English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

01:24

Test ❶: Can you modify brick or plastic with an adjective that applies only to them not to some noun that follows them? When you have a fake brick house, the house is real but the brick is fake, so the brick can only be an attributive noun there. Test ❷: Can you use these prospective adjectives predicatively, not just attributively? If those are predicate adjectives, then the bridge is steel, the spoon is plastic, the house is brick “should” (necessary ʙᴜᴛ ɴᴏᴛ sufficient) all read ok. Yet the bridge is stainless steel, the spoon is crumbling plastic, the house is fake brick disproves. — tchrist ♦ 1 min ago

> Russia is running out of precision guided munitions and it is more likely to rely on so-called dumb bombs and artillery, a senior Pentagon official said on Thursday, Reuters reports. Earlier, we reported that three US officials claimed Russia is suffering high failure rates as high as 60% for some of its precision-guided missiles while its forces have taken heavy casualties and are low on supplies.

Curious that the American military intelligence community should have ready access to those figures.

I'm not sure I'd put too much faith in their figures. After all, aren't these the same folks who predicted that Afghanistan's government would endure for at least weeks or months and that Ukraine's government would collapse in a matter of days? Two strikes there, guys.

Cerberus

@tchrist I think these are interesting tests, but it remains to be argued why those particular tests should be decisive.

@tchrist They say that morale is a very different category, very hard to assess.

And it's not quantitative.

But, yes, it would be interesting to hear what they based this 60% on.

How many years?

Can you tell me in Roman numerals?

@MattE.Эллен My standard first word:

@CowperKettle Quite possibly.

And perhaps the Afghan army was more integrated into society then.

@CowperKettle Yes.

And I think the military secret service of Pakistan is aligned with fundamentalist Muslims in Afghanistan.

tchrist

01:43

The ISI created the Taliban after focus-group testing.

Or so it has been said.

Having a "friendly" backyard to retreat to doesn't count for nothing.

But if your government and military forces decamp to another country, is the first one still yours?

Charles de Gaulle would doubtless have answered in the affirmative.

@CowperKettle In what fashion were they left in the lurch?

I can't imagine what would be bad enough to drive them to become brutal criminals, but the toll of war is blessedly beyond my imagination.

That's a bad thing?

Oh this was a volunteer force, wasn't it?

SO the professional army got downsized when they withdrew from that conflict.

Following its dissolution, or prior to that?

Or as part of the USSR itself disbanding.

As had we.

I suppose that armies are dreadfully expensive to maintain.

At my previous job I worked with a former KGB intelligence officer who was long stationed in the DDR of what is now the eastern part of Germany. He was remarkably smart, and remarkably calm.

Cerberus

When large numbers of (young) men leave an army, without a good alternative to spend their days on, many will turn to crime.

tchrist

@CowperKettle Not because of perceived military failures?

@Cerberus Perhaps Russia needed a GI Bill?

Cerberus

Who?

tchrist

Fresh enlisted men are one thing, but officers should have command skills that can be used outside of the military.

Cerberus

Possible.

If there are jobs and not a hopeless situation.

tchrist

01:57

G.I. Bill

The Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944, commonly known as the G.I. Bill, was a law that provided a range of benefits for some of the returning World War II veterans (commonly referred to as G.I.s). The original G.I. Bill expired in 1956, but the term "G.I. Bill" is still used to refer to programs created to assist some of the U.S. military veterans. It was largely designed and passed through Congress in 1944 in a bipartisan effort led by the American Legion who wanted to reward practically all wartime veterans. Since the First World War the Legion had been in the forefront of lobbying Congress...

Cerberus

The Islamic State was formed by dismissed official from the Iraqi government, I believe. Many from the secret service.

@tchrist The situation in America was not hopeless poverty!

@CowperKettle Would be nice if Ukraine managed to conquer Moscow!

Well, a very bloody war, rather.

tchrist

@CowperKettle WOW, I never heard of that!

The Great Depression was definitely problematic.

Putting a lot of people to work under government auspices was pretty important. The Wobblies might have won otherwise.

If you're saying this isn't a new problem, it's easy to draw plentiful examples of the same from the late Roman Republic. :)

R.I.P.

I'm sure that if I were a student of Chinese history, I would know of examples there was well. But I mostly only know Western history.

Cerberus

I believe many Afghan soldiers did not receive their wages.

Despite all the money sent their way.

tchrist

Alexander was forced to expansive conquest just to pay for everything.

Cerberus

The Romans understood that you needed to give veterans some land, to give them something to do other than using weapons.

tchrist

02:08

Caesar had to deal with the mutiny of Legion X, who all really just wanted to be paid.

And retire.

Cerberus

They didn't always do it properly!

And they needed continuous expansion to pay and land the soldiers.

tchrist

See Caesar's "land reforms".

Cerberus

Sounds like people imitating a Hollywood film...

tchrist

Odd.

Cerberus

Haha.

I meant what they said.

M.A.R.

05:09

@CowperKettle the bootlickers are all full of brilliant ideas recently, aren't they?

Vikas

05:24

@Cerberus I'm seeing that trend here too. Slowly but surely.

Good morning / evening

Xanne

@CowperKettle He forgot Romania.

@Cowperkettle Shoigu hasn’t been seen for a couple of weeks, according to CNN. He’s MIA.

So the photo of him in church may be a few weeks old, maybe even before the invasion.

M.A.R.

05:46

@CowperKettle long live barbari

We here are not pansies and don't wrap our bread in anything

Well, I'm still fertile, at least

At least I think so

In the pharmacy, people may ask for a single item and still expect it to be put in a plastic paper. It's mind bogglingly wasteful

Dude, you don't need packaging for a single blister of ibuprofen

Well, don't have those here, but checks out. Pharmacists have to deal with an astonishing amount of bullshit from everyone, because the arrogance of medical doctors is considered a low level enemy and not enough of a nuisance

It's the price for being on the front line I suppose.

Xanne

In California a bag (plastic or paper) costs 25 cents. Pay, or bring your own. Ibuprofen comes in plastic bottles—I have seen small amounts (maybe 10) in tins, but that’s rare.

M.A.R.

06:02

. . . Which is why I'm trying to avoid retail like the plague. I will have to do some, but I'd prefer if the adverb doesn't change to 'a lot'

Xanne

Spray ‘n pray.

@CowperKettle Not happy. Just curious. I agree replacements can go down hill.

I have not seen that in a U.S. hospital.

Xanne

07:23

@CowperKettle Yes. Always.

Not a cabinet. A waiting room; then corridors with examining rooms and rooms for various tests, depending on the specialty.

Xanne

07:42

@CowperKettle I think cabinet = office.

samayo

13:43

Hello, which one is preferable:
* Dear Sir/Madame
* Dear Sir or Madame

It's a letter for citizenship application

Robusto supports Ukraine

@samayo Citizenship in what country?

samayo

14:06

@RobustosupportsUkraine Switzerland

We are required to write a Letter of Motivation

Letter is complete, but I spotted this issue today.

Robusto supports Ukraine

15:23

@samayo And the letter is supposed to be in English?

samayo

It is allowed @RobustosupportsUkraine

Robusto supports Ukraine

If in English, the slightly more formal version would be "Dear Sir or Madam" (not Madame, which is French, as in "M'sieur ou Madame").

samayo

15:42

Ah, thank you very much

Robusto supports Ukraine

No problem.

The Rather Pathetic Economy of Russia

►

Lambie

17:57

@CowperKettle I do worry about you and don't even know you or where you are. That's for the best at this point. :) I keep thinking that it would be funny to create a YOUTUBE thing where all the dictators are made fun of, crudely and rudely. It's childish but relieves anxiety.

Vikas

19:13

@RobustosupportsUkraine Putin is confused what he actually wants to do.

Cerberus

19:44

> Rusland gaat zich voortaan richten op de „bevrijding” van de Donbas-regio in het oosten van Oekraïne nu de „eerste fase van de operatie is voltooid”. Dat heeft de Russische generaal Sergej Roedskoj vrijdag gezegd, aldus staatspersbureau RIA. De uitspraken van Roedskoj wijzen er mogelijk op dat Russische troepen zich elders in Oekraïne zullen terugtrekken.

nrc.nl/nieuws/2022/03/25/oekraineblog-25-maart-a4104945

If Russian troops should retreat to the Donbas, that would be great news.

user 726941

In war, retreat is defeat.

Hello btw and nice duplicate post :-)

Cerberus

Heh you mean these chat lines?

Hello!

user 726941

Yes, the chat lines.

Some people call them channels.

Cerberus

Indeed, it would seem Putin understands he cannot conquer Ukraine and will stop trying, at least for the moment.

It would be HUGE if he stopped shelling cities now.

M.A.R.

20:02

@user726941 Entities that possess three heads get a free pass on the whole duplicate thing

Talk about redundancy

user 726941

Repetition is the mother of redundancy.

Dave

21:02

Please ignore If this isn't the place to ask questions that don't really fit on the site...

I'm thinking about the word "deployment" -- to me this term is "static" it refers to the more or less static disposition of the entity in question. In reading the dictionary definitions, it seems equally plausible to apply to the "dyanmic" aspect of making the change from the inital to the final disposition. "The troops depolyed to the from the ship". Supposed the troops started getting off the ship and moving to shore at 12:00. Suppose that they're not all on the beach until 1:00. In this sit…

For me, in the example, I think of the "deployment" as the latter, i.e. referring to the state that the troops are on the beach.

Robusto supports Ukraine

@Dave A deployment is the placing of people or things somewhere, which may be a fixed position or a staging area. It is not the time period, just as a walk is not a time period. Deployments and walks and the like all take time, but they are not time periods themselves.

Deployment may refer to the act of deploying, or the finished result of such an act.

Cerberus

@RobustosupportsUkraine I think this is the hear of the matter: Dave had doubts about the former.

@Dave Deployment began at noon.

Later: his deployment in Africa was a difficult time for him.

So both the process and the resulting situation can be described using the same word.

It is often the case with words of action (nomina actions): originally, they described the process/action, but many have acquired its result as a secondary meaning.

Tertiary or other secondary meanings are also possible.

tchrist

21:51

I've just poked my head into the news now that works winding down only to find reports that not only have the Russians lost yet another general in combat raising the dead-general count to seven, they're actually alleged of having fragged one of their own brigade commanders by deliberately running the coronel over with their own side's tank! That's sure got to hurt morale.

Also some allegations that Ukraine now has more tanks than it started the war with.

Because the Russians are so bad at taking care of their own, and the Ukrainian soldiers know how to drive Russian tanks.

All of this may be untrue. Fog of war, and all.

Cerberus

It may be true.

Very hard to tell, indeed.

Robusto supports Ukraine

@tchrist Yeah, I read that about a week ago. Very weird.

Cerberus

Do people ever say kolonel rather than kernel?

Mitch

22:30

@tchrist probably hurt the commander more!

haha dark humor

@tchrist Also, we aren't hearing any (or very little) news from the Russian press, because the whole Ukraine thing is just a 'special military operation' don't look here move along. And also everybody else in the world (except Belarus) is rooting for the underdog and overplaying all the 'feel good haha you russian idiot' stories

tchrist

@Cerberus No.

@Mitch The overplayment is why I said that all of this may be untrue.

Mitch

@tchrist oh yeah I'm just adding what I think are some of the details

ie in addition to fog of war there's just no war reporting on the Russian side (none official).

Also there's the eternal fog of internet

Cerberus

@Mitch Not quite everybody.

India and China have about 2.4 billion inhabitants together?

Mitch

people are passing around memes like they're...

like they're

Cerberus

And how about Indonesia, Nigeria, Pakistan?

Mitch

22:36

like they're really really oopular

tchrist

Oöpular, you meant.

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh. as official statements for their respective governments, I think they have just not said anything one way or the other.

Very strange for India. China is doing their thing, what's best for them.

@tchrist OMG I can't even see what I'm typing

but if I did write that (and I certainly did) I mean oopular. Like, a lot of people saying 'oops'

tchrist

@Mitch Leave 太平天 out of this.

Mitch

@Cerberus You might as well ask at this point what about South Sudan, Brazil, and some other third highly populated but I haven't heard from country.

@tchrist Do you talk to 你妈的 with that mouth?

tchrist

@Mitch Is this a Volvo joke?

Mitch

22:48

@tchrist nah it's more of a this kind of joke:

Cerberus

@Mitch In summary, many countries do not really support the underdog.

This one wasn't easy. In fact, I started this yesterday but lost my progress, so my number of guesses would have been higher.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…