English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

01:29

speak/spoke
leak/loke
peak/poke
freak/froke

@tchrist I remember text RPGs.

Mitch

02:09

tell/talk
hear/hark
steal/stalk
smile/smirk

raf

02:26

@tchrist yes, Mathjax uses LaTeX.

@raf Can I ask this question on EL&U SE?

tchrist

02:55

@raf Sure, but I don't know how fair a reception you may get. People are very shoot-first-ask-questions-later around here lately. There are lots of other systems too, like desktop publishing systems like InDesign and some horrible xslst transforms I've been doing my utmost to forget lo these ten years and counting now.

raf

03:11

@tchrist How about "Digital Typography systems"?

tchrist

03:25

@raf Typesetting, but sure.

@raf dmrthesis.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/…

They wrote troff because they got their hands on a piece of phototypesetting hardware.

> Description:UNIX PROGRAMMER'S MANUAL Fifth Edition DISCLAIMER: there is no warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particu!ar purpose. This manual was set by a Graphic Systems phototypesetter driven by the troff formatting program operating under the UNIX system. The number of UNIX installations is now above 50, and many more are expected.

See the difference?

> Unix was the original formatting, but the usage of UNIX remains widespread because it was once typeset in small caps (Uɴɪx). According to Dennis Ritchie, when presenting the original Unix paper to the third Operating Systems Symposium of the American Association for Computing Machinery (ACM), "we had a new typesetter and troff had just been invented and we were intoxicated by being able to produce small caps."

CowperKettle

05:41

The Navy invented a device to prevent people from talking popularmechanics.com/military/research/a37386388/…

CowperKettle

08:07

Faheem Mitha

09:40

@raf You didn't like Barbara's suggestion?

Matt E. Эллен

09:50

@raf when I was a kid it was called Desktop Publishing

Desktop publishing

Desktop publishing (DTP) is the creation of documents using page layout software on a personal ("desktop") computer. It was first used almost exclusively for print publications, but now it also assists in the creation of various forms of online content. Desktop publishing software can generate layouts and produce typographic-quality text and images comparable to traditional typography and printing. Desktop publishing is also the main reference for digital typography. This technology allows individuals, businesses, and other organizations to self-publish a wide variety of content, from menus to...

Faheem Mitha

10:04

@MattE.Эллен I suggested that one too, in TeX SE chat.

I also suggested asking here, though I did not specifically mention Chat. Would such a question be on-topic here?

Matt E. Эллен

@FaheemMitha on the main site? technically yes, so long as it follows the sing-word-requests rules. whether people accept it is usually down to a roll of the dice, but well formatted questions have a good chance

Faheem Mitha

@MattE.Эллен sing-word-requests?

Oh, single. Never mind.

Matt E. Эллен

oops! yeah

Faheem Mitha

@MattE.Эллен Well, I figured it was on-topic here, which is why I suggested it. Whether there actually exists any suitable terminology is another matter. Barbara Beeton of TeX suggested "document processing system", which seems as good as anything. Though it's not a single word. Does one need to ask for a single word? That seems unreasonably limiting.

Matt E. Эллен

10:21

@FaheemMitha oh, no, it could be a phrase-requests or similar question, but it would still need to follow the rules in the single-word-requests tag info

apart from where it says you need to be looking for a single word

Faheem Mitha

@MattE.Эллен Yes, I understand.

Matt E. Эллен

oh! apparently phrase-requests has its rules described in its info

CowperKettle

12:02

Kodachrome of New York in 1964 by Evelyn Hofer

Cerberus

Yuck.

raf

@MattE.Эллен as you guys suggested, I have just asked it in the main site. Is there anything I need to improve in the question?

0

Q: What common name can be used to classify LaTeX and office suites together?

If someone wants to put LaTeX and office suites (like MS Word, Powerpoint, etc.) together in the same line in his CV/resume in the following way: Programming Languages: C++, Python (*): LaTeX, Microsoft Office, LibreOffice What should be put in the place of '(*)' here? From the chatrooms in TeX...

Matt E. Эллен

looks good to me

raf

@MattE.Эллен thank you.

raf

12:24

@MattE.Эллен sadly, my question's got downvote. That's why I was hesitating to post the question in the first place. :(

Matt E. Эллен

12:39

@raf that sucks. you can never tell what people will do

@Cerberus I dunno. it seems like humans invented physics to explain the universe.

but I suppose, colloquially, between friends, you can say physics created the universe

as a treat

raf

@MattE.Эллен yes. :( I wish it's compulsory to provide a short explanation while downvoting any question or answer on SE. It would help the OP to improve his question/answer.

Matt E. Эллен

@raf the problem there is that it in some cases that leads to arguments. Helpful comments are nice, but you have to be pretty brave to leave one without knowing how the person will react!

raf

@MattE.Эллен Oh, right. I didn't think that way. I agree. But how about if the OP receives the downvote explanation as an "anonymous message" from the downvoter?

Matt E. Эллен

@raf that could work.

Cerberus

12:56

@MattE.Эллен Let's be colloquial!

Matt E. Эллен

It is Friday, after all :D

Cerberus

Woohoo!

CowperKettle

The Amazon rainforest

Matt E. Эллен

13:25

@raf I think that it might improve the question if you edit in the fact that LaTeX isn't a word processor, to let people know that that's a term you've eliminated

CowperKettle

OMG

Matt E. Эллен

that's quite a jump

Mitch

14:10

@MattE.Эллен Thanks Physics!

Curio

<<Before your maximum health was 100 HP.
Now you can reach up to 120 HP!>>

Is it correct?

raf

@MattE.Эллен I have added it. Thank you for the suggestion.

Matt E. Эллен

no problem!

Mitch

14:36

@Curio Writing obscures some things that are obvious in speech.

> Before, your maximum health was 100 HP.

"Before now (pause) your maximum health was 100 HP"

ie, presumably, up to now, up to the current time, when you didn't have access to our product, you could get a maximum of 100 health points. But if you buy our product you can get more than that, up to 120 HP

or something like that.

Matt E. Эллен

"our product" being a cupboard capable of storing 20 bottles of HP sauce.

tchrist

Hot pepper does a lot to improve your maximum health.

Matt E. Эллен

it will reject Daddy's or Heinz. Only HP

Curio

@Mitch I think it's too long XD

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist that's why you spice UP your life

Mitch

14:49

@Curio Wait... were you writing that and wanted to check if it was correct, or did you want to understand somebody else's text.

@MattE.Эллен They're identical.

also A1 steak sauce

Curio

Well I wanted to know if it's correct

Mitch

or add thickener to your favorite Worcestershire sauce

which reminds me of a story

well not a story

Curio

Both

Mitch

more of an anecdote

which I've recounted here before

but

it's way too

laborious to try to search for it

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch brown and saucy

Mitch

14:50

and the anecdote is...

should I use quotes?

No, but what I should do is stop editorializing

like that

Matt E. Эллен

you can varicate after

Mitch

@Curio It's more easily understood if you put a comma after the 'before'.

Some would call that correct and without the comma incorrect.

@MattE.Эллен before, you can prevaricate. before you can prevaricate.

so to continue with the anecdote

and that's not editorializing, just giving a landmark so to speak, a discourse marker, so that you know what's going to happen next.

I went to one of the Harry Potter World theme parks.

(I can't remember which one. was it sunny? Yes. Was it Florida? Maybe. Are there others? Also maybe)

Matt E. Эллен

There's one just outside London

Mitch

And in the area called Hogsmeade (where they sell mostly Hogscrap)

@MattE.Эллен I am not such a citizen of the world that I have had the pleasure of visiting the London one.

Maybe I've been to the real one up in an unnamed are of Scotland (it's obviously in Scotland, right?)

Matt E. Эллен

just to answer your question re: are there other ones. I was being presumptive that since it was sunny it wasn't over here

Mitch

14:56

Or is she just intimating that it is Scotlandish?

Matt E. Эллен

Oh, yes, Hogwarts is definitely in Scotland

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Look man it's Friday...there's time during the rest of the week to slam the awful weather of Southern England when we could all just agree that it is much much better than further north.

@MattE.Эллен It's not timeless and placeless (as far as contemporary UK goes)?

I mean does she say "Hey mofos, Hogwarts is in Scotland"?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I can't remember. it's probably on Pottermore...

Hogwarts

Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry () is a fictional British boarding school of magic for students aged eleven to eighteen, and is the primary setting for the first six books in J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter series and serves as a major setting in the Wizarding World universe. == History == === Establishment === Founded in the 10th century by Godric Gryffindor, Rowena Ravenclaw, Helga Hufflepuff and Salazar Slytherin, Hogwarts was established in the Highlands of Scotland to educate young wizards and witches as well as to keep students safe from muggle persecution. Theory has it that Rowena...

if you trust Wikipedia...

Mitch

So I'm in Hogsmeade and they have a streetside stand selling Butterbeer. UNeffing believable, the real Butterbeer? That sounds awful. Yes, I think I'll have some, and eff it a round of Butterbeer for the whole effing family.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Mitch

15:00

@MattE.Эллен Exactly

CowperKettle

> Whereas propofol causes brain activity to become dominated by very low-frequency rhythms, ketamine includes periods of high power in high frequency rhythms. Those two very different means of achieving unconsciousness seems to suggest that consciousness is a state that can be lost in multiple ways, Brown said. medicalxpress.com/news/…

Propofol was the drug that killed Michael Jackson

Mitch

And I take a sip (worried that it might actually be made of beer and butter)

shit, throw a pickle and some pound cake in there too while you're at it.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch official website say Scotland

Mitch

and hmmm...that taste... strange yet it is exactly what you would think some magical magicians would be drinking in a magician's pub in magical north of magical effing GB.

And then you realize... all those years ago, when the adults are handing out the soda cans from an ice cooler to all the kids, and you get a Pepsi and you get a Coke and you get a coke and hey a Grape Nehi and you get a ... oh this is the last one, you get a 'Cream Soda'

WTS is a cream soda you may ask?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch ah, yes, the taste of Irn Bru

Mitch

15:05

It's soda where they add all the ingredients to make it a soda.

except they don't put in the stuff to make it a coke or a pepsi or a dr pepper or a grape nehi or anything.

It's just soda with a lot of sugar

maybe vanilla

they all have that

its basically cotton candy in drink form

Matt E. Эллен

and the amount of cotton candy you'd need to make a drink is phenomenal

Mitch

it's.a lot of sugar

also it's colored beige

light beige

not ecru

Matt E. Эллен

to look like beer

Mitch

or eggshell

a beer that has gone bad

can beer go bad?

like it has a fungus

Matt E. Эллен

(can beer go good?)

@Mitch like yeast? :p

Mitch

15:09

As far as I'm concerned, it can go

@MattE.Эллен Oh

right

another fungus?

Hey it's probiotic!

Matt E. Эллен

:D

I'll stick to cider. It can count as one of my five a day

Mitch

You let anything sit around long enough it turns into some fancy food

milk becomes cheese

cheese becomes more cheese

(I could send a picture of inside my fridge)

Matt E. Эллен

so with one glass of milk, we can have infinite cheese!

Mitch

grape juice becomes wine

Matt E. Эллен

wine becomes grappa

not sure if that's more or less fancy

Mitch

15:13

some awful porridge of old wheat and some plants that grow by the roadside becomes some older and warmer juice of wheat and roadside plants.

beer

I'm calling that beer

@MattE.Эллен YES!

@MattE.Эллен more fancy?

a different fancy

and old dead rotting fish washed up in the salty sandy shore become

we call it 'smoked'

if it still has parts of its eyes it's rotten.

No eyes, smoked.

I mean what a rip off gazpacho is.

Matt E. Эллен

leave an egg in the sand for 100 years, it's a century egg

Mitch

chop up some tomatoes, don't bother to cook it, let it sit in your fridge for awhile

"Hey what's this" "It's soup"

@MattE.Эллен Calling it a century old doesn't make me think better of it.

Matt E. Эллен

sounds like a money making scheme

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен always on the make

a side hustle

it all adds up

Matt E. Эллен

just tell the right rich person that the working class love it and bam! you'll be sold out by summer

Mitch

15:18

I have some left over soda syrup but without the flavor syrup to make the different brands. What shall I do with it? Throw it away?

NO!

Matt E. Эллен

no?

Mitch

I WILL CREATE A THEME PARK AROUND HARRY POTTER JUST IN ORDER TO SELL MY LEFTOVER SODA SYRUP AS BUTTERBEER BECAUSE JK ROWLING WANTED TO ADD SOME LOCAL QUAINT VILLAGE COLOR TO HER YOUNG ADULT NOVEL

Matt E. Эллен

solid plan

Mitch

also 2000 pages of unneeded teen angst

at least have real kids problems

"Oh woe is me I didn't know I was Jesus and now there's all this pressure on me"

News flash: Most kids aren't Jesus

Matt E. Эллен

depends where you live

Mitch

15:21

(I mean Jesus wasn't really Jesus but that's another Friday morning)

@MattE.Эллен Touché

So the fact that 'butterbeer' was really just cream soda is the same to me as realizing HP sauce is the same as A1 sauce.

Except that HP/A1 is actually good.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

so now you just have to empty 20 bottles of it into a cupboard

Mitch

Not that cream soda is bad... it's just...

I remember a guy who kept cream soda in the fridge at work..."Seems nice o have a drink at work, but why, for the love of God, is it cream soda?"

"Oh that's easy. That way nobody will steal it."

That guy was not otherwise a total weirdo

Great logic, plan well executed.

Matt E. Эллен

yeah

now you have a drink forever

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle that'sa different argument AFAIK, and not a philosophicalone, per se. The idea is that we trace the origin of time right up to the Big Bang, so the entirety of our scientific endeavor depends on time, a concept that ceases to exist before Big Bang. In other words, we don't know what happened before Big Bang snd we don't care, it can't have had any influence on the laws of the universe.

@Mitch that sounds nauseating. What on Earth is cream soda

@Mitch it's safe enough to assume no one was Jesus statistically speaking.

Faheem Mitha

15:39

@Mitch Sugared carbonated water is bad for you and makes no sense any way you think of it. Incredibly Coca-Cola made a lot of money doing it, and are considered a "wonderful" business by the likes of Warren Buffet.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha It probably causes diabetes like smoking causes lung cancer.

Faheem Mitha

"Are" or "is". Probably "is". Since a corporation is probably singular. Not 100%, though.

Mitch

@M.A.R. It is bottled nausea. The taste is like thin maple syrup with some extra vanilla

Faheem Mitha

@Mitch Well, there are lots of ways to ingest sugar, but still, it's nasty stuff, and a mad choice for a beverage.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha That's a question for ELU main.

Faheem Mitha

15:46

Incidentally, diabetes is correlated with weight gain. Not sugar intake per se.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha And by 'mad' I take it you mean that everyone wants it.

Faheem Mitha

Except insofar as sugar intake is correlelated with weight gain.

@Mitch Not everyone. I never could stand the stuff. I was a confused child, but not that confused.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha Oh.

I was going off the mechanism of 'sugar shock', that repeatedly ingesting high pure sugar is training your system for later diabetes action.

Faheem Mitha

In India (or at least Bombay), they referred to the stuff as a "soft drink". I'm not sure if that is international terminology.

@Mitch Yes, that might be the case. But any candy would do that.

Mitch

@FaheemMitha There's the throat burning effervescence -and0 carbolic acid. Not for everyone.

Faheem Mitha

15:48

Possibly eating lots of bananas would do that.

Mitch

but a good automotive engine cleaner nonetheless

@FaheemMitha yeah 'soft drink' is also what I would call it.

Faheem Mitha

Anyway, capitalism is a strange beast. Let's admire companies like Coca-Cola and Microsoft, for example. Which are both basically bad news. Because they make lots of money. And let's not talk about the weapons manufacturers.

@Mitch Oh, so not India-specific, then.

They call hot water heaters geysers here. I bet that's India-specific.

CowperKettle

Curio

"Your character didn't use to kill his mates"

How can I say this in another way? Similar to <<used to protect>> and <<didn't want their death>>

CowperKettle

16:04

> Nearly 29% of participants reduced their levels of physical activity during and after the first lockdown in England (March to August 2020), according to a study involving 35,915 adults, published in Scientific Reports.

Odd. I greatly increased my physical activity in 2020, it was the only year during which I ran more than 2000 km/year.

CowperKettle

16:56

> Folks who took about 7,000 steps a day had a 50% to 70% lower risk of dying from all causes during after 11 years of follow-up when compared with people who took fewer steps each day.medicalxpress.com/news/2021-09-day-longer-life.html

By the way, Dickens was a devoted walker, walking many miles in a one go

O_O nytimes.com/2018/05/13/business/…

Cerberus

17:36

@Curio My character would not usually kill his mates?

Mitch

18:48

Cream soda

Cream soda (also known as creme soda or creaming soda) is a sweet soft drink. Generally flavored with vanilla and based on the taste of an ice cream soda, a wide range of variations can be found worldwide. == History and development == A recipe for cream soda written by E. M. Sheldon and published in Michigan Farmer in 1852 called for water, cream of tartar (Potassium bitartrate), Epsom salts, sugar, egg, and milk, to be mixed, then heated, and mixed when cool with water and a quarter teaspoonful of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to make an effervescent drink. It was suggested as a temperance...

4 recipes for making butterbeer

Robusto

20:50

Paul Simon - Kodachrome (Audio)

►

Cerberus

21:12

> Van alle coronapatiënten in het ziekenhuis is 90 procent niet gevaccineerd.

Of all Corona patients in hospitals, 90% are unvaccinated. This while 85% of adults have been vaccinated by now.

2

Mitch

21:34

OMG the worst thing about Friday is that it's almost over.

Cerberus

Why?

That means your week-end begins?

Downton Abbey - "What Is A Weekend?"

►

Mitch

21:50

@Cerberus oh

Things are looking up then

@Cerberus didn't they have to go to church?

Didn't they have weeks back then? By all logic that there is, doesn't that then imply that there must be an end to each of these weeks?

Don't believe everything you think.

Cerberus

@Mitch There were Sundays, but not week-ends!

Mitch

I'm just trying to work out the math of there being distinct weeks but no end to individual weeks

I wonder how other countries deal with it

Maybe their math is different

Like in France, or rather in French, 0 is s positive number

And it is not a non-negative number

Vive la diffërence!

Cerberus

@Mitch Weeks have ends, but that doesn't mean those ends need names?

Mitch

22:20

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…