English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Jez

00:10

ugh

i was watching the replay of the Wimbledon final and it was fine, and then they had to go and show a shot of Alex Salmond's ugly mug

MetaEd

The discussion of fables is a little hard to pick out: what's the question?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd I think the question was does a fable require that it have talking animals in order to be a fable

Wikipedia says that if the actors are human then it's a parable, if they're anthropomorphized non-humans then it's a fable.

Cerberus

That matches my general feeling.

MetaEd

Wikipedia is overrationalizing. Fables weren't closely associated with animals until Aesop, according to OEtmD.

Cerberus

@MetaEd I think the word didn't even exist in Æsop's time.

MetaEd

00:22

A fable is a parable if it is written to make a moral point.

Cerberus

It only came about with ehm...I forgot.

MetaEd

Nice ae.

Cerberus

Autocorrection.

Apparently it knows Æsop.

I don't even need to type a capital.

MetaEd

fable (n.) c.1300, "falsehood, lie, pretense," from O.Fr. fable (12c.) "story, fable, tale; fiction, lie, falsehood," from L. fabula "story, play, fable, narrative, account, tale," lit. "that which is told," related to fari "speak, tell," from PIE root *bha- (2) "speak" (see fame).

Sense of "animal story" (early 14c.) comes from Aesop. In modern folklore terms, defined as "a short, comic tale making a moral point about human nature, usually through animal characters behaving in human ways." Most trace to Greece or India.

What are you using for autocorrection?

Cerberus

"Comes from Æsop"?

What does that mean?

He was long dead.

@MetaEd An Autohotkey script.

MetaEd

00:26

Aesop wrote a bunch of fables featuring animal characters. That was novel.

Ah.

Cerberus

Called AutoCorrect.ahk. I didn't make it.

@MetaEd Talking animals are much older...

MetaEd

Sure. What this is saying is that the sense of being specifically an animal story attached itself to the word "fable" because of Aesop's stories.

Cerberus

His stories encompass the archetypical fables as the word is used now, that much is true.

MetaEd

Not that animal stories were invented by him.

Whether or not OEtmD is right on this, I don't know. But that's what it's saying.

Cerberus

When did "fable" come to refer to animals specifically in English/Dutch/etc.? Even now, I must say the connection is not that strong, even less so in Dutch.

@MetaEd It doesn't say anything about Æsop specifically...

And English still has fabulous, fabled...

Neither of which is about animals.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

00:31

@Cerberus Those words don't need to be about animals for fable to be about animals

And when is Aesop supposed to have lived? Long enough ago that we can probably say that whatever classification they used doesn't have to be the same as the one we use now

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I'm just saying the connection is not extremely strong.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 "They" spoke Greek.

And the word fabula didn't refer to animals specifically in Latin.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus but we're not speaking Latin now

Cerberus

And?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So etymology != meaning. If the modern meaning of "fable" is "story with a moral with anthropomorphized non-humans", what difference does it make if that's a recent innovation of the meaning of the word?

Cerberus

Do you know what we were talking about?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

00:40

whether or not a fable has to have talking non-humans

Cerberus

Not really.

MetaEd

@Cerberus I quoted the entire OEtmD entry, which demonstrably mentions Aesop specifically. What are you talking about?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, that's what I'm talking about, what are YOU talking about

Cerberus

@MetaEd Oh, that part is part of the quotation too.

MetaEd

Yeah, sorry -- it was too long for one message.

Cerberus

00:49

We are agreed that Æsop's fables are the archetypical fables. Other fables that resemble his are/were very likely to also contain talking animals. So it is apparently in the 14th century that the connection between the word "fabula" (or whichever reflex the dictionary refers to) and talking animals was made, based on Æsop's and similar stories.

Did you mean anything beyond that?

I'm not sure any more what we were talking about.

MetaEd

@Cerberus I would say the connection between the word "fable". Apparently it was an English word a century before the connection to Aesop.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I have no idea what you mean. I think we are talking on different wave lengths.

MetaEd

What I'm saying is that "fable" predated by a century the meaning "animal story".

Cerberus

@MetaEd The dictionary is not entirely clear, but is what it could mean.

In any case, this connection is not limited to English at all.

MetaEd

It's perfectly clear to me. Of course my opinions may change but never the fact that I am right.

3

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

00:52

3 hours ago, by Kevin Duke

Do fables have to include talking animals or will talking objects such as desks suffice?

Cerberus

@MetaEd Of course.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3 hours ago, by Mitch

@KevinDuke If Aesop's are considered the canonical definition of fables, I'm sure there are some that involve just plain old humans. like maybe 'crying wolf'? But as Cerb says, a talkin non-human works just fine as long as it is interesting and maybe has something to do with the properties of the talking object.

31 mins ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Wikipedia says that if the actors are human then it's a parable, if they're anthropomorphized non-humans then it's a fable.

30 mins ago, by MetaEd

Wikipedia is overrationalizing. Fables weren't closely associated with animals until Aesop, according to OEtmD.

@Cerberus Is it clear now?

Cerberus

What are you disagreeing with me about?

Not that I want you to disagree with me.

On the contrary.

Mitch

01:29

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Wikipedia is a load of horse twaddle. If it said that 2+2=4, I'd start to question it.

I mean that in the best possible way.

Cerberus

Which is...

Mahnax

Hi everyone.

Cerberus

Hi.

Mahnax

How are you today?

Cerberus

Good, trying to get some CSS thingie to work. You?

Mahnax

01:43

I'm alright.

It's about 30˚C here.

sweats out all liquid

@Cerberus Oh, can I help?!

Cerberus

@Mahnax Bah, that sucks! No A/C?

@Mahnax inkunabeln.ub.uni-koeln.de/vdibProduction/handapparat/nachs_w/…

Mahnax

@Cerberus We have A/C, but the house is still hot.

The A/C at work may or may not exist, and when it does, it's fleeting.

I was just there for eight hours; I spent a good deal of time in the freezer.

Cerberus

I am trying to select the "Nächste Seite" and "Vorge Seite" buttons with CSS.

@Mahnax How come? Weak A/C and little insulation?

@Mahnax Haha great.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Eh, it's mostly the basement (where I am now) that's hot. Little ventilation down here.

@Cerberus I don't see either of those…?

Cerberus

@Mahnax Oh, you may need to click on a link first, like the A?

Mahnax

01:50

@Cerberus And what do you mean by select?

Outline them?

Cerberus

@Mahnax I ehh need to refer to these buttons in a userscript; but first I am trying to get them to "display: none" in a userstyle, to test the code.

div.pfad + element:nth-child(1) { display: none !important; }

This is what I have so far, and it doesn't work.

Mahnax

Hmm.

I have no idea, never used CSS for something like that.

Cerberus

Oh OK.

Perhaps it is not possible.

Mahnax

Sorry, I have no idea.

Would div.pfad:nth-child(1) { display: none !important; } work?

I'm not sure why the word element is there.

Cerberus

@Mahnax Nope, alas.

Mahnax

01:59

@Cerberus Hmm.

Cerberus

That "element" is probably wrong.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Why not?

Cerberus

But I need it to refer to the child of the sibling of pfad.

@Mahnax It doesn't work.

I tried it.

Mahnax

Ah.

Then I really have no idea.

Cerberus

Yeah, perhaps this is just not something CSS can do, because the "element" thingie had no name to hold onto.

Mahnax

02:01

Hmm.

Drop it and use jQuery!

Cerberus

I would!

But how?

Mahnax

shrugs

Vitaly

aren't those images the only images that have their border attribute set to 0?

Mahnax

Consult the wise coders of SO.

Cerberus

@Mahnax I don't even know what add-on or whatever I would have to use...

@Vitaly Ehhh hmm, I hadn't thought of that. Let me see...by the way, I'm not sure whether a border reference will word in the userscript (no idea). There are just some CSS references in it as examples.

Vitaly

02:03

@Cerberus img[border="0"] { display:none !important;}

Cerberus

Trying...

@Vitaly Works!

Now let me test it in the userscript...

Mahnax

Oh, that's smart!

I would expect nothing less from Vitaly, though.

Cerberus

@Vitaly Oh but...actually, I need to be able to point to each button independently.

Vitaly

@Cerberus What?

Cerberus

I am using a script that lets me use a key to go to the next page, and another key to go to the previous page.

The userscript does that.

But it needs to know which buttons lead to the next and the previous page.

Vitaly

02:07

... And?

Cerberus

Alas, it doesn't work.

Vitaly

I'm failing to see any connection between the CSS and the userscript.

Cerberus

var hosts = {
'amazon.': {'prev':'#pagnPrevLink', 'next':'#pagnNextLink'},
'blogspot.com': {'prev':'a.blog-pager-newer-link', 'next':'a.blog-pager-older-link'},
'oneddl.com': {'prev':'a.previouspostslink', 'next':'a.nextpostslink'}
'inkunabeln.ub.uni-koeln.de': {'prev':'img[border="0"]', 'next':'img[border="0"]'}
// 'telecomvergelijker.nl': {'prev':'a.previouspostslink', 'next':'#nextPage'}
};

This is part of the script.

Vitaly

...

Cerberus

The first three are examples.

> // @description Groundwork for inserting link relationship attributes (e.g. prev and next) based on hostname and CSS selectors.

Vitaly

02:10

I have absolutely no idea how well that script supports CSS selectors.

Cerberus

So I would need something that the userscript accepts as a selector for each button.

@Vitaly Nor I, alas.

Perhaps it is impossible.

if(hosts[h].hasOwnProperty(r) && (node = document.querySelector(hosts[h][r]))) {
node.setAttribute('rel', r);
}

This seems to be the relevant part of the (very short) script.

In fact, this script is a helper script to another script.

This is part of the bigger main script:

function next() {

return go('next', /^\s*(\u25BA|>|»)\s*$|^\W*((next|older)( (page|posts|entries))?|vorwärts|weiter|nächste\s+seite|suivant|siguiente|Далее|След)\W*$/i);

}

Vitaly

Stop. Please.

Cerberus

Yeah it seems to be very complicated.

Vitaly

So the querySelector() method seems to support that syntax.

Cerberus

I was just hoping I could make it work if only I could find a way to get the right CSS selector.

Vitaly

02:14

Alas, I am not familiar with JS.

Cerberus

Nor I.

Thanks for trying.

Vitaly

Would 'inkunabeln.ub.uni-koeln.de': {'prev':'a[href=\"capp100.html\"]', 'next':'a[href=\"capp102.html\"]'} work?

Cerberus

I think those are names of individual pages.

They go on into 103, etc.

Vitaly

Oh.

Cerberus

But I'll try it, why not.

Vitaly

02:18

Yeah, OK, you are right. Those are individual pages.

Cerberus

No worky.

Vitaly

The server generates the pages and sends them to you. There's no way to distinguish between the next and the last links in CSS.

Amazon has different CSS IDs for those.

And Blogspot has different CSS classes.

Your site doesn't discriminate.

Cerberus

I was trying to work in a relative way: work my way down through "child" and such from an identifiable element.

Nth-child(1) and nth-child(2) might theoretically work...

But the problem is that their mother is also nameless.

Only their aunt has a name.

> div.pfad + element:nth-child(1) { display: none !important; }

Her name is pfad.

But the problem is that I think I need a name for her sister.

"Element" is bad.

Or is this never going to work in any way?

I know nothing about CSS.

Vitaly

02:34

div.pfad + center > a:nth-child(1) { border:5px solid green !important; }
div.pfad + center > a:nth-child(2) { border:5px solid red !important; }

Well, that works in my user CSS and discriminates between them

but I have no idea about the JavaScript

Because nth-child() is a pseudo-class

Cerberus

Oh wow.

I understand.

Let me try it, very nice.

Center, never thought of that.

Nor "a". What is that anyway?

Mahnax

For links, I believe.

<a href="/">[words]</a>

Cerberus

@Vitaly Alas, no.

@Mahnax Oh, I see.

Mahnax

@Cerberus Ayup.

Cerberus

I guess if it won't accept pseudo-classes, then there is little to be done.

Vitaly

02:42

Well I guess you'll have to ask Robusto if he's still willing to help you with anything JS. :P

Cerberus

He always is.

But I think I'll just give up on this page.

It is hopefully easier on other pages.

Mahnax

Wow, five pages to edit tonight.

gets to work

Cerberus

Oh?

Mahnax

I'm doing some editing work for someone.

He inquired here awhile ago.

Cerberus

Oh, cool.

Interesting text?

Mahnax

02:50

Eh, sort of.

Most of it goes over my head.

Comp Sci stuff.

Vitaly

Hmm. querySelector() does support pseudo-classes, according to that W3C page.

What in Hell is the problem then?

Cerberus

Hmm perhaps it does some other stuff to those variables too.

Don't spend too much time on this: if it isn't possible, then tough luck.

Mahnax

Vitaly

Should be possible.

Mahnax

Word is getting funky.

Cerberus

02:54

Oh, dear.

@Vitaly I think we'd have to analyse the userscript to even find out whether it is possible.

And I know nothing about Javascript.

Vitaly

does this 'inkunabeln.ub.uni-koeln.de': {'prev':'.pfad+center>:nth-child(1)', 'next':'.pfad+center>:nth-child(2)'} really not work?

And by the way, you are missing a comma in the JS

should be

var hosts = {
blah,
blah,
final-blah-no-comma needed
};

You have no comma after the blah before the final blah

There.

Cerberus

Oh!

That could be important.

Vitaly

That is important.

Mahnax

Yeah.

Little tiny mistakes in JS can throw lots off.

Like forgetting to capitalize the I in parseInt().

Cerberus

@Vitaly Woohoo it works!! Thank you so much.

Can't believe I didn't see that comma.

I added that line a while ago, must have messed it up then.

I should know more about Javascript.

Mahnax

03:08

Yeah, it's a handy language to know.

I've been using it to make simple calculators and whatnot.

For fun.

I might try to make a systems of equations calculator that handles up to four variables tonight.

Cerberus

Cool.

Mahnax

Yeah. It currently does two.

But first I should finish this editing!

Cerberus

So much to do!

Vitaly

@Cerberus Wouldn't have worked with your "element" anyway. :P

Cerberus

@Vitaly Yeah, I know.

That didn't work when I tested it in a userstyle.

Mahnax

03:13

@Cerberus Yeah!

Robusto

@Mahnax The biggest trap is isNaN().

Mahnax

@Robusto Oh, that dastardly function.

Robusto

Actually a great function. But my fingers want to spell it isNan().

Cerberus

Why won't Javascript just accept any capitalisation?

Much easier to remember.

Robusto

@Cerberus Because it's not VB.

Cerberus

03:22

And?

Robusto

@Cerberus No. Case-sensitivity is a good thing.

Mahnax

@Robusto Yeah, I like it. It's quite useful.

Cerberus

@Robusto Why?

You never know which letter they are going to capitalise.

Mahnax

iSNan().

That would look better.

Robusto

@Cerberus Because it enforces order and helps you write cleaner code.

Mahnax

03:27

If you could write ISNAN() or PaRSEinT() I would not like it.

Cerberus

@Robusto How?

It looks more like chaos to me.

Random.

Mahnax

Not a Number -> NaN.

Makes sense to me.

Cerberus

How about Not a number => Nan.

Or not a number => nan.

Or not a Number => naN.

Robusto

@Cerberus It looks like chaos to you, with your riotously chaotic system tray? Maybe that's because true order looks like chaos to the truly chaotic mind. I can think of no other explanation.

2

Cerberus

Since number is the content word, the others are function words.

Fine, you're not willing to discuss this seriously. Never mind.

Mahnax

03:31

@Cerberus Try title case.

Cerberus

Yes, that was what you were doing.

There are just so many options.

Actually, no: you didn't capitalise Is.

And you use whole words and single letters together in one abbreviation.

Mahnax

The first word in JS is not typically capitalized.

Robusto

@Cerberus I'm too tired to discuss this seriously. Suffice to say that I prefer case-sensitivity in the naming of functions, objects, properties, interfaces, and all that stuff. I'll give you some serious input tomorrow if you're still interested. Meanwhile, good night.

@Mahnax That depends as well.

Cerberus

All right, good night.

Mahnax

@Robusto Hm, I suppose.

Robusto

03:34

CU.

Mahnax

Bye!

Cerberus

@Mahnax Haha...I just notice how many people complain about miscapitalising a single command and never noticing it before rewriting their entire code.

Autohotkey has a problem with variables that sometimes need to be enclosed in %%, otherwise not.

When you think about it and know by hearth all the possibilities of a certain command, then it makes sense that you need the %% or not with that particular command. But you never remember, so it sucks.

On the other hand, capitals are free, which feels like a huge relief every time I code something.

Mahnax

Gee, this is a lot more than five pages.

works harder

Cerberus

"Hmm should I capitalise this...oh, no, it doesn't matter wahahaha yippee!"

Mahnax

Haha.

Cerberus

03:40

I think that is a genuine advantage.

And by that I don't mean the preposterous Microsoft scheme!

Mahnax

So the "five pages" have turned out to be seven, and counting.

Vitaly

@Cerberus but can you name your variable end of file and not endoffile in AHK?

Mahnax

> desigrning

Huh.

Cerberus

@Vitaly I don't think spaces are allowed, no.

Mahnax

That's a nice r you got there.

Cerberus

03:43

Why?

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax are you editing? and hello!

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Yes, and hi!

Vitaly

@Cerberus see, that's why camelCase was introduced in the 80s (or the 70s?): because the space acts as a delimiter.

Cerberus

@Vitaly But why not use underscores?

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax hooray! I'm not sure you told me (and feel free to tell me it's none of my business) how you got into editing. I would like to know because I am pursuing other careers.

Cerberus

03:45

Or just don't use spaces, like endoffile?

You can always use capitals in your code to make it more readable: that is good practice in Autohotkey. I always do that.

Vitaly

@Cerberus why not just read a short description of Java/JavaScript naming convention? Programmers know perfectly well what is capitalized and what isn't:

Naming convention (programming)

In computer programming, a naming convention is a set of rules for choosing the character sequence to be used for identifiers which denote variables, types and functions etc. in source code and documentation. Reasons for using a naming convention (as opposed to allowing programmers to choose any character sequence) include the following: * to reduce the effort needed to read and understand source code; * to enhance source code appearance (for example, by disallowing overly long names or unclear abbreviations). The choice of naming conventions can be an enormously controversial issue, w...

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Some guy came in here, asked if we knew of any reliable editing services online.

I said something like "No, but I'd do it for you, if you like."

It occurred thusly.

cornbread ninja

@Mahnax oh, nice. :)

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Ačiū!

Vitaly

> The built-in JavaScript libraries use the same naming conventions as Java. Classes use upper camel case (RegExp, TypeError, XMLHttpRequest, DOMObject) and methods use lower camel case (getElementById, getElementsByTagNameNS, createCDATASection). In order to be consistent most JavaScript developers follow these conventions.

cornbread ninja

03:47

@Mahnax gesundheit.

Vitaly

It's part of the language standard basically.

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja Danke.

Vitaly

It's true order.

On that note, I'm not willing to try and teach you something again. So let's drop this topic.

Cerberus

All right, if it is so easy to know this, then why do many people complain about miscapitalising a single letter, not noticing it, and messing up their entire code?

Mahnax

I should leave. It's distracting here.

Cerberus

03:49

And how would that language be harder to work with if capitals were not compulsory?

Mahnax

Over and out.

Cerberus

Bye!

cornbread ninja

yeah. yawns

Cerberus

Hi.

Vitaly

Jul 3 at 0:56, by Cerberus

The problem is just that people are stupid, and politicians are people, alas.

AFK.

Too many people go into programming who shouldn't be there in the first place. It takes a not-very-ordinary mind to be a good programmer. I would even go so far as to suggest that programming requires more clarity of mind than pure mathematics.

Now seriously, AFK. Gotta take a shower before they disable hot water for the next two weeks.

Cerberus

03:59

@Vitaly You are calling several people in this room bad programmers.

Secondly, I think it is a good thing to make a language easier to learn for people. Why not?

cpx

I guess I'm the only people in this room.

Mahnax

12 pages.

12 != 5.

12 = 2(5) + 2

cpx

12 > 5

Vitaly

04:31

@Cerberus So what? It's an objective statement. If you cannot concentrate well enough to notice something, you are a bad programmer. Being above average among bad programmers does not a good programmer make.

Cerberus

All right.

It is a statement at least.

Vitaly

@Cerberus No, thanks. There is enough rubbish software as it is. I'd rather all software be written by competent people who are capable of working in a strict environment. Making it “easier” just lowers the signal-to-noise ratio.

Cerberus

Do you consider yourself competent in CSS?

Vitaly

@Cerberus Also, I'm not necessarily calling them bad programmers. You are missing the fact that it could as well have been a consequence of trying to use a bad programmer's library. The bad programmer wouldn't have followed the standard conventions.

@Cerberus No.

I don't consider myself a good programmer either.

Cerberus

Would you want CSS to be harder, to weed out the non-experts?

Or any language you use.

Vitaly

04:35

Yes.

(If by “harder” you mean “stricter”.)

Cerberus

I mean "more difficult" by harder, strangely enough.

Vitaly

Well, it the presence of strict conventions and fixed rules makes it more difficult for you...

The camelCase convention is one such convention that needs to be strictly followed unless you understand what you are doing (which is probably why it isn't enforced by the interpreter).

Cerberus

I was talking about harder in general for people who are still learning to code in a certain language.

Vitaly

I don't see how camelCase is “harder”. It's stricter.

Cerberus

OK.

Makes it harder to dabble a bit in a new language, if you first need to memorize various principles that other languages don't need.

You already need to memorize so many things.

Vitaly

04:43

And it pays off in the end by enforcing order in programs and eliminating potential pitfalls.

Besides, why exactly would anyone take the arbitrary assumption that certain characters are equivalent to other certain characters? Why on Earth would a equal A?

If that is somebody's natural assumption, I'd rather not see them as programmers.

Case-sensitivity also presents a powerful tool: you can declare something like

type Type = 0;

Where type is the type of the variable named Type, and 0 is what the variable contains.

That example is a bit artificial but situations like that come up quite often in C-like languages when you want to instantiate a class with an object.

Cerberus

You can also do type $type...

@Vitaly People in this room don't assume that case doesn't matter, but still they sometimes forget that an important thingy was capitalised not thus but so.

Like the one Mahnax and Robusto mentioned.

Vitaly

04:59

I don't know about Mahnax but Robusto never said he sometimes forgot something.

2 hours ago, by Robusto

Actually a great function. But my fingers want to spell it isNan().

I don't see any mention of forgetting there.

It's a single example whose only deviation is that it looks unusual among other JS names that typically don't end with a capital. Case-sensitivity is absolutely not worth abolishing because of that one thing.

Cerberus

It looks unusual.

If you search back, you will find examples of our friends who were frustrated by mixing up some capital. If only by a shift-typo, who knows?

Mahnax

05:25

Whew. Just finished.

Vitaly

07:26

@Cerberus Could it be that I view certain conventions as part of a general framework that actually makes it easier to work with a language for the right kind of mind, while you view them as incoherent tidbits to memorize?

Cerberus

07:58

@Vitaly I think you view them as effective in your status game, since you don't seem to offer any important reason why they should be there against my admittedly naïve examples of why they can be problematic.

Vitaly

@Cerberus Nice status attack. Calling the reasons I offered not “important.”

And FYI, every modern IDE has autocomplete. Typos can be almost completely discarded as a reason. I say “almost completely” because it's possible to come up with some convoluted scenario where modern IDEs don't suffice for the sake of status games.

Matt Эллен

08:15

22

Q: Why there is still Case sensitivity in some Programming Language?

I don't see any use of case sensitivity in a Programming Language, apart form obfuscating code. Why implement this in a programming language? Update: It looks like someone you know made a statement on this.

Vitaly

> compiler should take input exactly as presented, not decide that "you wrote this, but I'm going to assume you really meant something else."

Well said.

But I want simple typos to be syntax errors! I don't want simple typos in my code and I want my compiler to help me find them. Case insensitivity makes it harder to find them. Case insensitivity just seems like an excuse for sloppy coding. — nohat Oct 6 '10 at 23:39

Matt Эллен

08:32

spammy user!

Michael Kors Outlet

1

punctuation quotation-marks

Oh, and Good Morning All!

Vitaly

Morning.

I may have missed it but there is at least one other reason that hasn't been mentioned in the answers to that question, namely, it is simply impossible to enumerate all character pairs that differ only in their case, which would make a case-insensitive language a big greasy mess in this Unicode era.

Take Turkish for example, you get i/İ and ı/I, unlike the English i/I.

Matt Эллен

I think that's touched on in the accepted answer, talking about ss in German

Vitaly

Ah. OK then. And Hiragana, where the concept of lower case doesn't even exist.

Matt Эллен

quite. I would very much like to see how programming would work using kanji

Vitaly

But hey, I found a post where Jeff Atwood complains about case-sensitivity, so @Cerberus is in good company!

Matt Эллен

08:47

lol

Toy Story 2 villain:

Jeff Attwood:

interesting...

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