English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Andrew Leach

18:00

@tchrist That's been answered. The question isn't all bad, although it could be improved.

simchona

@tchrist It has answers, so deleting isn't a great option

tchrist

I see that now.

I don’t usually use many flags on ELU in a day.

cornbread ninja

Don't you get an obscene amount per day?

tchrist

Unlike SO, where I normally hit 50–60 per day.

What is obscene?

Yesterday I used 57 on SO, but ran out.

Andrew Leach

I only flagged one of the questions and trusted the mods to do the rest.

cornbread ninja

18:02

Compared to the what, 6 delete votes per day

tchrist

There was another not-an-answer.

cornbread ninja

Yeah, it's like 45 inform mod per day.

Andrew Leach

Obscene: likely to deprave or corrupt.

cornbread ninja

I am at six flags today. Whee!

tchrist

Well, you don’t get extra deletes for "good" deletions, as you do for flagging.

cornbread ninja

18:03

@tchrist o rly

@AndrewLeach absolute power corrupts absolutely.

user19161

@cornbreadninja Congrats! You will be the next deputy!

cornbread ninja

@WillHunting I have 137. Goin' for Marshal Cornbread Ninja.

user19161

@cornbreadninja Is that a very popular saying?

Andrew Leach

It was a factor in how I voted recently!

cornbread ninja

@WillHunting depends on your circles, I suppose. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dalberg-Acton,_1st_Baron_Acton

Andrew Leach

18:05

So it is actually worth flagging all the sockpuppet questions?

cornbread ninja

I couldn't have told you who said it until now.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja No, you get delete_votes = (rep < 10_000) ? 0 : 5 + int( (rep - 10_000) / 1_000 )).

cornbread ninja

0_0

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Only if you’re pre-Deputy. :)

SO flags are like shooting fish in a barrel:

0

A: Facing issues in eclipse ADB server didn't ACK

Thanks for the answer but I really want to know why it happens?? Cuz this is not the first time i am facing this problem last time I restarted my computer and it worked..

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Right. I'm currently 32/80. Perhaps Norton will help...

tchrist

18:08

Yes, probably. He’s been worth quite a few for me.

@AndrewLeach I’m at 99/500 on ELU, 408/500 on SO.

I get 40 IM flags on ELU and 55 no SO. But there are sometimes spam flags, too.

Yesterday I found porn in a deleted answer.

I didn’t flag that, I just edited it out.

It was rather odd. It was a high rep (>10k) user who put a PNG of some scantily clad breasty female in his answer, then deleted that answer himself.

Which means only 10k users see it. But it was still offensive.

user19161

@tchrist That's quite a large number of users. :-)

tchrist

On SO, yes.

Here, not so much.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Offence is cultural, to some extent. I have a couple of offensive flags, too, courtesy of Mr S.

tchrist

What, you were flagged offensive? On what offence?

user19161

@tchrist Actually, that was a joke since your sentence was polysemantic...

user19161

18:14

@AndrewLeach Did you criticize someone harshly? Well, being flagged is not a big deal, or going to jail for that matter.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist No: I have a couple of accepted offensive flags. He was offensive (about the most recent school shooting incident in the US, IIRC)

tchrist

Good. I didn’t see you as offensive.

Andrew Leach

I've been called confrontational. I apologised. Or apologized.

tchrist

Do you live in Oxford?

Andrew Leach

Me? No, Eastbourne.

tchrist

18:18

Then probably just apologised. :)

user19161

@AndrewLeach I am trying to switch to the Oxford spelling as well. :-)

Andrew Leach

I'm not. I don't like z. It doesn't fit visually.

tchrist

North American has -ize because we never switched to the French versions as Britain (outside of OUP) did.

But I rather hate paralyze, analyze, etc, and refuse to spell them that way.

Some people have trouble remembering which words like circumcise have to be -ise.

user19161

Interesting the Oxford spelling only applies to ize and not yze for etymological reasons.

tchrist

Or surprise, etc.

Cerberus

18:21

And v.v.

How does the room feel about using "now" as a conjunction?

> Could it be that something similar is happening to women now they have a greater footprint on the world?

tchrist

The only -yse vers are analyse autolyse breathalyse catalyse chemolyse clyse crayse dialyse glycolyse haemolyse heliochryse histolyse hydrolyse metanalyse paralyse photocatalyse photolyse plasmolyse proteolyse psychoanalyse pyrolyse Schallanalyse solvolyse sonolyse syncytiolyse thermolyse.

@Cerberus Insert that and it works. Otherwise, it fails.

Cerberus

So negatively.

tchrist

But -yse is still a productive suffix.

Cerberus

I tend to agree.

user19161

@tchrist Does it fail? It seems it can be omitted.

Cerberus

18:23

How is -yse a suffix??

tchrist

@Cerberus It’s a suffix for derivational morphology, not inflectional morphology.

Cerberus

How?

tchrist

@WillHunting No: @Cerb’s sentence does not scan right with just the now for now that.

Cerberus

I don't see how -yse could be a suffix.

tchrist

You’re thinking it’s -lyse then?

Cerberus

18:26

Thinking?

There are several options, like considering -lyse a productive suffix in English; but I don't see how -yse could be a suffix in any language...

tchrist

The way that -lysis nouns become verbs is by converting to -lyse verbs.

Cerberus

So?

tchrist

Sure looks like -lyse or -yse is a derivational suffix to me.

user19161

They should standardise world spelling of English.

user19161

It's bad enough that there are different languages.

Andrew Leach

18:31

Just as long as it's standardised as English!

user19161

Yes, if I take over the world I would make the world monolingual!

tchrist

@WillHunting You really expect every locality to ratify some NMBY spelling? Are you mad?

Andrew Leach

A megalomaniac is the only way it's going to happen.

We won't accept the misspellings of former colonies; and they won't accept the misspellings of ex-colonial powers.

tchrist

If I’m doing derivational morphology for the purpose of lemmatization, I promise you that I will have a -lyse, -lyze < -lysis ryle so I can find common a common lemma.

That makes those derivational suffixes.

People just need to accept that there can exist more than one correct/acceptable spelling.

Cerberus

@tchrist -Lyse, sure; but why do you keep bringing up -yse?

tchrist

18:35

Sigh.

Cerberus

There is no stem that you could attach -yse to—neither an English stem nor a Greek one.

user19161

@Cerberus How did you produce the dash?

Cerberus

At least that is how I feel about it.

tchrist

@Cerberus ʙᴇᴄᴀᴜꜱᴇ ᴡᴇ ʜᴀᴠᴇ ʙᴇᴇɴ ᴛᴀʟᴋɪɴɢ ᴀʙᴏᴜᴛ -ɪꜱᴇ ᴀɴᴅ -ʏᴢᴇ, ᴀɴᴅ ꜱᴏ -ʏꜱᴇ ɴᴀᴛᴜʀᴀʟʟʏ ꜰᴏʟʟᴏᴡꜱ ꜰʀᴏᴍ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ᴅɪꜱᴄᴜꜱꜱɪᴏɴ.

Cerberus

@WillHunting I press -==, and the m-dash automatically appears—but that is my Autohotkey script at work.

user19161

18:37

@tchrist NICE FONT.

tchrist

Shift + Option + "-" => EM DASH

user19161

@Cerberus The thing you cannot live without!

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't follow this argument at all, but never mind.

@WillHunting I absolutely cannot!

tchrist

@WillHunting ℕ𝕚𝕔𝕖 𝕗𝕠𝕟𝕥 𝙽𝚒𝚌𝚎 𝚏𝚘𝚗𝚝 𝖭𝗂𝖼𝖾 𝖿𝗈𝗇𝗍 𝘕𝘪𝘤𝘦 𝘧𝘰𝘯𝘵 𝗡𝗶𝗰𝗲 𝗳𝗼𝗻𝘁 𝙉𝙞𝙘𝙚 𝙛𝙤𝙣𝙩 𝒩𝒾𝒸𝑒 𝒻ℴ𝓃𝓉 𝑁𝑖𝑐𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑛𝑡 𝐍𝐢𝐜𝐞 𝐟𝐨𝐧𝐭 𝑵𝒊𝒄𝒆 𝒇𝒐𝒏𝒕 𝔑𝔦𝔠𝔢 𝔣𝔬𝔫𝔱 𝕹𝖎𝖈𝖊 𝖋𝖔𝖓𝖙

user19161

It seems that "with regards to" is a common error.

Andrew Leach

18:38

@WillHunting Might be. My browser doesn't cope with it.

And it's Alt-0151.

tchrist

Which is evil and wrong.

The Unicode code point is 0x2014.

Using any other number for it is fucking stupid.

Andrew Leach

I'd like to say it predates Unicode, but I'd probably be wrong.

tchrist

Unicode is the dominant predator in this ecosystem.

And typing four keystrokes instead of one is evil, too.

But what else would you expect from Microsoft but things that are evil, stupid, and wrong? I mean, really!

Andrew Leach

Ah. The Ribbon.

Anyway: dinner's ready...

tchrist

18:55

0

Q: person who is sentiment with words spelling

What we call a person who is sentiment with words speeling. I means who always like words without spelling mistake. Suppose someone mistyped his name or if he see a wrong spelled word on a salon shop then he notice it and became disturbed.

single-word-requests

Mitch

answer: anybody reading that question.

simchona

19:11

I voted to reopen this. The question is specific enough - we want a word that means "unlucky in love" or "involuntarily without a girlfriend". The OP specifically mentioned courtship, as opposed to sex, so that it's clear what's required. The whole point of the question is that it's NOT about WHY this person is in this state - so "unattractive", "socially awkward", "unlikable" and so on don't qualify as answers. And it is not going to result in a long list of possibilities - we haven't seen a great answer yet. It seems to me that questions like this one are exactly what the SWR tag is for. — David Wallace 32 mins ago

This is a horrible SWR with no context whatsoever. Please don't reopen it.

Cerberus

19:30

It's just a SWR...but you don't have to fear any reopen votes from me.

Mitch

19:44

It's a lowball question, better for urban dictionary, there are too many possible answers, the OP has an attitude, blah blah blah. THe answer is 'loser' anyway.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist nice typeface :D

tchrist

@Mitch Bingo.

Cerberus

Hey that's not nice.

Mitch

@WillHunting should it be 'with respect to'?

@Cerberus bingo, typeface, or loser?

Cerberus

The loser, mainly.

Mitch

19:49

Well, in the 'OP's world, it is probably what he would be using.

Cerberus

I wish I knew him...

Then again...

Mitch

The fascinating problem, is that the OP is probably a NNS and has that word in his language.

Cerberus

Could be.

Mitch

As to 'not nice', it is the concept that is not nice. And most of the locutions for it are, by association, not nice.

Cerberus

In a way.

Although this particular locution is perhaps even less nice than a more neutral word.

Mitch

19:52

whether you call them 'unattractive', 'loser', it still hurst to be called such a thing.

I think they are all non-neutral.

Cerberus

At least there are euphemisms.

Like single-and-looking.

Cameron

or "computer programmer"

Cerberus

Haha.

tchrist

> Sex pavidi lepores; pavidi sex postea coneys / Segniter accedunt, humiles et pignora pacis / Poscere suppliciter vultu gestuque videntur. / In vain ! nam nullam veniam dabit angrius hostis, / Sic coneys leporesque unam subiere ruinam. reference

Macaronic poetry.

The last line of the poem is: Birdis cum aëriis orta est, fishisque marinis.

Cerberus

Bleh.

I presume coneys are rabbits.

Mitch

19:59

'coney' is Old Latin for 'bunniculus'

tchrist

Ayup.

Another puzzle:

> "To hunt coneys, and to hawk at ouzels!" said the Regent, smiling; "for such are the sports of ladies and their followers."

I wonder what sort of birdies these ouzels might be?

That’s Sir Walter Scott, FWIW.

Cerberus

Weasels.

Most probably.

Or that is my guess.

Let's see what the OED says.

tchrist

Oh, I thought them oiseaux!

Cerberus

Hmm it is a bird.

tchrist

They’re robins!

Turdus is the genus of the American Robin.

I used to know the German for the version they have in Germany, but I forget it now.

Cerberus

20:05

It can be many kinds of birds, apparently.

A blackbird, even.

tchrist

It does not have a red breast there, but it acts and talks and looks just like an American Robin, but for being the same color all over.

Here blackbirds are icterids.

Cerberus

What?

We have neither icterids nor robins.

tchrist

Robins and bluebirds are thrushes.

Wanderdrossel

Cerberus

We call them readbreasties.

tchrist

No, that is a different bird.

European Robin

The European Robin (Erithacus rubecula), most commonly known in Anglophone Europe simply as the Robin, is a small insectivorous passerine bird that was formerly classed as a member of the thrush family (Turdidae), but is now considered to be a chat. Around 12.5–14.0 cm (5.0–5.5 in) in length, the male and female are similar in colouration, with an orange breast and face lined with grey, brown upperparts and a whitish belly. It is found across Europe, east to Western Siberia and south to North Africa; it is sedentary in most of its range except the far north. The term...

American Robin

The American Robin (Turdus migratorius) is a migratory songbird of the thrush family. It is named after the European Robin because of its reddish-orange breast, though the two species are not closely related, with the European robin belonging to the flycatcher family. The American Robin is widely distributed throughout North America, wintering south of Canada from Florida to central Mexico and along the Pacific Coast. It is the state bird of Connecticut, Michigan, and Wisconsin. It has seven subspecies, but only T. m. confinis in the southwest is particularly distinctive, with pale gray...

Wanderdrossel

Die Wanderdrossel (Turdus migratorius) ist eine Singvogelart aus der Familie der Drosseln (Turdidae). Sie ist nahezu auf dem gesamten nordamerikanischen Kontinent verbreitet, vielerorts etwa so häufig und allgegenwärtig wie in Europa die Amsel und ebenfalls viel in Siedlungsräumen zu finden. Sie zählt daher in den USA und Kanada zu den bekanntesten Vogelarten und wird dort, obwohl sie mit dem europäischen Rotkehlchen nicht näher verwandt ist, als American Robin (= amerikanisches Rotkehlchen), bzw. schlicht als the Robin bezeichnet. Die Ernährung der Wanderdrossel ist sehr vielseitig. Im...

Theta30

20:08

@Cerberus there are many robins here, they appear first in spring

Cerberus

According to Wiki, roodborst = European robin.

@Theta30 They're great.

tchrist

But that is not a Turdus!!!

The ouzels are Turdus birdus.

Cerberus

No doubt.

tchrist

Like a robin.

Icterid

Icterids make up a family (Icteridae) of small to medium-sized, often colorful passerine birds restricted to the New World. Most species have black as a predominant plumage color, often enlivened by yellow, orange or red. The family is extremely varied in size, shape, behavior and coloration. The name, meaning "jaundiced ones" (from the prominent yellow feathers of many species) comes from the Ancient Greek ikteros, through the Latin ictericus. This group includes the New World blackbirds, New World orioles, the Bobolink, meadowlarks, grackles, cowbirds, oropendolas and caciques. Despite...

How sad! You have no icterids!

Cerberus

Never seen that kind of bird.

tchrist

20:10

That pictures there is my local one: Bullock’s Oriole.

But blackbirds and cowbirds are icterids, too.

All our blackbirds are icterids, not turdids.

No meadowlarks either!? How sad and silent your meadows must be!

The orioles were rearing their young in June, very prominently in my backyard.

They have a very sweet song, too.

> Despite the similar names, the first groups are only distantly related to the Old World Blackbird (a thrush) or the Old World orioles.

Your blackbirds are thrushes; ours aren’t.

But some of our thrushes are bluebirds, which makes up for anything.

Cerberus

Somebody should rename your birds.

> Going forward, paper towels will cost 5 cents.

tchrist

We’ve already done so, thank you very much.

Cerberus

Is this monstrosity only becoming popular in England, or also elsewhere?

tchrist

What?

Cerberus

►

tchrist

20:15

Where do paper towels cost a nickel?

Oh, David!

Cerberus

"Going forward" instead of "from now on".

tchrist

Shave the beard like!

Cerberus

He's usually spot on.

tchrist

"Going forward" is a stupidity from Dilbertville.

I was oh-daviding his whiskers.

Notice he said forward but backwards.

Interesting unpairing.

Cerberus

But is it spreading?

@tchrist Where?

tchrist

20:19

Almost the last thing he says.

It is odd whether to put the -s on the end of -ward words or not.

It’s kind of haphazardly done, without any change in meaning, and varies even within the same speaker.

Hello diEcho! If such a word exisit, I think you can found it in "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder", which categorises mental illnesses into 13 group. If one "became disturbed" reading misspelled words, I suppose you are talking about a psychotic disorder catgorizable in the, so-called, 'cognitive disorder group' (where the normal cognitive function of the brain becomes limited)! Hence, you are searching for a technical word and it is off-topic here! I suggest to migrate this question elsewhere! -1 — Xavier Vidal Hernández 21 mins ago

Oh wow.

The blinded leading the blind.

But it is an amusing response.

Cerberus

Self-referring.

tchrist

Randomly wrong inflections.

Hasn’t he worn out the ! key yet?

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't hear it at all!

tchrist

Let me hunt for it.

Cerberus

Relistened to the second half of the video.

tchrist

20:24

1:46

> We may be going backwards to our doom.

Cerberus

Wait, I thought you meant he said "forward" but backwards, so "drawrof".

8 mins ago, by tchrist

Notice he said forward but backwards.

Oh, wait.

tchrist

He said forward without an -s, but he said backwards with one.

Cerberus

Now I get it.

tchrist

glares

Cerberus

Yes, there's little consistency.

I usually pick forwards for no particular reason.

tchrist

20:28

There is a discredited notion that the -s versions involve motion.

We will move forwards past the guard vs Please stand forward of the line.

Same with toward/towards.

But there really is nothing to it.

Cerberus

Yeah I have heard of that.

But I never could discover any progressing consistency in my own writing.

tchrist

Nor in anyone else’s, apparently. It seems to be a myth.

Cerberus

Yes.

> Elysia’s genome contains at least one algal gene, and while more could lie in wait, it’s unlikely to contain the hundreds necessary to sustain a functional chloroplast.

Algal, that's a funny word.

tchrist

It’s a quasi-stellar object.

Cerberus

If you say so.

tchrist

20:32

Algol is a star.

So algal is quasi-stellar.

And hence, a quasar.

What is odd about algal?

Take an alga, add -l, mix and serve.

Cerberus

It sounds funny.

> “If you imagine a person who had to get all of their energy from the sun, they’d have to be very still. Then, they’d need a high surface area, with leafy protrusions. At that point, the person’s a tree.”

This too.

cornbread ninja

geez

-4

A: A word for a person concerned with spelling

There are more general terms, such as pedant - one who pays undue attention to ... formal rules, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a specific word for the type of person OP describes. The problem is it's unlikely anyone would have that particular personality quirk in isolation. Anyone who's a "sti...

tchrist

Yeah, more peeving.

Cerberus

> a high surface area

High? Why not large?

cornbread ninja

"an editor"

tchrist

20:34

Maybe towards the sky?

They are being sloppy.

Cerberus

I don't think so.

tchrist

Where is that from?

Cerberus

BBC.

tchrist

Ug.

cornbread ninja

high amount

Cerberus

20:35

They must mean a large surface area.

cornbread ninja

large amount

Cerberus

Or just a large surface.

@cornbreadninja Yeah, with some nouns both work.

tchrist

Better.

But the person is a tree? Really? That sounds nutty.

I bet algal sounds funny because of the hard /g/, not found in algae.

Cerberus

It's not that.

It's probably having al.al as a word.

tchrist

@cornbreadninja I’m surprised there are no close votes from people disliking the question. People often invent reasons to close questions they don’t care for.

Cerberus

20:38

bbc.com/future/story/20120906-will-humans-ever-photosynthesise

This article is pretty fun for pop science.

Although most of that stuff even I already know.

tchrist

ǁ alaˈla.

Etymology: Dor. Gr. ἁλαλά a loud shout, hence a war-cry.

A shout used by the ancient Greeks in joining battle; a (Greek) battle-cry.

1675 Hobbes Odyss. 299 ― More than half with alalaes up start.
Hobbes Iliad 214 ― With alalaes the mighty armies close.

Is that one weird, too?

Cerberus

Of course.

tchrist

Reminds me of ululations.

Cerberus

Probably the same onomatopoeic origin.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja wow -4 already. I mean dowvoted for an actually relevant answer.

Cerberus

20:40

I don't think I will ever be able to fix my Greek fonts in FF.

Somehow it refuses to recognise that it should pick the same font for all Greek letters.

tchrist

@Cerberus I bet so.

@Cerberus Gimme a second, and I will tell you why that it is.

Meanwhile, consider these words: adrad algal edged exlex ictic indin ongon onion unnun unrun upsup

They all have the same "pattern" as algal.

Mitch

only th 'onion' one is recognizable.

tchrist

Except onion.

Mitch

well, algal too

tchrist

I forgot the vowel/consonant thing.

Cerberus

20:42

I'm sure all those are perfectly normal words for you.

tchrist

Or the not-the-same-of.

edged is normal.

ictic is fine.

Mitch

what's wrong with a vowel in the middle

edged too

tchrist

@Mitch It does not fit the pattern.

Cerberus

I just said that I found algal a funny word.

tchrist

Pattern is V1-C1-C2-V1-C1.

Cerberus

20:43

@tchrist It is probably unfixable.

Because there is no way to instruct FF explicitly as to which fonts it should use where, is there?

tchrist

The problem with your font is that your default font only has the normal "pi font" characters.

cornbread ninja

@tchrist there are only a few reasons. :)

tchrist

There are about 5 of them.

Cerberus

Well, I think I'm using the site's font.

cornbread ninja

Wow, this caramel-and-chocolate-covered apple is tasty.

tchrist

20:44

And even so, you probably have a monotonic Greek loaded.

Cerberus

That is, it tells me to use my Arial font.

tchrist

Turtles!

Arial sucks.

Cerberus

But how could I change Arial?

tchrist

Lie.

I don’t know firefox.

But I lie about fonts all the time.

Cerberus

Then how is this text displayed for you, in what font?

Perhaps it is not Arial, I don't know.

It looks like Arial, but it's not exactly the same I think.

Oh, and this problem also happens with Times New Roman, I think.

tchrist

20:46

Times New Roman has only monotonic Greek, not polytonic.

Cerberus

I was wrong about TNR.

tchrist

Cerberus

Ah, so you have it too.

tchrist

I must not be seeing what you are referring to.

Cerberus

?

You have two different a's too.

The aspirated one seems to be a serifed font.

The others are very straight.

This is your picture.

Clearly two different a's.

tchrist

20:53

Better?

But I don’t see that those are "clearly two separate a's".

Just a sec and I’ll tell you how I did that. Must check the setting.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, now they are all in a third font, much better.

@tchrist How can you not see that?

Look at the vertical stalk.

It is bent in the first a, straight in the others.

tchrist

Hold on.

I can see that yours has two different a's, yes.

I hadn’t zoomed enough.

Cerberus

Secondly, the ehm "body line" of the a hits the stalk at different angles.

tchrist

I am getting aliasing effects going on.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yours had the same problem as mine.

tchrist

20:56

It’s very hard to see.

Please, moment.

Cerberus

@tchrist Just zoom in to max.

This is you're a's zoomed in as an image (obviously).

tchrist

The first alpha has a dasia, the last one has a tonos.

Yes, I did the max zoom and saw it.

That is terribly shitty looking though.

Look at my other one, for example.

Cerberus

@tchrist What do you mean?

I just zoomed in on your image.

What else am I supposed to do?

tchrist

The one where I said "better?".

5 mins ago, by tchrist

Cerberus

Yes, that is much better.

archimedes.fas.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/…

What do you see here?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…