English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:01

Mostly trending down: nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/covid-19-vaccine-doses.html but the data are complex.

There was a very notable national rise as delta was hitting everywhere.

Of late, not so much.

Were your two mRNA shots 3 weeks apart, or were they longer apart? It appears now that waiting a bit may enhance the response. That's one of the two reasons why they think the standard Moderna regimen at 4 weeks apart is standing up better than the standard Pfizer gap of 3 weeks apart. But also that Moderna was 3x the dosage. I know the UK played around with widening the gap.

Moderna was 3x the dosage to get enough of the vaccine into the cell. The body recognized it as foreign more easily because Moderna couldn't use synthetic nucleotides to imitate the three-dimensional folding of "friendly" substances the way Pfizer did.

@Robusto Why do programmers keep making identifiers longer and longer? It makes it harder, not easier. Long identifiers need groupings to be understandable. Otherwise you're forever wondering whether a `ThornyCrabApplePayCoreDumpTruckStopLightHouseMouseTrap` is really a `ThornyCrab_ApplePay_CoreDump_TruckStop_LightHouse_MouseTrap`, or a `Thorny_CrabApple_PayCore_DumpTruck_StopLight_HouseMouse_Trap`, or a `ThornyCrabApple_PayCore_DumpTruckStop_LightHouseMouse_Trap`, or a
`Thorny_CrabApple_PayCoreDump_TruckStopLight_HouseMouseTrap`.

Cerberus

@tchrist Longer.

I think maybe six weeks?

tchrist

@Cerberus Good.

Cerberus

@tchrist Hmm a complex graph.

tchrist

Cerberus

It seems many people aren't getting their second dose.

The recent increase is probably caused by the newly introduced Corona pass, needed to enter horeca.

tchrist

00:16

The UK and the Netherlands are apparently both at around 67% of the population. The US is at a miserable 53%.

Cerberus

Hospitality industry

The hospitality industry is a broad category of fields within the service industry that includes lodging, food and drink service, event planning, theme parks, travel and tourism. It includes hotels, tourism agencies, restaurants and bars. == Sectors == According to the Cambridge Business English Dictionary the "hospitality industry" consists of hotels and food service, equivalent to NAICS code 72, "Accommodation and Food Service". === Definition in the United States === In 2020, the United States Department of Labor Standard Industrial Classification (SIC) defines the hospitality indust...

tchrist

I have heard, though, that the new mandates are having positive effect.

Cerberus

@tchrist Is that for one or two shots?

tchrist

@Cerberus Two, I think.

Cerberus

Of the entire population, or of all adults?

@tchrist Yes, that matches the graph above for Holland.

tchrist

00:18

@Cerberus Population, I think.

Cerberus

That also matches the graph.

tchrist

World vaccination data are from nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/….

Cerberus

I wonder why daily vaccinations had such a sharp decline here, around early July.

Iberia is doing well.

tchrist

They are. They had it so badly.

Cerberus

Is Malta under Iberian influence at all?

tchrist

00:22

@Cerberus People were on holiday to the North Sea beaches?

@Cerberus No.

It might have taken in some of the Sephardic refugees. I don't remember.

It's so close to Italy, that has the greatest influence.

It hasn't been ruled by an Iberian kingdom since 1409. The expulsion was of course in 1492.

That was back when the Crown of Aragon ruled most of the Western Mediterranean.

And even some of the East.

The mercantile and cosmopolitan Catalans were on top then. The landlocked Castilians were thought of as barefoot shepherds.

Here blue is above average, gold is below average:

@Cerberus Did you see this? Sex and language: Why the word “woman” is tying people in knots. It is almost always women who are ordered to dispense with a useful word.

Cerberus

00:38

@tchrist I doubt whether that would be a reason.

@tchrist Plus ça change, they would say in Barcelona.

tchrist

@Cerberus Only because so many of them speak French. It's much less common for a Castilian to do so.

And by "so many", I really do mean still the educated minority.

I was hitchhiking once and caught a lift from a Catalan en route à France.

Cerberus

@tchrist I see many countries have plateaux. But notice how, in some countries, the lines squeeze together, whereas, in others, they remain far apart, as in Holland, without much of an approach.

tchrist

@Cerberus That part I don't understand. Have they just forgotten to finish?

Cerberus

@tchrist Hmm Florida now slightly on top.

tchrist

@Cerberus Yes, after unthinkable horrors that still continue till this very day and who knows how many tomorrows.

Cerberus

00:44

@tchrist Fairly ridiculous. I'm sure any normal transsexual will understand himself to be included in that word in such a specific context. Some people are pretending that transsexuals somehow lack sense, which I think is a bit of an insult.

@tchrist I'm wondering about it too.

I caught my barber saying that he had got just one shot.

Maybe it's laziness?

But why does that happen much more often only in some countries rather than all?

@tchrist So these proportions are not of the entire population, but of adults?

tchrist

@Cerberus You can read as well as I can, if not better. :)

They have clickers for 12+ vs 18+ etc.

It just says "state population".

@Cerberus Just a week ago I got to hear a harangue by a kid-programmer from DC ranting about making things hostile for non-masculine programmers. I thought he was saying that only macho programmers were being welcomed. He didn't. He simply could not bring himself to say "female" or "women" because both those words have become taboo in his social set.

It wasn't "Yo Billy, you aren't masculine enough!" But it sure sounded like it.

Because of stupidity with language.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ah, those are not visible. I asked because the legend didn't mention any part, so one would assume the entire population, but then the percentage would seem too high.

tchrist

I don't know that the clicker works for that graph.

Cerberus

@tchrist Soon, they will have lost all words.

Then we shall have peace.

tchrist

Clicker is just for that one.

Cerberus

00:54

@tchrist It says ca. 67% for the entire country, which cannot be the entire population, can it?

tchrist

@Cerberus I thought overall the country was at 53%.

Or maybe that's fully vaccinated.

Damn it, this shouldn't be so unclear.

The Economist's "people with cervixes" is just wrong.

And the misquote of Ginsburg criminal.

Robusto

@tchrist I don't know. My practice has always been to make identifiers clear, not long.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah, proper definitions are always important!

@tchrist What if you had your cervix removed because of cancer?

How insulting.

tchrist

@Robusto It's driving me crazy.

Cerberus

It's a dilemma, isn't it?

tchrist

00:58

@Cerberus cervices

Cerberus

Oh, the form.

At any rate, I think you're still allowed to be a woman even after such an operation.

tchrist

:)

I should say!

> On September 18th the American Civil Liberties Union (aclu) republished a quote from Ruth Bader Ginsburg, a Supreme Court judge, on the anniversary of her death. The quote was a defence of a woman’s right to have an abortion. But the aclu’s version—for which it, too, later apologised—replaced every instance of “women” with “people”. In Britain the opposition Labour Party is tying itself in very public knots over questions such as whether only women possess cervixes.

Robusto

I think part of it has to do with groupthink. The ORGANIZATION sets a standard, and then everyone has to follow it, even though the collected intellects—what a few years ago was lovingly called the "hive mind"—was not smarter than the individual.

Cerberus

The whole discussion is pointless and carries within it a high potential of problems, problems.

tchrist

@Cerberus I noticed the article because I'm still burning from thinking that someone was insulting other programmers' masculinity.

Cerberus

01:02

@tchrist Yeah I would have interpreted it in that same way.

tchrist

It sounded like he was talking about...."limp-wristed" programmers, to use an ugly old slight.

It's like a completely different language they're speaking. This causes problems.

Robusto

@tchrist: The whole idea of potentially having to type 86 characters would put me in a bad mood. And even autocomplete fails, because the differentiators arrive with the 80th character, but—I'm looking at you, Microsoft—the dropdown only shows the first 45 characters, so you have no way of knowing which identifier you're selecting unless you try each one until you hit pay dirt.

All in the name of making life easier. Ain't it ironic?

tchrist

@Robusto And the mysql server silently truncates identifiers at 64 characters, so things like unique keys or foreign key constraints can easily become too long and get axed.

Just as one example.

I think I'm ok with that limit though. Nobody should need more than 64 fricking characters just to name something.

Robusto

@tchrist Yes. Makes me once again glad I'm retired, actually. Thank you.

tchrist

I keep thinking about you, and that, as these things keep arising.

Drives me nuts.

Robusto

01:07

I sympathize.

Cerberus

@tchrist I recommend skipping all such texts.

tchrist

It's my genes, I'm afraid. But it's very common, that as we grow older we become less willing to put of with bullshit. I've seen that with my parents. And yet my great-uncle is the friendliest old man you'll ever meet, easy going, doesn't get ruffled by small stuff like I do. So it's not guaranteed. But he was in active combat, and that gives you a lifelong perspective shift.

Cerberus

The question is, do you want to be ruffled by the small stuff?

When I am, sometimes it is because I want to.

tchrist

I can't help it. I'm wired badly.

Cerberus

Such as with incorrect Latin plurals.

Robusto

01:11

There's only one employer I ever worked for that was smart enough to make me even consider going back. And I left them because they got acquired by ADP, which took a meat axe to benefits and vacation time and made everyone get a urine test because people who smoke marijuana are, of course, untrustworthy. Not that I smoked it, but I have too much self-respect to pee into a cup because some idiot wants it.

Cerberus

But the PC stuff, I just hate it and I do not find it funny or interesting at all, so I skip the headlines. I don't click.

tchrist

Ignoro, Ignoramoose.

Cerberus

!!!

tchrist

I knew an incorrect Latin plural would get you.

Robusto

@tchrist Wait till you get into your seventh decade. The crap you put up with gets smaller and so does your patience.

tchrist

01:12

@Robusto Mom says that.

Robusto

@Cerberus Yeah, I hate that nonsense. Political correctness is a club we give the right wing so they'll have an easier time beating on us.

tchrist

But these days it is the left that is destroying ourselves with that stuff.

Robusto

Yes, by furnishing the right with weapons against us.

tchrist

"Pregnant people."

Robusto

Faux News doesn't need more ammunition.

tchrist

01:15

@Robusto It seems much worse than that. It's some sort of purification ritual.

Robusto

A circular firing squad.

Cerberus

@Robusto Exactly!

@Robusto Touché.

Or should I say, hit.

Robusto

That's hitting the head on the nail.

tchrist

@Robusto Stop keeping up with the Congressional debacle du jour.

CowperKettle

@Cerberus Russians are quick by nature.

Cerberus

01:18

@tchrist Are you now advising Rob as I advised you?

tchrist

The virtual signalling of the wokier-than-thou is killing us.

Cerberus

@CowperKettle I didn't know that.

tchrist

@CowperKettle Half of them are. The other half are dead.

Robusto

Hard on the land wears the strong sea
and empty grows every bed.

tchrist

@Cerberus It's our recurrent national disappointment.

tchrist

01:34

Official, formal tallies of Americans dead from Covid have now exceeded 700 thousand. That probably means a million have died, based on excess deaths over the average for the same period.

CowperKettle

02:13

Crime in Louisiana

This article refers to crime in the U.S. state of Louisiana. == Statistics == According to the Louisiana Uniform Crime reporting program, there were 177,710 crimes reported in Louisiana in 2018. 2018 had the least amount of non-violent criminal offenses since at least 2008. Violent crime decreased from 2017 to 2018, but 2012 still remains the lowest with its record of 22,868. Rape went up 12.7% from 2017 while murder/non-negligent manslaughter went down 7.8%. Additionally, robbery went down 15% and aggravated assault went down 1.5%. Handguns remain the leading murder weapon with a rate of 44.7...

In such weather, I would just want to lie down near an air conditioner and do nothing.

My respects to the citizens of Louisiana for being able to do crime in such hot weather.

> On March 13, 1919, a letter purporting to be from the Axeman was published in newspapers, saying that he would kill again at 15 minutes past midnight on the night of March 19 but would spare the occupants of any place where a jazz band was playing.

> That night all of New Orleans' dance halls were filled to capacity, and professional and amateur bands played jazz at parties at hundreds of houses around town. There were no murders that night.

Axeman of New Orleans

The Axeman of New Orleans was an American serial killer active in New Orleans, Louisiana, and surrounding communities, including Gretna, from May 1918 to October 1919. Press reports during the height of public panic about the killings mentioned similar murders as early as 1911, but recent researchers have called these reports into question. The Axeman was never identified, and the murders remain unsolved. He mainly targeted Italian immigrants and Italian-Americans. == Background == As the killer's epithet implies, the victims usually were attacked with an axe, which often belonged to the victims...

Cerberus

02:34

> For centuries, natural oils have been used to condition human hair.[2] A conditioner popular with men in the late Victorian era was Macassar oil, but this product was quite greasy and required pinning a small cloth, known as an antimacassar, to chairs and sofas to keep the upholstery from being damaged by the oil.

I never knew the word antimacassar had its origin in this practice!

CowperKettle

I found this one feature repulsive. In my mind, men with sleaky conditioned hair look un-sexy.

A man should have a mane of hair, or be bald.

Having sleaky hair, or having wispy hair that just cover the bald spot, is unsexy )))

I would gladly be bald, but I have a large birthmark on my head.

It must be easy to be bald, one could train oneself to shave one's own head.

If I were a billionaire, I would pay tuition for a couple dozen students in a same university, under one condition - they should wear 18-century clothes at all times. It would be cute.

Imagine students in a modern city going around in 18 century clothes.

In flowing wigs.

> In 1889, he died in a suicide pact with his mistress, Mary Freiin von Vetsera, at the Mayerling hunting lodge.

Rudolph the red-nosed Prince.

tchrist

02:51

in Discussion on answer by Sabrina: Nós estamos - how to pronounce the "s", Sep 11 at 16:11, by Schilive

Sabrina, yeah, you're right. I'll delete my comment. By the way, I am not Lambie, I'e never touched that question. My full name is "Herr Gabriel Schilive von Neumann Schmidt Schöneste Mann der Welt und des Universums homo bellisimus mundique universi Cândida do Amor Divino".

@Cerberus ^^^ Apparently when you cross a German with a Portuguese you get a Roman!

CowperKettle

That's quite a name.

tchrist

Rather.

CowperKettle

mundique is "worldly" probably

tchrist

"And of the world"

The -que is a postfix "and".

And yes, "mundi" is genitive.

He's saying the same thing in several languages.

"Schöneste Mann der Welt und des Universums" = "homo bellisimus mundique universi"

Don't ask me why it's der Welt not des Welt. I don't remember.

It's still supposed to be a genitive.

The Portuguese at the very end isn't saying the same thing though.

A "candid(a)" is a "naïf/naïve", an innocent, an ingenue.

of Divine Love, of course.

CowperKettle

Ah!

Candid: mid 17th century (in the Latin sense): from Latin candidus ‘white’.

tchrist

02:59

Yes.

Pure.

CowperKettle

Candid lives matter.

CLM

tchrist

haha

Candid is the shining bright white like a candle, not the flat/dull white which is albus like an albino.

And yet, the Spanish have come to use alba for the dawn. You would think it would have been the shining white, but no.

Latin distinguished "glossy" from "matte" in a few colors like white.

Or shiny vs flat, if you prefer.

We do in English, too. Gold is shiny yellow.

I think silver is shiny white not shiny grey, but I'm not perfectly certain.

You can't print something that looks like real gold or real copper or real silver without using metallic inks.

> “At first, when they were highest, they seemed merely grey; but as we watched they dropped toward us, and I saw they were of a hue for which I can find no name but that stands to achroma as gold to yellow, or silver to white.”

Apparently silver is shiny white. And the character quoted had no word for the shiny grey.

I can't ever hear BLM in the trendy sense. I've for many decades known it as the Federal Bureau of Land Management, who controls much of the public lands in the West of my country.

CowperKettle

03:17

In Russia, the BLM movement is covered in terms of "the West has gotten mad and is destroying statues"

CowperKettle

03:30

> In April 1915, Captain J.M. Furnival was the first person to hear a voice from the ground from Major Prince who said, "If you can hear me now, it will be the first time speech has ever been communicated to an aeroplane in flight."

CowperKettle

03:41

> A mystery picture for small kids.
Capitalism and Communism
Which one will last longer?

Probably meant to show that in the USSR, small kids were already not quite informed about what "capitalism" meant exactly.

> A little Octobrist at the doorstep
Announced "I don't believe in God".
It's not Christ who gives us bread
But machinery and the collective farm.

From a children's magazine, 1930s.

CowperKettle

04:05

> Lenin and Barge-haulers on Volga

Cerberus

@tchrist Or...some hybrid hydra!

@tchrist Welt is feminine, so the genitive is der.

@tchrist Perhaps dawn is not white enough? It is somewhat rose-fingered, I should say?

CowperKettle

> Bravery of the Persian Women

I wonder if there is a picture titled Bravery of the Scottish Men

Cerberus

@CowperKettle At least capitalism has a hammer so it works.

CowperKettle

@Cerberus I guess that the artist intended it to be a walking stick

Cerberus

@CowperKettle I like it!

Don't ever post it on Facebook or American television, lest you shall be banned!

> Bravery of the Persian Women is an early example of Frans Francken the Younger’s celebrated history paintings. Here he portrays one of the stories related by Plutarch in volume five of his Moralia, which is dedicated to the courage of women.
Beating a frantic retreat, the Persian army led by Cyrus the Great sought to re-enter the city from whence it came, at the risk of bringing the pursuing enemy with it. Furious that they should be placed in danger, the women of the city ran out to meet the soldiers and lifted up their garments to shame them. Accusing their husbands of cowardice, the wo…

@CowperKettle Uhh it definitely looks like a hammer.

In his right hand.

CowperKettle

04:21

As a child, I thought that capitalism was horrible.

And had a dream where the US was going to bomb Noyabrsk on a winter night, and I was trying to run away from my building and hide somewhere.

Propaganda worked until you were not grown enough.

Cerberus

I'm sure children in the West had similar dreams.

Capitalism does have problems, especially the extreme kind.

CowperKettle

In first grade, we were made to memorize short verses addressed to Ronald Raegan, and walk to the chalkboard and declame those verses. Like "why can't you be peaceful, Mr. Reagan? If you want to, I will gift you something. Do you want a hockey stick?"

My friend made a mistake and said "Do you want a drinking glass?" instead of "..hockey stick".

And the class burst out laughing.

Mozhet, kruzhku instead of Mozhet, klushku

Kruzhka is a drinking cup. Klushka is a hockey stick.

Mozhet is "perhaps".

Cerberus

Nice.

It must be said that neither Russia nor America had been super peaceful.

CowperKettle

One of the boys in my class hanged himself on a clothes hanger. He put the clothes hanger inside his jacket, and suspended himself inside a wardrobe, right in the classroom, during a recess.

Cerberus

Fun.

CowperKettle

04:29

The lesson started, and the teacher went looking for him, and found him suspended in the wardrobe. She was very angry.

Cerberus

Might hurt a bit, though.

She should have laughed.

Or did she think someone else forced him into that position?

CowperKettle

No, she was angry because he was constantly doing such things. It was hard to keep him still during classes.

ADHD maybe?

In those days, it was unknown.

> Lenin in Paradise (1973)

Lening is sulking because there are no brave Persian women in Paradise, only some animals.

CowperKettle

04:55

The socialist realism style in art is great sometimes, especially when combined with postmodernism

I think that Norman Rockwell's paintings are close to Socialist Realism

I like them.

Which iPhone model to choose. Do you own a cat? Yes. No.

CowperKettle

06:20

Overcast today, with a light snowfall. The snowflakes melt immediately upon landing.

It's a full month before they start accumulating on the ground in any significant numbers.

Mitch

07:27

@CowperKettle still, I find that crazy. I feel like you were only just a few weeks ago posting pictures of the snow melting, ready for summer.

In Boston the past few years you might get a snowfall in late October of a couple inches but then it doesn't really start snowing with lasting snow cover until January.

CowperKettle

@Mitch One of the most famous resort cities of Russia is Sochi, and it is located 100 km to the north of Boston in terms of latitude.

Derbent

Derbent (Russian: Дербе́нт; Persian: دربند‎; Lezgian: Кьвевар, Цал; Azerbaijani: Dərbənd; Avar: Дербенд), formerly romanized as Derbend, is a city in Dagestan, Russia, located on the Caspian Sea. It is the southernmost city in Russia, and it is the second-most important city of Dagestan. Derbent occupies the narrow gateway between the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus Mountains connecting the Eurasian Steppe to the north and the Iranian Plateau to the south; covering an area of 69.63 square kilometres (26.88 sq mi), with a population of roughly 120 thousand residents. Derbent claims to be the oldest...

This is Russia's southernmost town, and it's only some 20 km south of Boston.

Mitch

07:57

@CowperKettle But is it a summer or winter resort? I vaguely remember it is on the Black Sea which is summery, but the Winter Olympics were held there leading me to believe that it is not so warm.

CowperKettle

08:33

@Mitch Sochi is on the shore, but it has mountains nearby (Krasnaya Polyana)

Krasnaya Polyana, Sochi, Krasnodar Krai

Krasnaya Polyana (Russian: Кра́сная Поля́на, IPA: [ˈkrasnəjə pɐˈlʲanə]; Abkhazian: Гәбаадәы, Gwbaadwy; Adyghe: Ӏаткъуадж, ‘atquaj) is an urban locality (an urban-type settlement) in Krasnopolyansky Settlement Okrug, which is under the administrative jurisdiction of Adlersky City District of the City of Sochi in Krasnodar Krai, Russia. Population: 4,598 (2010 Census); 3,969 (2002 Census); 3,300 (1989 Census).Located in the Western Caucasus, it is home to the new Rosa Khutor alpine ski resort, with a base elevation of 560 meters (1,840 ft) along the Mzymta River, 39 kilometers (24 mi) from its influx...

> The lift-served summit climbs to 2,320 meters (7,610 ft), giving a vertical drop of over a mile at 1,760 meters (5,770 ft). The resort hosted the Alpine and Nordic events of the 2014 Winter Olympics

By itself Sochi is very warm, but the height gradient of 2 kilometers makes a difference.

Mitch

10:56

@CowperKettle so you can go skiing in the morning on the mountain, then come down to the sea to swim in warm beach in the afternoon?

I think I should have known this during the Olympics there but I have forgotten more than I ever knew about anything

CowperKettle

11:11

@Mitch Yes

On this day in 1993

Russian National Unity squad prepares to protect the rebellious Soviet Parliament in Moscow.

Russian National Unity

Russian National Unity (RNU) or All-Russian civic patriotic movement "Russian National Unity" (Russian: Всероссийское общественное патриотическое движение "Русское национальное единство"), is a neo-Nazi political party and paramilitary organization based in Russia and formerly operating in states with Russian-speaking populations. It was founded by the ultra-nationalist Alexander Barkashov. The movement advocates the expulsion of non-Russians and an increased role for traditional Russian institutions such as the Russian Orthodox Church. The organization is currently unregistered federally in Russia...

> Following Yeltsin's victory, the RNU worked illegally for several months. While underground, the movement continued to publish their newspaper Russian Order.

Boggles the mind, how in a country that suffered millions of deaths at the hands of German Nazis anybody could wear a swastika on his sleeve.

> In 2014, RNU members joined pro-Russian forces in Ukraine during the War in Donbass[11] under commandment of Pavel Gubarev.

CowperKettle

11:51

Word of the day: Araucanization of Patagonia

CowperKettle

12:46