English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

00:07

I wanted to stop at 1000 downvotes but did not. Well, now I'll stop at 1050 downvotes!

Journeyman Geek

00:36

lol

not over 9000?

user19161

It's quiet during the weekends. Not many voters around.

user19161

@KitFox Happens to all of us.

Journeyman Geek

I almost feel bad

is bounty hunting

Jez

Woooo

my Slashdot post on the HTTPS snooping got selected. :-D

ask.slashdot.org/story/12/06/16/223208/…

over 700 comments, very interesting discussion. the issue hadn't really been addressed much before

Journeyman Geek

yay!

Oooh

I remember this one

Anyone who does banking on a work system is insufficiently paranoid

Jez

00:49

it's about 50/50 in terms of people who agree with me that it's unreasonable, and those who say "keep private and personal stuff separate"

Journeyman Geek

actually I wouldn't do anything but work on a system i didn't control >_>

Its unreasonable, to an extent, but depends on your wider work environment

Jez

but it's not just online banking (though i would argue that stuff is part of what humans should be allowed to do on work networks... expecting 100% work all the time is asking us to be robots)

it's also about securely logging in with passwords.

if HTTPS is snooped, you can't do that either.

Journeyman Geek

@Jez: is it on your AUP?

Jez

it's in the policy, yes, which is why i just quit the company.

Journeyman Geek

Oh, i mean, i don't trust anyone but myself with my security ;p

I assume everyone is a blithering idiot

Jez

00:51

yes. and in allowing this HTTPS proxying, you're being asked to trust the IT dept. not to store your personal info

Journeyman Geek

(myself included. I'm just a blithering idiot who knows enough to be a danger to myself, or alternately useful)

Jez

i don't trust them (they don't trust me, so why should i?)

Journeyman Geek

... trust?

Jez

yes

they may well say "we don't store passwords"

Journeyman Geek

I explicitly don't trust anyone ;p

Jez

00:52

but i'm going to err on the side of caution, and not believe them

i just can't get over what lengths people go to to make HTTPS so ultra-secure

analyzing the encryption algorithms for potential flaws

Journeyman Geek

and then, some idiot breaks the whole thing ;p

Jez

making the browser display a big notice if there's a problem with the cert

and then, here, you're just saying "let's sweep all that aside and explicitly allow a MITM attack"

so casually jettisoning all that security

Journeyman Geek

in short, you're dealing with idiots who trusted a salesperson's spiel ;p

Jez

i'm off to bed anyway. but, for once, yay Slashdot (first submission i've had published!)

Journeyman Geek

My best friend during the first degree i dropped out of sells computer hardware. I'm a little horrified at his view of life and tech ;p

Mitch

01:23

@Jez I'm sure you've explained this elsewhere, but how can you 'snoop' HTTPS?

@JourneymanGeek what is his 'view of life and tech' that so disturbs you? Paranoid or trusting?

Journeyman Geek

@Mitch: he knows nothing about it ;p

and well, While i appreciate a certain amount of materialism, money is a means to an end ;p

I love my chosen field. While i'm still stuck in school at my age, I have genuine passion for my craft

My friend is an EE grad sales exec who probably dosen't know very much outside.. politicing

user19161

01:43

50 more to 20k...

user19161

01:54

@Gigili Were you trying to copy what I said?

Journeyman Geek

@Mitch: add a server with its own certs, trusted explicitly by the browsers that are installed, proxy everything through that

If you wanted to play with something like that mitmproxy.org

Mahnax

02:35

Hello, vegetables.

user19161

@Mahnax Boo!

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Hello, Mr. Loy.

I have my final mark for Physics now.

user19161

@Mahnax I am going to sleep soon. I think I should reach 20k in a few more hours!

Mahnax

shh

user19161

@Mahnax Heh.

Mahnax

02:41

@JasperLoy hands wad of bills to @Jasper

Now go, before they see us.

user19161

@Mahnax You have not been answering many questions lately.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Yeah, you're right…

I'll blame being too busy.

Really, I haven't seen any I that want to answer very much.

user19161

@Mahnax But anyway, I just checked and I have distributed all the presents.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Yeah, hehe.

user19161

@Mahnax The penthouse room is still alive. It has lots of beautiful pics now.

Mahnax

02:45

@JasperLoy Cool!

I'm going to go wash my hands.

I haven't done that yet, and I just got home from work.

returns

user19161

@Mahnax Oh, the Apple stores here are called Epicentre. At least a couple of them I saw were called that.

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Huh, that's odd…

user19161

@Mahnax Well, even the KFC is different. No spicy there!

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Yeah. Some lady asked us if we had grilled chicken today.

Hehe, grilled is for pansies.

We straight-up deep-fry here, nothing else.

user19161

@Mahnax I'm not sure if KFC has grilled anywhere in the world.

Mahnax

02:54

@JasperLoy Nah, they don't.

user19161

0

Q: What is the meaning of "to be to blame"?

I have read this sentence but I cannot understand it. If this sentence can be represented other way then give other alternative sentence also. And if it is possible then give other example of "to be to" type of sentence. A lack of time to exercise increased consumption of take away meals an...

meaning

user19161

NR

Mahnax

I'm pretty sure, at least.

Oh, the USA has grilled KFC.

Never mind.

user19161

Once many years ago, they sold Creole Chicken here for a couple of weeks. It was very good.

Mahnax

Already voted on that one.

@JasperLoy Oh, that does sound good.

user19161

02:57

@Mahnax Have you eaten something called that before?

Mahnax

@JasperLoy I don't think so.

Journeyman Geek

@JasperLoy: >_>

they call apple stores epicenter here too

Mahnax

Uh, @JourneymanGeek…

Journeyman Geek

though IIRC they're run by one of those companies that runs 'brand' stores by other people

Mahnax

You and Jasper live in the same place.

user19161

03:00

@JourneymanGeek That's because I am from the same country as you!

Mahnax

Jinx!

Journeyman Geek

That would explain it, yes ;p

Though, i'm a SLS guy more than an apple guy

Mahnax

I like Apple.

user19161

I like bananas.

Mahnax

he types into his MacBook Pro

Journeyman Geek

03:01

I like to build my own desktops

as far as laptop goes, i LOVE my thinkpad x220 ;p

Mahnax

I want to build a computer too.

I would put some form of Linux on it, I think.

Journeyman Geek

currently saving for a core i7 desktop

user19161

@Mahnax Yes, use Debian, the best OS in the world.

Journeyman Geek

Badly though. I think i spent most of my allowance this month ;p

Mahnax

@JasperLoy Eh, I don't know.

Journeyman Geek

03:02

actually, i think he's right ;'p

Mahnax

Really?

Journeyman Geek

was rather impressed at his last debian install

user19161

@JourneymanGeek Have you used CentOS before?

Journeyman Geek

not yet, no

Mahnax

I love Mac OS, but I've not tried any Linux-based OSes.

Journeyman Geek

03:03

I was mandriva -> Suse -> Ubuntu/Debian

user19161

@Mahnax I am not particularly impressed by Macs. I never used one but I usually look at them in shops.

Journeyman Geek

though i currently mostly run windows cause of school

Mahnax

@JasperLoy What don't you like about them?

user19161

@JourneymanGeek A pity Mandriva declined, but now there is Mageia.

Mahnax

I have to admit that I hate Apple as a company.

But their products are nice.

Journeyman Geek

03:04

@JasperLoy: LOVE their industrial design, and the fact that they 'encourage' other vendors to improve their products

user19161

@Mahnax I just meant that there is nothing that made me go Wow! If I had to pay I would get Windows. If free, I go for Debian.

Journeyman Geek

hopes the retina screens will end the stagnation in screen resolutions and pixel density >_>

@JasperLoy; my school insists we run VMs in vmware player on windows so...

Mahnax

user19161

But I really think the six month cycle of some distros is crazy.

Mahnax

Whereas the new Mac OS will be $19.99.

user19161

03:05

Two years is good.

Journeyman Geek

lol

when I install ubuntu, its usually the LTS

amusingly i went with ubuntu cause at that point, it had been 3-4 years between debian releases

Annual makes sense to me, though i wish they'd follow browser release cycles

user19161

@mahnax Would you like to be mod on any site?

user19161

@JourneymanGeek I think they are trying to stick to 2 year freeze now.

user19161

Oh I wonder if Kris and Lewis Carroll are the same, since Kris was suspended.

Journeyman Geek

2 years seems sensible i suppose

ponders rolling distros

user19161

03:13

@JourneymanGeek Too unstable.

Journeyman Geek

Well, the main reason i didn't switch to gentoo is the install was a pain

might run arch on my raspberry pi

Mahnax

@JasperLoy I would love to.

Especially EL&U.

I don't think it'll happen, but one can dream.

Journeyman Geek

03:32

@Mahnax: Well, if you're active enough, it can happen >_>

Mahnax

@JourneymanGeek I'm certainly still active on the site, I just spend most of my time voting and editing.

Journeyman Geek

People would notice the latter

and you should make sure people know this during elections

Wants to stand for SU elections, eventually, but there would have to be one and I want my marshal badge first ;p

Matt Эллен

07:27

Elu world!

Gigili

07:40

Guten morning.

@JasperLoy Why would I?

David Wallace

Hi all.

Matt Эллен

Hello

David Wallace

Sorry, I was engrossed, trying to read something somewhere.

Matt Эллен

here's a limerick I wrote

David Wallace

Are you well, Matt?

Matt Эллен

07:51

I'm fine thanks. How are you, David?

David Wallace

Uhuh, your limerick is interesting. And I'm very well, thanks.

Matt Эллен

Good, good.

David Wallace

brb

Sorry about that. What possessed you to write it?

Matt Эллен

Oh, I just wanted to write a limerick with alliteration on each line

trying to make something that made sense was difficult

David Wallace

Yeah. Sounds like you have too much spare time.

Matt Эллен

08:00

It was the weekend! :Þ

David Wallace

What's that saying about only an idiot can't write a sonnet, and only a lunatic can write more than one?

speedyGonzales

hi folks

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace Don't know that one :D

Hullo @speedyGonzales

speedyGonzales

hullo ?

Matt Эллен

Hullo!

David Wallace

08:02

@MattЭллен I could google it I suppose.

speedyGonzales

i see british verson of hello

Matt Эллен

Quite

speedyGonzales

what is wrong with writing sonnets though

Matt Эллен

I think David's gone to find out

speedyGonzales

Which reminds me is there a word for 4 verses in English

Matt Эллен

08:05

Not that I know. Is there a word for one, two and three?

user19161

My on the line answer turns out to be factually wrong though it is not a linguistic issue so I have deleted my answer.

speedyGonzales

And what kind of rhymes are there in english

user19161

How am I to know what Obama does with Hu when I have lost touch with worldly affairs?

Matt Эллен

@speedyGonzales I don't understand the question. Rhyme

speedyGonzales

well in Bulgarian there is man rhyme, woman rhyme and other types

Matt Эллен

08:08

oh! How interesting. Well I guess there are a bazillion types of poetry in English, and I don't know of any that aren't allowed to rhyme.

but then I'm not a poet

I just write limericks

speedyGonzales

Quatrain is 4 line verse

Matt Эллен

Excellent.

speedyGonzales

are you counting syllables when writing verses

Matt Эллен

When I write a limerick, I try to make sure that it fits the metre of a limerick. That involves counting syllables

although not necessarily of the words themselves, more of the particular line itself

speedyGonzales

Usually when I write something it is in quatrains 10 or 12 syllables a line with abab rhyme and I am trying some sort of anaphora

Gigili

08:14

A kind of nonsense poem? What the heck is that?

David Wallace

The saying is "he is a fool that cannot make one sonnet and he is mad which makes two". But it's unclear whether it was a guy called Donne who said it first, or whether it's an old Spanish proverb.

speedyGonzales

I hope Spain wont take The Euro Cup this year

David Wallace

I don't give a monkey's nut for soccer. I am notably unexcited.

user19161

20 more points to 20k trusted user!

speedyGonzales

I am for Germany

David Wallace

08:16

uber alles.

user19161

I am for speedy gonzales.

Matt Эллен

Poems that are made up of nonsense
Are particularly fun to write hence
The proclivity
Of people like me
To write them in volumes quite immense

David Wallace

I hope you didn't spend too much time on that one.

Matt Эллен

two minutes, apparently

David Wallace

The limerick's an art form complex
Its contents run chiefly to sex.
It burgeons with virgins
and masculine urgin's
and swarms with erotic effects.

(not by me).

Matt Эллен

08:18

heh

user19161

@DavidWallace No flirting in chat.

David Wallace

With whom did I flirt?

Matt Эллен

With you wife? With Danger?! With the idea of becoming a rock star and spending all your money on hookers and blow?

David Wallace

I don't need to become a rock star to spend all my money on prostitutes and narcotics.

Gigili

Well, I see the word sex. You must be flirting with someone there which is not clear to us.

Matt Эллен

08:22

@DavidWallace true

user19161

@Gigili I see the word in your sentence as well.

Gigili

@JasperLoy Yours has one too (three).

David Wallace

This is like that scene from Life of Brian.

user19161

@Gigili This line is deep.

user19161

8

Q: A common phrase that describes something that looks good but is actually not good

I am looking for common phrases that describe something that appears good but are actually bad. Edit Because people say "bad" is vague I will try to sum up the phrase meaning a little better Something that looks like it will be helpful or advantageous but after use it is hindering. A tool tha...

phrases

user19161

08:27

I think this will hit the charts soon.

Matt Эллен

fools gold?

David Wallace

Depending on what is meant by "good", this could be "a wolf in sheep's clothing".

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy I've up voted your answer and my answer :D

user19161

@MattЭллен He edited his question but I guess my answer is still OK.

speedyGonzales

it is strange that you have used prostitutes I have always seen it hooker

maybe I am spending too much time with Americans

user19161

08:28

@speedyGonzales I have used neither; I am still a virgin.

David Wallace

It is strange that I have used prostitutes? Nobody has EVER said that to me before.

speedyGonzales

as a word David as a word

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace I thought I saw that as an answer, but now I can't find it to give it +1

user19161

@MattЭллен It is buried sonewhere.

Matt Эллен

oh! it's in the first answer

found it!

Gigili

08:31

@JasperLoy somewhere

Unless you meant sonstwo.

David Wallace

Oh, I didn't bother reading it.

user19161

I now have exactly 20k, but better play safe and get a few more points.

Gigili

@JasperLoy You're supposed to quit now.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy congrats

now the system trusts

Gigili

Who's a 10k user here?

Matt Эллен

08:33

me am

user19161

If we get X points and associated privileges do they go away if rep drops?

Gigili

@MattЭллен I'm going to flag a message and you have to remove it. Deal?

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy I can't remember

user19161

@Gigili No, it will invite mods.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili I can't remove it, the best I can do is agree

Gigili

08:34

@JasperLoy Not here, MSE chat room.

@MattЭллен OK, agree then.

user19161

@Gigili Same.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili ok, but just this once

Gigili

I cannot flag an offensive remark because it invites mod? What kind of reasoning is that?

user19161

@Gigili That will happen very soon...

David Wallace

Quite an achievement, Jasper, well done.

Gigili

08:36

Ready?

2

user19161

@Gigili It is called a QED.

Gigili

3

1

BOOM.

Matt Эллен

I didn't get chosen to deal with it, or I haven't yet

user19161

So is Lewis Carroll Kris?

Gigili

I didn't flag it.

Matt Эллен

08:37

oh

speedyGonzales

Matt I have posted an answer, it is your opportunity to -1 me again :D

user19161

It seems likely as LC was deleted and Kris was suspended.

Matt Эллен

I look forward to it, @speedyGonzales :D

speedyGonzales

By the way why Lewis Carol But not Louise Carol

Lewis and Louise are written the same way in Bulgarian

is it a gender difference in names ?

Matt Эллен

They're quite different in English. Lewis Carroll was a man. Louise Carol I've never heard of, but I would expect to be a woman.

Gigili

08:40

0

A: Moderation In Moderation

The difference can be understood by following example. 1 Under: The boy was sitting under the tree. means boy is sitting just under the tree like he was sitting on the ground for the shadow of tree. 2 in: The boy was sitting in the tree. now sense goes that boy was sitting in mid part of tree l...

speechless

Umm, I think I'll post a meta thread instead of flagging.

speedyGonzales

@Gigili haven't you sit In a tree, poor you

Matt Эллен

@speedyGonzales Lewis and Louise don't sound the same in English

speedyGonzales

what is the difference ?

Matt Эллен

give me a mo to look up the IPA

David Wallace

Whether the S is voiced, and which syllable the stress is on.

Lewis is trochaic, with an unvoiced S. Louise is iambic, with a voiced S.

Gigili

08:43

gives Matt a mo

David Wallace

Also, for me, the i is a bit different, but that might be my accent.

Matt Эллен

@speedyGonzales Lewis = /ˈluɪs/ Louise = /luˈiz/

David Wallace

Aha! Not just my accent then.

Matt Эллен

@Gigili thanks!

David Wallace

@MattЭллен Now shave it off!

Matt Эллен

08:45

Heh. Back in my uni days I had a double mo, I would have shaved those off :D

David Wallace

Ah, but you can't blame Gigili for that!

speedyGonzales

lets not talk about shaving

Matt Эллен

@DavidWallace true, true.

David Wallace

I just read the answer on that "in the tree" question. WTF??

Matt Эллен

closed twice. she's going for a hattrick

speedyGonzales

08:50

@DavidWallace haven't you sit in a tree hole when you were a kid. What a wasted youth .

Matt Эллен

sat*

David Wallace

I have sat in trees. But that answer makes no sense!

@Speedy - does Bulgarian have iambs? I'm aware that other southern Slavic languages don't.

(An iamb is a two-syllable word in which the second syllable is stressed)

speedyGonzales

Do you know the history of Slavic languages ?

If you do you shouldn't have asked me .

David Wallace

I know a little of it.

Why shouldn't I have asked you?

speedyGonzales

In something like 830 Byzantine emperor has given orders to be made Slavic alphabet for some Slavic kingdom close to Slovakia nowadays

David Wallace

08:57

Yeah. Continue.

speedyGonzales

When its king, although the title is something like graph was dead the People that teach people to write in Slavic were set in exile and they were chased.

They find place to translate books and teach more people of the new alphabet in Bulgaria, because we became Christians at that time and our kind was nervous about reading the church books in Greek.

David Wallace

So, why shouldn't I have asked you about how you stress syllables?

speedyGonzales

The thread to be taken over by cultural impact, you see.

threat *

David Wallace

Aha, I see.

speedyGonzales

Because Bulgarian is the Oldest written Slavic language apparently

David Wallace

09:02

The only reason that I asked is that it could have explained your uncertainty over Lewis and Louise.

speedyGonzales

there is a rhyme called lambs , but i have never heard for iambs so I am almost sure we haven't got.

David Wallace

@speedyGonzales I guess so. You clearly know more about it than I do.

speedyGonzales

btw Bulgarian pronunciation is very harsh , it sounds like German.

British English is like talking with stuffy nose if you ask me.

Matt Эллен

@speedyGonzales no one asked you

speedyGonzales

I like Scottish accent I can listen for hours.

Matt Эллен

09:10

Yeah, me too. Scottish and Southern Irish

Well, some Scottish accents are better than others

speedyGonzales

Well I like Celtic, Irish folk songs too

David Wallace

@speedyGonzales Can I rephrase the question? In Serbian, whenever a word has two syllables, the stress is on the first one. There are no Serbian two-syllable words where the stress is on the second syllable. Since Bulgarian is related to Serbian, I was wondering whether it has the same characteristic.

Hugo

@MattЭллен There's no place called Southern Ireland, so "southern Irish" is better

Matt Эллен

@Hugo As opposed to Northern Ireland, I was just being specific

Hugo

@MattЭллен I understand, but just being pedantic about caps

speedyGonzales

09:14

I don't know @DavidWallace- I am not stress expert. Besides there a lot of dialects too.

David Wallace

OK, never mind, just curious.

Matt Эллен

@Hugo is there an adjective for Eire? That would be easier.

speedyGonzales

I have found interesting article about the stress in Bulgarian words , but it is in Bulgarian.

David Wallace

That's OK, I may be able to understand it.

Hugo

@MattЭллен I think just Irish, but that can include Ulster

Matt Эллен

09:17

Exactly, and southern Irish could just mean southern Eire. So Southern Irish makes sense.

David Wallace

That's how I interpreted it.

speedyGonzales

liternet.bg/publish26/mirena-paceva/akcentnata.htm

Hugo

@MattЭллен Yeah, but the capital S suggests "South Ireland" is a country, and I'm quite sure that's not a good thing to do

Matt Эллен

@Hugo It is, it's just called something else.

speedyGonzales

can you see this link, I am not sure you if the server is visible from your country

Hugo

09:18

@MattЭллен "southern Irish" is specific

Matt Эллен

@Hugo I just pointed out that it's not.

David Wallace

@speedyGonzales Thanks, I looked at it. You DO have iambs, according to this article.

I didn't understand the entire thing, but I understood enough.

speedyGonzales

In general it is written that almost 70% of Bulgarian words have stress on the second syllable and after that on the first or third one.

Matt Эллен

hmm

speedyGonzales

well I have never heard that term iamb.

David Wallace

09:20

It's interesting; I wonder at which point in their shared history, Serbian and Bulgarian became so different. I must do some research into Old Slavonic (also known as Old Bulgarian).

I wonder whether one or the other had a "great stress shift", similar to the "great vowel shift" of English. That would be an excellent question for Linguistics.SE, I think.

speedyGonzales

hmmmm Well Serbian is different at some part. Right now the company I am working for are developing System about Serbian Parliament and all my menu is in Serbian

They use both Latin and Slavic alphabet, I have developed small subsystem for publishing news.

David Wallace

Oh, I know that they are very different languages. But there are also some similarities.

Hugo

@MattЭллен I mean: "Southern Irish" suggests "South Ireland" is the name of a country. It's not. It's "Ireland" (or "Eire"), which is the southern bit of the geographical island called Ireland.

Moshe

Hey, English folks, wanna comb this blog post for linguistic errors?

WWDC 2012

Matt Эллен

@Hugo Ireland is also use to refer to the whole island.

Hugo

09:25

@MattЭллен Yes: "... which is the southern bit of the geographical island called Ireland."

Matt Эллен

@Hugo so therefore southern Irish is not specific enough for what I was trying to get across.

speedyGonzales

Well I can read Serbian and understand what it is about. I can talk in Bulgarian and they will understand me.

Matt Эллен

I only wanted to refer to the Southern Irish

Since I don't know the adjective for Eire, I wanted to make it clear I meant the whole country, not the south of the country

Hugo

@MattЭллен to make it clear it's the whole of Eire, and not just the south of Eire/the island?

Matt Эллен

@Hugo yes

looking in Google books, it seems to be a matter of style whether one writes Southern or southern.

one more vote to be rid of this dupe!

-1

Q: Moderation In Moderation

1 The forum comments are under moderation. 2 The forum comments are in moderation. How are "under" and "in" different?

grammar phrases prepositions

Hugo

09:40

@MattЭллен Wow, same question three times! Voted.

Pratik

10:04

How to separate "to be" type sentence into two separate sentence ?

For example,it seems to be a matter of style whether one writes Southern or southern.

anyone here?

Hugo

@Pratik "It seems to be a matter of style. One could write Southern or southern."

Pratik

combine this sentence

Hugo

@Pratik "It seems to be a matter of style whether one writes Southern or southern."

Pratik

He had not even a ten-rupee bit with him.He could not buy a loaf of bread .

using infinitives

Hugo

@Pratik "He had not even a ten-rupee bit with him [and/so/therefore/which is why] he could not buy a loaf of bread."

Pratik

10:12

@Hugo :Using infinitives means "to be"

@Hugo :U know it??

using infinitives

Anyone here

speedyGonzales

10:25

I am not here

Matt Эллен

@Pratik to be doesn't fit into your sentence

Pratik

any infinitives passive or active

Matt Эллен

> He had not even a ten-rupee bit with him to buy a loaf of bread.

Pratik

@matt

thanks

Matt Эллен

no probs

Robusto

11:44

►

@Cerberus: Dutch polar bear creates a panic. I blame it on the laissez-faire Dutch political system.

KitFox

Hola.

Matt Эллен

Buenas Dias

KitFox

How come I never feel like having sexual relations until I get to work?

Matt Эллен

because you're all stressed about getting to work on time, then when you get to work you remember what you want to be doing

KitFox

that might be it.

no kid responsibilities at work.

Matt Эллен

11:55

true

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