English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

12:33 AM

@TerranSwett Yeah, I've been thinking on it.

I asked the poster to clarify what he's actually interested in here.

"To be said to sneak out after dark" has two infinitives already. It's already complicated.

Robusto

In "to be going to" to be is still just an infinitive.

tchrist

The first one looks a bit passive too.

@Robusto Yeah. I don't know that he is doing himself any favors here by inventing fancy names.

Robusto

One Woman, 17 British Accents - Anglophenia Ep 5

►

tchrist

Yeah, I know that one. it's okish.

1. infinitive: to hold him responsible
2. perfect infinitive: to have held him responsible
3. passive infinitive: (for) him to be held responsible
4. perfect passive infinitive: (for) him to have been held responsible

That's about all we have in English for fiddling with infinitives.

Latin actually uses a bit of inflectional morphology for some of those, although it still uses compound forms for half of them.

1. present active infinitive: putare
2. perfect active infinitive: putavisse
3. future active infinitive: putaturum esse (That’s the future active participle of “deem” followed by the present active infinitive of “be”.)
4. present passive infinitive: putari
5. perfect passive infinitive: putatum esse (That’s the future passive participle of “deem” followed by the present active infinitive of “be”.)
6. future passive infinitive: putatum iri (That’s the future passive participle of “deem” followed by the present passive infinitive of “go”.)

And Portuguese can inflect infinitives for number and person.

The infinitive in English — such as be, have, go, or hold — is morphologically inert: it lacks any vestige of inflectional morphology. Try as you may, you cannot fiddle its internal bits to produce some alternate form of the base verb that now expresses traits like its person or number, time or mood, voice or aspect, or even its grammatical relationships with other syntactic constituents.

It’s not that English is incapable of expressing those in its infinitives. You just have to include extra words along them whenever you want to apply one of those traits to your infinitives.

I used puto as in Terrence’s Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto, meaning “I am human: I deem nothing human alien to me.”

M.A.R.

theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/jul/06/… -- uh, WTF? Is this satire?

tchrist

12:44 AM

Or if not "deem", you can think of it as "hold" or "think" or "consider".

Phallogocentrism

In critical theory and deconstruction, phallogocentrism is a neologism coined by Jacques Derrida to refer to the privileging of the masculine (phallus) in the construction of meaning. The word is a portmanteau of the older terms phallocentrism (focusing on the masculine point of view) and logocentrism (focusing on language in assigning meaning to the world). Derrida and others identified phonocentrism, or the prioritizing of speech over writing, as an integral part of phallogocentrism. Derrida explored this idea in his essay "Plato's Pharmacy". == Background == In contemporary literary a...

Robusto

@tchrist Yeah, but doorways are so ... vaginal.

tchrist

@Robusto Stargate? Wormholes? Black holes?

Robusto

I rest my case.

M.A.R.

@tchrist I uh um but uh, erm

tchrist

2001: A Space Obelisk

@M.A.R. These nutjobs be craaaaaaaaazeeee!

M.A.R.

12:50 AM

Maybe I'll wake up in the morning and find out I dreamed these

It's kinda good to know where to stand.

tchrist

Remember: The opposite of a black hole is a white fountain.

M.A.R.

@tchrist So visually suggestive

tchrist

@M.A.R. Pas moi!

Speaking of which, have you read Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun yet?

It's about bringing a white fountain to restore Earth's dying sun being poisoned by a little black hole planted there by mankind's foes.

Although good luck figuring that out on your first read without my having told you this. :)

Robusto

The Ancient Greek Kithara

►

tchrist

@Robusto Psalmistry.

M.A.R.

12:57 AM

@tchrist I'm scared of touching Gene Wolfe books. I probably need to expand my vocab size to twice what it is now to be able to enjoy his stuff, or so I think.

tchrist

@M.A.R. It will grow you.

M.A.R.

That phallogocentrist

tchrist

cítara

Noun: cítara f (plural cítaras)

zither (musical instrument)
cítara f (plural cítaras)
zither (musical instrument)

Robusto

Yeah. This guy takes that to the next level.

tchrist

Kithara and cítara kind of sound like each other.

Robusto

1:00 AM

And guitar is in there as well.

tchrist

Doublets.

M.A.R.

I'm sure it will, but it's a saying in Persian that goes like "a big rock is a sign that you won't hit anything with it".

Robusto

The music he plays toward the end is quite fetching.

Singing along as well.

tchrist

cithara

Noun: cithara (plural citharas or citharai)

An ancient Greek stringed instrument, which could be considered a forerunner of the guitar.
cithara f (genitive citharae); first declension
(music) cithara, lyre, lute, guitar

I'm listening.

He's saying [kiˈθaɾa]; the Spanish say [ˈθit̪aɾa] for that word.

Robusto

He has this video as well:

The Epic Of Gilgamesh In Sumerian

►

Funny how many 3-string plucked instruments there are. This gishgudi, the Russian balalaika, the Japanese shamisen ...

tchrist

1:05 AM

Wonder whether that's rooted in dactylic physiology or in the physics of acoustics.

Robusto

Good question.

M.A.R.

Pedestrians in Europe.

Robusto

That reminds me of this:

2

Which illustrates one of the flaws of how some people use graphs poorly to present data.

@M.A.R. I guess the Polish pedestrian doesn't really go anywhere, huh?

M.A.R.

Everyone is running away from the Polish

Except giant Latvians

Which seem a bit small there

Robusto

1:24 AM

Them Latvians ain't all they're cracked up to be. Or maybe they're just afraid of their giant women.

M.A.R.

I know you hate memes but

That Reddit thread was filled with Dutch swearing, heh

Robusto

THE OLDEST SONG IN THE WORLD

►

tchrist

1:59 AM

@M.A.R. Wow those all sound exactly alike!

@M.A.R. The poles seem not be pedestrianizing at all.

Funny how most of them have no shoes.

No wonder they call it the Ocean-sea, or the water hemisphere.

It's almost like "ocean" is just as much of a political imposition as "continent" is.

We're really yucky now.

tchrist

2:26 AM

Smells like a campfire outside.

Robusto

3:59 AM

@tchrist Some call it Earthsea.

@tchrist Clear here.

But PM2.5 is at 79 now. Weird.

PM10 at 51.

CowperKettle

6:15 AM

> The information contained in this document, particularly unpublished data, is the property or under control of CompanyName Ltd., and is provided to you in confidence for review.

What is the exact meaning of for review? Does it always mean "so that you read and provide your verdict or opinion on it", or maybe it can sometimes/often mean "so that you read and get acquainted with the document"?

I'm not sure how to translate this phrase into Russian. We have "для проверки" (to read and give your verdict) and "для ознакомления" (to get acquainted without providing any verdict or comments).

Would this be a good question for the main site?

I found out that iPods are still sold. I wonder why on earth would anybody buy them. They look just like iPhone 5 without the phoning function.

One could buy an Android phone with a huge memory bank for the same money, and use it as a player.

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto Yes, Indian women are small. Except the film actresses. They're not. But they also don't look much like typical Indian women.

CowperKettle

6:32 AM

They will catch up, probably, with better nutrition that's now available.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle You need money for better nutrition. The nutrition is available, but not the money.

CowperKettle

India's economy is growing at a mindboggling pace. And there is so much sunlight. You could install a lot of photovoltaic stations and have lots of energy.

Faheem Mitha

Much of India doesn't know where it's next meal is coming from.

CowperKettle

And there are mountains and mountain rivers. You can install wind stations and hydrostations.

In 2018, the economy grew by 7%. That's just huge.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle Actually, I'm not sure what news you're reading, but the Indian economy is on the verge of collapse. And the govt is bankrupt. In large part because of its own incompetence. They recently lowered corporate taxes. And deleted a tax on the super rich. 2%, I think.

CowperKettle

6:35 AM

@FaheemMitha Very sad to hear that!

@FaheemMitha That's bad. I feel that taxes should be progressive, with the richer contributing more, and the poorer contributing less.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle This whole "economy growing" thing is a bunch of malarkey. It mostly means that rich people are growing richer.

That's true everywhere, not just India. But it's particularly grotesque in India.

CowperKettle

In Russia, richer are also growing super-rich, the economy has been severely skewed. Something should be done about this.

Faheem Mitha

The Indian govt was supposed to give the states some money as a share of GST, per a pre-existing arrangement. They told the states they didn't have the money.

That's some quality financial management, right there.

CowperKettle

Maybe some countries are just too huge, that makes them harder to govern and adapt.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle People are trying. But other people persist in voting for dangerous idiots.

@CowperKettle That's not particularly the problem in India. Yes, it's big. But there are many other problems.

CowperKettle

6:38 AM

nods

Faheem Mitha

But in general, I agree, large countries are harder to manage.

CowperKettle

What I know is that translators in Russia never agree to work for Indian translation bureaus, because for some reason Indian companies tend to cheat and swindle them out of their salaries. They have generally the worst reputation in the translation labor market.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle Yes, fraud is a huge thing in India. But I would have thought it was a problem in Russia too.

CowperKettle

Yes, Russian companies also try to get your labor on the cheap. )))

Faheem Mitha

None of this stuff for India (at least) is new. The RSS-backed govt had made things worse, but these are all pre-existing conditions.

I suppose the same is true for other countries.

I think clean/green energy is growing quite fast in India, for obvious reasons. But I don't know the specifics.

I know that dreadful Adani creature's company is in the news a lot, especially recently.

Adani Green Energy, I think.

CowperKettle

12:20 PM

@FaheemMitha I read great news about how they install solar panels on top of railway carriages, so that the passengers can have air conditioning and lights coming from solar energy.

That's great. In Russia, the sun would be too weak I'm afraid.

CowperKettle

1:54 PM

I am generally not tired enough to fall down after 30 km, but there's one problem. My muscles below the knees start to feel tired out.

Maybe there are special exercises to build up your calf muscles and the muscles that move the feet, in order to extend the running range.

I feel that after about 35 km it would be very, very hard to run. The lower parts of the legs lose their ability to spring and cushion. The pace becomes more shuffling, so to speak.

Robusto

2:14 PM

@CowperKettle There are such exercises. Also make sure you stretch those muscles, and not just before a run.

Understand also that if you don't work up to a distance like 30 km—a considerable distance for a runner—you can easily get an injury.

When your muscles are exhausted they're not holding the knee and other joints in their proper alignment, and that spells trouble.

RegDwigнt

@M.A.R. haha that is fucking brilliant.

I've heard of that quote before, maybe somewhere early this spring? Why is it making the rounds again.

skullpatrol

It's been a long year?

RegDwigнt

Obviously the author has never been to any Bavarian village or some such. Where the architecture is every bit as feminist as they desire, but the woman is supposed to do the dishes and raise the kids and shut the fuck up on any matters important.

tchrist

Am I just being obtuse here, or do we really not know what this person is asking about?

Welcome to our site! Don't forget to see our tour and How to Ask. I'm afraid that your question does not contain enough context for us to be able to provide a sensible answer. What sort of answer might you give someone who asked what the build time or building time happened to be? Do you mean the overall duration it takes for something to get built? Do you mean the single point in time at which construction will begin? Do you mean the time of day shown by a particular building's clock? Something else? Please edit your post to tell us. — tchrist ♦ 2 mins ago

RegDwigнt

@skullpatrol it could've been longer. They should've extended the quarantine for another twenty months. Imagine all the stuff we could've accomplished in that much free time.

tchrist

2:28 PM

@RegDwigнt That should be nine quarantines (40 × 9 = 360).

RegDwigнt

@tchrist certainly you've been around for long enough to foresee the plot twist of them not even knowing it themselves.

Robusto

@tchrist I thought build time was the time it took for your project to compile.

tchrist

@Robusto No kidding.

RegDwigнt

You can also build time out of LEGO. Can be a verb.

And I visit this building time and time again.

tchrist

Or save it in a bottle.

Robusto

2:30 PM

@RegDwigнt Them's all about the KKK: Kinder, Küche, Kirche.

skullpatrol

With a message

tchrist

“Which sense of time? Which sense of build? Which sense of building?”

RegDwigнt

@Robusto very much so.

Bonus fact: every break room in every German office reads "K&K" at the door. Kaffee und Kuchen.

tchrist

@Robusto The user has had an SO account for two years now. It might well be the compilation duration.

RegDwigнt

I need to reboot this machine or at least the browser because half the words are disappearing again.

Robusto

2:32 PM

As a further elucidation, build time is the time you get to fuck off and go online to answer dumb questions on EL&U.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt The top halves or the bottom halves?

'Are you stealing those LCDs?' 'Yeah, but I'm doing it while my code compiles.'

Robusto

That is the reference, yes.

I never actually got into any sword fights, though

tchrist

You mean there's a difference between saying time builds like a pyramid and saying time builds with a stopwatch?

Robusto

> In Tokyo, trains have carriages set aside at particular times for women, disabled people, children and carers.

That smacks of "separate but equal" I think.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Which is why German Scrabble games are always so heiss coring.

@Robusto My unreflected reflex is to to be unsure whether that's so.

Robusto

2:43 PM

I wonder about lumping women together with disabled people.

Is being female a disability?

Perhaps.

skullpatrol

Depends

Robusto

It is when it comes to peeing outdoors.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto which Latin American country is it that just has separate carriages for women? Not Saudi Arabia, mind. Latin America.

tchrist

What's a carer's vulnerability here?

RegDwigнt

I think it might be Mexico, actually.

Robusto

2:45 PM

@RegDwigнt IDK.

@tchrist Having to ride herd over children?

tchrist

@RegDwigнt They've invoked the ancient enchantment, Circle of Protection from Machismo, Ten-Yard Radius.

RegDwigнt

There's not too many of them that have underground trains to begin wtih. And in the video I saw it was the metro.

tchrist

@Robusto Childcare not eldercare? What about zookeepers?

Robusto

Search me.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist everyone observes the segregation, mind. You try and cross the line on the platform, you get beat up by furious men and women alike.

tchrist

2:47 PM

@RegDwigнt In Japan or Mexico?

RegDwigнt

Mexico. Japan is for Rob to handle.

This chat room observes strict segregation, too.

tchrist

awaits nipped in the bud

Segregation is next to sacramentation.

Robusto

Actually, it's probably a good idea, considering the すけべ behavior that goes on on the Tokyo subway system.

tchrist

And now we know how to say wanking in Japanese.

Robusto

More like frottage. Train cars are too packed for wanking, I suspect.

RegDwigнt

2:52 PM

МексЭтноЭксп. День 3. Метро Мехико. Селфи 29 лет спустя

►

There you go. Link to timestamp.

Mexico City.

Robusto

すけべ just means "lewd" or "perverse." It is a scolding term.

RegDwigнt

The first two and the last two carriages on any train are reserved for women.

That guy with the blue hair has visited every country and territory in existence. The only Russian who has done so so far. He comments that the only places he remembers that had something similar were India and the Arab Emirates.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I guess that makes the four-car trains the best.

Also those with fewer than four cars.

RegDwigнt

The downside, as the lady comments, is that if you want a free seat, fuck you cuz other women don't care about giving you theirs. You want gentlemenly behaviour, you have to ride with the gents.

Robusto

RegDwigнt

2:58 PM

Why yes, I don't mind if I do.

Robusto

One may suppose that pouring potato chips on your crotch while looking at porn mags is a form of masturbation.

RegDwigнt

To be fair, in most Japanese homes you wouldn't have the space.

You kinda do need the trains for that.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Same for the subway, at least in rush hour.

RegDwigнt

Then the image is fake news!

OMG.

tchrist

3:10 PM

@Robusto Jack in the Box for the win.

Robusto

3:21 PM

@tchrist That's like saying E. Coli ftw.

Faheem Mitha

3:42 PM

@CowperKettle Do you have a link? I've not heard of anything like this.

CowperKettle

4:18 PM

> A 2019 poll made by Center for the Governance of Change at IE University in Spain showed that 25% of citizens from selected European countries are somewhat or totally in favor of letting an artificial intelligence make important decisions about the running of their country.

@FaheemMitha No, I read it long time ago, this summer))

Faheem Mitha

@Robusto In Bombay there are separate train carriages and sometimes entire trains just for women.

Possibly that is the case across India, but I don't know.

I believe this is somewhat unusual internationally. I've never encountered anything like this in the West, but I don't travel much.

@CowperKettle Ok.

They call them "Ladies Specials". And they apparently exist because assaults on women in Bombay trains are so common (or used to be). Maybe they still aren't. I don't know.

RegDwigнt

4:51 PM

2

Q: What is the most vulgar word one could use when describing "LIFE" and a phrase for an "ALL-HATING GOD"

I am writing a play and have reached the conclusion where the main character utters a soliloquy of just how "despicably stupid" the concept of "living" and reaching the heights of "happiness" is. Everything has lead up to this most severe moment and thus I am in need of some personal insight. I w...

Certainly the most vulgar word you could use when describing X is the most vulgar word you can think of, period.

If I am writing a play, about matters as grand as God and fate and life itself, no less, and I am not aware of the existence of any vulgar words, surely I should not be in the business of writing plays, but in the business of reading a dictionary.

Life is a cunt.

There you go. Easy.

RegDwigнt

5:13 PM

@tchrist nice try, flat earther! We all know your capital is in Colorado.

On that note, here's a cool recent video:

In Search Of A Flat Earth

►

And here's just the experiment alone, with additional footage and more in-depth explanation:

The Minnewanka Curve Experiment [2K/1440p]

►

It's really quite amazing. I never realized there was a place on Earth where you could see the curvature of the globe with your naked eye just by doing a couple situps.

Cerberus

Or you could just climb any tallish building near the sea?

Like, oh, a lighthouse?

RegDwigнt

Yes, sure.

But then the movement is not as smooth, and you keep looking away at the stairs and everything.

When you do situps, you can stay focused on a tree or a boat throughout. And see how the visible part of it smoothly increases and decreases in size as you go.

Also, if you look at the maths, the beauty of this particular spot is that the other shore is just far enough away that the difference in the field of view is that of an adult person, but not any further away, meaning that climbing a tower would not change how much you can see of the opposite beach.

It would not reveal any more of the hidden thing, you'd just see it from higher above.

CowperKettle

5:29 PM

@FaheemMitha No, in Russia there are no specialized carriages for women. Some 4-person compartments in long-distance trains are strictly for women, but that is a feature, for those who prefer it.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle I didn't specifically mention Russia, but good to know.

The trains I mentioned are a regular thing, and are fairly visible. I've accidentally got into them on a number of occasions. People yell at you. It's quite annoying.

I haven't travelled in Bombay trains for a while, even before the pandemic happened, so my knowledge may be out of date.

CowperKettle

5:46 PM

There was a horrible story in India several years back, when a girl was severely raped on a bus.

So maybe it's a way to protect women.

Faheem Mitha

@CowperKettle That sort of thing happens here all the time. It's also likely it's severely under-reported for a number of reasons.

Obviously, good statistics are hard to come by anywhere, but India is something else.

@CowperKettle If you mean the special trains, clearly it is.

tchrist

6:20 PM

0

A: Is there such a thing as a future infinitive in English?

Future Infinitives? I don’t mean to detract from the clarity and correctness of Peter Shor’s answer. You should use what he said to use here. I’d like to address the theoretical notion of “future infinitives” in English. Mind you, Ancient Latin did have infinitives inflected for tense and voice, ...

My work here is done.

Faheem Mitha

6:42 PM

@tchrist "more combinatorially expressive" is my new favorite expression.

Of course, a separate question is how that arose.

tchrist

7:04 PM

@FaheemMitha I weighed writing that as combinatorically.

Robusto

7:32 PM

@RegDwigнt Not particularly vulgar in Australia.

SmokeDetector

8:17 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, mostly punctuation marks in body (121): Help with the sentence flow and grammar ✏️ by xyf on english.SE

tchrist

8:39 PM

I wonder whether this will provoke loud dissent:

0

A: Is working in this context an adverb?

A Very Interesting Idea Here’s a very interesting idea for you: working is ɴᴇɪᴛʜᴇʀ an adjective ɴᴏʀ an adverb there! Permit me to demonstrate. Unlike verbs, adjectives can be modified by intensifiers like truly, pretty, awfully, or very. An interesting idea is an idea that’s very interesting. So...

Cerberus

8:53 PM

I've posted some comments.

skullpatrol

The dissent in your comments were not as loud as I was expecting.

~~were~~ was

:-/

Cerberus

Haha hello there.

Robusto

9:09 PM

RegDwigнt

9:24 PM

@Robusto easy fix: don't release your play in Australia.

They don't go to the theatre anyway.

Robusto

makes notes

skullpatrol

isn't Sydney known for its opera house (reopened after 2 years)

Robusto

9:40 PM

Yes.

tchrist

10:06 PM

Kids need to read more.

0

A: Why is the word "slain" a past participle of "slay"?

Slay has always been a “strong” verb The reason that we today say slay, slew, slain is that it was originally a perfectly normal strong class 6 verb in Old English. Strong verbs are those that show their past tense with a vowel mutation, like know, knew instead of *knowed which would be a weak ve...

tchrist

10:33 PM

@Robusto OCTOBER SURPRISE. The Times is always early. :)

> The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due. Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

It's a long article I haven't at all finished reading yet. But wow just wow.

skullpatrol

His casino background is coming back to haunt him.

tchrist

> The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office.

Bet he's raging madly.

skullpatrol

yup

tchrist

The interesting thing is that it goes all the way up to his first two years in office. That means it can't be from his niece's court case from a couple decades back.

Færd

I don't know if it's going to change anybody's opinion of him. It's out there in everybody's face: he's a massive fraud. If you haven't gotten that already, your opinion is unlikely to swing based on some tax returns.

But it may help with people on the fence.

.

On another note:

> Linda is 31 years old, single, outspoken, and very bright. She majored in philosophy. As a student, she was deeply concerned with issues of discrimination and social justice, and also participated in anti-nuclear demonstrations.

Which is more probable?

A. Linda is a bank teller.
B. Linda is a bank teller and is active in the feminist movement.

tchrist

10:42 PM

@Færd Oh I know. These guys aren't changing horsies. Neither are the traitors in the Senate.

skullpatrol

Don't forget Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion. @tchrist

tchrist

@skullpatrol Some crimes have no statute of limitations.

@Færd The former of course.

Færd

@tchrist Nice you didn't fall for it :)

Conjunction fallacy

The conjunction fallacy (also known as the Linda problem or the Vadacchino Principle) is a formal fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that specific conditions are more probable than a single general one. == Definition and basic example == The most often-cited example of this fallacy originated with Amos Tversky and Daniel Kahneman. Although the description and person depicted are fictitious, Amos Tversky's secretary at Stanford was named Linda Covington, and he named the famous character in the puzzle after her. Linda is 31 years old, single, outspoken, and very bright. She majored in...

tchrist

I'm a programmer.

Færd

Yeah that helps

tchrist

10:45 PM

Saying if A is always going to be less constrained than saying if A and also B is, and less computationally costly.

Færd

Right

@tchrist The polls are more favorable towards Biden than they were to Clinton at the same point four years ago. Thanks to the pandemic?

tchrist

@Færd In part.

Færd

Silver lining

tchrist

There is a simple question that always dominates: Are you better off today than you were four years ago?

Færd

Yeah the pandemic spelled doom for the economy as well.

They're still tied among men 😱

tchrist

10:53 PM

@Færd In brick-stupid old uneducated white men, you mean. :)

Færd

How come women are ahead then

And solidly so

tchrist

Trivial.

Because women are grossed out by brutish pigs.

Færd

I wonder what would happen if he was a woman. Maybe the reverse.

tchrist

"Locker room talk" my ass.

@Færd Name a female dictator.

Færd

But it's hard to be that flagrantly shameless as a woman

@tchrist I dunno this new judge that's being appointed could be a tiny dictator

tchrist

10:56 PM

Lady Stepford?

Yeah.

I really shouldn't be so casual with my ancient casual references with folks who aren't old white guys like me.

Especially young foreigners.

Færd

Haha I haven't learned her name yet. I hope she never becomes so consequential that I need to learn her name.

tchrist

I didn't use her name. That's the point.

Færd

Yeah I got that much. Just not the exact reference.

I'm not that young tho.

tchrist

The Stepford Wives

The Stepford Wives is a 1972 satirical thriller novel by Ira Levin. The story concerns Joanna Eberhart, a photographer and young mother who suspects the submissive housewives in her new idyllic Connecticut neighborhood may be robots created by their husbands. The book has had two feature film adaptations, both using the same title as the novel: the 1975 version, and the 2004 remake. Edgar J. Scherick produced the 1975 version, as well as all three of the made-for-television sequels. Scherick was posthumously credited as producer on the 2004 remake. In a March 27, 2007, letter to The New York Times...

Are you that young? I remember it coming out.

Færd

I'm ~32

I'm past my prime

lol

tchrist

11:00 PM

Grandma said folks in their 30s are still young but they don't know it yet, and won't until it's long past.

Færd

But I don't follow Hollywood that closely

tchrist

Good.

Færd

Ah she may be right...

Cerberus

@Færd One wonders about those 65+.

Old people usually lean right.

But not now?

tchrist

@Cerberus Old people don't want to adapt to change. They've spent their entire lives doing that. Now he's forcing them to do so. They don't like that.

> All of the information The Times obtained was provided by sources with legal access to it.

Which means who exactly, eh? His accountants? The IRS? Some U.S. House of Representatives chairman? MELANIA HOW COULD YOU!

You know it isn't the House.

It's hard to believe it's the IRS. They deliberately hid all his records from nearly everyone four years ago so it couldn't leak.

M.A.R.

11:15 PM

@tchrist aw yiss

tchrist

And these definitely aren't from a leaked FinCEN report this time around, either.

M.A.R.

Schadenfreude has never been so freude.

tchrist

Beethoven Symphony No. 9 - Mvt. 4 - Barenboim/West-Eastern Divan Orchestra

►

M.A.R.

> Indeed, his financial condition when he announced his run for president in 2015 lends some credence to the notion that his long-shot campaign was at least in part a gambit to reanimate the marketability of his name.

tchrist

Dat dere's die Freude aller Freuden for ya.

@M.A.R. Yep. It was just a marketing gimmick.

M.A.R.

11:24 PM

So, in my odd attempt at employing Occam's shaving belongings, a guy had a crazy Hollywood sorta bonkers idea that to regain some lost fame, he has to run for president. He employs some TV host tactics, and impacts a sensational and stupid crowd more than he ever could have anticipated. Now his pride never lets him back down, so he just keeps digging further and further.

tchrist

The Producers (2005 film)

The Producers is a 2005 American musical comedy film directed by Susan Stroman and written by Mel Brooks and Thomas Meehan based on the eponymous 2001 Broadway musical, which in turn was based on Brooks's 1967 film of the same name starring Zero Mostel, Gene Wilder and Andreas Voutsinas. The film stars an ensemble cast led by Nathan Lane, Matthew Broderick, Uma Thurman, Will Ferrell, Gary Beach, Roger Bart, and Jon Lovitz. Creature effects were provided by Jim Henson's Creature Shop. The film was released in the United States by Universal Pictures and Columbia Pictures in a limited release ...

M.A.R.

I mean, people often suspect that he's just a whistleblower and doesn't have the guts to even be the bad stuff he claims he is, but this is a whole different thing. That every single outrageous thing he has said is an elaborate red herring fueled by what was already there, the divide

@tchrist if this weren't 2020 I would simply have dismissed this train of thought as too theatrical

tchrist

@M.A.R. He has no subtlety. He cannot think with his mouth close. What you see is what you get.

M.A.R.

@tchrist wat ze fook

I wouldn't have been surprised if even der Fuhrer's outrageousness wasn't original

tchrist

Relying only upon our con-man-detection instinct, in our hearts we always knew all this, every bit of it. But now we know The Rest of the Story, in black and white and read all over.

@M.A.R. Fancy that.

> Furious at ~~Roger~~ Donald for making the ~~play~~ presidential campaign successful, ~~Max~~ Melania angrily confronts ~~Roger~~ her husband for his actions, and even goes as far to physically torture ~~Carmen~~ Ivanka.

I always knew this was just the plotline of the The Producers writ large upon our national canvas.

They wouldn't have paid much attention to his finances if he'd lost per the original plot and plan.

Færd

11:36 PM

@Cerberus Maybe it's about Medicare. It's their lifeline.

tchrist

@Færd Medicare cannot save you from the Crown's Poison, and 80% of its deaths thus far are from that demographic.

M.A.R.

> He once boasted that his tax returns were “very big” and “beautiful.”

Færd

@tchrist Ah yes and they're hit hardest by COVID.

M.A.R.

Haha, I'm just gonna head to sleep now.

tchrist

@M.A.R. Play the 4th of the 9th. It will bring you joy, whether schaden or otherwise.

Cerberus

11:41 PM

@tchrist But why old people, but not somewhat younger people?

tchrist

@Cerberus Why what now? Why do old people die more often than young people?

I can see that you need to sell life insurance.

Cerberus

@Færd It could be that, or Trump's way of dealing with the epidemic.

@tchrist Look at the image Faerd posted.

tchrist

Yes yes but what is the exact question?

Cerberus

The 65+.

This is what one would expect.

Robusto

@tchrist I saw that earlier, even though I've been trying to avoid the news lately. It is good, but nothing we didn't already know. And it won't change a Trump-dolt's mind.

But among the more pleasant news items.

Færd

11:46 PM

@Cerberus Right. But now that I have you, do you know any words in English with the same diminutive suffix as the one in ζῴδιον (zṓidion)?

Don't rummage too hard. It's not that important.

Cerberus

Uhh.

It is the standard Greek diminutive suffix.

tchrist

@Robusto And for a long time. Remember how plangently you recently cried out about why things keep getting worse.

Sep 19 at 1:05, by Robusto

How can things just keep getting worse?

Robusto

@tchrist Well, for the record, this plangency was about Ginsburg.

tchrist

I know.

@Færd Accordion?

Robusto

And I'd rather have Ginsburg back than a New York Times exposé that will be decried as "fake news" ... that said, however, it is a ray of sunshine.

tchrist

11:50 PM

Don't worry, I'm saving the celebratory fireworks, trust me.

Færd

@tchrist I guess not!

@Cerberus Very well. I wanted to learn it from English words. Zodiac alone would suffice.

tchrist

@Færd Enchiridion then, so there! :)

Færd

Bingo! But I didn't know that word before!

tchrist

The OED has 24 headwords that mention -ιδιον in their etymologies.

Færd

That's how a good dictionary classifies entries.

tchrist

11:54 PM

Nearly all went through Latin first and got it switched over to -idium while it was en route.

But not quite all.

Færd

Iridium?

Cerberus

@Færd merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deltidium

@tchrist Good one.

Færd

@Cerberus A bit uncommon, but now I've learned how it evolved through Latin!

tchrist

> 1 aecidium, n. 1751 …e ( oἶκος house (see oecist) + -ίδιον -idium; misprinted in Hill ( 1…
2 Bacteridium, n. 1876 …odern Latin, bacterium + Greek -ιδιον diminutive ending; compare a…
3 basidium, n. 1858 …ern Latin, Greek βάσις, base + -ιδιον diminutive ending….
4 Clostridium, n. 1884 …) 23), Greek κλωστήρ spindle + -ιδιον diminutive suffix. Biology….
5 Codium, n. 1797 … fleece, of unknown origin + -ίδιον -idium. Botany….
6 enchiridion, n. 1541 …χείρ hand + diminutive suffix -ιδιον . A handbook or manual; a concise…

Cerberus

@Færd Yeah, almost all words from Greek came to English via Latin.

@tchrist Nice list. Where did you get that?

Færd

11:58 PM

From the OED

Cerberus

The suffix in the OED or something?

Right.

Færd

So Iridium is not relevant

Cerberus