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00:03
@tchrist I forgot to mention August Strindberg, June Allyson, the March Hare, and July Johnson (from Lonesome Dove). In fact, there are more naming months than there are non-naming ones.
@RobustosupportsUkraine Those are all people named after months, not months named after people.
I understand the difference. I was going in a different direction.
The only ones who had months named for them were the first two Caesars.
Yup.
00:58
Wikipedia on Sieges has this gem: “Disease was another effective siege weapon, although the attackers were often as vulnerable as the defenders. In some instances, catapults or similar weapons were used to fling diseased animals over city walls in an early example of biological warfare.”
@Lawrence I think the end of the nominating period ends the time when you can enter answers to questions—another 15 hours or so. Brief is better than nothing!
01:52
@Xanne The Mongols would fling corpses that had died from the plague over besieged city walls.
 
2 hours later…
03:36
@MattE.Эллен Wow, this Semantle no. 50 was difficult: i.imgur.com/kB7YTJS.png
Did you find it?
 
2 hours later…
05:25
Nice.
Mir.
@Lawrence Please do edit and complete your nomination if you can! Less-active users that don't know who's who (i.e. the majority of voters) are surely less likely to vote for someone without a proper pitch and questionnaire answers. I'm rooting for you (I think; still need to check everyone's questionnaire answers and re-check your 2016 answers) and don't want you to lose because of that.
 
4 hours later…
09:36
@Cerberus I had to resort to scouring thesaurus.com until I got there. It was very tough
Today I got into the top 100 in 8, but now I can't get beyond that guess.
 
4 hours later…
13:59
@CowperKettle Do you take a statin?
Some people genetically have high cholesterol, and statins are prescribed for them.
14:18
@CowperKettle Ah, I was premature. You already discussed statins.
Today's Worldle is another get-out-Google-Maps-and-search kind of puzzle.
@MattE.Эллен Yes, you can!
@Randal'Thor That took way longer than it should, but it's done.
@Randal'Thor Thanks for suggesting to link to my 2016 questionnaire. It was very thoughtful of you.
15:02
@Lawrence I'm glad you did it!
Will read later.
@Cerberus The amount of time spent drafting that nomination twice tells me that moderators need to be careful to only moderate in moderation. Immoderate moderation might feel like smotheration.
A plane crashed in China:( Planes (and trains too) scare me the most even when it is considered safest mode. I have not travel experience in planes as of now.
15:21
@Cerberus I'm at 995, and I have no idea what the word could be
16:02
The Z makes half a swastika, so I guess that makes them half-assed Nazis.
Skewed Swastika ;)
@Lawrence Haha exactly.
@MattE.Эллен Hmm your 995th guess, or are you at 995/1000 already?
@Cerberus 995/1000
OK.
I'm still at 0/1000.
that was my 185th guess, I'm at guess 430 now
16:06
After 26 guesses.
Impressive!
?
my 8th guess was 979/1000.
@RobustosupportsUkraine I had never.heard of that island before
I think they just made it up
Also I thought is was 'countries'
That ain't no country
@Cerberus oh, for you!
sorry, I misunderstood
16:10
Whenever I see a shape that looks like an island I know we're in for some tough sledding.
@Cerberus I feel like I'm missing something obvious
@MattE.Эллен Ah, sorry: your 430 guesses are impressive. I was still nowhere after 26 guesses.
Hmmm.
Try many random things?
With semantle I've given up on worrying about getting 'the' word. But it's still fun trying to figure out what the similarity measure really is.
Let me ask you guys this: Is the game really rewarding when you get it right? Does a light shine down from the heavens for you?
16:11
@RobustosupportsUkraine Yeah I just try a few countries to find the general region, until I'm out of guesses.
And if I get past 990/1000 then I'm pretty happy
@RobustosupportsUkraine Yes, it is like listening to a priest.
@RobustosupportsUkraine absolutely. I get a pot of gold and shares in Apple
I found it way too frustrating. I don't want a puzzle that takes all day for me to come up empty.
@RobustosupportsUkraine not exactly a big spot light but it feels about as good as finishing a crosswords
16:13
Hmm it really doesn't take that long!
It can indeed be very frustrating.
@MattE.Эллен I got a rock.
@Mitch an expensive rock?
I don't get what associations you're supposed to make. Do they change from puzzle to puzzle? Or is there an overarching relationship that applies to all puzzles?
@MattE.Эллен painted with gold lip gloss
the relation space is fixed, as far as I know
David Turner hasn't said he's updated it
16:15
Woohoo 128/1000, on my 58th guess.
@RobustosupportsUkraine it's not a logic puzzle where everything as a discrete path. Instead they distances are all calculated using a set (but unknown to us) data set.
I've sold harder conundrums than those, I suppose, but at least I was getting paid when I did.
@MattE.Эллен also it's not a very good rock
@Mitch All God's chillun got a rock.
16:18
@Mitch doesn't take commands? always begging for food?
60 = 352/1000.
I also don't like puzzles. Is it because I don't like Maths and logical stuff?
if you get the answer before me, you need to tell me 352
I generally don't like puzzles either.
But I guess I do like fuzzy puzzles.
@MattE.Эллен Haha unlikely.
I like world puzzles, like the Jumble anagram puzzle, to get my brain going in the morning.
16:22
78 → 719/1000.
you must be coming at it from a different angle to me
Hmm angle, I could try that.
Do we have no overlap?
not yet
surprisingly
Hmm.
Now at 120 and no closer.
17:16
What means "so long" in conversation?
Does it mean like long time no see?
@Vikas It means "good-bye."
@Vikas It means "goodbye". Like in the show "The Sound of Music" - one of the songs has the line "So long, fare well, auf wiedersehen, goodbye".
Oh. It's opposite of what I had guessed.
What did you guess?
17:26
Is it because "so long" quite means we have been chatting/talking for so long so now we should go, good bye? (I mean the literal meaning)
@Lawrence I thought it something similar to "Long time no see". That is what we say sometimes when we start a conversation after a long time.
@RobustosupportsUkraine Ok. Has it any reason or it is just used like this without any specific meaning?
I wouldn't think about it too hard. It's just a farewell.
17:29
Hmm, no autoboxing on etymonline? Let me try it on its own line.
Nope, no autoboxing.
@RobustosupportsUkraine Ok. I think many people will get confused if I wrote "so long" instead of "Good bye" or "See ya".
I hadn't seen it in use before
Some people will get confused. Others will just get it.
I think non natives will get confused (not all of course)
17:31
There are many other ways to end a conversation.
But not all non-natives will be confused by the same thing. If you can speak English well, just use what is appropriate. If they don't understand, then they should ask for explanation. If they don't, then they choose to remain confused.
@RobustosupportsUkraine I have heard sayonara more often. I think it's very common.
It's common in Japan.
I read it's used by some English speakers too.
> It's a Japanese word that has been a popular informal word in English since the late 1800s.
English borrows from all over.
Many English speakers understand it. But so what? It's an exotic way of saying good-bye, that's all. It's not as common as "See ya" or "Bye" or many others.
17:34
That is also true
@RobustosupportsUkraine Oh yeah. Exotic.
English speakers also say "Ciao" and "Wiedersehen." It comes off as cutesy, as does sayounara.
Apparently, "orange" comes from French, "catchup/catsup" comes from Chinese, "dad" comes from Welsh, etc. Sometimes it almost seems like there isn't much English that came from English.
That's the wrong way to look at it.
@Lawrence Oh that way some Indian words are also included in English.
@RobustosupportsUkraine Do you know Chinese?
17:39
@RobustosupportsUkraine Ah. I never really focused on your avatar.
Good
@RobustosupportsUkraine Hmm, how about that? "Wrong" came from Old English. etymonline.com/word/…
If you blow up a balloon, it doesn't matter where the air came from. It is currently an inflated balloon.
:D
@Vikas That's true. I suppose it comes from being a trade language. After awhile, if something is hard to say in English - or if something is known by a local term - it's easy for foreign words to become assimilated into the trade language.
At any stage of a language's development it has taken things from other languages, and will take things from other languages in the future. It is a growing thing, always.
It will also shed words that are no longer useful.
And it will change words to mean different things.
You can't think of English as a finished product. It has never been that, and never will be.
17:44
So it might look like a very different language maybe 1000 years later?
It won't take a thousand years.
It is different in many ways from when I was a child.
200?
I mean significant change
If you were to go to sleep and wake up in 50 years there are many things you wouldn't understand.
@Vikas What is a "significant change"? That is not a useful metric.
@MattE.Эллен Ahh so many words.
@RobustosupportsUkraine I think it matters
17:49
@RobustosupportsUkraine Some cultures seem to adopt foreign words more readily than others. Japanese and Chinese have some similarities, even to the extent that there is some overlap in their pictorial scripts. But foreign words are routinely transliterated into Japanese sounds (phonemes?), whereas Chinese tend to co-opt the meaning but use Chinese words. Take "online" for example. Japanese has オンライン, which sounds like "online", whereas Chinese has 在线, which sounds nothing like "online" but means "on string".
@RobustosupportsUkraine Like the difference between Dutch and English
@Vikas More like 20 these days. "Upload", "googling", etc are all new. Even "hash tag" now refers to the "#" sign instead of meaning a "tag" that starts with a "hash".
@Lawrence Yeah I think technology has a good role in it?
Yup. Whenever there's a new thing, it tends to attract new words.
There are usually some connections to old words, though. For example, "web" as in "world wide web" probably comes from the concept of "net" as in "internet", which in turn came from "inter-network[ing]" - connected networks of computers. Even "computer" during the world wars meant a person who computed things. These days, we're more likely to call the people "number crunchers" and reserve "computer" for machines.
Anyway, I'm signing off. Ciao! :)
@MattE.Эллен Woe, 742/1000 completely changed the meanings of all preceding words for me.
992/1000 now!
1000!
All my words from 413 up are somewhat within the same semantic field as 1000.
But it's not an easy word to come up with.
18:03
@Vikas that's a 1500 to 2000 year difference
And there's less change now because of institutionalized teaching and mass media
Exactly.
@Mitch I would believe that.
See ya Lawrence
There's obviously a lot of new vocab from technology but grammar and phonology are going to be pretty conservative from now on because of mass media
There's a scifi show called 'the expanse' and the thousands of people populating the asteroids and space stations have developed their own variety of English (~300 yrs from now?)
And the more I think about it... It's just not going to happen like that because every individual on the internet is going to populate their mother tongue... Local small languages will fall away but the big ones will ossify (in my prediction)
Anyway we'll all be dead then so we won't have much to say
I mean I will, but you all won't
1) I'm -from- the future (I'm just taking a vacation in the past. Necause
The past is a different country
2) I forgot what #2 was
18:28
Oh yeah it was
Nope different timeline
recalculating lightcone
Bleep bloop bleep
Oh yeah #2 you all won't have much to say because I'll be talking too much and you guys are all too polite to interrupt
I mean I'll be very thankful for that
Sincerely
I mean thanks guys
19:14
@Lawrence No worries! I (think I) remember that your questionnaire answers were what impressed me last time round.
Haven't read anyone's questionnaire answers this year yet, but there's still plenty of time to vote.
45 minutes left for nominations ...
Won't you run yourself?
19:27
Moi?
I'm not active enough on ELU, I think. Not super familiar with the community here.
My main qualification would be the 6 years of mod experience on other sites, which is a fine qualification for modding a small beta site (I almost ran in the Arts & Crafts election last week) but not really enough to take on a big site with its own history and particular issues like ELU.
Ah, OK.
Yes, it would be better to be active on the site.
4.5k rep ain't much, for a site this big.
I think it should rather be about participation than points!
But yeah.
I do pop in to do the review queues every so often.
Got a couple of Steward badges, I think, and over 1000 helpful flags.
But I lack the in-depth knowledge to post Yargsish answers here (most of my answers probably could've been posted by any native speaker with a good grasp of grammatical rules), and I'm usually too scared to post questions here.
That issue, of the perceived unfriendliness of ELU to askers, is something I'll bear in mind when deciding how to vote. Not sure if there's anything in the questionnaire about it.
19:46
@Randal'Thor Admirable!
@Randal'Thor Yeah, that is also the most important issue to me.
There is one question about critical comments.
@Lawrence Japanese imports boatloads of foreign words (外来語) every day. The trouble is, the way they are transcribed and pronounced makes them nearly unintelligible speakers of the language they came from.
@Cerberus Hmm, yes, 3 and to a lesser extent 4 seem relevant.
@Mitch I disagree. First of all, what is "mass media"? Is it TV and radio? Because those have faded. Is it the Internet? Because those have amped up the change. Memes alone are introducing vagaries of grammar that seem to be popular, and popularity is what causes words and spellings and even grammar to change.
Look at the answer to a recent question of mine:
9
Q: How to analyze the trope "because NOUN" grammatically

Robusto supports UkraineIn recent years it has become something of a trope to respond to a question with the stark reply "because noun". For example, Q. Why can't we burn fossil fuels indefinitely? A. Because science. [Short for something like "because science has shown this leads to catastrophic climate change.] or ...

Linguistics Professor Lawler says this in a comment:
I think, in the end, it's the obvious uselessness of the of in the because of NP construction. So many other prepositions don't need auxiliaries, why should because? And in fact, it becomes easier with practice, even when you're old like me. At any moment, "current fashionableness" can become Grammar. — John Lawler Jan 28 at 20:18
And in his answer:
> Because seems to be in the process of changing from a requisite conjunction to an optional preposition. As usual, this involves different people trying out different constructions at different times and in different contexts to hear how they like it. Enough people now appear to be liking it that official notice has been taken. Because was the 2013 Word of the Year, as determined by the American Dialect Society and the Linguistic Society of America at their annual meeting.
The idea is that people's speech can no longer grow apart based on location, because we all read the same texts, to some degree. Much more so than in 1800. And that connectedness 'pulls' hasty changes in some groups back to the average eventually.
I understand the idea. I just think the engine for change will be the rapid churning of mass communications. Locality is not the issue anymore.
And there are "localities" on the internet as well. Not everyone is involved in every domain. In fact, it could be argued that there are even more localities now than there were in, say, England in the 14th century.
19:57
We shall see.
Exactly. And see we shall.
I think localities are no longer isolated.
I think they're just as isolated as they were when broadcast communications prevailed.
Broadcast communications—radio, TV, newsprint, etc.—were a one-to-many paradigm. Now we have a many-to-many paradigm. That means there is a force multiplier at work here. I do think that means more change, not less.
When I was growing up, the "standard" American accent was promulgated by the evening news. One person reading the news, millions of viewers taking it in.
That's not the case anymore.
 
1 hour later…
21:22
@Cerberus damn it I have 742, 992 and 995 and I can't get 1000
what is 352/1000?
@Randal'Thor I imagine ELU is that annoying boss with spawns that heals itself for modders
@MattE.Эллен So close!
Let me check.
@MattE.Эллен I don't have 995, but 992 is not super close.
It is certainly in the same semantic field, though.
it's driving me crazy
21:37
Heh.
92, 93, and 95 seem closely related. I would say they are more closely related to each other than to 1000.
989 is a bit farther off still.
ok ok, that's good to know
It is an uncommon word, I would say.
and 742 is more closely related?
Or at least less common than 89 or 92 or 95.
@MattE.Эллен Hmm not really.
The word is abstract, but slightly more specific than your top 3.
742 should be near 966 and 970, perhaps.
So you have the semantic field right. Your approach is also the same as mine, I would say.
There are just so many words in this semantic field, it's hard to guess a particular one.
XD I'm dying here
21:42
Haha sorry!
I do think 995 is probably closest. But still not super close.
I gave in an tried all related words in thesaurus.com for 995, and nothing
Yeah, I would NOT expect it to be close enough to 995 to turn up in a thesaurus.
It is more specific than 995.
Which helps you not at all haha.
it helps a little :D
21:46
I would say, try more random, less common words in the same semantic field.
I'm struggling to think
What other, abstract things are used, happen, or are part of the setting?
it's not "Socratic method", I know that much
Haha.
Maybe a bit less specific.
And: the word is not about HOW you teach.
Or not really.
21:50
I think 719 may have helped me, do you have it?
OK.
You have so much!
This is mostly a matter of luck.
@Cerberus yeah, but I anything I got after 995 I have disregarded, so this is helpful
@MattE.Эллен Ah, yeah, I can understand why you would do that, because 992, 993, and 995 seem so closely related that you think you're almost there.
21:53
But I would say that is misleading.
And I have just tried a word that ought to be high, but it is cold.
Oh, do you have 914?
911 and 919
but nothing in between
I don't know what 919 is.
Ah, OK.
All in the right semantic field. But no more helpful than most other words.
What is taught?
weeee! got it :D
21:57
Congratulations!!
thanks for your help
I knew you would!
What did the trick?
Just random guesses?
thesaurus.com and 719
lol
Haha.
Nice.
It is just a somewhat uncommon word that you wouldn't think of first, right?
And there could be 10,000 words all near the centre of the semantic field.
21:59
Yeah, they only have 996 as the next closest word.
95 words in the top 1000 before I got the answer
Wow.
I feel like I should have guessed it sooner. nevermind
I had only 22.
I don't know, there are just too many words it could have been.
your Latin based brain gave you the edge ;)
22:01
How would you ever get to the correct one if not with pure luck?
@MattE.Эллен That could be it...
I also suspect the word is slightly less common in English than in Dutch?
I don't hear it so much now
but I'm not at school now, so
Ah, OK.
I solved Semantle #51 in 558 guesses. My first guess had a similarity of 5.23. My first word in the top 1000 was at guess #8. My penultimate guess had a similarity of 11.12. semantle.novalis.org
oop! posting the answer in chat there XD
558.
yeah
I try a lot of random words
22:06
I'm proud of you.
I do that too, at some point.
thanks :D
It didn't take quite that long yesterday
Yeah, this one was difficult.
Though I'm not sure that is Semantle's fault.
when I got 979 at guess #8 I thought it would be easy
1) mass media is becoming (or really, already) the internet now rather than just Evening news/newspapers and Time magazine.
2) yes they've amped up the change but I believe only in vocab and really only in adding vocab (I don't think other vocab is falling away or being replaced)
3) All your points about specific grammar or whatever changes are all happening and important, but it is my semi-educated opinion that those changes will not be enough to alter te language significantly (I think they will act like temporary slang than new permanent changes)
Haha wow, 979 at 8.
22:08
yeah, that's thanks to the he/she split
@Mitch I suspect many will be temporary as well.
But media is, really?
@RobustosupportsUkraine Yes I considered that. There are certainly 'localities' (or rather somewhat closed groups) but they are more content based (eg ELU chat or FOX news comment threads) rather than linguistically closed communities. I don't think the neo-Nazi user groups will come up with different grammar than the recipes and cooking blogs (excpet for vocab as already noted)
@Cerberus its a mass noun for me
blackholes that read tea leaves are mass mediums
You are more likely to say things like 'The team are practicing before the game'... I would never say that.
Because UK proximity
Proxima Britannia
good night, y'all
22:13
@Mitch Isn't!
@MattE.Эллен Goedenacht.
It isn't a mass noun for me?
@M.A.R. I know what some of those words mean, but not in that context.
@MattE.Эллен Shab bekhair
@Mitch Huh, wasn't expecting to see that language suddenly.
Happy Nowruz.
@Randal'Thor oh right (I said it entirely because ELU)
@M.A.R. Eide Nowruz Mobarak!
@Randal'Thor Do you celebrate?
 
1 hour later…
23:35
@Mitch None of that addresses the many-to-many point I made. It looks like you're just reiterating what you said earlier.
@Mitch It's not just neo-Nazi user groups we're talking about. There are different subcultures that flock together., of all kinds. I have no idea what TikTok mores are like because I never go there.
In any case, the fact is, things are already changing. I've seen it in my life. If you live long enough, you'll see it in yours. The pace of change is increasing, in language and elsewhere.

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