English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Mitch

16:02

@tchrist The anesthesia is not going under all the way, it's just 'conscious sedation' - one drug to relieve pain, and another drug to a) relax you and b) also helps you forget the little pain that you do have.

So you're not 'out', you're awake the whole time, but you won't remember a thing about it.

which makes me wonder... why aren't they worried about the safety of the country while the president is asleep?

I mean that's eight hours while the bad guys can sneak up on us and we're unprotected.

Does the VP just stay up all night?

Hairi

@Mitch I guess so 🤔 . No?

Where are you guyes from?

Mitch

@Hairi Northeast US. Yourself?

Hairi

Ive always wanted to visit USA - Chicago, Washington

Im from Bulgaria

No one around speaks English and ive been searching for places like this where I can practice with English-speaking people like you
Prefereably native

Im lucky that I found this chat

I work for a company whose clients are Americans (NY) and sometime I exchange emails with them.
Often I hesitate upon constructing my sentences and I ask here for help

Luckaly they are very understanding people and tolerate my mistakes

CowperKettle

16:44

Two guys arrested in Yekaterinburg for making forged medical waiver certificates permitting the owner to avoid covid vaccination. itsmycity.ru/2021-11-19/…

They face a jail term of 2 years.

They produced them on the cheap, just 1000 rubles per certificate.

Even the state-owned polling service a couple days ago said that in a poll some 18% of Russians said they will positively avoid vaccination at all cost.

About 30% said they would avoid it, but a 12%-cent part said that under severe threats from the Govt they will, after all, take the shot. The 18%-cent part said that nobody will ever force them to vaccinate. Making up a total of 30%.

Independent poll services provide figures of 40% to 45%. It's closer to 40% in Yekaterinburg, and maybe closer to 45% for the region as a whole, with rural people more set against the vaccine.

Mitch

17:55

@Hairi Those are good cities to visit, also NYC. Disneyworld is also great if you have kids, but then Paris has Eurodisney which I think is almost identical and also Paris is right there!

Bulgaria seems interesting... what is the food like?

Mitch

18:12

Or rather, since the food we eat everyday is just, well, food, then what is you favorite food that you grew up with?

CowperKettle

Boiled potato with sour cream. Fried potato. Fried eggs. Borsht. Pierogi. Pelmeni. Buckwheet kasha.

A lot of potato in my childhood. It was easy to get.

What was hard to get in Siberia was fresh dairy.

And we ate a lot of sausage. Fresh good-quality meat was a luxury. Sausage was a luxury, but Siberia was a rich region due to oil, and one could get sausage.

I don't remember when I last ate sausage. After I started counting calories in the 2000s, sausage automatically classifies in my brain as bad food, and I just don't eat it.

Maybe school-grade kids should be routinely trained to maintain a food diary? An idea for which they would lynch me, of course, since it would further overload an overloaded curriculum.

I hated the school curriculum so much that 10 years passed before I picked up a book by Dostoyevsky and actually read it.

Irkutsk Union of Bibliophiles has been added to Russia's registry of "foreign agents"

LOL

This was done on the Union's own initiative, since it has been receiving money from some Western foundations.

But still it feels as weird as in the USSR.

And another organization titled "Fair Elections" was also branded as foreign agent in today's decision.

CowperKettle

18:49

Studies have shown that during waking hours, DNA damage accumulates in neurons.

O soft embalmer of the DNA
Closing with gentle fingers and benign
My (something) eyes (something) from the light
(Something) in forgetfulness divine.

They say that it's from a movie titled Midsommar

> The former head of Tennessee’s vaccine rollout, Dr Michelle Fiscus and her husband, have been forced out of their home after facing threats and taunts.

Political divides over mask and vaccine mandates have only deepened since the Covid vaccine became widely available.

tchrist

@Mitch What they actually end up using varies a good bit, and they do have to be careful with the elderly. It's usually a blend of an opiate and a benzo like fentanyl and versed, but sometimes will be other things depending on the patient, like ketamine if they're worried about lowering cardiopulmonary function too much. You can bring someone back up out of most of these quickly with paired antagonists. But fast benzos are usually going to cause some degree of anterograde amnesia.

Which is when you forget things in the future instead of just in the past.

CowperKettle

PEBKAC

Noun: PEBKAC

(humorous, acronym) Problem exists between keyboard and chair. See PEBCAK.

Bulgaria is where the Russian alphabet was actually invented, in monasteries located in Bulgaria.

Preslav Literary School

The Preslav Literary School (Bulgarian: Преславска книжовна школа), also known as the '''Pliska Literary School''' or '''Pliska-Preslav Literary school''' was the first literary school in the medieval Bulgarian Empire. It was established by Boris I in 886 in Bulgaria's capital, Pliska. In 893, Simeon I moved the seat of the school from the First Bulgarian capital Pliska to the new capital, Preslav (meaning of the name in Bulgarian language - "very glorious"). Preslav was captured and burnt by the Byzantine Emperor John I Tzimisces in the year 972 in the aftermath of Sviatoslav's invasion of Bulgaria...

Mitch

20:02

@tchrist wait... bleep bloop bleep ... time traveling memory eraser activated ... bloop bleep ...

What were we about to talk about?

@CowperKettle I've tried buckwheat kasha... I don't share the good memories you have of it.

But to be fair, I was the one who made it, and it's more of a sign of my culinary abilities more than anything.

For me it's two things: spaghetti and hamburgers.

man those were great

I'm not so enthusiastic about hamburgers anymore, I think it must have just been one really good hamburger and that's what I remember.

But spaghetti is still the best thing ever.

@CowperKettle Sausage and any preserved meats... just not good for you.

Taste great but not good for you.

@tchrist i think versed and propofol son't have a half life or have a very short half life or something like that such that as soon as they stop administering the drip the action stops right away and you can start to form memories.

tchrist

> Midazolam is a sedative drug with amnesic properties, and previous studies have shown that anterograde, not retrograde amnesia, can be demonstrated with midazolam. Amnesia is a condition in which memory is disturbed or lost.

Mitch

I have heard that some people, like some surgeons and lawyers and CEO types have opted for the no-sedation option because they want to be able to go to work immediately after the procedure without the half day of grogginess that could impair performance

tchrist

Versed is Midazolam.

Mitch

@tchrist I hate that. just stick with one name. What is this some Russian novel?

tchrist

Which you wouldn't know if you were well versed in this substance.

The big V is the brand name.

The little m is the generic name.

Mitch

20:14

@tchrist I bet there is some company out there that just comes up with drug names by portmanteauing all the little features with an AI

tchrist

You.
Have.
No.
I
dea.

How crazy that arena is.

Mitch

I've heard )I've been hearing a lot these days) that the -number- of new drugs is dropping considerably...all the drug manufacturing companies are not really innovating there.

I'd say it's FDA approval difficulty and regulations and expensive and long RCTs ...

and I'd probably be right

but I think I'd rather have those regulations than drugs that cure cancer but make your head explode.

Isn't there a drug about to come out that is a universal flu vaccine?

Ah.. that's my retrograde amnesia... Mars on the cusp of Taurus and Ares...

a quick chat search does not show me mentioning 'universal flu vaccine'. Instead of retrograde amnesia I'm storing memories of things that didn't happen.

retrograde antemnesia?

or imaging things that won't happen - anterograde promnesia

or hallucinations - dysmnesia

@tchrist milk of amnesia

that's what they call it

for fun

tchrist

@Mitch Smooth move, exlax.

Mitch

because it's white?

tchrist

Holy cow.

Mitch

20:26

So I'm having trouble coming up with anything else that I liked to eat as a kid.

and I don't think it is memory.

tchrist

milk duds

Mitch

I don't think the food was bad

just immemorable

tchrist

immarmoreal halls are cheap

Mitch

but it''s funny because all the good things I remember are... well, there's no traditional 'American food'. Except maybe Thanksgiving stuff

@tchrist at school the big auditorium/cafeteria was called 'Memorial Hall'. I have no idea for who. In fact never even thought it had any relevance to veterans or anything like that.

Fish Filet from McDonald's... with fries... that you could dip in the excess tartar sauce on the sandwich... mmm

ahh... scrambled eggs and tuna! yum

which as kids we slowly convinced mom to just mix it all together (instead some scrambled eggs on one side of the plate and tuna on the other, just have them all mixed together).

but now that I think of it, that doesn't sound absolutely great. Not awful at all, but just not great.

OK, three things that I forgot I was nostalgic for way after my childhood but I'd forgotten already:

Brunswick stew

mmm

fish roe

mmmm

Gwaltney bacon

mmmmm

other bacon is fine sure but -Gwaltney- bacon, that was something else.

To be clear...it is not good for you

the fish row is OK, my memory of it was much better than the reality (still, not bad, just not as good as the memory).

The reality of Gwaltney bacon is actually better than the memory

You may say to yourself "Hey Mitch, isn't that just your memory telling you that?"

And then I'd tell myself, not out loud of course because it wouldn't be fair since you didn't say it out loud, but I'd say to myself "Screw that guy, he hasn't had Gwaltney bacon. He has no idea"

I'd probably say out loud "Oh, you should really try some Gwaltney bacon. I mean regular bacon is pretty good right? Gwaltney bacon is bacon that is better than regular bacon. I think you'd like it."

That's probably what I'd say.

If my mouth weren't not full of yummy crunchy bacon

Brunswick stew... fond memories of burning the roof of my mouth on a spoonful from a plastic cup ladled from a vat at some winter parade.

Brunswick stew is... well it's really good from a can too

what's in it?

I don't know, some good stuff.

it's a tomato based soup with potatoes and ... a bunch of other stuff. Lima beans, but I remove those because they are nasty.

But to make it taste just right... a teaspoon of Worcestershire sauce.

Why you may ask?

In order to teach children how to pronounce 'Worcestershire sauce' and if they're good kids how to spell it.

In other food memories, I spent one childhood summer making myself sandwiches for lunch in the toaster with Lender's frozen bagels (cinnamon raisin) and Oscar Meyer bologna (also chosen for it's orthographic eccentricity).

I realize that that last confession may have mentioned out -numerous- gastronomic felonies.

@CowperKettle But you've convinced me, I am going to go boil some potatoes now.

tchrist

23:00

@Mitch Don't all colleges have something like a Memorial Hall? In grade school it was just the auditorium qua lunch room.

Or sometimes Memorial Union.

Cerberus

What is a Memorial Hall?

And why is it capitalised?

tchrist

Was trying to figure that one out myself.

3 hours ago, by Mitch

@tchrist at school the big auditorium/cafeteria was called 'Memorial Hall'. I have no idea for who. In fact never even thought it had any relevance to veterans or anything like that.

Cerberus

Veterans?

Of a war?

Our schools typically have aulae.

tchrist

There was an American Legion Hall in my hometown, which was a place for veterans to hang out, drunk, play games.

Cerberus

Universities, I'm not sure.

tchrist

23:03

But that wasn't something for grade school.

Cerberus

Was it part of the university?

tchrist

No, not at all.

Cerberus

OK.

tchrist

But we do have those here in Boulder, and we had them at Madison. Let me find the right names.

Cerberus

"Those"?

tchrist

23:04

Boulder campus has a "University Memorial Center".

it's the "student union", etc.

Cerberus

Ah.

tchrist

Same at Madison.

Cerberus

Huh.

tchrist

There will be dining halls there, and much more.

Cerberus

A memorial center is a student union?

tchrist

23:06

Apparently? I see a pattern of two. Not sure if it's safe to extrapolate.

union.wisc.edu/visit/memorial-union

colorado.edu/umc

It just "made sense" when I was newly come here from there in my 20s. I never gave it a thought.

They're supposed to be centers for "student life".

> Welcome home to Memorial Union, one of the most beloved and historic destinations on UW-Madison’s campus. Treasured by generations, Memorial Union is a place to come to socialize, relax, study and be nourished. The Memorial Union offers a variety of social and educational activities for UW students, faculty, staff, Wisconsin Union Members, and the Madison community.

Opened on October 5, 1928, the Memorial Union sits on the shores of Lake Mendota between Helen C. White Library and the Armory (Red Gym). This building is most recognized for its classic architecture and bright green, orange …

> Known as the campus “living room,” thousands of people visit the University Memorial Center (UMC) every day to grab a bite to eat, enjoy free entertainment, shop the retail stores, study with free wireless internet or just hang out.

With a wide variety of student services and student group offices in the building and active student governance, the UMC is an exciting center for activism and community interaction. As a designated multicultural center, we celebrate diversity through food, dance, art, music and the free exchange of ideas. Welcome to your UMC!

I guess I just thought this was standard.

Cerberus

What are they remembering there?

What dead?

tchrist

I've forgotten. :)

Cerberus

Bad memorialler.

tchrist

In Arizona it is specifically called out as being named for the fallen veternans.

> ASU chose the name "Memorial Union" to serve as a living memorial for those who have courageously served our country in the military services. In remembrance of the building's first director, Cecelia Scoular, the study lounge located on the main level was named in her honor.

Cerberus

Why?

Why would you put a monument for veterans at a university?

tchrist

23:12

Obviously one thinks of In Memoriam. Maybe there are plaques there with names on them.

Cerberus

And why make it a hall or center, rather than a statue or stone or other work of art?

tchrist

I can't see the reason for the Madison one's naming.

> University of Wisconsin-Madison President Charles Van Hise introduced plans for a union on campus in 1904. President Van Hise believed that such an organization would enrich “the communal life of instructors and students in work, in play, and in social relations.” In 1907, the Wisconsin Union was formed to serve as the all-campus programming board, and construction of our first building, known as the Memorial Union, began in 1925.

> Memorial Union - University of North Dakotahttps://und.edu › docs › memorial_union_historyPDF
by J Leppo — The Memorial Student Union was dedicated on May 1 8, 1951, as a memorial to the University's World War II dead. The construction of the union.

> The Memorial Student Union was dedicated on May 1 8, 1951, as a
memorial to the University's World War II dead. The construction of the union
facility provided, for the first time in UNO's history, the University community
with one central place to meet, to obtain daily services and amenities, and to
sponsor activities. Since that time, the Memorial Student Union has undergone
two name changes (University Center - 1964; UNO Memorial Union - 1978), two
major additions (east addition - 1964; west addition - 1983), and numerous

Cerberus

I also don't understand why they would connect a union to a hall.

tchrist

I don't thing "union" means anything to do with organized labor.

Not in this instance.

Cerberus

Here the many student associations are put wherever there is some space left.

tchrist

23:15

YES all the big state schools have memorial unions.

Memorial Union (University of Missouri)

Memorial Union serves as a community center for the University of Missouri by providing meeting rooms, technology centers, dining facilities, and playing host to many special events. The facility was built in three stages between 1923 and 1963. It was designed by Jamieson and Spearl, which designed most of the campus buildings built between 1902 and the 1950s. == History == Walter Miller's 1919 commencement address called for a memorial to the University's lost soldiers in World War I. Fund raising began in 1921 for a "Memorial Union" and a "Memorial Stadium" to be constructed at the University...

> The exterior of the main wing was designed by University Architect Arthur Peabody. Opened October 5, 1928,[1] the facility is operated by the Wisconsin Union, a membership organization. Porter Butts, the first director, called it a "college union" because it combines the characteristics of a student union ("student activity center" in other countries) and a student government ("students' union" in other countries) in an organization that brings together students, faculty, and members of the surrounding community.

So these are student centers.

Memorial Union (Wisconsin)

The Memorial Union is located on the shore of Lake Mendota on the campus of the University of Wisconsin–Madison in Madison, Wisconsin. On the lakeshore to the north of the building is the Terrace, a popular outdoor space overlooking Lake Mendota. It has gained a reputation as one of the most beautiful student centers on a university campus. == History == The exterior of the main wing was designed by University Architect Arthur Peabody. Opened October 5, 1928, the facility is operated by the Wisconsin Union, a membership organization. Porter Butts, the first director, called it a "college union...

Always., It's what that means in this context.

imu.indiana.edu/about/history.html

> The Indiana Memorial Union’s rich history dates back to the early twentieth century. In 1909, tensions between freshmen and sophomores and between fraternity members and unaffiliated students at Indiana University reached a breaking point, leading to physical altercations on campus. Dismayed by the uncivil campus climate, an IU student named John Whittenberger decided to form a student organization that would encourage unity and collegiality among students.

With the help of IU’s president, William Lowe Bryan, and members of the faculty—Whittenberger founded the Indiana Union on December …

Cerberus

It looks nice.

@tchrist What are student centers?

tchrist

Oh, Wisconsin's is stunning. That's why it has been registered on the national registry of something or other.

> History of Student Unions on Campus
At the University of Minnesota the “Student Union Idea” began in the 1900s. The first gathering place for students was Shevlin Hall where women organized a meeting space for themselves and the male students were granted space in Nicholson Hall to house the beginnings of the “Minnesota Union”. The Farm Union and Village Union developed later to serve growing communities across campus. These buildings have since then been re-purposed or closed. Today Coffman Memorial Union, the St. Paul Student Center and the West Bank Skyway all operate as the current, …

@Cerberus Um, what it says?

Centers for students.

Cerberus

Center is a very abstract word.

I would understand 'student center' as the university itself?

tchrist

> In 1936, University of Minnesota President Lotus Delta Coffman stated: “Someday, the University of Minnesota will have a student union as the center of its social life.” Construction for the student union Coffman had imagined began in 1939, a year after his death. Coffman Memorial Union opened its doors in time for classes in fall 1940. The building featured a ballroom that a accommodated up to 1,200 dancers, a two-story main lounge, a bowling alley with sixteen lanes, billiards, a barber and beauty shop, among many other amenities. Coffman Memorial Union underwent its first major renovat…

It's a place for students to get together and have fun, relax, eat, drink, dance. Other things.

Get hair cuts.

That's why it's a center for students.

Cerberus

Oh, is it because those universities are away from cities?

So they are like villages for students living there, at the university?

tchrist

23:21

Cities?

Not sure what you mean by villages. There are areas where students commonly live. That way they can go to school.

There do of course exist communal living facilities, such as the student dorms and the Greek fraternities. But most of it is not that.

It's right there near campus so students can get up in the morning and just walk or bike a block or three to classes.

Any school has a student district. They often rent out houses and pack lots in each.

Boulder has several such districts. So does Madison.

And yes, there are jokes about it being its own world. Village if you would.

> An article in Time magazine claimed that the new union: "Rivaled the Hanging Gardens of Babylon." Exaggerations aside, Coffman did offer many amenities, but the Minnesota Alumni Weekly was quick to point out that there were unions across the United States that cost more, despite having smaller student bodies. According to the Alumni Weekly, the most important part of the union was not that it included many new facilities, but that having one large building was, “a symbol of University unification." Although Coffman did include separate men’s and women’s lounges, most of the spaces were op…

They're social spaces, these Memorial Unions.

For students, faculty, and staff. However, it's mostly for students. The faculty tend to have their own facilities of this or that sort. Sometimes those are in the complex of buildings composing the Memorial Union, but often they are somewhere...quieter.

"Coffman was not meant to be just a social space, but a place that would help shape students’ development and prepare them to be contributing members of society."

That's all from the Minnesota one. sua.umn.edu/about/history

Oh yeah, they would show movies for free, with popcorn.

> When individuals who had attended the University of Minnesota in the 1980s were asked what they most remembered about Coffman Memorial Union, television was a common theme. As in previous decades (Coffman’s first television was purchased in 1948), during the 1980s Coffman’s television brought students together, as people did not carry their own personal screens with them everywhere they went.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yes, I meant, many people must live there, as a kind of village, if the university is away from larger towns or cities, so it makes sense for them to need things that you'd find in a village, like shops and barbers.

I have never been to a campus-like university.

tchrist

No, it's not "away" from them.

It's part of them.

The commercial shops are ones that deliberately cater to the students that live there. They have many needs.

Here, like this one:

University Hill, Boulder

The Hill, a neighborhood in Boulder, Colorado, lies directly west of the University of Colorado campus. The fraternities and sororities associated with CU are located on The Hill as are several establishments associated with the social lives of its students. It is a mixed residential neighborhood with substantial private student housing. It was the center of counterculture activity in Boulder during the 1960s and 70s.Boulder was a dry town, no liquor sales allowed. However, 3.2% beer was allowed, which 18 year olds could purchase. The Sink, founded in 1923, and Tulagi's, founded in the 1940s, were...

Bars, etc.

It's all the regular commercial stuff people need. Remember that students have to, and love to, walk everywhere.

You can't drive to class.

University campuses are VERY large.

> Academic staff 3,547[3]
Students 35,528 (fall 2019)[4]
Undergraduates 29,624 (fall 2019)[4]
Postgraduates 5,904 (fall 2019)[4]
Location Boulder, Colorado, United States
Coordinates: 40°0′24″N 105°16′2″W
Campus Midsize City,[5] 786 acres (3.18 km2)

Wisconsin's is bigger. It counts as a large city in its own right.

> Academic staff 2,220[2]
Total staff 40,000[3]
Students 45,540 (fall 2020)[4]
Undergraduates 31,650 (fall 2020)[5]
Postgraduates 13,890 (fall 2020)[5]
Location Madison, Wisconsin, United States
43°04′30″N 89°25′02″WCoordinates: 43°04′30″N 89°25′02″W
Campus Large City,[6] 936 acres (379 ha)

So that's about 100,000 people all told.

100,000 people have needs.

Again remember that students virtually never have cars.

Have you ever been to Oxford or Cambridge? Their campuses are not so different.

> A campus is traditionally the land on which a college or university and related institutional buildings are situated. Usually a college campus includes libraries, lecture halls, residence halls, student centers or dining halls, and park-like settings.

I guess you don't have any of that?

They do in England.

Hm, I bet that's not so. I've been to some in the low countries.

Cerberus

23:38

@tchrist 40,000 non-academic staff?

And they all live there?

@tchrist Well, those are in towns.

tchrist

@Cerberus They live close, somewhere in town, sure.

Cerberus

So they don't need their own facilities for everything.

tchrist

Oh these are all in towns. Madison is a town. Boulder is a town.

But there are no dining centers for the general public, nor student centers.

Cerberus

I remember we stayed in a bed-and-breakfast run by a university teacher at Oxford.

That is, he rented out a room in his house.

Didn't live on the campus.

tchrist

I'm trying to remember where I've stayed there.

Cerberus

23:41

I think we have a few newish departments of universities that also have rooms for students.

I know one at Utrecht.

tchrist

In Exeter they actually put me up in the faculty building for visiting scholars, so it had meals and such. Cambridge I stayed in town. Oxford I feel like was always somewhere leafier.

Utrecht is specifically one place I've been there. Louvain-la-Neuve is another; I forget what that was in Dutch. Probably just Luvein or something.

Ah Leuven.

Sometimes for Oxford I would stay at some guesthouse, certainly bed and breakfast like with a touch of Fawlty Towers. :)

Most of this was 30 to 40 years ago. You'll forgive me if I don't remember it clearly.

Cerberus

Oh, funny, they built a second Leuven, and a second Catholic University of Louvain!

tchrist

Yeah.

Cerberus

I think they also have the Vrije Universiteit and the Université Libre in Brussels.

tchrist

The first rings a distinct bell.

Cerberus

23:48

Same synonymous split.

tchrist

> ...following the linguistic quarrels that took place in Belgium during the 1960s, and Flemish claims of discrimination at the Catholic University of Leuven, the institution was split into the Dutch language Katholieke Universiteit te Leuven which remained in Leuven, and the Université catholique de Louvain.

Cerberus

Is this split terrible or terrific?

tchrist

It is a more diverting than anything.

divertissant? Something like that. But I'm sure they were not amused.

Hm, I thought that, apart from Belgium proper, it was Flanders that had higher standards of living / lower poverty rates than Wallonia.

I wonder if it was language-based discrimination or church-based, or what.

Cerberus

@tchrist It has, but I'm not sure what you mean by "apart from Belgium proper".

Wallonia has been poorer since the end of the industrial age.

tchrist

I meant Brussels. Sorry.

Cerberus

23:53

It used to be more civilised, the élite in Brussels spoke and still speak French.

tchrist

Brussels is a weird exception in that, no?

Cerberus

I suppose so.

tchrist

I mostly just remember eating very, very well there. :)

Cerberus

I think francophones look down on Flamands even in Wallonia, but especially so in Brussels.

But probably also on Dutchmen, or possibly anyone who isn't a francophone Bruxellois (?).

Friends of my parents moved to Brussels.

After they had settled, they went to their neighbours' house to introduce themselves.

They could tell they were at home, but no way they would open the door to Dutchmen.

tchrist

That's too bad. I don't get that feeling of Zurich towards Geneva so much. Not sure about the more Italian or Romansh cantons though. I've only spent much time at all in the Suisse Romande, though, so may not recognize it.

Cerberus

23:55

Their perceived status was too high for that.

tchrist

WTF?

I don't understand city people.

Cerberus

And you must imagine that these friends were Mr and Mrs Ambassador moving into the Dutch Residency.

But still, they weren't good enough for them.

Perhaps they would have let in the French ambassador, I don't know.

tchrist

The petite bourgeoisie are ever so full of themselves.

Cerberus

Heh, well, I do not know whether they were bourgeoisie, nor, if they were, petty.

I should ask them.

Perhaps they would only speak to nobility.

tchrist

Seems rather petty of them to be trop hauts to meet the neighbors.

Cerberus

23:59

Fair enough.

Petite noblesse?

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