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00:47
when a person aren't concerned about disbursing money, you give way to her.
01:45
@tchrist Oh, that's a really good story.
Not the one I forgot, to be sure.
@Mitch Yeah, it's all in the way you tell it! reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/1rxtwv/…
But this new one, to be clear, I walk into most every bar.
Crawling out maybe
01:59
@Conrado it's all in the.
 
2 hours later…
03:41
@Mitch ...timing
04:34
1
A: Is "an historical" correct?

John LawlerYou ask why some people say or write an historical. The thing is, that's not what any people actually say or write. People who uses the string an historical is going have a noun after it. E.g, novel: He started an historical novel today and now he can't put it down. because an historical is not...

Just what we always needed: an hypnotic suggestion.
05:05
A fresh girl is a live girl, but a fresh chicken is a dead chicken.
@Xanne And a fresh chick has just started college?
Freshchicks, sophoguys.
05:37
If a chick is a young woman, how old must she be before she becomes a chicken?
 
3 hours later…
08:12
user image
2
08:46
@CowperKettle That should be productive, not reproductive. Since new gingerbread men are not created from existing gingerbread men.
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
11:32
@FaheemMitha Umm.. that's kinda the point!
12:19
@Færd I'm not sure what the point is, but I was mostly commenting on the word usage.
13:05
5th criminal investigation has been opened against Yana Antonova, a pediatric surgeon in Krasnodar, Russia -- again for reposting a news in her social network account. A news report on an upcoming civil society lecture by an activist.
Putin's regime really hates people who have a sense of dignity.
@CowperKettle did that abandoned baby of the alcoholic mother fully recover?
@skullpatrol Yes, the baby was checked out of the hospital some days ago
@FaheemMitha Usage commentary should see the word in its context, generally speaking. Context is everything.
@skullpatrol Yes, I'm also happy about that
13:29
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of body (42): The Black Sea but Microsoft by Petro Ivanenko on english.SE
13:57
@skullpatrol Raiders is next.
Hi - I recently came across a strange construction and sentence. It was in a book called "The girl on the train" by Paula Hawkins : "I am picking at the plaster on my forefinger. It's damp, it got wet when I was washing out my coffee mug this morning; it feels clammy, dirty, though it was clean on this morning." As you can see, the only thing weird here is "on this morning," which made me stop
for a second and think where I would use such construction, at least in American English. So I came to a conclusion that it may be slangy or some dialect. Thanks in advance. I am looking forward to your reasoning.
@Robusto actually, the Edmonton Eskimos are next, pal
14:59
@skullpatrol The blood of the First Men runs thick in the North: call them the Edmonton Firsts.
Or the Edmonton Beacher Toots.
I like the "Firsts"...
..."Nations"
Thither I went.
Nov 26 at 21:23, by tchrist
> With a crack that startled the Erstkin from slumber, the bow of the Wreakling ship had met the hidden skerry and lost. Their foundering ship would not last the hour, nor would her hundred souls long outlive her unless the Erstkin moved faster than the storm’s wrath to whisk them ashore before she could sink beneath the hungry waves. They had left with little, and they had landed with less.
@AlexTheBN "on" seems like an unnecessary preposition here.
Isn't it an error?
could be a typo
15:07
Erstkin being the Andersaxon version of First Nations.
2
Well, how so. Is it the global bestseller.
@AlexTheBN Seems ok.
@AlexTheBN I am not well versed in American parlance, but I would say clean on is a fixed expression.
When something is clean on, that means it was clean at the time it was put on.
Or that's how I would read it.
More examples.
Very few examples in books.
15:24
@AlexTheBN No, it's not a typo; "on" has often been used to reference a particular event on a particular period of time: on one fine day, on a cloudy day in March, on my birthday, on this morning [when I got plaster on my fingernail].
@Cerberus Try just "was clean on" -"on and off"
> I could not tell you all clean, but it was clean on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
@tchrist Too many false positives.
As in your example.
My friend in Tarrytown NY received a letter explaining that millions of vaccine doses are on their way and vaccination will begin soon.
It is necessary to indicate constituent barriers.
To be anything at all "on" this morning is a bit weird.
15:27
It's not my favourite bit of idiom either.
Americans more often use adverbial adjuncts of time without a preposition than do the English.
But clean on is used.
"I last saw him Tuesday morning."
Alex suggested American English.
15:28
Versus "I lost saw him on Tuesday morning."
On Tuesday morning sounds much more modern to me than on this morning, at the level of formality given.
I definitely feel it must be clean on, not on this morning, in that passage.
@CowperKettle You have to vaccinate staff from emergency departments and critical/intensive care departments first. I doubt whether that will be enough for the entire state to do that for those people yet.
Wow - this is getting messy I didn't see that coming
@Cerberus Yes.
It's how I read it initially, and I stick with that.
@AlexTheBN Language is fun.
15:31
clean on this Monday morning
I invite anyone unaware of the idiom to compare the examples from my Google links.
The idiom is clearly uncommon. Did you know it without research?
You know exactly what they meant without research.
and so on , and so on
@AlexTheBN Yes, at least to the extent that I understood it an realised it was idiomatic.
Although I don't really like it.
15:35
on what grounds?
I don't know, it sounds too...slangy.
Folksy, perhaps.
I don't know.
I'm not familiar enough with it to have a well formed opinion.
@tchrist Yes, but it's great that at least it will start. In Russia, the industry has insufficient capacity and the local vaccine is being produced in restricted numbers.
15:49
So what's the conclusion? Slangy, incorrect? All of you seem to disagree
I suspect that I don't know what "slangy" means, but I am certain I don't know what "incorrect" means.
I think I'm unlikely to say it myself.
Sorry. Are you being rude or something?
But neither does it pose any barrier to understanding.
@AlexTheBN Would that make sense to you?
I know what it means. wtf?
Ask a linguist what "incorrect" means. Good luck.
@AlexTheBN No, would the proposition that I am being rude be something that seems likely here in the absence of evidence to the same?
You just did not understand what I said. That's something else.
Correctness is an attribute of grammar-school tests, of the English SAT exams, and of the TOEFL tests. It is not really a property of language.
16:03
Why would you bring "SAT exams" up?
Because they provide an example where correctness has some sense.
And applicability.
Oh I see
Whereas inspecting English textual corpora for evidence or using directed population surveys provides instead data on varying measures including of prevalence and of acceptability. These are not "boolean" or binary "yes-no" or "right-wrong" properties the way one typically construes "correctness" to be.
That's what Cerb did: he looked for evidence.
Sure. I can see you are a programmer due to your way of understanding - that's a compliment
K - Got it. Thanks
It's a common, and if done right, rigorous scientific approach leading towards ascertainment.
2
16:19
Dragon has launched
It's amazing how it manages to land from such a height so precisely
From a height of 80 km.
> What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
I don't know and I don't care.
beginning of july is interesting, maybe the demonstrations?
also most of europe had few deaths during the summer, season component not as pronounced in trumpland
teenage trumpland
17:31
@CowperKettle Those colours...
Very confusing.
18:30
DAMN!
I missed a grammar fight
@skullpatrol it 👏 is 👏 named 👏 BABA O'TRUMPY 👏
@tchrist I find this unremarkable, but I wouldn't say it myself.
@Cerberus For those examples of 'clean on', I read them entirely as an idiom in meaning very distinct from '(it was clean) (on this morning)'
18:56
@Mitch Which means...you read them the same way I do?
19:07
@Cerberus When you say "I would say clean on is a fixed expression." it makes me think you consider 'clean on' to be a phrasal verb, with no need for an object. I do not parse "it was clean on thrusday morning" that way at all.
I read it as 'it was clean', and then separately specifying the time by a prepositional phrase 'on Thursday morning'
I think I am reading it differently from you.
19:51
@Mitch Then, yes, you are.
How about the examples from Google?
> - She was quite unhurt, and climbed straight back up, saying, 'Don't worry, my pinny's still clean.' It was clean on, and she knew she'd catch it from her mother if it got muddy.
> - Same retro uniform as well, but this one was clean on and still smelled of fresh laundry
> - This shirt was clean on and I showered right before we came out, didn't I?
> - His long hair was more of a mess than usual but the white T-shirt he wore was clean on and looked a lot fresher than him or Dobson.
And more.
> - Now don't you go spillin' anythin' on that table cloth, it's clean on and I don't want the bother o' washin' it again yet.
On 26 November 2020, a mass general strike was held across India. The strike was organized by 10 trade unions across the country and was supported by the Indian National Congress, Communist Party of India (Marxist), and other left-wing parties. An estimated 250 million (25 crore) people took part in the strike, which Jacobin estimated as the largest in history. The strike was followed by a march to New Delhi, which arrived there on 30 November with tens of thousands of farmers surrounding Delhi, increasing to hundreds of thousands by 3 December. == Strikers' demands == The workers' unions presented...
@JohanLarsson Gosh, I missed that.
It was apparently in the papers five days ago.
yes, it is nowhere to be found in the news, it is weird
20:10
It is, but not super prominently.
it is for sure dwarfed by whatever trump does
but otoh it is only 250M striking
It is true that European media pay far too much attention to Trump.
He's not that important.
Nor that interesting.
@Cerberus Yes, those look like instances of 'clean on' as single adjective (a single constituent) and different meaning from just 'clean'. Also, as that, it is new to me.
20:30
@Cerberus On the first pass, I read (without any deep analysis): "...it was (clean) (on this morning)."
And it seemed like an awkward way to say "it was (clean) (this morning)."
But I did not know the usage that you explain.
Like Watson, perhaps I had seen, but not observed.
I feel happier with the single adjective explanation.
@Mitch OK, well, those examples have, in my opinion, the same idiom as does the passage in question.
@Conrado I agree that it would sound awkward.
Which is why it must be the idiom clean on.
@Cerberus Oh, sure, and the slight weirdness of 'on this Thursday' makes the ambiguity possible.
Perhaps the idiom has certain local or temporal limitations, which makes it seem unusual to many here.
also, it is written down, and pronounced out loud would more than likely disambiguate.
@Mitch OK.
@Mitch Yes, absolutely.
It would be clean ON.
20:35
But as I menitoined to @tchrist 'on this thursday' was unremarkable at first to me, even if I wouldn't say it. It's like "on this day many years ago", it sounds a little formal. trying to be fancy.
@Cerberus and for my natural reading "It was CLEAN, on this THURSday"
@Mitch or "It was CLEAN, on this Thursday MORNing!"
but 'clean on', by itself, is totally new to me.
@Conrado "and the FLOWRS out in BLOOM"
"when she WALKED, into the GARden"
"and DEFTly threw her SHOE"
@Mitch Yes, but it sounded odd to me because of the informal, modern context.
@Mitch YES.
6 hours ago, by Alex TheBN
Hi - I recently came across a strange construction and sentence. It was in a book called "The girl on the train" by Paula Hawkins : "I am picking at the plaster on my forefinger. It's damp, it got wet when I was washing out my coffee mug this morning; it feels clammy, dirty, though it was clean on this morning." As you can see, the only thing weird here is "on this morning," which made me stop
And don't forget that it is on this morning, not on this Thursday morning.
The latter would sound somewhat less unusual than the former.
@Cerberus doesn't change things for me
just a modifier on 'morning'
To me, on this morning doesn't match the modern, colloquial context at all. On this Thursday morning would still sound odd, but less so.
20:44
I also, totally am reading that passage like a school boy reading poetry and trying to hit the beat.
Notice also how she says I was washing out my coffee mug this morning, without on.
i am PICKing
at the PLASter
on my FOREfinger
it is DAMP
it got WET
when i ws WASHing
out my COFF
ee mug this MORning
it doesn't always work.
this
Sure... acceptable variation.
@Cerberus OK, OK, I give you the case!
20:46
'clean on' is way more weird to me than 'on this Thursday'
it feels CLAMmy
DIRty
@Mitch Then perhaps this idiom has certain regional or temporal limitations.
@Cerberus I blame the British
@Mitch I mean, you have the rather than this.
@Conrado Lovely!
The Girl on the Train is a 2015 psychological thriller novel by British author Paula Hawkins that gives narratives from three different women about relationship troubles and binge drinking. The novel debuted in the number one spot on The New York Times Fiction Best Sellers of 2015 list (print and e-book) dated 1 February 2015, and remained in the top position for 13 consecutive weeks, until April 2015. In January 2016 it became the #1 best-seller again for two weeks. Many reviews referred to the book as "the next Gone Girl", referring to a popular 2012 psychological mystery, by author Gillian Flynn...
"relationship troubles and binge drinking"
@Cerberus Oh
Not too late to edit
2
posterity will judge me accordingly
off to the re-education camps
20:50
@Mitch Edited.
@Mitch You filthy Uyghur!
Or what are you?
Intellectual?
Bespectacled?
@Cerberus 'too late to edit' edited
Such correction!
@Cerberus I'm trying to keep the record consistent with what ever changes randomly accumulate.
OMG it's barely past 3:30 and it's already getting dark.
@Cerberus Much wow.
like that dog in the picture
I mean the dog is saying it.
because dogs no good grammar
How dare you!
21:07
this one
no grammar
21:39
@Cerberus where did he say that?
I also think his conclusion is a bit silly.
I would rather say, tons of published articles in the wannabe-exact sciences do not follow the scientific method rigorously.
Those scientists are not great thinkers.
And the central issue behind the problems from his video is simply that those non-great-thinkers take p values that are much too high.
Outside the video, my own objections to those people would include a lack of true, scientific investigation into the mechanism behind a supposed statistical correlation, and perhaps also an undue assumption that all those phaenomena are normally distributed.
But his criticism is just.
So I mostly agree with the video.
@Cerberus Oh..no, he is saying -if- you replicate a study and get a stat significant result (p<.05) most journals won't publish because they don't publish what is essentially an old result (which is 'boring'; journal sonly want to publish new results).
@Mitch Hmm okay, I see.
Deleted my comment.
@Cerberus haha you don't want to delete them ... that's one of the problems... only publishing positive results
@Mitch Oops! Too late.
But I did it because I didn't want Faerd's replying to them, a wasted effort.
21:49
@Cerberus He's just repeating things that have been known and complained about in the statistical sciences forever, but have only been rediscovered or at least popularized within those sciences that use stats a lot.
The 2005 paper by Ioannidis was the big one that started the replication crisis in psychology (which is ironic because that paper was about medical research)
@Cerberus What's talked about in ELU chat stays in...
wait... aren't all SE chats google indexed?
@Mitch Yes, of course.
uh oh
@Mitch Indeed, they are...
I'll have to go back and 'editorialize' my comments about the French.
Too late...
21:51
I was just kidding!
Really.
Oh...also about the British.
The Americans?
What if what you say is ... uh... pretty close to the case?
You know how Americans are.
Tell me about them.
I've said some disparaging things about cats.
Which are all true.
@Cerberus Wait... that's not rhetorical?
1 hour ago, by Mitch
@Cerberus I blame the British
Who knows!
@Mitch On the other hand, it's Mitch's fault has a lot of hits.
21:59
but here on chat search it looks like I have a monopoly on blaming them with absolutely no qualification.
@Mitch You said "googling" ... not chat search.
@Robusto 'not ... even'. google does not seem able to find SE chat things.
or I can't get it to work, when it can.
Wevs.
Dude, you're trying to hold me to things I say, when I can barely hold my thoughts together?
@Cerberus The original 2005 article that spurred on the various replicability crises had the provocative title. I think in technical terms it is not wrong, but there it could be a bit misleading, which is probably what you're thinking.
@Mitch What am I thinking?
22:10
But it really is a call to clean up things in stats usage (instead of blindly using p-values as a threshold for publication worth).
@Cerberus you're thinking... "how does this dirty (ethnic group member) have any idea what I'm thinking?"
also you're thinking "That can't be true otherwise people would be dying left and right based on 75% of medical science studies being wrong"
@Mitch Dirty cow.
and it doesn't seem like people are dying that badly. So '75% pubs wrong' is a bit suspicious.
Not dirty in a negative sense, of course.
It's just who you are.
@Cerberus gasp
@Mitch This is what I saw as the general message of the video, with which I agree.
22:14
@Cerberus fair enough.
I'm standing in poop at this very moment.
SEARCH INDEX THAT GOOGLE
@Cerberus yeah
No, I meant his conclusion that, considering how many errors the scientific method produces, everything in life is completely uncertain.
I already explained why I think that is silly.
lot's of journals are trying to -ban- p-values, which of course (I consider) is a knee-jerk, lack of thought reaction.
I think one of the central problems does have to do with significance.
@Cerberus hm...I think he said that as 'here's something that is extreme and obviously not the case because some things are obviously predictable'
22:21
@Mitch Umm I don't understand that.
@Robusto And yet, those people do not seem to vote for candidates promising more welfare?
Jun 4 '13 at 20:31, by Mitch
@Cerberus There's no accounting for stupidity.
I think there may be some accounting.
One wonders, though, why the people of New York should have voted for Giuliani as their mayor.
@Cerberus Listening again... he's saying 'The scientific method has problems, think of how wrong we can be when we -don't- use the scientific method. Science is more reliable than not using science'
Yes, exactly.
44 mins ago, by Cerberus
I would rather say, tons of published articles in the wannabe-exact sciences do not follow the scientific method rigorously.
45 mins ago, by Cerberus
Those scientists are not great thinkers.
@Cerberus I think the question is more about how Giuliani changed from a respectable mob crushing DA to respectable Mayor to ... to crazy bumbling mob-like lawyer'
22:29
@Cerberus That is the conundrum.
I think they are bewitched by a kind of tying between unrelated issues by certain parties.
Tying (informally, product tying) is the practice of selling one product or service as a mandatory addition to the purchase of a different product or service. In legal terms, a tying sale makes the sale of one good (the tying good) to the de facto customer (or de jure customer) conditional on the purchase of a second distinctive good (the tied good). Tying is often illegal when the products are not naturally related. It is related to but distinct from freebie marketing, a common (and legal) method of giving away (or selling at a substantial discount) one item to ensure a continual flow of sales...
(and Giuliani was both praised and vilified as mayor of NY for getting the NYPD to ... what did they call it... 'stop and frisk' ... 'overactive' policing which amounted to extra racial targeting.
But I thought NY was left wing.
Giuliani was supposedly a great and respectable district attorney (main state lawyer -agains- criminals) for prosecuting a lot of mob people.
I see.
One wonders how such a lying person might have done that.
22:33
@Cerberus I think the publicity of prosecuting a bunch of mob people put him in good lights to the voters.
@Cerberus He's a super liar -now-.
people change with circumstances?
Why did he change?
Didn't one of your ancient greek or roman philosophers or maybe Shakespeare say that?
Or maybe Gilgamesh
the head Smurf.
@Cerberus I don't know... go ask his mother.
She's probably british
It would explain a lot.
Unlikely.
The British -are- inscrutable.
What with their 5 day cricket matches, gin and tonics, and genocidal atrocities explained away by incompetent buffoonery or mild mannered misunderstandings.
I'm never really sure about Veritasium. He covers a lot of science really well (like that thing @Færd just posted) but I'm never sure if I'm just filling in the blanks for him? Seems like a petty thing to think, but, there, I thought it.
What do you mean?
All I can say is that his name is stupid, sounds uneducated.
22:47
@Cerberus I can never pronunce it right. Veritaserum, ome potion from Harry Potter?
Still wrong.
Just don't bother.
@Cerberus In science educators/journalists I sorta treat them like scientists and do all the 'check your work' stuff that you do when reading a paper or calculation. '5 + 7 = 14... wait that's 12 oh but we're talking octal so it's OK'
Make a userscript to erase it.
Don't know how to pronounce it, so I won't.
For a few years during Carter's administration we didn't have a National Security Advisor because his name was 'Zbigniew Brzezinski'. Can't pronounce it, it doesn't exist.
Ouch.

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