if that ain't something, then something has no meaning.

Besides, I'm not even here. I'm in their SOs closing their questions.

simchona

@tchrist Ok, and being a superdick isn't really a superflaggable offense.

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight so now you're getting off summoning up all the big guns?

tchrist

22:11

@FumbleFingers So I see: Anyone who's a "stickler for orthographic correctness" in OP's sense is likely [sic] care as much about, say, punctuation as they are about spelling.

@simchona I haven’t flagged him for asking for refs.

simchona

We've all had the "I'm right, you're wrong" thing. Many more comments than XVH's have been pointed out in that regard.

ЯegDwight

@FumbleFingers how do you mean, "now"?

tchrist

I have laughed at him though.

@FumbleFingers No, @Shog9 is still zombied.

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight well, "now" is only the second time I've come to chat on account of finding you

tchrist

Put it on his tab.

FumbleFingers

22:13

@tchrist Shog9? "zombied"?

tchrist

shhhh

ЯegDwight

tchrist

@FumbleFingers He’s the penultimate lurker in the zombie stack.

Easy come, easy go.

ЯegDwight

Haha, that must've been my image.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist <pause while googling "zombie stack">

ЯegDwight

22:14

If David works on Sundays, that is.

tchrist

The animation made it look like David just lost a game of musical chairs.

It is Monday for David.

cornbread ninja

ha!

ЯegDwight

Reise nach Jerusalem.

tchrist

@FumbleFingers look to the northeast.

There is a horizontal stack, left to right.

The stipply boys are the zombies.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist oh - thot they were just "older"

tchrist

22:16

@ЯegDwight I’m afraid he’s past that by now. He was always the zealot.

They're zombies.

@DavidWallace So, how is tomorrow, anyway?

I was really afraid that sim and ff were nattering about the closed can’t-get-no-chicks question.

So glad they are not.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist I'll let that one run. I think it was peremptory, but time will tell. Anyway, didn't you just say I can't ping Reg? So how can you ping David?

WMD

Hello all.

ЯegDwight

High Weapons of Milk Degustation!

I mean, hi.

WMD

Hah!

tchrist

@FumbleFingers I have his number.

cornbread ninja

22:19

Walrus Mustache Degreaser?

tchrist

@FumbleFingers You cannot ping Reg because that is not his name.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist What? And DavidWallace is?

ЯegDwight

And once again nobody waits for @mr.shinyandnew安宇 with his crazy decronym skillz, or CDS for short.

tchrist

@FumbleFingers His name is \N{CYRILLIC CAPITAL LETTER YA}egDwight.

@ЯegDwight What, are you using your superpowers to summon nonidlers again?

ЯegDwight

@FumbleFingers no, David Wallace is not my name.

FumbleFingers

22:21

@tchrist oic. Right, but I assumed he'd be here anyway, and would main the transposition himself on reading it.

tchrist

s/main/make/

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight Yeah, yeah. I bet it's not Elton John either.

ЯegDwight

Oh I know who you're hiding from alright. Number 43.

WMD

And it's not tomorrow here yet, thanks @tchrist. Not till Tuesday.

FumbleFingers

Well, it's not yet midnight, so I guess I can have another glass of wine. brb...

tchrist

22:23

Who is Number 1?

WMD

I was wondering how long it would be until @simchona suggested taking the whole "man who can't get laid" thing to chat.

tchrist

Because a lot of men who can’t get laid hang out in chat?

ЯegDwight

@tchrist One George bloke named after a NW state.

tchrist

This is a Bushlet problem.

FumbleFingers

@WMD tchrist is dreading that. maybe he thinks the subject is boring, I don't know.

WMD

22:24

@tchrist Yeah, that's the one.

simchona

@WMD I brought it up in chat before I pinged you.

tchrist

Does sexting count?

WMD

@simchona Yes, the exact sequence of events was a little blurry to me. My mind has been elsewhere.

I will drop an appropriate hint later, if you really want to know.

tchrist

Magic.

WMD

Thank you.

ЯegDwight

22:27

3

Q: A word for someone who never had a mate because he/she has a high standard

Is there any better word than picky?

single-word-requests

FumbleFingers

OMG! - that word for a person concerned with spelling is really skidding around on the voting tallies! Someone touched a raw nerve, methinks!

ЯegDwight

See, that one has a because part.

13

Q: What do you call someone who chooses to stay single for life?

Not necessarily a virgin, but someone that has consciously chosen to stay single for life (and is content with that decision). Hopefully, there is a single word for it. Example: Ralph Nader UPDATE: Apparently, there isn't a word for this. So, is anyone able to make up a word for this? Criteria: ...

meaning single-word-requests nouns neologisms

Likewise.

WMD

@FumbleFingers The word I was thinking of was "mother".

simchona

There are really romantically sad people here, apparently, who ask the same question.

ЯegDwight

My point is kind of that it's not the same.

simchona

22:28

Oh. That. I'm watching tv instead of reading.

FumbleFingers

@simchona sad or not, they're entitled to access our extensive collective vocabulary

simchona

@FumbleFingers I never said anything on entitlement. My problem is context.

WMD

If I have a SWR, and they are frowned upon here, how else could I find an answer to my question? Particularly if I don't know many native English speakers.

ЯegDwight

If I have a question about baking, and they are frowned upon here, how else could I find an answer to my question? Particularly if I don't know many bakers.

simchona

I think having a context is really important. If you want a word for something, you must want to use it somehow.

WMD

22:31

@ЯegDwight Yes, but we have cooking.SE, which presumably is close enough. Are you suggesting the creation of SWR.SE? That's even stupider than ELL.

ЯegDwight

1. I am not suggesting that. 2. That has been suggested, OVER 9000 times, by other people.

Search the transcript.

And there has been a Lyrics proposal, a Quotes proposal, etc.

WMD

Oh, you're not serious? Oh you are.

ЯegDwight

A proposal not being stupid is not a prerequisite for anything.

This is the Internet.

FumbleFingers

SWD aren't inherently interesting, but I don't see they shoulds be debarred for that reason only

tchrist

Could you please rephrase that as its contrapositive?

ЯegDwight

22:33

Seven.

Anyway. SWRs are not even frowned upon here. It's what, our second most popular tag?

Unlike baking.

simchona

I never said I dislike all SWRs. I dislike SWRs without context.

ЯegDwight

But we had that nifty guidelines set in place, and now we better enforce them or something.

WMD

So, could we at least be consistent? SWRs are either OK, or they're not. If they're OK, then this "man who can't get laid one" seems perfectly legit.

ЯegDwight

@WMD it's ambiguous.

All we're asking for is clarification. It's in the OP's very own best interest.

WMD

Don't use "lack of context" or "lack of cited research" (thanks XVH) as an excuse for "I'm closing this because I don't like SWRs".

simchona

22:35

@WMD It's a valid close reason--NARQ.

WMD

@ЯegDwight You can ask for clarification without closing it.

tchrist

How about: it provokes unhealthy bickering and whingeing and veiled insults and stereotypes and general unhappiness and really long comment chains that make Certain Persons non-plussed, and lots of flags, which are a pain.

ЯegDwight

@WMD that is not the idea.

FumbleFingers

@simchona As you're well aware, not everyone agrees that additional context is necessary in every case - specifically it's irrelevant to the "can't get a woman" question.

ЯegDwight

@tchrist the two minutes are a bitch, aren't they.

tchrist

22:37

Enough.

KitFox

Oh. Hello there, @WMD.

FumbleFingers

hello kitfox

tchrist

Two minutes is a useful cut-off: it reminds me to take a breath.

WMD

@simchona But it IS a real question!

tchrist

hums pleasant lullabies

ЯegDwight

22:39

@WMD I think you're getting hung up on the name of the close reason. Which is why there's a longer explanation supplied with it.

FumbleFingers

@KitFox this is a sideline "hot potato" at the moment

ЯegDwight

I have no doubts whatsoever that for the OP that is a very serious, pressing, life-changing question.

tchrist

Wallflower.

WMD

Maybe, but I disagree with the explanation also. The only reason why it's difficult to answer is that nobody can think of a good answer.

ЯegDwight

All the more reasons for us to find the answer to it, rather than throw two dozen at the wall and hope that one sticks. Which it won't, because by that time the OP himself will be the most confused.

tchrist

22:40

Wallﬂower.

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight no need to get personal. whether there's a word or not doesn't justify having opinions on the guy who asked if there was

ЯegDwight

@FumbleFingers that's not how I mean it. At all.

WMD

@ЯegDwight What two dozen? Last I checked, only one person had supplied an answer. And it wasn't a great one.

ЯegDwight

So you want another 23 of that kind?

FumbleFingers

@ЯegDwight you mean somehow that last comment wasn't "tongue in cheek"?

ЯegDwight

22:41

Nope.

I just meant that for every OP, every question is always real and on-topic.

That's why they ask it in the first place.

WMD

@ЯegDwight I was about to say ,,, how does closing the question prevent having another 23 answers of that kind. Then I realised.

ЯegDwight

Well it doesn't. It just moves them to comments.

WMD

Ah, the futility of it all.

ЯegDwight

Anyway, I'm afraid that at -8 or what have you that particular question is not going anywhere. Better start from scratch.

WMD

OK, I'll go ask it again!

ЯegDwight

22:44

Ha.

I won't be around to travel the seven seas of fun with you.

Night all!

tchrist

Rosebud.

@WMD ˙ɹəʍoןɟןןɐM

ΜετάEd

@tchrist A wallflower is a person who's sidelined at a party or a dance. That's too specific to fit the purpose.

WMD

@tchrist I get it dude. Someone has replied to your comment.

tchrist

I’ve heard wallflower used for young spinsters.

Do we need a male spinster?

WMD

A wallflower is a shy person who doesn't make the effort to get involved in a conversation. They might not get laid a lot; but that happens to the opposite type of person too.

FumbleFingers

22:50

@tchrist it's dated, and as metaEd says, somewhat specific

ΜετάEd

A wallflower is someone who's sidelined, for whatever reason. It can be shyness; it can be unattractiveness, though, too.

tchrist

@FumbleFingers I disagree with the dated part.

Wallflowers are never dated.

This is the whole problem.

ΜετάEd

@tchrist :-p :-)

tchrist

You know, if it weren’t for saccades, I wouldn’t be able to see anything in this chat.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist I really cannot imagine my children using the word. I wouldn't often myself, these days.

WMD

22:52

Hey, must fly. See you all later, one way or another.

tchrist

Oh, so we’re looking for hipster teenslang?

KEWL!

ΜετάEd

In any case, wallflower is situational: it doesn't mean the person is incapable of getting a girlfriend; it means the person can't get started with someone at a party or a dance. It's the person who sits by the wall without any company.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist don't be daft. there's no sense in defending the slang of a generation that's even earlier than your own.

tchrist

I don’t know what that means.

I just don’t think that people asking for words is equivalent to people asking for words that somebody with a 2000-word vocabulary would know.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist you (sarcastically, I assume) appeared to disparage the search for modern teenagers' slang

tchrist

22:55

I know a lot of people would don’t use many words. If somebody wants to go to those people for their word suggestions, feel free. It’ll be a short visit.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist verbosity is not a virtue, even though it has many letters in common.

tchrist

Extolling the hypothetical virtues of an impoverished vocabulary has nothing to do with avoiding prattling on needlessly.

FumbleFingers

I once went to a job interview where they asked my to hand over some of my previously-written computer source code, so they could "analyse" it and see how many different "reserved words" I used. Supposedly a bigger number would mean I was a better programmer. Bloody cheek! I walked out and didn't bother to continue the interview.

tchrist

Tell that to RISC people.

FumbleFingers

...also, by what definition is anything typed here anything more than "prattling on needlessly"?

(as I recall, a few days ago you were positively lapping up extended pointless commentary on one of my posts)

tchrist

23:03

There are no close votes on the spelling-peever question. Curious.

No, I’m not going to do so.

But I will note that nobody every attends to the queues, and that it is less than an hour to go until tomorrow.

For example, if you have delete votes left, maybe there is some dead wood to clean out. We have lots of closed, ugly questions. Not all should be deleted, but many should.

And there are lots of questions sitting at 4 close votes, that maybe could use some finishing off.

Or go for the reopen or undelete. Whatever.

Cerberus

Hey Fumble!

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus hey!

Cerberus

How have you been fingering?

And whom?

FumbleFingers

am I a bit out of step here? I've never made any attempt to "use" all my daily quota of closevotes. Once in a blue moon I run out, but I've never thought "Ah! - Job well done today then!"

Cerberus

Same here.

ΜετάEd

23:11

@Cerberus One should finger root, of course.

Cerberus

@ΜετάEd Finger root? Is that a plant?

ΜετάEd

@tchrist By spelling-peever question you mean the request for how to describe a person who is disturbed by bad spelling?

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus Sadly, my man, I lack the necessary "significant other" for that at the moment. I run my fingers tenderly round the rim of my wineglass, making the mournful sound of an xxxxxxx (insert your suggestion for man without woman).

tchrist

@ΜετάEd Yes. Do I misunderstand?

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers Haha not that!

FumbleFingers

23:14

@Cerberus in the old days, "I finger no-one" just meant "I'm not a grass". Today, we simply have no word for it.

Cerberus

The wine makes up for a lot.

ΜετάEd

@tchrist In that case, the reason for no closevotes is that the question was closed, then enough people voted to reopen.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus yeah - if I drink enough I'll see two women who aren't here, rather than just one! (if you're gonna fantasize, might as well throw in a bit of "girl on girl" :)

tchrist

Oh,

ΜετάEd

@FumbleFingers You should check out the review page. There's a specific section that needs the attention of your closevotes until the backlog is gone.

Cerberus

23:16

@FumbleFingers Hmm never heard of that. Somehow it's not what I would expect.

@FumbleFingers Ahh I see.

Must be the reflection of your television set in the glass.

tchrist

Last night a saw upon the stair / A little man who was not there. / He was not there again today. / I wish I wish he’d go away.

ΜετάEd

@tchrist I will say I consider the question too vague / unclear (not really a question) and needs improving or I will closevote it on that basis. It has not yet gotten a closevote from me.

tchrist

The closevote and deletevote backlog never seems to improve.

FumbleFingers

@ΜετάEd actually that was the last time I ran out. I've done quite a few, but I don't like to get sucked into being even more "close-happy" than I already am.

ΜετάEd

@tchrist Are you kidding? It's down from hundreds to around 40 last I checked.

checks

I show it standing at 35.

And in 41 minutes I will have a new complement of closevotes and will bravely enter the fray again.

About half, I'd say, of the Closevote review tasks should be closevoted; the other half get a vote from me to "not" close.

tchrist

23:19

1

Q: What does tight feedback loop mean?

What does creating a tight feedback loop mean ? I often see it in context of emails: You can also get feedback on your personal attempts, creating a tight feedback loop.

meaning meaning-in-context

The one that that is being closed as a dupe of is deleted.

FumbleFingers

@ΜετάEd I don't recall that exercise happening before. Which suggests we've done a really good job of dealing with it promptly this time.

ΜετάEd

@FumbleFingers There have been recent changes to the review page.

Cerberus

@tchrist Now that is a tight feedback loop.

tchrist

A lot of these need just one more vote to finish them off.

ΜετάEd

@tchrist The majority of closevotes on that question are for NARQ.

@tchrist Let me get about 500 more rep and I will be able to look at those. That's a modtools page.

tchrist

23:22

Oh, sorry.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus haha - also a good candidate for "self-referential". I can't actually find the supposed deleted original - it always goes back to itself!

tchrist

@ΜετάEd But @FumbleFingers and @Cerberus surely have deletevotes left today they could use to off some of those.

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers Aww. I pity the poor OP.

FumbleFingers

@tchrist you want me to vote to close that one? but I don't even see a problem with it.

tchrist

@FumbleFingers No, I was talking about the delete queue.

But a feedback loop is GR, anyway.

Cerberus

23:25

@FumbleFingers Nor I.

> the path by which some of the output of a circuit, system, or device is returned to the input.

Not everyone may understand this.

I don't think it is GR.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus it's a metaphoric usage of "tight", and for all I know John Lawler (maestro of metaphor) might have something really interesting to say about it.

i mean "guru" of metaphor, but couldn't resist the alliteration.

Cerberus

Since when is Lawler a maestro of metaphor?

Yes, it is a metaphor; in any case, it is perhaps not something that can easily be looked up in a dictionary.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus I think JL's very knowledgeable about how metaphors are used, and how they fall into "families"

tchrist

Feedback loop (email)

A feedback loop (FBL), sometimes called a complaint feedback loop, is an inter-organizational form of feedback by which a Mailbox Provider (MP) forwards the complaints originating from their users to the sender's organizations. MPs can receive users' complaints by placing report spam buttons on their webmail pages, or in their email client, or via help desks. The message sender's organization, often an email service provider, has to come to an agreement with each MP from which they want to collect users' complaints. Feedback loops are one of the ways for reporting spam. Whether and how t...

ΜετάEd

"tight" and "feedback loop" are both general reference. At best the OP needs to be told what to look up.

tchrist

23:30

Feedback

Feedback is a process in which information about the past or the present influences the same phenomenon in the present or future. As part of a chain of cause-and-effect that forms a circuit or loop, the event is said to "feed back" into itself. Ramaprasad (1983) defines feedback generally as "information about the gap between the actual level and the reference level of a system parameter which is used to alter the gap in some way", emphasising that the information by itself is not feedback unless translated into action.Arkalgud Ramaprasad, "On The Definition of Feedback", Behavioral Sci...

ΜετάEd

"tight", "feedback loop", maybe "tight loop".

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers I don't remember his speaking of metaphors, or not extensively?

Arg, why do I let people drag me into arguments about what is and what isn't on topic? Me no want!

ΜετάEd

onelook.com offers plenty of information in response to "tight loop" and "feedback loop".

Cerberus

Vote if you like, but I won't.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus I think he does quite often. And the thing is he often reminds/enlightens me regarding more general principles about metaphors, even when he's addressing specific points.

Cerberus

23:32

Such as which?

And what categories are these?

tchrist

tick . . . tick . . . tick . . . tick . . . tick

ΜετάEd

That is, to your point @Cerberus, it is in fact easy to look up the answer to this question and answer it definitively with a link or two ... which is an explicit criterion for deleting GR.

Cerberus

"A link or two"...I don't know.

tchrist

0

Q: Is there vocabulary for my ex-spouse's new spouse?

With modern high divorce rates, a lot of people get married more than once in their lives. Saying "my ex-wife's new husband" is a bit awkward. Is there anything more graceful? I came across it in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqXGxLWPWMQ. They proposed "ex-in-law" and "outlaw", most...

single-word-requests

Cerberus

It should be one link to one dictionary, with a clear explanation that is complete and couldn't benefit from some more extensive explanation.

ΜετάEd

23:33

@Cerberus If you don't, I do. "general reference This question is too basic; it can be definitively and permanently answered by a single link to a standard internet reference source designed specifically to find that type of information."

tchrist

SWR for SWF

We don’t have to explain tight feedback loop.

ΜετάEd

@Cerberus and if you don't like that criterion because maybe two links would be more helpful (although just "feedback loop" would be sufficient), consider the other criterion: "this question is too basic".

Cerberus

I have no objection to your voting. Let each man make up his own mind!

tchrist

They can look those up.

And let each woman come to me for my opinion, eh? :)

Cerberus

@ΜετάEd I feel that the context warrants further explanation.

Arg, I'm arguing again.

FumbleFingers

23:35

@Cerberus the "wine goggles" are obscuring my normally razor-sharp vision of the past. trust me, he does.

Cerberus

I don't want to.

@FumbleFingers All right, do let me know if you see anything that would be of particular interest to me.

ΜετάEd

@Cerberus Right, and I feel the question is simply too basic. As you say, we'll just have to vote what we feel is right.

tchrist

►

Cerberus

@ΜετάEd Absolutely.

FumbleFingers

ΜετάEd

23:37

"Too basic" to me covers a lot of stuff. The way I think about "too basic" is, would the answer be interesting to an English expert? Interesting enough to answer with more than just a link or a sentence or two; interesting enough to actually write about? Interesting enough to read someone else's answer?

Because I think the site needs to serve its primary audience.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus Here's a recent one. I'll remember if I come across one of the more definitive ones, but that'll do for now. I can't search and drink and roll cigarettes and type here. If something's gotta give, JL's history has to be first up against the wall!

Cerberus

@tchrist Exactly like that! I knew that one.

@ΜετάEd The cross out 90 % of all questions that aren't closed! Because they're boring.

tchrist

Every time the ping here goes BOINK and I’m offscreen somewhere, I feel like I’ve just been given an involuntary getting-hit-on-the-head lesson.

FumbleFingers

@ΜετάEd I don't habitually disagree with your position. But the reality is there aren't that many "competent speakers" on this site in the first place. We need a certain amount of stuff from less competent speakers to provide "ballast".

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers All right, that is about metaphors.

tchrist

23:44

@FumbleFingers Are you confusing competent speaker with competent writer? Most native speakers are competent, albeit perhaps not articulate, let alone eloquent.

ΜετάEd

@FumbleFingers I actually see this very differently than you. If the site is to attract more true English experts, it needs to avoid being cluttered with mostly basic or irrelevant Q&A. Less is more.

In other words, look at the question from the point of view of what would best attract more experts to the site.

Cerberus

I think the only real condition I could live with would be, "would this be a good question in an academic environment?".

Any other criterion seems weak.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus Whatever. I respect the man. After all, he did send me a very useful textbook (that I still haven't fully digested), and he waived my offer to pay for at least the postage. A hero, in my book.

Cerberus

At the moment, we have not one, but dozens of weak criteria.

ΜετάEd

@Cerberus That is a great start. I think we should have basic academic expectations such as providing good facts and good arguments and good sources.

Cerberus

23:47

@FumbleFingers Really? That's nice of him. Written by the man himself?

@ΜετάEd That's not the same thing.

FumbleFingers

@ΜετάEd The problem is you're encroaching on linguistics.se there

ΜετάEd

@FumbleFingers There is definitely an overlap. That's because the site descriptions are written with an overlap. Absolutely nothing can be done about that short of redefining English.SE or Linguistics.SE.

Cerberus

If I were teaching English at some university, I would delete most questions on this site (even though many answers are indeed at an academic level).

@ΜετάEd Agreed, that is another problem.

Honestly, if we were only allowed to keep academic questions that were unfit for Linguistics and not about interpreting literature, we would be smaller than Linguistics even.

ΜετάEd

@Cerberus And I really have no problem with that. That's the direction the site should go, anyway, at least a little ways in that direction.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus no no. He sent me his "spare, but personally annotated" copy of McCawley's (definitive?) "Syntactic Phenomena of English", when I whined that I couldn't afford the £70+ that it would cost me to buy one.

ΜετάEd

23:50

All right, y'all keep haggling over it: I have no votes for another few minutes and now I am heading out for dinner.

Cerberus

@ΜετάEd But I want to either turn around radically, or...anything else seems senseless. Besides, I don't feel it would be proper to destroy almost our entire past.

ΜετάEd

Bye.

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers Oh, that's cool.

FumbleFingers

ciauo (or however you spell that! :)

Cerberus

@ΜετάEd Bye!

@FumbleFingers Ciao.

ΜετάEd

23:51

@Cerberus I wouldn't destroy the past. I would try to improve the reputation of the site in the present.

Cerberus

I think chau is something in Spanish.

ΜετάEd

"Ciao". It's Italian.

FumbleFingers

@Cerberus I won't say "I knew that", since obviously I didn't really. But I do "sorta".

Cerberus

@ΜετάEd But how would you make a radical shift without applying it to our old questions, our traditions, and our users?

ΜετάEd

And I'm having that for dinner. With Italians. Sicilians.

Okay, really "bye".

Cerberus

23:51

Because people came to this site for what it is.

Not for this entirely different thing that we want.

@FumbleFingers I know, I know.

You knew it when you saw it.

FumbleFingers

I should have stuck to my own vernacular and said "Cheerio", only I thought that would make me sound even older than I am!

Cerberus

Haha.

How about "cheers"?

FumbleFingers

oh - forgot that one

Cerberus

Oh, OK. It's only the commonest English word ever!

tchrist

@Cerberus You are correct: chau is Spanish for Italian ciao.

Cerberus

23:53

Like "like" for Americans.

@tchrist Right. But not nearly so common.

tchrist

@Cerberus Oh please!

FumbleFingers

once upon a time, "cheers" only meant "thanks for the drink". does it now mean "thanks for your time"? I dunno

Cerberus

I think it can mean anything these days.

FumbleFingers

cheers

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers How dare you!!

tchrist

23:55

ta

Cerberus

Oh.

Is that what it meant.

FumbleFingers

i think someone should ask "why do people say "Cheers" when they leave". Only it'll probably get closed straight off as uninteresting.

Cerberus

In Holland, we I think we say cheers only when thanking for a drink too.

@FumbleFingers Yes, probably.

FumbleFingers

people do say it when they leave nowadays. esp younger people

Cerberus

Or possibly for dinner as well.

@FumbleFingers Yeah, but I believe they also say it back at an earlier cheers?

Somebody told me so.

FumbleFingers

23:58

I think it's because they heard their parents say "Cheerio", but they don't like to say exactly that.

tchrist

"Cheerio" sounds like Wodehouse.

Not real.

Or at least, not real(ly) current.

Cerberus

@FumbleFingers Could be...that sounds old, even to me.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…