English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KannE

12:21 AM

@Mitch - So, did everybody get like an extra 100 points for nothing? I don't know what happened.

I've been mostly just commenting lately. I don't know where these points are coming from.

KannE

12:37 AM

Oh, I saw the blog. It's for questions. You couldn't pay me 1000 to post another question. It's easier just to sit around and wonder about things indefinitely. I will never be that curious again.

2

Robusto

1:11 AM

OK, this is weird. I suddenly went from ~133k rep to ~137k ... like, overnight. WTF is happening. Did I pull a Rip Van Winkle or is something else going on?

Ohhhh ... I just read back in chat and see now that it's because I doubled my question-asking rep.

Well, there you go.

@Mitch Wait, what? I found no unfounded rumors.

So glad I moved 10 degrees of latitude south. I'd be freezing me bollix off back in New England just now.

Robusto

2:01 AM

Ha, looks like Yoichi doubled his rep in one easy move. Like 34k worth.

Terran Swett

2:23 AM

My reputation on Math.SE went from 6,500 to 6,800. Woo.

Mitch

3:11 AM

Apr 21 '11 at 19:19, by Robusto

We should start getting frequent flyer miles with rep points. I'm just saying.

Terran Swett

Especially on Aviation.SE.

YUSUF HASAN

10:04 AM

Hello,can somebody here help me with a quick doubt about the use of tenses in a sentence?

DJ Marshmello makes you realize that nothing in life is permanent, by changing songs as soon as he has started them

Is there anything wrong with the tenses used in this ^ sentence?

Gigili

Seriously @Cerberus, what is wrong with you? Your behavior is nerve-racking.

Terran Swett

12:08 PM

@YUSUFHASAN Looks good to me.

RegDwigнt

12:22 PM

@YUSUFHASAN well, the tenses are fine. But that doesn't mean that the sentence is any good. It is very poorly worded. I would rewrite.

As a side note, "doubt" does not mean "question". And there is no such thing as "a quick doubt".

YUSUF HASAN

@RegDwigнt Ok noted. Can you tell me why " a quick doubt" doesn't exist? I have heard this term plenty of times. Also,how would you put it?

@TerranSwett Thanks for the help!

@Malavika Hi!

Terran Swett

12:46 PM

@YUSUFHASAN Say "question" instead of "doubt." The word "doubt" is (generally) only used that way by non-native speakers, so when you use it that way, you sound like a non-native speaker.

Gigili

1:49 PM

@Mitch What does it mean to arrange a food truck party?

Get a truck and party in it?

Go where a food truck is located and party there?

Go home and forget about the food truck?

None of the above?

Robusto

2:04 PM

@Mitch Damn, you got a memory on you, boy.

@Gigili I would suppose it means have a party catered by a food truck.

Mitch

@Robusto pfft...I have no memory, I have a search box.

@TerranSwett 'I have a doubt' meaning that I'd like to ask you a question, is very common in Indian English. In AmE or BrE 'doubt' is only a verb.

Gigili

2:19 PM

@Robusto Right, thanks.

Mitch

@Gigili a 'food truck' is a van or truck parked by the side of the road where you can order and get food, like tacos or other food you don't need to sit down to eat.

There's no real thing called a truck party, so a food truck party naturally parses as ((food truck) party), meaning a party involving a food truck, probably a party outside where a food truck can roll up nearby for food.

Which is what Robusto said.

Gigili

@Mitch OK, I've already learned that in school.

Mitch

@Gigili You need to learn this stuff on the streets.

The mean streets of food trucks. and parties on the streets.

Gigili

@Mitch There's an app for that

Mitch

I mean the entire world has unofficial guys riding their bikes with boxes fitted on the back from which you can buy ice cream or burritos or chaat or roasted beets or whatever.

It's only in the US where there is no street food where you have this new thing called a food truck. Well, not new. But it's current large popularity here.

@Gigili I have an app

Matt E. Эллен

2:27 PM

@Mitch I'm pretty sue (in BrE at least) you can have a doubt about something, but that's not the same as having a question about something. Like I have doubts about the efficacy of the paleo diet.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен But not questions about it?

Matt E. Эллен

I have questions, so many questions, like "why did you call it paleo"?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Oh. I expected that I overgeneralized.

Isn't there an ELU answer that explains what I'm saying?

Matt E. Эллен

bound to be

Mitch

So you can't have a single doubt in AmE/BrE?

Matt E. Эллен

2:30 PM

i'm not sure

Mitch

I have doubts that eating chocolate with tea is appropriate, but I don't have just a single doubt.

I mean, they 'go' together. But I am unsure about the rules.

Gigili

@Mitch Speaking of which, I really want a popsicle

Matt E. Эллен

yeah, looking at google books, it seems "doubt" doesn't really appear any more in terms of having (one hit from 1953 to 2000)

Mitch

Hm... you probably shouldn't go to a food truck for that. Go to an ice cream stand.

Gigili

There is no doubt that eating chocolate with everything is appropriate.

Matt E. Эллен

2:32 PM

@Gigili nice one :D

Mitch

136

Q: Can "doubt" sometimes mean "question"?

I often see questions on Stack Exchange sites which I presume are written by non-native English speakers who use the word "doubt" in place of the word "question". Is this a case of misunderstanding the correct meaning or are people being taught that this is correct usage?

@Gigili Onions

It doesn't go great with onions

Now I have doubts about your sense of taste.

Like whether you have any.

And now I am questioning all uses of question and doubt in every language.

@KevinVermeer: "tengo una pregunta" is perfectly valid too. But I find "tengo una duda" more idiomatic; this may of course change depending on country and region. — CesarGon Oct 5 '11 at 13:55

Matt E. Эллен

I am doubt and doubt is me

Mitch

You are literally vague

@YUSUFHASAN So the end result is 'I have a doubt' is perfectly fine in Indian/South Asian English (for saying that you'd like to ask a question), but to AmE/BrE it sounds weird (no one says that, you say 'I have a question' instead), and 'I have a doubt' is interpreted more like you mistrust something, like 'I have a doubt whether that rope bridge will hold my weight' with no expectation that you'll ask a question about the bridge's construction.

Gigili

@Mitch but how much do you weigh?

Mitch

3:15 PM

@Gigili I feel like I've backed myself into a corner.

Either weigh, a fall from that height and the crocodiles and sharp rocks and the sharpshooters on either side... and I bet that water isn't very clean.

Robusto

3:36 PM

@Mitch I certainly have my doubts about that statement.

> "“Yet some doubt remained, some note of interrogation." —Virginia Woolf

> "In [7] some doubt remained about the adequacy of the self-similar solutions to describe the numerically observed blow-up for two reasons."

The latter from Differential and Integral Equations

Don't forget the Hitchcock Film:

Shadow of a Doubt

Shadow of a Doubt is a 1943 American psychological thriller film noir directed by Alfred Hitchcock, and starring Teresa Wright and Joseph Cotten. Written by Thornton Wilder, Sally Benson, and Alma Reville, the film was nominated for an Academy Award for Best Story for Gordon McDonell. In 1991, the film was selected for preservation in the United States National Film Registry by the Library of Congress, being deemed "culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant". The film was also Alfred Hitchcock's personal favorite of all of his films. == Plot == Charles Oakley lives alone in a rooming...

And let's not forget that defendants in the American judicial system must be found guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt."

Terran Swett

@Mitch My intuition as a 27yonsame is that you can have doubts, and you can have doubt, but I don't think you can have a doubt.

(Is there an accepted abbreviation for "27-year-old native speaker of American English"? "Think" emoji.)

Doubt is, of course, uncertainty or skepticism. And I guess it's sometimes used as a countable plural.

Maybe as a countable singular, too.

Oh, say.

Is the countable/uncountable distinction pretty common among Indo-European languages, or is it a peculiarity of English, or is it something in between?

It seems like Europeans sometimes have trouble with it, which makes me wonder if their languages don't have that distinction.

Mitch

@Robusto @MattE.Эллен also pointed out my error. I'll let it stand as a signpost for others 'Do not be wrong on the internet'.

@TerranSwett @Robusto just gave a bunch of examples of singular 'doubt' in AmE.

Terran Swett

Though, pretty often, the trouble they have is simply forgetting (or not knowing in the first place) that a noun is uncountable, and thus saying something like "informations" (instead of "information" or "facts") or "softwares" (instead of "software" or "programs").

@Mitch Guess I wasn't paying attention.

Mitch

3:53 PM

@TerranSwett I think it should logically be a thing among languages with an indefinite article, not necessarily IE. But I don't know any non-IE languages that are arthrous (there surely are some but I just am not familiar with them).

I think that the difficulty is that there is no guarantee that particular terms will share the same mass/countable state across languages.

Terran Swett

Right. And occasionally there are words that have essentially the same meaning, except one is countable and the other is uncountable.

"Software" and "computer program" seem to mean the same thing.

Although the thing about "computer program" is that it is a sort of unit of measurement: it refers not only to a type of thing (software), but to a particular amount of that thing (one program).

Robusto

@Mitch On the Internet, those chickens always come home to roost.

Mitch

eg AmE do the dishes vs Sp lavar la vajilla

maybe?

@TerranSwett OMG It's so grating to hear 'I wrote a software' or 'I wrote a code'

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto they should learn some variety. try roosting in a motel, or maybe on a cruise.

Mitch

@Robusto But I will cling to the fact that 'a doubt' in AmE/BrE is not a question. I have no doubts about that.

Terran Swett

4:02 PM

It is undoubtably so.

Mitch

I question your assertion.

Terran Swett

Or perhaps merely undoubtedly so.

Matt E. Эллен

indubitably

Mitch

It's like 'cheers' between AmE and BrE. One is clink glasses in a toast. The other seems to mean 'thanks'? WTH England.

Really false friends.

Matt E. Эллен

it means both in the UK

Robusto

4:04 PM

@MattE.Эллен I'm too chicken to go on a cruise. What if the toilets backed up!

Mitch

Like one who says they'll drive you to the airport, but at the last minute it's clear they were just saying 'Thanks'.

@MattE.Эллен Well... sputters ...

Matt E. Эллен

cheers

Mitch

I'm all uncomfortable now because I don't have a drink and you do.

Robusto

@Mitch Yes, and I will back you on that. And all you had to do was be more circumspect and scrupulous.

Mitch

@Robusto I don't have time for that.

Robusto

4:06 PM

@MattE.Эллен Everything means both in the UK. Take "brexit" for example. It means both "leave" and "don't leave" the EU.

@Mitch Or perhaps you don't have a time for that.

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto the cruise loo spews twos D-:

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен Eeeuwwww ... that is easily twice as bad.

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto the worst autoantonym

Robusto

In non-Indian English we refer to "the above statement" (or passage, or sentence, etc.) all the time, so why does it sound so odd when Indian speakers refer to "the below" whatever?

@MattE.Эллен It is a superposition of states. Just like England and the UK.

Mitch

> @DadsPuns: It's inappropriate to make a 'dad joke' if you're not a dad.

It’s a faux pa.

Robusto

4:22 PM

@Mitch I can't decide whether you're friend or faux.

Luyw

5:29 PM

hello

guys, do we say "x's sacking at the hands of"or "on the hands of"?

or just by?

also, is it correct to write "then-minister of x"?

SmokeDetector

7:22 PM

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Pattern-matching website in answer, potentially bad ns for domain in answer (80): What does duck-quacking mean? by extrapalater on english.SE

CowperKettle

8:37 PM

Word of the day: buff coat (a 17th century coat worn by cavalry)

Usage example: "I enjoy swimming in the buff coat".

RegDwigнt

9:40 PM

@MattE.Эллен note how you switched to the plural there. On the dime. Having doubts about X is perfectly common and natural. Having one doubt about X is not. And even when you do have a doubt, it is never the same as having a question.

@Robusto "a shadow of a doubt" is a fixed phrase. Don't confuse the pineapples. They're confused enough as is.

@Luyw generally I would pick "at the hands" over "on the hands". But in your particular context I would not use either. Sacking does not collocate with at the hands. (Probably because the latter implies holding tight, while the former specifically means letting go.)

Sacking by is definitely the wiser choice there.

tchrist

9:56 PM

@RegDwigнt Right thou art.

@RegDwigнt I was sacked by the Hand of God.

Maybe smacked.

RegDwigнt

> [name] added discussion "Do I have some sort of special ability" 23 minutes ago

> So if you play a song that's in C major (or any key) then play B (or the leading note of any key) then I'll know the chord on that note will be diminished. Same for if you play D, (or the supertonic of any key) I'll know the chord on that note will be minor

@Robusto for your amusement.

Apparently one person on MuseScore has acquired the special ability of understanding what the major scale is.

Bring out the champagne. I no longer am alone.

tchrist

the diatoms are winning

RegDwigнt

I would be spinning in my grave if I were in my grave right now.

Also, Bach is spinning in his grave right now. Because the chord on B is major. It's the chord on H that is diminished.

But I digress.

Also, everyone take a minute to take note of how @tchrist has complied with my request to not address me with a plural you.

I expect the same level of basic courtesy from everyone in here. SE rules.

Vectoring Words (Word Embeddings) - Computerphile

►

RegDwigнt

10:32 PM

The mind-blowing bit starts at 12:50. So if you don't understand a word of what he's saying, just skip straight to that time stamp.

Cerberus

10:53 PM

@Gigili Huh? What is this about?

Cerberus

11:04 PM

@RegDwigнt I agree on all counts. It is a horrible mistake. It shows how harmful PC stuff can be.

@Robusto The reason for that fund is in order for her to sue SE for slander or defamation.

I doubt whether she would stand a chance legally.

@RegDwigнt 'Leaked' is not exactly the right term. Chipps posted something like "she was fired because what she did was counter to our rules about being an inclusive site", or something, which suggests Monica was being discriminatory (which she absolutely was not; we have read what she said, and it was 100% normal and common sense). Chipps posted this as an answer to a substantial number of questions all around the network regarding Monica's dismissal.

3

In addition, Chipps gave an interview in The Register, in which she repeated these accusations.

On Twitter (I know...) she repeated a post by someone else saying that now all the racists were leaving the network, good riddance, or something—about all who protested against the insinuations brought forward against Monica, and against the new speech-policing.

If I remember correctly.

So she pointed the blame on herself.

tchrist

11:25 PM

@Cerberus I believe it was more general than racists, more like bigots. But don't quote me.

Once the anti-Microsoft jihadists are gone, we'll be safe again.

Or was that the anti-tab crusaders? Something about white space anyway.

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, OK.

@tchrist Wha—?

tchrist

@Cerberus Well, if you say something bad about Microsoft, you're being unclusive, aren't you?

Can't have those types.

Cerberus

Microsoft?

I don't follow the latest trends.

tchrist

The Ancient Enemy.

Cerberus

I thought we could hate Microsoft.

tchrist

11:30 PM

I'm trying not to say anything deistic.

Lest Godwin.

Cerberus

gets dictionary of pop culture

frantically leafs through pages

Nah, w'evs.

What's up, dude.

tchrist

enervation

Diamonds capucine and azure.

blinkenleitz

Vanity of vanities. Nothing new under the sun.

Cerberus

11:45 PM

Oh, okay...

tchrist

> A bull has been named Britain's biggest after tipping the scales at almost two tonnes, the same as an adult hippopotamus. Standing at 7ft the Charolais bull, named Barnsford Ferny, weighs double that of other bulls and there is enough meat on him to make 45,000 burgers. He lives alongside 20 other bulls, but despite living off the same diet, Barnsford dwarves them.

Really?

I guess it's better than wolving them, but it's still an odd word.

telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/11313665/…

Terran Swett

You should see my uncle Tom as he wolves down cake.

English is considered to have only four irregular third-person singular present verbs: is, has, does, and says. So "dwarves" would be the fifth.

Cerberus

@tchrist Hmm I suppose I would have expected dwarfs. But I have nothing against the voiced plural.

tchrist

@TerranSwett Oh no, there's lots like that surely. Wiving and all.

Cerberus

@TerranSwett What makes those particular forms irregular?

Is it about pronunciation exclusively?

Terran Swett

11:54 PM

@Cerberus Well, the regular forms for the first two would be "bes" and "haves."

Cerberus

And what rules count for a form to still be 'regular'?

Terran Swett

The other two are irregular only in pronunciation.

There's a good question. I guess there's a particular rule for forming that form.

And it works in all cases except those four.

@tchrist Surely that's the active participle of "to wive"?

tchrist

@TerranSwett parently

calving

calves is not from calf

but from calve

Terran Swett

Right.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…